
                   comp.os.os2.misc                 (Usenet)

                 Saturday, 11-Dec-1999 to Friday, 17-Dec-1999

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: williamd1@attglobal.net                           11-Dec-99 04:39:09
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: williamd1@attglobal.net (williamd)

This sounds *great*; thanks for posting the info! Here's hoping they
choose an appropriate domain name- like os2online or something!!

Bill

__
williamd1@attglobal.net

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 04:43:21
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> said:

> > If you think that does you no harm, I'd love to do business with you!
> 
> I wonder what Lars, assuming he is single, would think if he needed a 
> drug to control his male pattern baldness problem.

I don't "need" such a drug for one thing.  And if I _did_ need it, no
company should be forced to sell it to me.

>                                               When he went to get the
> product he found that the company making it had signed a per bottle
> license with a much bigger company which required that the maker of the
> baldness cure package it with a PMS remedy which was not suitable for men
> and which raised the price of his male pattern baldness drug by $50 or so.
> 
> I bet he would agree that he was harmed.

Then I wouldn't buy it!  If it was so much more money, why would I bother
getting it?

But if I did really really really want it badly, I'd have to pay the price.

It's a good thing you weren't in attendance at the Wrestlemania party I
attended at Chris' place earlier this year.  You would have tried to phone
the police when I sold pieces of pizza, claiming I harmed you!

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mgreene@exis.net                                  11-Dec-99 00:05:19
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: "Michael K Greene" <mgreene@exis.net>

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:32:00 -0800, Tim Martin wrote:

>Here's some hot news for all you NON-Warp City Members:

Tim,

Any other company would get a "great!!!", but let's look at who you are
talking about - Innoval???? 

>Tim Martin
>The OS/2 Guy
>Warp City (http://warpcity.com)
>"Y2K Special Discount Memberships Close 12/15!)
>

Michael K Greene <mgreene@exis.net>     |      OS/2 Warp / Linux / Win95-311



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 05:02:05
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw josco write:
> On 10 Dec 1999, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> > As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Joseph write:
> > > Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> > 
> > > Sunny Boy didn't manipulate prices.  You lied.   Price manipulation
> > > is only possible with monopoly power
> > 
> > This is your claim.  I am debunking it.  Stand back.
> 
> It was your claim and your attempt to redefine price manipulation to mean
> any change in price including those that the competitive market induces. 

You don't know anything about the competitive market, so I find it hard to
get upset over your accusations of "including" prices set by the market.

> By definition price manipulation is understood with respect to price
> changes made in a competitive market.

Well, since Microsoft operates in a competitive market, MS is changing
prices in a competitive market and by your (new) definition Microsoft is not
engaging in price manipulation.

> > Then Microsoft cannot manipulate prices EITHER.  Microsoft's only power is
> > in the price it charges for its software...a price which can be less than
> > or equal to but never greater than the price consumers are willing to pay.
> 
> A monopoly can, by definition, change increase prices and consumers still
> pay for the product.

Then Dodge is a monopoly I suppose.  It increased the price of its Dodge
RAM in late 1993.  Sales increased.

Your definition of a monopoly, by the way, consistently changes from the
only true logical meaning: a company with no competition in which any
competition is impossible.


>                         The fact a person buys the product from an OEM or MS
> does not invalidate the existance of monopoly power abuse.  If it did then
> monopoly power would be a contradiction. 

Monopoly power is a farce, not a contradiction.

> and nonexistant. It would only apply to products NO ONE buys.  (And
> screaming about the word FORCE simple shows a weak understanding of the
> topic.)  

Microsoft keeps getting blamed with 'forcing' people to buy their product,
as some sort of proof of monopoly existence.

> Price manipulation and monopoly power are well understood words with
> consistent definitions.  

That's why you've switched them twice already now?

> > You're speaking on an inflationary force, which forces a company to keep
the
> > product's dollar figure increasing alongside.  The margin, however, can be
> > greatly reduced, as a company lowers the price (in a real sense) to
attract
> > customers.
> 
> The cost of living has increased so your assertion that prices go down is
> on the average FALSE.

If inflation were to jump 10% in a single year, if a product went up in
price 2% that same year, clearly the product is being reduced in the real
cost to people.

>                          You also have no examples of 50% price cuts

Barry found one for you.  I can find even bigger ones.

>                                                                       and
> cannot tell us all that the profit margins of cereal are tied to volume
> with a small company taking on a larger company

Sunny Boy cereal survives.  Sea-Csar (or whatever the hell B.C.'s
fish-vegetable drink is called) survives.  Small companies undercut big ones
all the time.  And they can, because none of these big companies from
General Mills to Microsoft to Ford is a monopoly, devoid of competition.

> > > But you were telling me about cutting prices by 50% !!!
> > 
> > Or 30%.  Or 20%.  Or 10%.  Or 5%.  Or 1%.  Cutting prices is cutting
prices.
> 
> No.  50% price cuts do not happen in cereal

T's funny.  Safeway brand cheerios are just over half the cost of the brand
name version.

> -- a company doing 50% price cuts is committing sucide

No it isn't.  It's reducing costs, helping the consumer.

> Replace 50% with 1% and your example is invalid since the discount is
> tricial and of no consequence 

Ungrateful puke.

> > Not until some new upstart little guy barged in with a new and cheaper way
> > of doing things, that forced all the old dogs in the pound to sit up and
> > take notice that somebody knew how to kick their ass.
> 
> Kick ass?  Yes, in a fantasy land where there is some fantistic way where
> a SMALL company discounts cereal by 50% to take the market share of a
> larger company.

Sometimes they don't take the market share.  People still regularly buy the
official Rice Krispies, even with the imitation stuff there.

>                  They achieve this cost savings due to increased VOLUME

There are many ways to reduce costs, Mr. Narrow-minded-businessman

> but this is a small company and they cannot match the volume of a large
> company. Fantasy land.  Hey -- we just learned about BARRIERS to
> competition.

Barriers to competition:

- Government.

- oh...wait...just Government.

> > So its "manipulation" if we the consumer are getting too good of a deal? 
> 
> Predatory pricing is illegal

And, as you just spend paragraphs explaining, is impossible.

> MS was shown to have spend hundreds of millions and forgo revenue by
> DUMPING IE for free

Benefitting consumers.

>                         and then tying IE to the OS so they could own the
> browser market that would protect their 94% market share of the PC OS
> market.

So nobody, ever, in all of time, has ever switched browsers?  Excuse me, I
have to unwrap that baseball bat.

--
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: JSeder-nospam@syntel.com                          10-Dec-99 19:14:00
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: Lotus SmartSuite v1.5 released

From: Jonathan Seder <JSeder-nospam@syntel.com>

Philip Wright wrote:
> Indelible Blue lists it at $209.00 and Tech Data (wholesale) has it
> at $194.00. I guess the strategy is to make it financially difficult
> for us to stay with OS/2. What a shame.

Frankly, it seems to me that this is an act of charity by Lotus, or
maybe even a reality check to see if they should assign *any* resources
to OS/2 after 1999.  

Cough up the money if you want Lotus to stay interested.  Pay for all
the upgrades and subscribe to Software Choice - or you have no basis for
bemoaning a lack of OS/2 software.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: goober@snit.com                                   11-Dec-99 03:30:13
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: goober@snit.com (Mr. Ho Ke Dokie)

Rock and roll.  I'm getting hooked up next week to ADSL.  Got a 3Com Etherlink
card 3C905B-TX card and I want to know if it will be a big deal to get OS/2 to
reconize the internet connection through this card.

Is there a lot of software and settings you have to set up?  Please don't make
me use windoze for ADSL.  




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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rgehrig@primenet.com                              10-Dec-99 21:14:08
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: "Robert Gehrig" <rgehrig@primenet.com>

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 03:30:26 GMT, Mr. Ho Ke Dokie wrote:

>Rock and roll.  I'm getting hooked up next week to ADSL.  Got a 3Com
Etherlink
>card 3C905B-TX card and I want to know if it will be a big deal to get OS/2
to
>reconize the internet connection through this card.
>
>Is there a lot of software and settings you have to set up?  Please don't
make
>me use windoze for ADSL.  
>
>
>
>
What is the unit to connect to the phone line.

If it is a Cisco 675 I have just finished setting one of these up to connect
our LAN at work to the internet.

What is your setup, as the configuration varies depending on what you are
going to connect to the internet.



Robert Gehrig
rgehrig@primenet.com

Brought to you by the letters O and S and the number 2



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sma.spam-not@rtd.com                              11-Dec-99 05:33:02
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: Networking a HP LaserJet4...

From: James Moe <sma.spam-not@rtd.com>


"Dave {Reply Address in.sig}" wrote:
> 
> >>
> >  As I recall, HP is discontinuing ALL versions of JetAdmin, not just
> >os/2. The replacement is WebJetAdmin.
> >
> Which is not supported in an OS/2-only version as far as I can tell,
> you need the NT server stuff.
> 
  I have WebJetAdmon running on my computer at work which is os/2.

-- 

sma at rtd dot com
Remove ".spam-not" for email

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From:  JeanMichel.Dossogne@advalvas.be                  10-Dec-99 12:00:15
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: taskbar for connect

From: "Jean-Michel Dossogne" < JeanMichel.Dossogne@advalvas.be>

Hello Andrew.

Jeudi 02 Décembre 1999 15:04, andrew g wrote to All:

 >> for my Warp 3 Connect machine, I search for a way to get a taskbar like
 >> the one from my warp 4 machine. Any tip? thanks!
 ag> If you can find "Lotus Value Pack for OS/2" which is Part No. R06980,
 ag> it contains the exact thing you want.
 ag> Or, Object Desktop (www.stardock.com)
well, I'm looking for a light shareware product. OD is a big and expensive
stuff. can't afford.
thanks for the tips anyway, will look the second hand software market around
here, they regularly sell for a few bucks expensive os/2 software, as there's
no-one reseller that knows what it is...

anyone another idea, please?

Jean-Michel
+++++++++++++++++
+ Doggy's Internet Gateway - +32-71-666292 - V34+ & X75
+ Disclaimer: Les articles n'engagent QUE leurs auteurs, pas la passerelle

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca                           11-Dec-99 05:46:00
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: IDE ZIP drive was (No subject)

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 02:28:09, rgibson@ix.netcom.com (Ron Gibson) 
wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 01:00:54, lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley) 
> wrote:
>  
> > > How about configuring it? What swiches are required on IBM's IDE driver.
>  
> > The IDE ZIP drive requires that you have the latest update
> > for the IDE device drivers installed and that you are using
> > Fixpack 6 for Warp 4 or later to obtain the removable device
> > support.
> 
> Hmmm...I'm using W3 FP 40 and the DANIS IDE driver. Any problems there?

I should have mentioned that for Warp 3 FP 35 or greater
is required. You should be OK with 40. DANIS506.ADD
works fine AFAIK.

> 
> > Device drivers have been moved to their own fixpack
> > series so if you install FP 12 you should also install
> > the DD01 fixpack.
> > 
> > You can obtain these through RSU updates or through
> > the FTP site ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/
> > 
> > With the IDE ZIP you just connect it to the IDE cable
> > (checking for Slave or Master of course) and if you
> > have the device support installed it comes up automatically.
> > 
> > The base device driver that is required (besides IBM1S506.add)
> > is IBMATAPI.FLT
>  
> > Partition the cartridge and format for FAT or HPFS.
> 
> So then is it seen as a HDD, IOW appears in FDISK?

FDISK finds it and treats it as a hard drive. That's why
you can partition it. IIRC when you first use a cartridge
irt will appear to have some kind of partition. Use
FDISK to delete what's there and then allocate the
partition. You can have more than one partition on
the cartridge if you want. There is some obscure
command line parameters for the driver that allow 
you to reserve drive letters for multi-partition cartridges
but I can't remember what they are....

