
                  OS/2 Hardware Issues             (Fidonet)

                 Saturday, 11-Dec-1999 to Friday, 17-Dec-1999

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From: Steve McCrystal                                   10-Dec-99 06:26:22
  To: Holger Granholm                                   11-Dec-99 13:39:21
Subj: TVFS & USB

;
In a msg of <Wednesday December 08 1999>, Holger Granholm writes to Andy
Roberts:
;
Holger,

 AR>> I will admit that a year ago when I bought that ATX, I didn't
 AR>> know as much as I do now about the undesirable side effects.
 AR>> And while the matched case has only 1 power switch, it does
 AR>> not seem work well with the AW37Pro.  The AW37Pro works fine
 AR>> in the AT machine.

 HG> If it has only one power switch it may mean that the computer
 HG> isn't really totally switched off but in some sort of sleep mode.

If it's a momentary contact switch, it isn't switched off.  If it's a *real*
switch, it should be switched off, but even that isn't a given.

Ain't Intel 'standards' great?  :^)

-[Steve]-

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1/#
 * Origin: -[Steve's Place]- New Berlin, WI (FidoNet 1:154/731.2)
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From: Eddy Thilleman                                    10-Dec-99 10:59:11
  To: Holger Granholm                                   11-Dec-99 21:24:18
Subj: multi changer

Hello Holger,

08 Dec 99 20:43, Holger Granholm wrote to Eddy Thilleman:

HG> OK Eddy, come over here and see for yourself.  I've seen Holland.

See netmail. ;-)

  Greetings   -=Eddy=-        email: eddy.thilleman@net.hcc.nl

... "Garfield, don't you ever move?" "There was that time in 82."
--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
 * Origin: Windows95 is a graphic DOS extender (2:280/5143.7)

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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         09-Dec-99 09:58:23
  To: Ian Moote                                         13-Dec-99 03:32:21
Subj: Clocked!

 JDBP>> If AMD were simply saying that "by convention, the century byte is
 JDBP>> stored here", one would expect it not to be at location 0x7F, but
 JDBP>> at one of the locations (such as 0x32) where the century byte *is*
 JDBP>> conventionally stored.

 IM> Well... I've _heard_ of CMOS' which store their century byte (and
 IM> other  information) at a location other than 32h (or other than
 IM> conventional),  but I've never actually seen one, nor documentation
 IM> on one. At what  other "conventional" locations can the century byte
 IM> be found?

 JDBP> It's also worth noting that there isn't a standard place for the
 JDBP> byte holding the century.

 IM> I disagree. [...] Since I've never seen a CMOS which didn't store 
 IM> it's century byte at 32h, I don't believe it's worth noting at all. 
 IM> It's a dubious fact which seems to have little to do with the 
 IM> discussion other than to introduce FUD. 

There are three distinct locations described in Ralf Brown's interrupt list.

The idea that there is widespread standardisation of the contents of NVRAM is
false.  It was my discovering that this applies even to things that are
considered to be basics, by using my old CMOS.EXE utility from OS2CLU version
1.0 on several different machines with different BIOSes, that was one of the
reasons that I wasn't too disappointed at not being able to create a 32-bit
version of that tool.  (Although, as Tony Pater has already said in this echo, 
a utility to dump and restore the contents of NVRAM, uninterpreted, would
still be useful.)

  JdeBP 

--- FleetStreet 1.22 NR
 * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish <yuk!> (2:257/609.3)
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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         09-Dec-99 10:15:28
  To: Ian Moote                                         13-Dec-99 03:32:21
Subj: Clocked!

 JDBP>> If it doesn't properly increment a century register when the year
 JDBP>> number wraps from 99 to 00, because it doesn't *have* one, that
 JDBP>> doesn't qualify as "good" in my book.

 IM> You're certain free and welcome to write whatever you please in your 
 IM> book, but this simply sounds like the logic of the argumentative.

 IM> I reiterate, the design is such that it was understood that the RTC
 IM> did not have a century byte. 

You make my point for me.  The idea that it was "good until the year 9999" is
quite obviously wrong, based on this fact alone.

 IM> The century byte was provided in CMOS to be set  by the "user". Each 
 IM> byte has a range of 00 to 99 BCD.  Ergo, the RTC/CMOS is good until 
 IM> the the year 9999. 

Wrong.  The idea that the RTC is "good until the year 9999" simply doesn't fit 
with the obvious intention of the designers to have a product with a limited
lifespan of no more than a few years.  The RTC wasn't even good until the year 
1988, when the DST rule for the U.S., which is hard-coded into the chip, was
changed.  Indeed I would have expected any engineer working on the RTC design
at the time to have realised that it had a limited design lifespan from this
alone, given the fact that the longest period in the 20th century that the
U.S. had gone without a DST rule change up until the 1980s had been around 22
years.  Even discounting that particular design flaw, the RTC was still only
good for 100 years from any given base date, since as you yourself have said,
it didn't have a century register.

The idea that a century byte was "provided" in NVRAM is also mistaken.  NVRAM
was provided, for BIOS manufacturers to do with as they liked.  Some choose to 
place a byte containing century information, in an attempt to fix a hardware
problem with the RTC in software whose flaws were obvious, in a certain place. 
 Others chose to place such a byte in a different place.  It is worth noting
that although you have made several insulting remarks about my mentioning
this, calling it pointlessly argumentative and "FUD", you seem to have
overlooked the rather important fact that one of the BIOS manufacturers that
chose *not* to use location 0x32 in NVRAM (the location that you are claiming
to be "the standard") was IBM itself.