--

Lorne Sunley

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           11-Dec-99 02:04:08
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:26
Subj: Re: Lotus SmartSuite v1.5 released

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3851592B.B748D3ED@attglobal.net>, on 12/10/99 at 02:48 PM,
   Philip Wright <pvwrght@attglobal.net> said:

> Indelible Blue lists it at $209.00 and Tech Data (wholesale) has it at
> $194.00. I guess the strategy is to make it financially difficult for us
> to stay with OS/2. What a shame.

If memory serves and according to the database it does, I paid $249 for
WordPerfect 4.2. That was more than 10 years ago which is equivalent in
purchasing power to about $390 today. I paid between $75 and $100 each for
several upgrades to 5.1 level for DOS and $250 for 5.0 for OS/2.

$209 for a much more complete suite in 1999 dollars is a bargain I will be
glad to pay.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              11-Dec-99 05:27:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> wrote:

> Demonstrate to me that a rational mind CREATES choices!

I'm not going to waste my time at the impossible task of trying to
reason with somebody who professes at the outset that his mind is
invalid and that reality does not exist.  Somebody like yourself
whose only rational conviction is the choice to evade reality can
not be convinced.

Chris J Delanoy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 05:32:15
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 10 Dec 1999 17:57:30 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> =>By you're nonsensical definition of harm, you are harmed by the makers of
> =>LearJets for the high price.  You want something, but the company isn't
just
> =>letting you have it.
> 
> I just love the way you misread my posts.

And I love the way that they're inconsistant in everything except their high
degree of nonsense.

> IF I wanted to buy a Learjet, and IF Learjet said I could buy it only with a
> helicopter that I didn't want, yes, they would be harming me.

Harming _you_ by only selling you the product you wanted under a condition
you didn't want.  If you are so upset by it, then don't get it.  If you want
the Learjet that bad, I guess you have to pay the price they want.  Its
their right to set the price they are willing to sell for.  Price happens to
be on a block of property that is "all or nothing" then you'll either buy
all or nothing.  Capice?

>                                                                   To make
the
> purchase of item A (which I want/need, and am willing to pay for)
conditional
> on also purchasing item B (which I don't want) is a harm to me because it
> means that to get item A I have to waste some money, or esle do without item
> A.

It's your call, take it or leave it.  This lame-assed sniveling definition
of harm doesn't justify forcing a company to sell you something under
conditions they don't wish.

>        I think you would agree that wasting money is harmful to me, and that
> going without something I want or need is also harmful.

Going without something you want isn't harmful at all.  Going without
something you need is harmful, but its not up to the company to fulfill your
needs.  Its up to you.  Does their 'need' not to be harmed by bankrupcy give
them the right to sell you a product if you don't want to buy it?  No, and
the same right shouldn't apply to YOU either.

> By the way, selling stuff is not a >>use<< of property.

The price P I choose to sell item I to buyer B is my choice.  My right to
property includes what I get, what I do with it, and how I dispose of it.

>                                                        You call it that
> becasue you must find some argument to support your silly notion that a
> seller can do me no harm by setting conditons on the sale.

Unless one of the conditions is a savage beating if you don't buy it, you
have no conditions of sale that can be construed as harmful.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu                     11-Dec-99 06:22:04
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:27
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu

In article <3851A98F.459420AF@WarpCity.com>,
  OS2Guy@WarpCity.com wrote:

> Here's some hot news for all you NON-Warp City Members:

Look, don't bother doing us any "favors"...

--
-Steven Hunter                *OS/2 Warp 4 * |But on the other hand...|
hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu *AMD K6-2 400* |There's 5 more fingers. |


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           11-Dec-99 01:50:16
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82rmeh$dop$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, on 12/10/99 at 08:05 PM,
   Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> said:

> All of your arguments are based on the premise that human beings are
> irrational automotons incapable of thinking.  Although you don't even
> know it, your arguments represent a full assault on the validity of the
> human mind (and thus on humanity itself) -
> and that is why, in addition to being laughably wrong, your arguments
> are also morally reprehensible.

You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings here. I
deliberately left out human in that sentence because I have doubts that
you are one. And as for moral reprehensiblity, the only one exhibiting
such is you, Britton, Larso, et al. You all apparently suffer from severe
attachment disorder.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           11-Dec-99 01:58:04
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 03:29:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82rj3t$dm8$1@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/10/99 at 07:08 PM,
   larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:


> How can you claim to send a "snail mail" to my University, when you
> don't know where it is?  When you get your mail back Return to Sender,
> don't blame me.

I seriously doubt that mail addressed 

Roderick Fraser, President
President's Office  Univ Hall 3-1
University of Alberta
114 Street - 89 Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta  T6G 2M7
Canada

will be returned as undeliverable.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: andrew@netneurotic.de                             11-Dec-99 09:45:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 05:07:10
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm)

Michael K Greene <mgreene@exis.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:32:00 -0800, Tim Martin wrote:
> 
> >Here's some hot news for all you NON-Warp City Members:
> 
> Tim,
> 
> Any other company would get a "great!!!", but let's look at who you are
> talking about - Innoval???? 

Why? What's wrong with Innoval?

-- 
Fan of Woody Allen
User of MacOS, BeOS, LinuxPPC
Supporter of Pepperoni Pizza

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From: jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net                            11-Dec-99 08:00:12
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 05:07:10
Subj: Re: Y2K Woes

From: jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net

In <SKfw30zmCGmZ-pn2-GR3ew7s9oLH3@localhost>, doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net
(Doug Bissett) writes:
>On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:52:56, jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net wrote:
>
>> After applying Peer Fp IP08412 to bring my Warp 4 Peer up to date
>> I discovered that it no longer made connections automatically on
>> startup.  When I tried to back out of the FP, I sarted getting traps
>> on boot when the WPS was loading, so I had to put it back in.
>> 
>> Fortunately, with some further effort, I discovered that I could use
>> the NET USE command in my start up file to initiate the connections,
>> and it works fine now--but it took a few hours to discover the problem,
>> and figure it all out.
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Fred Springfield                       for e-mail remove 'xxx'
>> Plymouth, MN
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>
>I think that started at the IP8407 fix level. You have discovered the 
>EASY fix for the problem. Someone, some time ago, indicated that there
>was some server setting that would fix the problem, but the Peer 
>networking does not have such a setting (at least I never found it if 
>it does exist). I just use the NET USE command to connect, and that 
>works just fine.
>
>Hope this helps...
>******************************
>From the PC of Doug Bissett
>doug.bissett at attglobal.net
>The " at " must be changed to "@"
>******************************

I looked everywhere for the connections listings, including the ini
file, but could not find them, nor could I find where they should
have been automatically initiated.  They must be hidden somewhere,
but who knows where.

It's kind of late in the y2k game for this kind of stuff to be floating
around.  These files have July date codes on them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Fred Springfield                       for e-mail remove 'xxx'
Plymouth, MN
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: snowman@xds.ru                                    11-Dec-99 08:32:15
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 05:07:10
Subj: ANNOUNCE: Native XDS-x86 2.40 for OS/2 Pre-Release

From: snowman@xds.ru (Dmitry Leskov)

11 Dec 1999 - Pre-release packages of Native XDS-x86 2.40 for OS/2
and the respective TopSpeed Compatibility Pak are available for
download as:

ftp://ftp.xds.ru/pub/xds/xds-x86-env-240-pr1-os2.zip
ftp://ftp.xds.ru/pub/xds/tscp-x86-240-pr1-os2.zip

XDS is a family name for professional systems featuring Modula-2 and
Oberon-2 programming languages. Native XDS-x86 is a highly optimizing
32-bit Modula-2/Oberon-2 compiler for Intel x86, available for Windows
NT/95/98, OS/2, and Linux.

----------------------------------------------------------
Dmitry V. Leskov     Phone     : +7 3832 39 78 24 (ext. 14)
Product Manager      E-mail    : snowman@xds.ru

JSC XDS
P.O. Box 415         Phone/fax : +7 3832 39 78 24
Novosibirsk          E-mail    : info@xds.ru
630090 Russia        Web       : http://www.xds.ru/

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From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    11-Dec-99 09:17:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm) 
wrote:

> Why? What's wrong with Innoval?

This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their 
newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients. 
Leaving loyal users out in the cold.

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 09:57:14
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> > How can you claim to send a "snail mail" to my University, when you
> > don't know where it is?  When you get your mail back Return to Sender,
> > don't blame me.
> 
> I seriously doubt that mail addressed 
> 
> Roderick Fraser, President
> President's Office  Univ Hall 3-1
> University of Alberta
> 114 Street - 89 Avenue
> Edmonton, Alberta  T6G 2M7
> Canada
> 
> will be returned as undeliverable.

No, but the line reading "that Lars guy who works for you in Calgary" will
be the source of many hours of hilarity.


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: l_luciano@da.mob                                  11-Dec-99 10:02:25
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: l_luciano@da.mob (Stan Goodman)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:17:20, rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm) 
> wrote:
> 
> > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?
> 
> This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their 
> newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients. 
> Leaving loyal users out in the cold.

.., thus proving conclusively that Innoval was in business to pay the 
grocery bills, rather than to promote OS/2. For the record, I use OS/2 
exclusively, but you really can't demand that a company put its resources 
into projects that don't pay back.

Happily, Innoval's Java-based mail client, "J Street Mailer", is now being 
developed and supported by users, and is now called "Polarbar". It is, as a
consequence, much improved over its condition when it was still an Innoval 
product, although it is still in its Beta phase. Things, you see, do 
sometimes work out for the best.

-------------
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

E-mail sent to l_luciano@da.mob will, of course, not reach me. Sorry.
Send E-mail to: domain: hashkedim dot com, username: stan.


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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:07:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> > The prefatory remark is totally incorrect.  If the choice you are making
> > is a choice that nobody has provided for, no exercised force came along. 
> > Your options could easily have been limited by...say...your limits.
> 
> Let us suppose for a minute there were no anti-trust laws and Michelin
> became the tire manufacturer who produced 95% of the world's tires.

Michelin tires must really kick ass, huh?

> Michelin then went to GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, and
> Mercedes and said to them you must install our tires on every car you sell
> for $30 per tire. If you do not agree, then we will charge you $90 per
> tire.

Sure.  Any business is morally justified in doing this.

> Now no automobile manufacturer who wanted to stay competitive could do
> anything else but sign the agreement since $300 extra would make their
> vehicles much less competitive.

If they wanted to carry Michelin tires.  Maybe they decide to use
Goodyear instead.

> And let us further suppose that Michelin went to the major aftermarket
> retailers of accessories

So Canadian Tire and NAPA, but not, say, The Warehouse?  Okay, sure.  I'm
still mad at those NAPA bastards for not cutting my mail key last year.

>                           for your vehicle and said to them we will give
> you a discount on our accessories such as our custom inflation valves,
> blow out guards, sidewall cleaner, etc. if you only carry ours and not
> those of our competitors.

So I'm saving money on my Michelin-equipped car and saving money on my
tire accessories all at the same time.  Oooh, hurt me.

> Now also let us suppose that you wanted to buy a Jeep for a trek through
> the Sahara Desert and needed specialized low pressure tires which Michelin
> did not make. You would have two choices, pay $300 for tires for which you
> had no possible use or buy a Range Rover for about $5,000 more than the
> comparable Jeep since Range Rover didn't have such an agreement.

$60x4=$5,000?  Your math is about as good as your economics and your ideology.

>                                                                  Moreover,
> when you needed to install blow-out guards, you had to pay 3 times what
> Michelin guards cost.

If non-Michelin guards are that much more, no wonder 95% of consumers choose
Michelin tires.

> If I am willing to pay several hundred dollars more for a Compaq server
> than a workstation which is all I really need, I can get a Compaq with a
> different operating system. I can buy SmartSuite to run on it but I will
> pay considerably more than the $95 Compaq charges for Office in their
> software bundle. Or I can buy a Compaq workstation and throw out the
> windows and pay $300 for SmartSuite.

Yeah.  Big hairy deal.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:26:11
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw letoured@nospam.net write:
> larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> >The alternate definition of force, the one you subscribe to, describes a
> >voluntary exchange!  How on earth can you say with a straight face that
> >when voluntarily signing a contract that it is force, but a definition of
> >force excluding voluntary actions are incorrect?
> 
> If the alternative to signing is to go out of business then there is
> force.

Uh...no.  If a company is unable to sell its products and make a profit,
then the business is responsible for its own demise.  No ghouls or goblins
are responsible...it falls directly onto the hands of the businessman.

> >MS "has done" nothing wrong.  That they are illegal speaks to the flaw in
> >the law, not in the action.
> 
> If this is correct, then you should be capable of identifying and
> explaining how the findings of fact are wrong

#1. Microsoft is not a monopoly
#2. Microsoft's "monopoly powers" are normal business practises that are
    unable to allow it to coerce its customers
#3. Microsoft never harmed consumers
#4. Microsoft isn't a threat to customers just because it "could" increase
    its prices
#5. Blocking Microsoft's ability to compete will not foster greater industry
    competition

> would be unconstitutional.  -- And if so, then according to you we have
> the richest man in the world being railroaded into agreeing with an
> illegal law instead of defending himself. 

He's committed the most unpardonable of sins.  He believes he's guilty for
making his shareholders rich, for making his company successful, for signing
contracts, for selling products.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: trosnau@telusplanet.net                           11-Dec-99 09:27:20
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: taskbar for connect

From: Tim Rosnau <trosnau@telusplanet.net>

When I was using Warp 3, I used to use a program called Taskbar
(IIRC). It was done by the same people who put out the FM/2 file
manager program -Barebones software. You should be able to find it
on Hobbes.

Jean-Michel Dossogne wrote:
> 
> Hello Andrew.
> 
> Jeudi 02 D‚cembre 1999 15:04, andrew g wrote to All:
> 
>  >> for my Warp 3 Connect machine, I search for a way to get a taskbar like
>  >> the one from my warp 4 machine. Any tip? thanks!
>  ag> If you can find "Lotus Value Pack for OS/2" which is Part No. R06980,
>  ag> it contains the exact thing you want.
>  ag> Or, Object Desktop (www.stardock.com)
> well, I'm looking for a light shareware product. OD is a big and expensive
> stuff. can't afford.
> thanks for the tips anyway, will look the second hand software market around
> here, they regularly sell for a few bucks expensive os/2 software, as
there's
> no-one reseller that knows what it is...
> 
> anyone another idea, please?
> 
> Jean-Michel
> +++++++++++++++++
> + Doggy's Internet Gateway - +32-71-666292 - V34+ & X75
> + Disclaimer: Les articles n'engagent QUE leurs auteurs, pas la passerelle

-- 
             *
             ^
            ^ ^       Have a cool Yule!
           ^ ^ ^
          ^ ^ ^ ^
         ^ ^ ^ ^ ^      Tim Rosnau
             |           Edmonton Alberta Canada

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:20:03
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
> > Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> said:
> 
> > >The US anti-trust laws are deliberately designed as so to be impossible
> > >to be objectively understood.  They are ex-post-facto, arbitrary, and
> > >entirely open-ended, and any "findings of fact" made under them do not
> > >necessarily bear any resemblance to reality (ie - to actual FACTS).
> 
> The anti-trust laws in the United States date from the 19th Century. In
> fact, the Sherman act predated the founding of MicroSoft by more than 75
> years. Moreover, ex post facto prohibitions in our Constitution refer only
> to criminal law, not civil law.
> 
> Arbitrary? That issue was addressed by the United States Supreme Court 60
> years before Billy Boy was born in the Standard Oil cases of the first
> decade of the current century.
> 
> Open-ended? I have no concept of what the little mental midget has in
> mind.

That any business practise can be evidence of a monopoly.  No matter what a
company does, its being monopolistic.

> Findings of fact bear no resemblance to reality? Only a truly ignorant
> asshole or a lawyer for the defendant deliberately milking his client for
> more fees could argue that Judge Jackson had no basis in reality for his
> findings of fact.

Claim #1: Microsoft is a monopoly.

Microsoft has gained dominance in the software industry, but dominance is
not a monopoly.  Dominance must be acheived through much struggle of
providing better and better products and/or lower and lower costs.

Dominance can only be maintained by continually offering better products
and/or better deals.  But MS's innovation to maintain its dominance is
described by Jackson as a conspiracy to "stifle" competitors.  (Well no
fucking kidding.  Everything every company ever does is designed to "stifle"
competitors.)

There are many more claims waiting to be debunked.

> It is time that the lemmings learn what they are talking about. The PC
> marketplace is not the entire industry. It is a small but significant
> fraction of the computer marketplace. But just as machine accounting was a
> small but significant part of the accounting marketplace in 1952, one
> company which dominates a signficant segment must be reined in. 

"Must" be reigned in why?  How?  For whose benefit?

> The lemmings need to learn one fact of capitalist economics as well. They
> need to learn that profits breed competition and excessive profits breed
> ruinous competition.

Excessive profits breed opportunity which breeds competition.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:29:12
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Glen D write:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:06:53, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

> > If you have a problem with how a company does business, don't support
them.
> > If you can't find a company you want to support, then you just don't
support
> > any.  They don't have to change to suit your needs.  If the consumer base
> > you represent isn't worth the company's time, and happens to be not worth
> > any company's time, that's just the way of things.

> It's very easy to say that when you're not on "the recieving end" of 
> Microsoft's busines tactics.

It's easy when you are, too.  Because its just as true.

>                                   For Win users I imagine Microsoft's 
> popularity is a wonderful thing

It's an irrelevent thing.  Microsoft software fulfills their needs.

> got it.  Is the state of the world so bad that when an individual say 
> "I don't want to be with the crowd" the rest of the world says "Well 
> f*ck off then"?

Do you want the rest of the world to arrange it to make it easy for you to
go off on your own tangent?


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:34:13
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Comsumer choice 

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw David LaRue write:
>   I think the general consensus is that
> 
> - Microsoft engaged suppliers in an illegal monopoly for providing "PC"
Systems

The actions were illegal.  To call it a monopoly is to be jovial without
intent.

> The competitors for high end or other custom configurations have been driven
> out of the market.  We must "do it ourselves" by knowing what to buy, from
> whom, and at generally inflated prices.

Assembling your own system is CHEAPER than just buying a computer.  That's
what I'm planning on doing in a few months.  "Build" a system that's as
powerful as I can afford, and get a tech student to assemble it.  Pick up an
old copy of Windows 95 somewhere, and go play.

>   Computers differ from, say automobiles, in that their regulations are far
> fewer.

And we wonder why computers are so cheap and innovative.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:35:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Davies write:
> Lars:
> 
> Yes you can buy a computer without a DOS or Windows - NOW!. A short time
> ago you could not.

You always could.  Who could stop you?

>                           Microsoft required contracts that brought them $
> Billion$ from people who did not want or need their product - because of
> restrictive contracts with M$.

But that only carries as for as the people selling computers.  Or are you
saying that every PC system that came to be was under the MS contract?  No
guys in basements?  No kids in the living room?  Ha.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 10:39:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw letoured@nospam.net write:
> larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> >You often complain about people not viserally hating Microsoft as bad as
> >you do?
> 
> No. It about the continuing inability and/or refusal of you and few others
> here to see reality and to use Humpty Dumpty definitions for the words you
> choose to use. 

Monopolies requiring a lack of competition?
Coercion requiring the use of force to restrain?

These are "Humpty Dumpty definitions"?


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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From: scalisi@tin.it                                    11-Dec-99 11:59:07
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: BootOS2 "disk full" problem

From: scalisi@tin.it

I use the following procedure:

1- format two diskette using a dos program that format 82 tracks. 2- lxlite
the complete (C:\*.*) OS/2 boot partition.
3- start bootos2

If anyone is interested, I can put here the dir list of the two diskettes I
use for transfer files (using LPTOOL) between A WIN98 fat32 partition and the
WARP.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antonio(Nino) Scalisi           scalisi@tin.it
at 11:59(+0100, relative to GMT) on Saturday, 11 Dec 1999
Using MR/2 ICE v2.01  Reg: #20729.
Under ---> OS/2 WARP 4 rev.9.036 (fixpack 12)
Java ver.  1.1.8  build 19991026
ObjREXX 6.00   TCPIP 4.2 - MPTN 6.2007 (TCPIP 4.1 + W08620)
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 11:09:12
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Comsumer choice 

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 3 Dec 1999 18:38:58 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> A related issue: the efforts by the producers of genetically modfied
> foodstuffs to avoid having to tell me, the consumer, that I am buying their
> stuff. The issue once again is consumer choice. Anything done that in any
way
> limits or constrains it is evil. (Whether these foodstuffs are safe or not
is
> irrelevant -- I have the right to decide what I buy, and for that I need
> information. To withhold that information is evil.)

On your related issue, to sell you something claiming a condition that is
not true is fraudulent.  That's a lot different then a company only selling
non-genetically modified foodstuffs.  (By your claim, organic food companies
are "limiting my choices" by not giving me the beautiful DDT-enhanced apples
I want and deserve).

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 11:07:05
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 10:16:29
Subj: Re: Comsumer choice 

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 3 Dec 1999 18:38:58 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> =>How is it that you could not buy a computer without Win95?  What was to
> =>prevent somebody from selling one?  Please, feel free to provide any
> =>possible mechanism.
> 
> I don't have to supply a mechanism, I merely have to report what was not
> possible for me to do. I could not get any of the computer stores who
> advertised computers for sale to give me a rebate for wiping Windows and
> selling me a blank machine. So I gave up and built my own.

So in other words, you bought a computer from another source.

> =>Guess what?  As "a consumer" Microsoft does not owe you the ability to buy
> =>non-Microsoft stuff.
> 
> So by your reasoning, it has the right to rig the market to limit my access
> to non-MS stuff.

Providing it does so by voluntary means, such as signing contracts with
others and/or refusing to sign contracts with others.

>                    By your reasoning, I would have the right to prevent you
> from buying something you wanted, merely because I wanted to sell you my
> stuff instead. How would I enforce this right?

This "right" (rather, this goal) would be enforced by you gaining a measure
of control over what I wanted.  Unfortunately, it's a big universe and
you're not, so if I want, say, cheese, you're out of luck.

If I want mint condition fully restored 1953 Bel Aire's, then maybe you've
got a shot.  All you have to do is own all of them.  Then refuse to sell it
to me.

> =>Other companies are free to compete.  Microsoft cannot stop them from
> =>doing so.
> 
> If MS sold to me directly, your argument would be relevant.  However MS does
> not sell to me directly. Instead, they tie up OEMs and resellers in
> agreements

Yes, but they cannot tie up all of them anymore than you can tie up every
single source of cheese.

>           NOT to supply those other companies' products, thereby limiting my
> access to them

The reseller is limiting your access to them, in the sense that you can not
get them at their store.  It's their store, Wolf.  Not yours.  You cannot
force them to sell you something if they are unwilling to sell it.

>                or adding to my costs to access them (eg, travel to another
> city, time/effort to search for and contact other sellers, etc). That's
> simply wrong.

No, it's not.

> MS clearly did not want to compete on a level playing field

It competes on a level playing field every day.  It just happens to have the
best team.

>                                                               that is on the
> quality of its product

Without the product quality, Microsoft would not find any stores willing to
sign their exclusive agreements.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          11-Dec-99 14:39:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: taskbar for connect

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:27:40, Tim Rosnau <trosnau@telusplanet.net> 
wrote:

> When I was using Warp 3, I used to use a program called Taskbar
> (IIRC). It was done by the same people who put out the FM/2 file
> manager program -Barebones software. You should be able to find it
> on Hobbes.
> 
> Jean-Michel Dossogne wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Andrew.
> > 
> > Jeudi 02 DÚcembre 1999 15:04, andrew g wrote to All:
> > 
> >  >> for my Warp 3 Connect machine, I search for a way to get a taskbar
like
> >  >> the one from my warp 4 machine. Any tip? thanks!
> >  ag> If you can find "Lotus Value Pack for OS/2" which is Part No. R06980,
> >  ag> it contains the exact thing you want.
> >  ag> Or, Object Desktop (www.stardock.com)
> > well, I'm looking for a light shareware product. OD is a big and expensive
> > stuff. can't afford.
> > thanks for the tips anyway, will look the second hand software market
around
> > here, they regularly sell for a few bucks expensive os/2 software, as
there's
> > no-one reseller that knows what it is...
> > 
> > anyone another idea, please?