  JdeBP 

--- FleetStreet 1.22 NR
 * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish <yuk!> (2:257/609.3)
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From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         09-Dec-99 10:23:12
  To: Ian Moote                                         13-Dec-99 03:32:21
Subj: Clocked!

 IM>>> Too bad that IBM felt that they had to break that.

 JDBP>> IBM *didn't* break it, though. The RTC design was already broken,
 JDBP>> inasmuch as it wasn't suitable for use as the RTC chip in a
 JDBP>> personal computer design that was to last for at least two
 JDBP>> decades. IBM didn't break the RTC design at all. It was an off the 
 JDBP>> shelf part that was already designed that way. IBM *could* have 
 JDBP>> picked another chip, from some other manufacturer, which *did* have 
 JDBP>> a century register.  Indeed IBM, being IBM, could have manufactured 
 JDBP>> such a chip itself if no such chip were available from a third party.

 IM> Non sequitur. 

For it to have been a /non sequitur/, the last sentence would have had to have 
been completely unrelated to the preceding one.  Quite clearly, it is,
however.

 IM> That does not fit the historical facts as we know them.
 IM> I  wasn't into clones at the time and was a little young to even be 
 IM> employed by IBM, but it seems pretty obvious that the design
 IM> philosophy,  for whatever reason, was to use off-the-shelf
 IM> components. It's all well  and good, sitting up here at the end of
 IM> 1999 after seeing the PS/2's,  Blue Lightnings, PS/1's, etc., to cite
 IM> what IBM _could_ have custom  manufactured, but really all that
 IM> matters is what their philosophy was  for PC design _at the time_.
 IM> And at the time we know that the philosophy  was not to redesign
 IM> anything, but to use off-the-shelf components.

That may have been the philosophy of the original IBM PC, but again you are
forgetting that the real-time clock wasn't part of the original IBM PC.  It
was introduced with the IBM PC/XT (more specifically, the IBM PC/XT286
according to several references).  The design philosophy of the PC/XT was not
necessarily exactly the same as that of the original IBM PC.

  JdeBP 

--- FleetStreet 1.22 NR
 * Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish <yuk!> (2:257/609.3)
154/15

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From: Leonard Erickson                                  13-Dec-99 02:57:03
  To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard                         13-Dec-99 21:26:09
Subj: Clocked!

 -=> Quoting Jonathan de Boyne Pollard to Ian Moote <=-

 JdBP> That may have been the philosophy of the original IBM PC, but again
 JdBP> you are forgetting that the real-time clock wasn't part of the
 JdBP> original IBM PC.  It was introduced with the IBM PC/XT (more
 JdBP> specifically, the IBM PC/XT286 according to several references).  The
 JdBP> design philosophy of the PC/XT was not necessarily exactly the same as
 JdBP> that of the original IBM PC. 

Actually, it was introduced with the AT. The XT 286 didn't come until
*years* later (about the same time as the PS/2 line). 
--- FMailX 1.48a
 * Origin: Shadowshack (1:105/51)
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From: Holger Granholm                                   12-Dec-99 13:56:00
  To: Steve McCrystal                                   13-Dec-99 21:26:09
Subj: TVFS & USB

In a message dated 12-10-99, Steve Mccrystal said to Holger Granholm:

Hello Steve,

SM>If it's a momentary contact switch, it isn't switched off.  If it's
SM>a *real* switch, it should be switched off, but even that isn't a
SM>given.

SM>Ain't Intel 'standards' great?  :^)

Yeah, I love them. So many to choose from <BG>

Happy Holidays,

Holger

___
 * MR/2 2.26 * The Christmas spirit is not something you drink.


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

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From: Holger Granholm                                   12-Dec-99 13:56:00
  To: Eddy Thilleman                                    13-Dec-99 21:26:10
Subj: multi changer

In a message dated 12-10-99, Eddy Thilleman said to Holger Granholm:

HG> OK Eddy, come over here and see for yourself.  I've seen Holland.

ET>See netmail. ;-)

Hi Eddy.

Haven't seen any netmail from you!

Seasons Greetings,

Holger
___
 * MR/2 2.26 * Fortunately, I have a backup dated 01-01-80.


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

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From: SINISA PAVLOVIC                                   13-Dec-99 19:03:00
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 21:26:10
Subj: Re: TVFS & USB

From: sinip@hamhq.yfnet.org.yu (SINISA PAVLOVIC)
Reply-To: sinip@hamhq.yfnet.org.yu (SINISA PAVLOVIC)
Organization: HAM HQ BBS, Doboj, RS, 074/24-360

 -=> Quoting Holger Granholm to All <=-

 
 AR>I had several reasons for selecting the ASUS P2BL and ATX.  ASUS is
 AR>near top-of-the-line and claims support for OS/2.  And it has the
 AR>Adaptec SCSI controller built-in.

 HG> I see. I've got so many SCSI controllers laying around that I don't
 HG> know what to do with'em all. Since my first computer I have only used

Ship one here, please?  (Hint:  I can give you an address in Finland
for that). :-))

Posjetite: http://www.targetshop.com/users/level1.asp?refId=349351

Pozdrav iz Doboja, RS.                        e-mail: 4n4da@qsl.net


... Hmmm...  What's this red button foI'+:.'   NO CARRIER
___ Blue Wave/OS2 v2.30


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