I haven't used TaskBar, but have used (bought, actually) a utility 
called FileBar, which is extremely customizable but has a very light 
memory footprint. You can download or buy it from BMTMicro at:

	http://www.bmtmicro.com/catalog/filebar.html

However, you might experiment with using your Warp 4 code under Warp 
3. I've had it running there.

You need these files in \OS2\DLL:
-------------------
x:\OS2\DLL\
  dock0.cfg                                                66  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock1.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock10.cfg                                               46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock11.cfg                                               46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock12.cfg                                               46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock13.cfg                                               46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock14.cfg                                               46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock15.cfg                                               46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock2.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock3.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock4.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock5.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock6.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock7.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock8.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  dock9.cfg                                                46  
12/11/1999  01:57
  SCENTER.CFG                                             753  
12/11/1999  01:57
  SCENTER.DLL                                         293,421  
03/25/1999  20:52
----------------------

Don't worry about filesize differences.

Then you'll need a way to register the 2 classes in SCENTER.DLL. I use
a utility called CLASSMAN, written by Andrea Zaccagnini, available 
here:

http://www.os2ss.com/archives/hobbes/os2/util/wps/classman.zip

Install and run CLASSMAN, then register the DLL "SCENTER" with Class 
"SmartCenter", then again with "SCShadow". (\OS2\DLL is on your 
LIBPATH already, so you don't have to enter path info, or an 
extension. But you can.)

Then use "Create Object" to create an object of the SmartCenter class.
You can name it anything, but WarpCenter is recognizable.

Then you probably want to add the word WarpCenter to this line in 
CONFIG.SYS:

SET 
AUTOSTART=PROGRAMS,TASKLIST,FOLDERS,CONNECTIONS,LAUNCHPAD,WARPCENTER

Reboot and you should have it running. I think.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: karlbeem@mindspring.com                           11-Dec-99 14:55:12
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: ESPN problem and Netscape

From: "Karl M. Beem" <karlbeem@mindspring.com>

Several days ago ESPN changed its main page design.  I have Netscape 4.61 and
it has problems formatting the page.  The Netscape of Win95 has no problems. 
Has anyone else noticed this?




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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               11-Dec-99 08:23:19
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

>> No. It about the continuing inability and/or refusal of you and few others
>> here to see reality and to use Humpty Dumpty definitions for the words you
>> choose to use. 

>Monopolies requiring a lack of competition?
>Coercion requiring the use of force to restrain?
>These are "Humpty Dumpty definitions"?

I have no idea what you are trying to state here.  Why don't you try
again. 

What kind of drugs are your buddies on up there -- I'm assuming they will
explain the behavior we see here since nothing displayed in these posts
indicates that any your group think normally or as intellectuals.


_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           11-Dec-99 09:08:01
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82t7pu$js0$2@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 10:07 AM,
   larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> > Now also let us suppose that you wanted to buy a Jeep for a trek through
> > the Sahara Desert and needed specialized low pressure tires which Michelin
> > did not make. You would have two choices, pay $300 for tires for which you
> > had no possible use or buy a Range Rover for about $5,000 more than the
> > comparable Jeep since Range Rover didn't have such an agreement.

> $60x4=$5,000?  Your math is about as good as your economics and your
> ideology.

Your total idiocy is showing. A Range Rover costs at least $4800 more than
a comparable Jeep product. If you bothered to have Mommy explain all of
the above paragraph I wrote, you might comprehend what I wrote.


> >                                                                  Moreover,
> > when you needed to install blow-out guards, you had to pay 3 times what
> > Michelin guards cost.

> If non-Michelin guards are that much more, no wonder 95% of consumers
> choose Michelin tires.

You are a total idiot. For Michelin read MS. For blow-out guards read
software.

> > If I am willing to pay several hundred dollars more for a Compaq server
> > than a workstation which is all I really need, I can get a Compaq with a
> > different operating system. I can buy SmartSuite to run on it but I will
> > pay considerably more than the $95 Compaq charges for Office in their
> > software bundle. Or I can buy a Compaq workstation and throw out the
> > windows and pay $300 for SmartSuite.

> Yeah.  Big hairy deal.

Well, it is to the ten million or so Warp users around the world.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           11-Dec-99 09:11:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82t768$js0$1@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 09:57 AM,
   larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:


> > > How can you claim to send a "snail mail" to my University, when you
> > > don't know where it is?  When you get your mail back Return to Sender,
> > > don't blame me.
> > 
> > I seriously doubt that mail addressed 
> > 
> > Roderick Fraser, President
> > President's Office  Univ Hall 3-1
> > University of Alberta
> > 114 Street - 89 Avenue
> > Edmonton, Alberta  T6G 2M7
> > Canada
> > 
> > will be returned as undeliverable.

> No, but the line reading "that Lars guy who works for you in Calgary"
> will be the source of many hours of hilarity.

I discussed Larso who has a website on their server and claims to be a
student there.



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk                     11-Dec-99 13:35:21
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk (Glen D)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:29:25, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Glen D write:
> > On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:06:53, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:
> 
> > > If you have a problem with how a company does business, don't support
them.
> > > If you can't find a company you want to support, then you just don't
support
> > > any.  They don't have to change to suit your needs.  If the consumer
base
> > > you represent isn't worth the company's time, and happens to be not
worth
> > > any company's time, that's just the way of things.
> 
> > It's very easy to say that when you're not on "the recieving end" of 
> > Microsoft's busines tactics.
> 
> It's easy when you are, too.  Because its just as true.

No it isn't.  Microsoft have made it very difficult for anyone to go 
in a direction that Microsoft aren't happy with.  That makes it very 
difficult for someone to abandon Windows, as you suggested above, 
because the alternative is (virtually) nothing.

> 
> >                                   For Win users I imagine Microsoft's 
> > popularity is a wonderful thing
> 
> It's an irrelevent thing.  Microsoft software fulfills their needs.

Popularity is very important.  It's what convinces a software company 
to develop for your OS.  If Microsoft's popularity was to disappear 
you'd see a lot less Windows software, whether it fulfills your needs 
or not.

> 
> > got it.  Is the state of the world so bad that when an individual say 
> > "I don't want to be with the crowd" the rest of the world says "Well 
> > f*ck off then"?
> 
> Do you want the rest of the world to arrange it to make it easy for you to
> go off on your own tangent?
> 
No, as long as they don't actively make it difficult for me to go off 
on my own tangent.

> 
> -- 
> Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
> mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
> The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/
> 

Glen
-<remove Z from my e-mail Address>-

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From: mthiv@znetrover.com                               11-Dec-99 13:57:05
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner(scanner not ready)

From: mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin T.)

On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:48:07, mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin T.) wrote:

I finally bought the Microtek X6EL SCSI.

It's the first time I use a SCSI device and I need some help!  CFM 
Twain and  PMsane can open the scsi device, "the scanner is not ready"


I just want to make sure that the installation of the hardware is 
right.

This is what I done.

- First, installed  OS/ 2 SCSIsupport  - selective install
- Apply the latest fixpack (10)
- Apply the latest device driver fixpack.

At boot time I can see on the screen
	Adaptec AIC-7850 BIOS v1.14
	
	SCSI ID #6	Scanner 636EL

So I think the hardware installation is OK.


The scsi host adapter I got with the scanner is the AVA-2902E/I. But 
neither ddpack online or adaptec own the driver for this scsi card. So
I choose the driver selected by the selective install program Adaptec 
AIC-7850.

RMVIEW /IRQ   IRQ Level =  9  PCI Pin = NONE  Flg = SHARED       
AIC7870_0  Adaptec AIC7870

It seem that nothing else use IRQ 9.

Why CFM Twain and  PMsane can't see the scanner? Any help will be 
apreciated.

Thanks






> 
> I'd posted this article in comp.os.os2.multimedia, but I think it can 
> be a good choice to post the article here too.
>  
> Someone had success with a Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner under OS/2?
>  
> It's seem that only Sane/2 can provide the ability to run this scanner
> under Warp, but it still in "alpha".
>  
> I want to buy a scanner and this one fit my needs.
>  
> thanks
> 
> 
> No-spam delete the 'z'
> 
> Martin Thivierge
> Quebec, Canada

No-spam delete the 'z'

Martin Thivierge
Quebec, Canada

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              11-Dec-99 16:05:19
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:

> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
> here.

Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
that you do NOT use that product.

Your hocus-pocus economics are what stands in diametric opposition
to reality, reason, and logic.

> And as for moral reprehensiblity, the only one exhibiting such
> is you,

You only think so because you hold self-sacrifice, force, and
intellectual suicide as moral virtues.

The morality of life and of happiness (my OWN life and happiness)
that I live by is based on my recognition that reality exist as
an objective absolute - and that those of you who deny reality
and who defy logic are the ones who are anti-life.  The fact that
you would have us burn an achiever like Bill Gates on a stake is th
grim demonstration and only possible result of your creed.

Chris J Delanoy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rcpj@panix.com                                    11-Dec-99 16:15:23
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: MySQL

From: rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)

Is there an OS/2 MySQL server? I found some hints of MSQL, but that won't
do as I need to develop a database that will eventually run on MySQL on
a Unix platform.

Pierre
-- 
Pierre Jelenc                  | www.mp3.com/cucumbers  www.mp3.com/pawnshop
                               | www.cdbaby.com/buy/rawkinder.htm
The New York City Beer Guide   | Home Office Records http://www.web-ho.com
   http://www.nycbeer.org      | www.mp3.com/jeniferjackson

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From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca                           11-Dec-99 16:24:23
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:15:46, rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:

> 
> Is there an OS/2 MySQL server? I found some hints of MSQL, but that won't
> do as I need to develop a database that will eventually run on MySQL on
> a Unix platform.
> 

Yes there is, take a look at ...

URL http://www.netlabs.org/projects/index.html

--

Lorne Sunley

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From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net                     11-Dec-99 16:50:26
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: BootOS2 "disk full" problem

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug Bissett)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:59:14, scalisi@tin.it wrote:

> I use the following procedure:
> 
> 1- format two diskette using a dos program that format 82 tracks. 2- lxlite
> the complete (C:\*.*) OS/2 boot partition.
> 3- start bootos2
> 
> If anyone is interested, I can put here the dir list of the two diskettes I
> use for transfer files (using LPTOOL) between A WIN98 fat32 partition and
the
> WARP.
> 
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Antonio(Nino) Scalisi           scalisi@tin.it
> at 11:59(+0100, relative to GMT) on Saturday, 11 Dec 1999
> Using MR/2 ICE v2.01  Reg: #20729.
> Under ---> OS/2 WARP 4 rev.9.036 (fixpack 12)
> Java ver.  1.1.8  build 19991026
> ObjREXX 6.00   TCPIP 4.2 - MPTN 6.2007 (TCPIP 4.1 + W08620)
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 

I would advise caution if you try this approach. 

Many floppy drives CANNOT use 82 tracks (there seems to be a physical 
reason for this on some drives).

If you compress the whole OS/2 boot partition, you do run the risk of 
compressing some program that does not compress properly. You also run
the risk of compressing a program that is already compressed (this is 
not supposed to happen, but the LxLite author does warn about the 
possibility). If either of these things happens (there are other 
possibilities, good, and bad), you could end up with a non functioning
system.

Hope this helps...
******************************
From the PC of Doug Bissett
doug.bissett at attglobal.net
The " at " must be changed to "@"
******************************

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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          11-Dec-99 15:54:24
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: ESPN problem and Netscape

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:55:24, "Karl M. Beem" <karlbeem@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> Several days ago ESPN changed its main page design.  I have Netscape 4.61
and
> it has problems formatting the page.  The Netscape of Win95 has no problems. 

> Has anyone else noticed this?

I see no problems, though it's crowded as hell. (Too crowded to 
mention, anywhere, the disgraceful court testimony on CourtTV 
regarding the arrogant, power-mad and sex-crazed owner of the NBA 
Charlotte Hornets, or to elaborate on the crooked deal worked out to 
permit the Olympic weasel Samaranch to escape FBI interrogation when 
he visits Washington next week.)

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: rodsmith@speaker.rodsbooks.com                    11-Dec-99 16:00:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: rodsmith@speaker.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith)

[Posted and mailed]

In article <mzj44.117$yfn1.2097357@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca>,
	goober@snit.com (Mr. Ho Ke Dokie) writes:
> Rock and roll.  I'm getting hooked up next week to ADSL.  Got a 3Com
Etherlink
> card 3C905B-TX card and I want to know if it will be a big deal to get OS/2
to
> reconize the internet connection through this card.

Since you've just said you've got a standard Ethernet card, that means
you've cleared the first hurdle -- you're not using an internal DSL modem,
which probably works only in Windows.

For the rest, it depends on the networking protocols used by your ISP.
There are three methods in common use:

- Static IP address -- if your ISP assigns a static IP address, you just
  configure OS/2 to use it (and plug in a gateway/router, DNS servers, and
  so on) and you're set.
- DHCP -- if your ISP uses a protocol called DHCP to assign you an IP
  address when you boot, you must configure OS/2 to use DHCP. This
  shouldn't be a problem, although I've never configured an OS/2 system in
  this way before.
- PPPoE -- PPP over Ethernet is the latest craze among DSL providers. I
  don't know if there are any OS/2 PPPoE packages. If not, you may be out
  of luck if your ISP uses this, unless you care to shell out some money
  for a PPPoE-enabled DSL modem or something like a Linux box to serve as
  a router.

For the first two options, you can pretend that you're connecting your
OS/2 computer to a corporate Ethernet network -- you just configure it as
you would for any Ethernet connection with a static IP address or DHCP.

-- 
Rod Smith          rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~smithrod
Author of books on Linux networking & WordPerfect for Linux

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From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net                     11-Dec-99 16:50:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Y2K Woes

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug Bissett)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:00:24, jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net wrote:

> It's kind of late in the y2k game for this kind of stuff to be floating
> around.  These files have July date codes on them.
>  
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Fred Springfield                       for e-mail remove 'xxx'
> Plymouth, MN
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>  

This is not a Y2K related problem. It has something to do with a 
change made in the server support. The problem was introduced at the 
same time as some Y2K updates were made, so in order to get the Y2K 
updates, you also need the server support updates, which leaves you 
with the problem. I suspect that IBM won't "fix" this "problem", since
it only affects Peer networks, and not the big server networks. LARGE 
companies use servers, not Peer networks, and IBM doesn't want SMALL 
users.

At least it is easy to work around the problem, with the NET USE 
command.

Hope this helps...
******************************
From the PC of Doug Bissett
doug.bissett at attglobal.net
The " at " must be changed to "@"
******************************

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From: judithr@primenet.com                              11-Dec-99 08:45:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Where to go for laptop repair

From: judithr@primenet.com

Laptop repair shops that understand OS/2? 

My laptop is doing strange things and I have no idea where to go for
help.  If a desktop, I could start swapping out hardware.  With a
laptop... I'm not comfortable with that and don't have the pieces to
swap anyway. It's 3+ years old from Indelible Blue, what they called
a Maxwell, really a Twinhead. P100, 48 MB RAM, 850MB HD. glidepath
for mouse.   Has a small Win95 partition to connect to network at
work and most is OS/2. Sometimes it will not boot at all, sometimes
it boots and runs fine for a while, sometimes it boots and the mouse
cursor wanders all over the desktop all by itself.  Doesn't matter
if it is plugged in or using the battery. 

I don't want to lose all the setup, and am not sure I can back
things up across the OS/2 peer network at home.  

Suggestions appreciated, names of shop(s) in north side of Los
Angeles that might help woudl be  very appreciated. 


Judith Russell       
judithr@primenet.com                    




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From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Vi...               11-Dec-99 17:04:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 14:33:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

Message sender: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca (Michel A Goyette)

Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:35:59, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Davies write:
> > Lars:
> > 
> > Yes you can buy a computer without a DOS or Windows - NOW!. A short time
> > ago you could not.
> 
> You always could.  Who could stop you?
> 
> >                           Microsoft required contracts that brought them $
> > Billion$ from people who did not want or need their product - because of
> > restrictive contracts with M$.
> 
> But that only carries as for as the people selling computers.  Or are you
> saying that every PC system that came to be was under the MS contract?  No
> guys in basements?  No kids in the living room?  Ha.

	Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
"The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
number of CPU sold.  So, you were force to buy Windows even if you 
didn't want any OS on it.  It's not about having Windows or not on the
system but having to pay anyway the "Microsof tax" on this system.

Salut,

	Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
	ICQ #13376913
	http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            11-Dec-99 10:25:25
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 16:33:28
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> > No, but the line reading "that Lars guy who works for you in Calgary"
> > will be the source of many hours of hilarity.
>
> I discussed Larso who has a website on their server and claims to be a
> student there.

Only a fascist would try to harm another because they have a different
opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               11-Dec-99 09:51:05
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 16:33:28
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

williamd wrote:

> This sounds *great*; thanks for posting the info! Here's hoping they
> choose an appropriate domain name- like os2online or something!!
>
> Bill
> __
> williamd1@attglobal.net

Thanks Bill.  InnoVal actually engineered the low-cost
deal for OS/2 users in partnership with AFST (Advanced
Family Safe Technologies, Inc) and it is a great deal for
OS/2 users.

Get in now and it is only $12 a month for an entire year
with  56k connections, 100% dialup access either locally
or through an 800 number (and that includes Hawaii, Alaska
and Puerto Rico), 24 hours a day, 7 days a week access.
Go to any other vendor and ask for a discount because
you use OS/2 and they ignore you.  Sign up with them
and any OS/2 support you need is usually a joke of the
biggest kind.

InnoVal and AFST are doing this because they believe
OS/2 users are a better equipped and a more knowledgeable
group of Internet users.  We all know the most significant
costs for a nationwide ISP are marketing and technical
support.  OS/2 users are an active easier-to-reach online
community, we understand quickly, and we readily share
the knowledge with each other through various web sites
newsgroups, and other public forums.

Again, InnoVal is to be applauded for stepping forward
to once again, bring a service or product to the OS/2
community that is being ignored by other OS/2 vendors
or former OS/2 vendors.  JSM (now PolarBar) is still - to
this day - the best Java Emailer on the market and it is
being updated with new features and other good things
by the Paul vanKeep group of Java programmers.  Without
InnoVal JSM and PolarBar would be dead in the water.

OS/2 users need to support OS/2 users, vendors and
other commercial enterprises that cater to OS/2.  For
an OS/2 user to step forward in the public realm and
whine their heads off at such entrepreneurial leadership
is ridiculous.  More importantly, it is the best way to kill
off other OS/2 incentives.

Take advantage of the offer extended by and for OS/2
users by Innoval and AFST by signing up as a preferred
OS/2 user with their new ISP for OS/2 users.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City (http://warpcity.com)



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From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               11-Dec-99 10:06:15
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 16:33:28
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu wrote:

> In article <3851A98F.459420AF@WarpCity.com>,
>   OS2Guy@WarpCity.com wrote:
>
> > Here's some hot news for all you NON-Warp City Members:
>
> Look, don't bother doing us any "favors"...

Unless it feeds your OS/2 pocket directly, right Steve?
You know like where to find that elusive OS/2 fix or
OS/2 great deal?

If I provide information or news you want then you can't
applaud me enough but if it isn't something to you like
to hear then you want to kill the messenger.

It is too bad you miss all the other good news and
information Warp City offers its members.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City (http://warpcity.com)


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From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               11-Dec-99 10:01:13
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 16:33:29
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Bob Eager wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm)
> wrote:
>
> > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?
>
> This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their
> newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients.
> Leaving loyal users out in the cold.
>

Leaving loyal users out in the cold?  Lessee - did they withdraw
PostRoad Mailer from you the way the developer of CUSeeme/2
did?  Did they lie to you to get you to buy their product then run
off into the night the way SPG did?

No InnoVal did not.  To this day they provide free distribution of
the Post Road Mailer (try that with CUSeeMe/2) and have encouraged
others to continue development of the J Street Mailer. Which is exactly
what is happening.  Paul vanKeep and his band of merry OS/2 Java
developers have continued development of the former JSM (now
PolarBar) Java emailer and will continue to do so.  Had InnoVal
pulled that product and forbid anyone from touching it there would
be no PolarBar or further development today.

InnoVal is to be applauded for their continued devotion to
OS/2, the OS/2 user and the OS/2 community at large.

You want to kill off OS/2?  Take a look at what you are
personally doing to help do that today.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City (http://warpcity.com)



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From: nospam_ktk@netlabs.org                            11-Dec-99 17:33:27
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 16:33:29
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Adrian Gschwend" <nospam_ktk@netlabs.org>

On 11 Dec 1999 16:15:46 GMT, Pierre Jelenc wrote:

>Is there an OS/2 MySQL server? I found some hints of MSQL, but that won't
>do as I need to develop a database that will eventually run on MySQL on
>a Unix platform.

There is, it works very well on my webserver. Go to hobbes.nmsu.edu and
search for MySQL.

cu

Adrian


---
Adrian Gschwend
@ OS/2 Netlabs

ICQ: 22419590
ktk@netlabs.org
-------
The OS/2 OpenSource Project:
http://www.netlabs.org


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From: alDOTdunsmuir@sympatico.ca                        11-Dec-99 18:50:11
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 16:33:29
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: "Al Dunsmuir" <alDOTdunsmuir@sympatico.ca>

Rod,

Bjarne Jensen is putting the finishing touches on a PPPoE plugin for
his the InJoy Firewall product.   I've been a happy alpha/beta tester
over the last month.   It has been VERY nice to use the  sympatico 
newserver over ADSL - my best combined (up+down) data rate so
far has been 210KBps (>1680Kbps)! 

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:00:59 GMT, Rod Smith wrote:

>In article <mzj44.117$yfn1.2097357@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca>,
>	goober@snit.com (Mr. Ho Ke Dokie) writes:
>> Rock and roll.  I'm getting hooked up next week to ADSL.  Got a 3Com
Etherlink
>> card 3C905B-TX card and I want to know if it will be a big deal to get OS/2 
to
>> reconize the internet connection through this card.
>...
>- PPPoE -- PPP over Ethernet is the latest craze among DSL providers. I
>  don't know if there are any OS/2 PPPoE packages. If not, you may be out
>  of luck if your ISP uses this, unless you care to shell out some money
>  for a PPPoE-enabled DSL modem or something like a Linux box to serve as
>  a router.
>...
>-- 
>Rod Smith          rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
>http://members.bellatlantic.net/~smithrod
>Author of books on Linux networking & WordPerfect for Linux





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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 20:50:08
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:07
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Glen D write:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:29:25, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

> > > It's very easy to say that when you're not on "the recieving end" of 
> > > Microsoft's busines tactics.
> > 
> > It's easy when you are, too.  Because its just as true.
> 
> No it isn't.  Microsoft have made it very difficult for anyone to go 
> in a direction that Microsoft aren't happy with.


How did they do this?

None of the responses to this question, by the way, have been anything other
than a collection of businesses exercising their property rights.


>                                                       That makes it very 
> difficult for someone to abandon Windows, as you suggested above, 
> because the alternative is (virtually) nothing.

Virtually nothing isn't nothing.

There is no guarantee that Mr. NoWindows is going to find it as easy or as
cheap to buy a computer than Mr. Windows is.  That's the nature of life.  If
you want to buy a rare CD or piece of art, you'll have to hunt for it while
a person wanting Britney Spears or Dogs Playing Poker will pick up what they
want in a breeze.

> > >                                   For Win users I imagine Microsoft's 
> > > popularity is a wonderful thing
> > 
> > It's an irrelevent thing.  Microsoft software fulfills their needs.
> 
> Popularity is very important.  It's what convinces a software company 
> to develop for your OS.  If Microsoft's popularity was to disappear 
> you'd see a lot less Windows software, whether it fulfills your needs 
> or not.

If Microsoft's popularity was to disappear than it was fulfilling a lot
fewer needs.


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 20:45:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:07
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michel A Goyette write:
> Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:35:59, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:
> 
> > As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Davies write:
> > > Lars:
> > > 
> > > Yes you can buy a computer without a DOS or Windows - NOW!. A short time
> > > ago you could not.
> > 
> > You always could.  Who could stop you?
> > 
> > >                           Microsoft required contracts that brought them 
$
> > > Billion$ from people who did not want or need their product - because of
> > > restrictive contracts with M$.
> > 
> > But that only carries as for as the people selling computers.  Or are you
> > saying that every PC system that came to be was under the MS contract?  No
> > guys in basements?  No kids in the living room?  Ha.
> 
> 	Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
> "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
> number of CPU sold.

Sure.  Microsoft has that right.

>                                So, you were force to buy Windows even if you 

> didn't want any OS on it.

You weren't forced to buy it in the first place.  The store placed
conditions of sale on the product that you didn't like.  Then don't support
the store.

>                                It's not about having Windows or not on the
> system but having to pay anyway the "Microsof tax" on this system.

The "Microsoft tax" is totally voluntary.  Nobody paid it that didn't have to.

Comparing it to real taxes, where if you don't pay you are thrown in jail or
shot, is insane at best.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: bstephan@redshift.com                             11-Dec-99 12:50:08
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:07
Subj: Re: Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner(scanner not ready)

From: bstephan@redshift.com

Hi Martin,

Do you have 32 bit Windows on your machine? If so, can you
scan from Win?

When I first got my E6 I had such a problem--could scan from
Win 32 but not from OS/2 using Impos/2. Then I tried the
demo version of the CFM Twain drivers and I could scan using
those which I ran from PM View. I had my scanner connected
to my regular SCSI card, not the one that came with the
scanner at that time. Impos/2 support suggested I try the
card that came with the scanner. I did that and found I
could then also scan using Impos/2. 

What software are you using to scan from OS/2? If it is
Impos/2 you might try the Twain demo to see if that works
for you.

Bob

In
<4hfPXeIL3YyL-pn2-LUd03Kd4sgQq@cust15.tnt1.dial.que1.uunet.ca>,
on 12/11/99 
   at 08:29 PM, mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin T.) said:

>Hi Bob!

>At first, I didn't know that I have to use a terminator. So
>now I had  put the terminator in the scsi port 2 of the
>scanner.(reboot) But  without luck. There is  a third
>port(15 pins)for the 35mm slide &  filmstrip scanning
>adapter at the back of the scanner. Should I put a 
>terminator in this port too, I don't know.. I'd plug the
>35mm slide &  filmstrip scanning adapter to this port
>(reboot). but nothing change.

>After I had the support for SCSI The following lines were
>had in the  config.sys,
>BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
>BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /SHARE
>BASEDEV=AIC7870.ADD

>All seems fine.

>Thanks for your support. 



>No-spam delete the 'z'

>Martin Thivierge
>Quebec, Canada

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bob Stephan bstephan@redshift.com or BobStephan@compuserve.com
  Happily using OS/2 Warp on the Central California Coast.
   http://www.redshift.com/~bstephan
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               11-Dec-99 12:57:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:07
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:00:59 GMT, Rod Smith wrote:

>Since you've just said you've got a standard Ethernet card, that means
>you've cleared the first hurdle -- you're not using an internal DSL modem,
>which probably works only in Windows.
>
>For the rest, it depends on the networking protocols used by your ISP.
>There are three methods in common use:
>
>- Static IP address -- if your ISP assigns a static IP address, you just
>  configure OS/2 to use it (and plug in a gateway/router, DNS servers, and
>  so on) and you're set.

I just got my from Pac Bell.   They came in, put the spiltter downstair at
the D-Mark, came to the office, put an external DSL modem, runs a 2-pair
phone cable into the modem, and a 10-baseT cable to my 10-baseT hub.    That
was it.   I bought up TCPCFG2, fill in the Static IP address, the DNS server,
the backup DNS server and so forth.   Reboot.   They checked to see that we
are pinking and left.   No trouble using it thereafter.    Of course, now,
we're busy putting in a firewall.


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From: gerd.thier@arcormail.de                           11-Dec-99 21:14:09
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:07
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Gerd Thier <gerd.thier@arcormail.de>


Lars P Ormberg schrieb:
> 
> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Davies write:
> > Lars:
> >
> > Yes you can buy a computer without a DOS or Windows - NOW!. A short time
> > ago you could not.
> 
> You always could.  Who could stop you?
> 

Please give me a example. Please tell me a company where to buy a IBM
compartible PC
without OEM licences from MS.

Compaq, Dell, IBM, Gateway, Siemens, Vobis ( Germany) .....

Where have a BEGINNER a possibility to get other then preinstalled MS
OS.

If You ignore this facts, sorry, I don't know on with planet You
live.     

-- 
MfG / Regards

Gerd  

This system has been running for 0d 1h 27m 33s 62ms (en).

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               11-Dec-99 13:06:11
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:07
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:19:53 -0500, David T. Johnson wrote:

>
>
>skrise@attglobal.net wrote:
>> 
>> Just a query out of the blue.
>> 
>> While reading "OS/2 Programming for Dummies" (I guess you
>> know what that says about me), the author mentioned that
>> in the next release of Warp (which would have been Warp
>> 4 at that time) that the Single Input Queue problem (where
>> an application locks up the entire UI due to some arcana
>> that I am unfamiliar with) would be fixed.
>> 
>> I know it wasn't (for Warp 4, at least).  Is this something
>> that IBM is still promising to address?
>
>This was an issue with Warp 3 which used to lockup due to this. In OS/2
>v4, IBM made other changes that made it a non-issue.  The SIQ is still
>there but rarely causes problems anymore on my system.  I cannot even
>remember when I last saw a lockup due to this--maybe 2 years?  I think
>that IBM was/is trying to maintain compatibility with OS/2
>applications.  I'm not sure but I think that WSEB is similar to OS/2 v4
>in this way.
>> 

First of all, it's not "Single Input Queue" - and it's not an OS/2 thing,
it's an PM thing.   PM has plenty of input queues but they do it
"synchronously" - in other words, messages are done via a post instead of a
send.    Well designed PM programs rarely, rarely has this problem (Relish,
for instance, has been around for eons and I've been using it for many many
years and it has never - not even ONCE - cause a PM queue lockup).    

Poorly written monolithic programs - or half-hearted ported Windows programs
- unfortunately, does cause headache from time to time (like the DumbSuite
for OS/2, and Netscape).    Warp 4 added sometime to monitor the queue and
make it a little easier to clear the queue but it is not a "non-issue".

It's not something IBM can just "fix" because it would end up breaking just
about every mission critical aps the enterprises are using for their
line-of-business.

In general, it's an overblown issue used by Windoze nuts to attack OS/2.


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: isaacl@sonics.ece.ubc.ca                          11-Dec-99 19:22:11
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: isaacl@sonics.ece.ubc.ca (e-frog)

Bob Eager (rde@tavi.co.uk) wrote:
: On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm) 
: wrote:

: > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?

: This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their 
: newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients. 
: Leaving loyal users out in the cold.

I would disagree with this point of view.
I mean first, when they decided to go Java, they let Post Road Mailer out
for free. For everyone. That was nice.

And then when they found that they couldn't pay their bills, they gave
PLENTY of advanced warning that they would have to do some sort of major
switch of business focus. 
JStreet mailer was nice, but since they didn't seem to plan on going on
with it, it has been left to someone else to maintain, unofficially, and
as far as I know it is available to everyone for FREE.

That's about as classy an exit as you can get. You mean, you
would actually want a quiet exit? Leave you hanging with no
notice? (TrueSpectra was also very nice about it, but I wish they'd given
more warning). I surely hope you are not comparing Innoval's exit with,
say SPG, or CUSeeMe/2 or maybe even DeScribe!

It's too bad about Innoval. I wish them luck, and if our paths should ever
cross in the future, I'll remember the nice things they did.



Isaac

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 20:02:27
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
> On <82t7pu$js0$2@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 10:07 AM,
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> > > Now also let us suppose that you wanted to buy a Jeep for a trek through
> > > the Sahara Desert and needed specialized low pressure tires which
Michelin
> > > did not make. You would have two choices, pay $300 for tires for which
you
> > > had no possible use or buy a Range Rover for about $5,000 more than the
> > > comparable Jeep since Range Rover didn't have such an agreement.
> 
> > $60x4=$5,000?  Your math is about as good as your economics and your
> > ideology.
> 
> Your total idiocy is showing. A Range Rover costs at least $4800 more than
> a comparable Jeep product. If you bothered to have Mommy explain all of
> the above paragraph I wrote, you might comprehend what I wrote.

Ah, but that isn't what you said.  You said that the second choice was to
"buy a Range Rover for about $5,000 more than the comparable Jeep since
Range Rover didn't have such an agreement."  But the higher cost of a Range
Rover is based on more than the tires.  In fact, you speak that in the
current situation (where Michelin isn't nearly as successful) the price is
already higher, making your attempt to blame your extra expenditure on
Michelin's ludicrous at best.

> > If non-Michelin guards are that much more, no wonder 95% of consumers
> > choose Michelin tires.
> 
> You are a total idiot. For Michelin read MS. For blow-out guards read
> software.

If not Microsoft software is three times more than the comparable MS
software, no wonder 95% of consumers choose Microsoft products.

> > > If I am willing to pay several hundred dollars more for a Compaq server
> > > than a workstation which is all I really need, I can get a Compaq with a
> > > different operating system. I can buy SmartSuite to run on it but I will
> > > pay considerably more than the $95 Compaq charges for Office in their
> > > software bundle. Or I can buy a Compaq workstation and throw out the
> > > windows and pay $300 for SmartSuite.
> 
> > Yeah.  Big hairy deal.
> 
> Well, it is to the ten million or so Warp users around the world.

Then a company will tailor its operations to support the ten million
potential worldwide customers!  And why?  Because there is nothing stopping
them from competing with Microsoft.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 20:32:08
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> > No, but the line reading "that Lars guy who works for you in Calgary"
> > will be the source of many hours of hilarity.
> 
> I discussed Larso who has a website on their server and claims to be a
> student there.

Except that you don't know where he lives.
You don't know what his name is.
You don't know the difference between what he says and what he does not.
You don't know even what the homepage is...since you've never been there.

Not to mention your problem is that he didn't answer a post where you asked
the idiotic question if he was student or staff.

Or that your complaint is that he's a "dirty Canuck" trying to comment on
the moral validty of U.S. laws.

Or that you're so upset because he doesn't speak out against Microsoft.

While I'm sure that you find this all very very serious crimes against
humanity, I don't think that University administration are going to be too
pleased receiving a stack of paper in the mail, asking to do five minutes of
work for you, when having to sift through the 'evidence' to discover what is
and is not relevent, all because you didn't like the opinion of somebody
(again because they happened to be Canadian).

Besides, the University uses Microsoft products.  Lots of them.  MS Office.
MS Windows 95.  MS Office for MacIntosh.  MS Internet Explorer.  So I don't
think that "I want him booted because he says Microsoft isn't evil" is going
to carry too much weight coming from you.


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 15:32:21
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:27:20 GMT, Chris J Delanoy wrote:

=> "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> wrote:
=>
=>> Demonstrate to me that a rational mind CREATES choices!
=>
=>I'm not going to waste my time at the impossible task of trying to
=>reason with somebody who professes at the outset that his mind is
=>invalid and that reality does not exist.  Somebody like yourself
=>whose only rational conviction is the choice to evade reality can
=>not be convinced.
=>
=>Chris J Delanoy
=>
=>
=>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
=>Before you buy.

And just what makes you think I hold those opinions?

It seems to me that you jump into la-la land to arrive at your peculiar
conclusions.

It's because reality exists that the rational mind does not create choices --
unless of course you have a wierd definition of both rational and mind, in
which case you can prove anything.

In the following brief explanation, I am assuming that rational mind =
reason, create = discover or invent.

Reason can merely compoute the consequences of (possible) choices. It can
neither make those choces (decide between them) nor create them. Choices are
not created, they are apprehended (for this you need imagination), and when
you make a choice it is your emotions working, not your reason. Reason cannot
impel anyone to action; only emotions can.

Of course, when you apprehend a possible choice, if you do not have the
means, you cannot implement that choice. In that case it may be possible for
you to invent or discover the means. Both of these processes are complex, and
reason plays a role in both. But reason alone can neither discover nor
invent.




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From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 15:35:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: RE: who runs--- Why Napa won't cut mail keys

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 10:07:58 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=> Okay, sure.  I'm
=>still mad at those NAPA bastards for not cutting my mail key last year.

Tsk, tsk.

They were just protecting their ass. How did they know that you were the
legitimate possessor of that key? Just on your ays so? Why should they believ
you?

Oh, because you're so honest, I guess. Proof?




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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 15:38:03
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 10:07:58 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=>> Now also let us suppose that you wanted to buy a Jeep for a trek through
=>> the Sahara Desert and needed specialized low pressure tires which Michelin
=>> did not make. You would have two choices, pay $300 for tires for which you
=>> had no possible use or buy a Range Rover for about $5,000 more than the
=>> comparable Jeep since Range Rover didn't have such an agreement.
=>
=>$60x4=$5,000?  Your math is about as good as your economics and your
ideology.

And your deliberate misreading is an asshole's stunt.




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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 20:42:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
> On <82m84j$m61$8@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/08/99 at 06:30 PM,
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> > > I understand that it is your belief that a trader is permitted to do 
> > > virtually anything that does not involve bloodshed. That has not been
true 
> > > for over a century.
> 
> > Then the U.S. has not been a free society for over a century.
> 
> Neither, then, has Canada, Great Britain, or any other country in the
> western world which regulates businesses for the good of the common
> citizen.

The problem is that this good is never acheived.  It's a folly.  So your
defense for the restriction of freedom turns out to fail anyways.

> Of course that is absurd. By your infantile, distorted reasoning not
> worthy of a kindergarten dropout, only anarchy would be acceptable.

NMo it wouldn't.  Small government doesn't equal anarchy.

> I have decided that I will never interview a graduate of the University of
> Alberta if they confer any degree upon you.

Don't worry, I don't think that would have been much of an issue.

>                                               If you are an example of the
> university, the university is a disgrace to the name, the province, the
> country, and the world.

Oh well, this is just another subset of your continued irrationality.  I'm
sure when a person is told "sorry, you didn't get the job because somebody
who went to your University once told me Microsoft shouldn't be controlled
by the government" that their first instinct will be to breathe relief that
they didn't end up working for a boss who's that crazy.

> A copy of this message is being sent to the university.

A copy of this message is being sent to the newsgroups.

SO THERE!

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 15:53:25
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 05:32:31 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=>Harming _you_ by only selling you the product you wanted under a condition
=>you didn't want.  If you are so upset by it, then don't get it.  If you want
=>the Learjet that bad, I guess you have to pay the price they want.  Its
=>their right to set the price they are willing to sell for.  Price happens to
=>be on a block of property that is "all or nothing" then you'll either buy
=>all or nothing.  Capice?

I'm not complaining about the price of the Learjet. Not at all. I want it!
I'm willing to pay for it! I came to Learjet with the cheque in my hot little
hand, all ready to deal! Or did you miss that part of my post?

I'm not willing to pay for the other plane, that's all. Why should I? And why
should it be considered moral for a company to try to unload something on me
by tieing it to the product that I want to buy from them? That's coercion, no
matter how you slice it.

Seems to me you like the idea of the power to force people to buy
all-or-nothing. That makes you not only a fool, but a first-rate prick as
well. Sorry, I misspoke myself. A thrid-rate prick.

Business is a relationship between supplier and customer. A business is not
an entity unto itself. It needs customers, and therefore has responsibilities
towards them. The customer has a responsibility to the business, too -- to
pay a fair price (else the business can't stay in business, etc. You can
figure out the rest of the argument yourself. No, on 2nd thought, you can't
-- but I ain't gonna do it for you.)

Your problem is that you think property rights are the only rights. They are
are contingent rights at best; and non-exisent in most human relationships.



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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 21:09:16
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: who runs--- Why Napa won't cut mail keys

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 11 Dec 1999 10:07:58 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> => Okay, sure.  I'm
> =>still mad at those NAPA bastards for not cutting my mail key last year.
> 
> Tsk, tsk.
> 
> They were just protecting their ass. How did they know that you were the
> legitimate possessor of that key?

Other places acknowledge that you have a key, that there's no way to know
who's key it is, and they might as well copy it for you.


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 21:07:18
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 11 Dec 1999 10:07:58 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> =>> Now also let us suppose that you wanted to buy a Jeep for a trek through
> =>> the Sahara Desert and needed specialized low pressure tires which
Michelin
> =>> did not make. You would have two choices, pay $300 for tires for which
you
> =>> had no possible use or buy a Range Rover for about $5,000 more than the
> =>> comparable Jeep since Range Rover didn't have such an agreement.
> =>
> =>$60x4=$5,000?  Your math is about as good as your economics and your
ideology.
> 
> And your deliberate misreading is an asshole's stunt.

I'm not misreading.  Bob's attempt to "blame" the extra cost on Michelin
wasn't valid.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bstephan@redshift.com                             11-Dec-99 09:42:19
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner(scanner not ready)

From: bstephan@redshift.com

Is the scsi cable properly terminated at the scanner end?

In
<4hfPXeIL3YyL-pn2-0FmRtrQBwP2F@cust141.tnt1.dial.que1.uunet.ca>,
on 12/11/99 
   at 01:57 PM, mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin T.) said:

>On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:48:07, mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin
>T.) wrote:

>I finally bought the Microtek X6EL SCSI.

>It's the first time I use a SCSI device and I need some
>help!  CFM  Twain and  PMsane can open the scsi device,
>"the scanner is not ready"


>I just want to make sure that the installation of the
>hardware is  right.

>This is what I done.

>- First, installed  OS/ 2 SCSIsupport  - selective install
>- Apply the latest fixpack (10)
>- Apply the latest device driver fixpack.

>At boot time I can see on the screen
>	Adaptec AIC-7850 BIOS v1.14
>	
>	SCSI ID #6	Scanner 636EL

>So I think the hardware installation is OK.


>The scsi host adapter I got with the scanner is the
>AVA-2902E/I. But  neither ddpack online or adaptec own the
>driver for this scsi card. So I choose the driver selected
>by the selective install program Adaptec  AIC-7850.

>RMVIEW /IRQ   IRQ Level =  9  PCI Pin = NONE  Flg = SHARED      
> AIC7870_0  Adaptec AIC7870

>It seem that nothing else use IRQ 9.

>Why CFM Twain and  PMsane can't see the scanner? Any help
>will be  apreciated.

>Thanks






>> 
>> I'd posted this article in comp.os.os2.multimedia, but I think it can 
>> be a good choice to post the article here too.
>>  
>> Someone had success with a Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner under OS/2?
>>  
>> It's seem that only Sane/2 can provide the ability to run this scanner
>> under Warp, but it still in "alpha".
>>  
>> I want to buy a scanner and this one fit my needs.
>>  
>> thanks
>> 
>> 
>> No-spam delete the 'z'
>> 
>> Martin Thivierge
>> Quebec, Canada

>No-spam delete the 'z'

>Martin Thivierge
>Quebec, Canada

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bob Stephan bstephan@redshift.com or BobStephan@compuserve.com
  Happily using OS/2 Warp on the Central California Coast.
   http://www.redshift.com/~bstephan
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mthiv@znetrover.com                               11-Dec-99 20:29:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner(scanner not ready)

From: mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin T.)

Hi Bob!

At first, I didn't know that I have to use a terminator. So now I had 
put the terminator in the scsi port 2 of the scanner.(reboot) But 
without luck. There is  a third port(15 pins)for the 35mm slide & 
filmstrip scanning adapter at the back of the scanner. Should I put a 
terminator in this port too, I don't know.. I'd plug the 35mm slide & 
filmstrip scanning adapter to this port (reboot). but nothing change.

After I had the support for SCSI The following lines were had in the 
config.sys,
BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /SHARE
BASEDEV=AIC7870.ADD

All seems fine.

Thanks for your support. 



No-spam delete the 'z'

Martin Thivierge
Quebec, Canada

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: goober@snit.com                                   11-Dec-99 20:36:26
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: goober@snit.com (Mr. Ho Ke Dokie)

-Bjarne Jensen is putting the finishing touches on a PPPoE plugin for
-his the InJoy Firewall product.   I've been a happy alpha/beta tester
-over the last month.   It has been VERY nice to use the  sympatico 
-newserver over ADSL - my best combined (up+down) data rate so
-far has been 210KBps (>1680Kbps)! 


Wow. I see you will be on sympatico as well, which province may I ask.

Could you please list the programs you use for the ADSL setup under OS/2?

I get a new HD next week and I then have two days to get it up and running
before the high speed hookup.  They'll do the windoze setup but I want OS/2.


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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 20:37:08
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Richard A Crane write:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:44:51, larso@commodore. (Lars P 
> Ormberg) wrote:
> 
> > Force, or coercion, is required to maintain a monopoly.  Nobody can use
> > arbitrary force legally, except for government.
> >  
> > -- 
> > Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
> > mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
> > The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/
> > 
> 
> Do yourself a favour beg borrow or steal a reader on law and
> read it.


What would be the purpose?


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      11-Dec-99 21:19:16
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
<cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:

> Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:
>
>> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
>> here.
>
>Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
>can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
>prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
>you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
>the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
>that you do NOT use that product.


It's the Bill Clinton approach.
EBB

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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 21:13:09
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw josco write:
> On 10 Dec 1999, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> > As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Joseph write:
> > > Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> > > Hey, I can make that same nutty argument about my property rights. I
> > > think it can be fun.  Let me try.....
> > 
> > Let's see if you, too, can show freedom being limited only by causing harm
> > (not, of course, for the 'harm' of being sold something) by initiating
force or
> > fraud.
> 
> A business is a property.  

Yes.  And its not yours the consumer's property.

> > Yes, you do have that right, even though the Canadian government
> > (government...the usurper of freedom...remember that) has taken it away.
> > You are morally justified, though you'll get thrown in jail for it (the
> > same as Microsoft will be punished by the state for doing morally
justified
> > but illegal actions).
> 
> Well now we have some progress -- you now recognize the LAW

In the case of anti-trust, I've been recognizing the invalidity OF THE LAW
repeatedly.

> A gun is measureable.  Monopoly power is measurable.

Monopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.

Measuring the monopoly powers of Microsoft is like measuring the number of
guns on the head of a pin.  There are none.

> You have refused to recognize the phenomena of a monoipoly and monopoly
> power.

I will not lie and say that Microsoft is a monopoly.
I will not lie and say that Microsoft can use monopoly power.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 16:16:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: who runs--- Why Napa won't cut mail keys

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 21:09:32 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=>Other places acknowledge that you have a key, that there's no way to know
=>who's key it is, and they might as well copy it for you.

True enough, but they only have to get burned once. PO Box keys are not
supposed to be cut for anyone except a PO person.

BTW, it's WHOSE -- a common error.  WHO'S means WHO IS.



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From: larso@commodore.                                  11-Dec-99 21:21:12
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Mike Trettel slrnerifically write:
> On 8 Dec 1999 17:57:06 GMT, Lars P Ormberg <larso@commodore.> wrote:

> >Yes.  That would be expressed in the contract.  As with all contracts,
there
> >are clauses which must be upheld.  Are you telling me that all these
> >companies failed to read the fine print?  (Which doesn't matter, since when
> >you sign a contract you're responsible for all parts of it).
> 
> Actually, that's incorrect under US law.  Under US law a contract is null
> and void if it is entered to under duress (one example), or if it states
> that the contractee must do something illegal

When was selling products illegal?  Oh yeah, under antitrust law.

> Contract law is *not* the simple thing that you've made it out to be.

When there's no force/fraud involved in signing the contract, and nobody is
initiatng force/fraud in the contract, why shouldn't it be so simple?

>                                                                      The
> classic example of the first condition is Microsoft pressuring IBM to
> drop OS/2 alltogether in order to get the same OEM price as Dell and
> Compaq.

In other words, IBM wanted to do things Microsoft didn't want, and expected
to get a special deal from Microsoft despite this.  If you think about it
for a moment, you'll see how idiotic MS would be to give IBM a deal in this
scenario.

>              IBM balked at this, so MS basically told IBM they can pay the
> full over the counter price.

MS can ask any price they want.  Do you disagree with this?

>                               IBM didn't get a contract until 15 minutes
> before the official Win95 release date, and signed because they knew that
> the IBM PC Co. would be dead in the water without Win95.

Yep.

>                                                           I know you will
> state that IBM did this "voluntarily", but the Norris testimony in the
> antitrust trial shows pretty clearly that IBM did it to keep the PcCo
> alive.

Companies act all the time to preserve their company.

A company reducing its cost to make it more competitive with a competitor's
product is "voluntarily" acting, but I'm sure it is pretty clear that a
company would do so to keep themselves alive.


This situation is NO DIFFERENT.


> You'll just hand wave this away though.  It must be nice to be always
> right.

Oh, its a treat.

> >Any contract requires you to perform the actions specified.  It isn't being
> >"forced", because you chose to sign the contract.
> 
> And if the contract states you must break the law in some fashion?  Is
> that a legal contract?

Legal, no.  But if the law you'd be breaking is unjust, then the contract
should be legal since the unjust thing wouldn't exist.

> >Economic force has no power except from government.  Having to live up to
> >the terms of the contract is not force or coercion.
> 
> 100 years of antitrust law in the US disagrees with this proposition.

And its wrong.
It's an attack on freedom.

> >You don't _need_ to buy bread.  There's a difference.
> 
> I suppose I don't need to breath, either.  This statement is so far from
> reality that it's nonsense.

Your statement has absolutely nothing to do with mine.  Try to follow along.

> >Nobody has yet shown a real world example where Microsoft "forced" somebody
> >to do something.  The _only_ demonstrations to date have been a company
> >signing a contract and having to live up to its terms.
> 
> The only way you can accept this is to totally ignore the testimony
> offered in the antitrust trial and the findings of fact.

Give an example, please.

What part of the trial featured people telling stories of gangs forcing
them to use Windows?

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 16:28:02
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 21:07:36 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=>I'm not misreading.  Bob's attempt to "blame" the extra cost on Michelin
=>wasn't valid.

Bob's arithmetic was (prices for argument's sake only)

Jeep with Michelin tires = $25,000, of which $300 is for tires Bob doesn't
want.

Range Rover with other tires = $30,000, of which $300 (more or less) is for
tires he does want.

So to get the tires he does want, he has to pay about $5,000 more, even
though the tires themselves don't cost $5,000 (about the only point you got
right.)

There's another alternative, buy the Jeep, junk the tires, and replace them.
Cheaper, but still involving wasted money.

A customer should not be put in this position. Customers wishes must take
precedence over business's desires. (Always excepting the customer's wish to
pay too little for the product. I reiterate: business is a relationship, with
mutual but not symmetrical responsibilities.)

And just because I put that last remark in brackets doesn't mean it's
parenthetical. It's essential to the argument. If you can't accept it as a
moral truth, there's no point talking to you anymore.

You continually talk as if no one had any responsibilities to anyone. If you
really believe that, you can't justify objections to anything anyone might do
to you. So you don't like it! So what? If my only responsibility is to
myself, why should I care whether you like it or not? I'll do what I like,
and if it kills you, too bad.




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From: mamodeo@stny.rr.com                               11-Dec-99 17:45:26
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Marty <mamodeo@stny.rr.com>

Tim Martin wrote:
> [more spam]

Don't you think once was enough to post your spam?  Why not confine it to
appropriate newsgroups?

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mamodeo@stny.rr.com                               11-Dec-99 17:49:28
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Marty <mamodeo@stny.rr.com>

Tim Martin wrote:
> 
> It is too bad you miss all the other good news and
> information Warp City offers its members.

It is too bad your spam continues to infest these newsgroups.

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     11-Dec-99 15:04:01
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw josco write:
> > On 10 Dec 1999, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> >
> > > As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Joseph write:
> > > > Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> > > > Hey, I can make that same nutty argument about my property rights. I
> > > > think it can be fun.  Let me try.....
> > >
> > > Let's see if you, too, can show freedom being limited only by causing
harm
> > > (not, of course, for the 'harm' of being sold something) by initiating
force or
> > > fraud.
> >
> > A business is a property.
>
> Yes.  And its not yours the consumer's property.

No doubt.
But I have a business and your business is hurting mine.  My god - how do we
resolve
that problem if property rights are so absolute?  Of course the answer is no
right is
absolute.  Why you can be sent to war, forced to forfeit your life for the
protection
of the state.   And you think ranting about absolute property rights can
defend a
monopoly.


> > > Yes, you do have that right, even though the Canadian government
> > > (government...the usurper of freedom...remember that) has taken it away.
> > > You are morally justified, though you'll get thrown in jail for it (the
> > > same as Microsoft will be punished by the state for doing morally
justified
> > > but illegal actions).
> >
> > Well now we have some progress -- you now recognize the LAW
>
> In the case of anti-trust, I've been recognizing the invalidity OF THE LAW
> repeatedly.

No Sir.
You deny the concept of monopoly and monopoly power.   Your examples equate a
small
company's market power with a monopoly's power.  The tow are very different.
legal or
not  You have NOT accepted the idea of monopoly power.  That's a corrupt
argument.  Ms
has acquired monopoly power and you deny it has any.  That's not arguing
against the
law.


> > A gun is measureable.  Monopoly power is measurable.
>
> Monopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.

Poor boy.  You have to argue against the law - not that the law is not valid
to MS.
MS is called a monopoly under the law.  If the argument is that MS is not a
monopoly
then the laws still stand.

> Measuring the monopoly powers of Microsoft is like measuring the number of
> guns on the head of a pin.  There are none.

Guns exist and are powerful but legal to own.   That is the defense of gun
ownership.
No-one denies their power or quibbles over their definition of a gun least
they become
incredible and foolish.   Monopolies exist and are powerful.  Deny they exist
and deny
MS is a monopoly and you become incredible and foolish.  Lies never help a
cause.
Logic and reason - accept a vocabulary and fight for your cause with ideas.
Accept the
legal definition of monopoly and defend MS.  Deny the definition and remain
the
irrelevant fool.

> You have refused to recognize the phenomena of a monopoly and monopoly

> > power.
>
> I will not lie and say that Microsoft is a monopoly.
> I will not lie and say that Microsoft can use monopoly power.

Lies and more lies.


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From: josco@ibm.net                                     11-Dec-99 15:05:02
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
> <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
>
> > Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
> >> here.
> >
> >Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
> >can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
> >prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
> >you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
> >the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
> >that you do NOT use that product.
>
> It's the Bill Clinton approach.

And of Bill Gates.

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        11-Dec-99 21:33:05
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Making labels with Wordpro

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

I'm trying to create address labels with WordPro, but can't find an easy
way to do it. Has anyone come across a stylesheet, macro or whatever
to print stuff out onto Avery labels?

I saw a Label template but can't work out what it has to do with labels...

--
John

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: abrahams@sparc.isl.net                            11-Dec-99 16:48:21
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Making labels with Wordpro

From: "Lionel C. Abrahams" <abrahams@sparc.isl.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 21:33:11 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:

>I'm trying to create address labels with WordPro, but can't find an easy
>way to do it. Has anyone come across a stylesheet, macro or whatever
>to print stuff out onto Avery labels?
>
>I saw a Label template but can't work out what it has to do with labels...
>
>--
>John

John,
You are on the right track! Open the label.mwp template.
You will be presented with a list of labels. If you have an Avery
label #
just pick it out of the list. If not choose the one that matches
the label you
have (i.e. 10 rows of 3 columns on a 8.5 x 11 sheet) and open it.
You will be presented with a the appropriate sheet (page).  Just
fill out
as appropriate and print

Hope this help
...Posted with PMINews 2.00.1200
   using OS/2 WARP4 @FP12




  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers
==-----

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bstephan@redshift.com                             11-Dec-99 13:32:03
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: bstephan@redshift.com

In
<xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fml8jl0.pminews@news.pacbell.net>,
on 12/11/99 
   at 12:57 PM, "Kim Cheung"
<kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> said:

>I just got my from Pac Bell.   They came in, put the
>spiltter downstair at the D-Mark, came to the office, put
>an external DSL modem, runs a 2-pair phone cable into the
>modem, and a 10-baseT cable to my 10-baseT hub.    That was
>it.   I bought up TCPCFG2, fill in the Static IP address,
>the DNS server, the backup DNS server and so forth.  
>Reboot.   They checked to see that we are pinking and left.  
>No trouble using it thereafter.    Of course, now, we're
>busy putting in a firewall.

Did they do all that while you were running OS/2 or did you
have to boot to Windows for them? 


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bob Stephan bstephan@redshift.com or BobStephan@compuserve.com
  Happily using OS/2 Warp on the Central California Coast.
   http://www.redshift.com/~bstephan
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: operagost@e-mail.com                              11-Dec-99 22:12:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Networking a HP LaserJet4...

From: "Stephen Eickhoff (remove the - to reply)" <operagost@e-mail.com>

You can configure printers from any browser using WebJetAdmin. However, you
escape the fact that will probably need a really powerful server running
Windows NT to host it.

By the way, I saw some comments in this thread about DLC. You can use DLC to
print to JetDirects, but you must add the 802.2 protocol in MPTS to do so. I
recommend against it on either OS/2 or Windows NT. Instead, on NT install
TCP/IP Printing support and set up an LPD port. Use "raw" as the service name.
With OS/2, I've found it easiest to use JetAdmin and enable only TCP/IP. Then
I go into printer properties and add a new HP Network port for that printer.

James Moe wrote:
> 
> "Dave {Reply Address in.sig}" wrote:
> >
> > >>
> > >  As I recall, HP is discontinuing ALL versions of JetAdmin, not just
> > >os/2. The replacement is WebJetAdmin.
> > >
> > Which is not supported in an OS/2-only version as far as I can tell,
> > you need the NT server stuff.
> >
>   I have WebJetAdmon running on my computer at work which is os/2.
> 
> --
> 
> sma at rtd dot com
> Remove ".spam-not" for email

-- 
----------------------------------
         Stephen Eickhoff
          Havertown, PA
----------------------------------

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From: iridtacw@ssimicro.com                             11-Dec-99 15:06:28
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Mysterious File

From: "Phillip A. Hawke" <iridtacw@ssimicro.com>

Thanks to all who answered my bootup order question. And now one more: what
is the file EA_DATA.SF.?

Phil


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From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 17:03:28
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 20:50:16 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=>> No it isn't.  Microsoft have made it very difficult for anyone to go 
=>> in a direction that Microsoft aren't happy with.
=>
=>
=>How did they do this?
=>
=>None of the responses to this question, by the way, have been anything other
=>than a collection of businesses exercising their property rights

MS, uh, updated their APIs. MSDOS, and Windows itself. Suddenly, programs
that ran fine on earlier versions crashed mysteriously. This didn't bother
people with the older versions of MSDOS and Windows, but newbies felt that
the software which was supposedly MS compatible was a piece of shit, and
bought the MS stuff instead (which wasn't a pices of shit, either, but it
warn't any better!)

OSs are too important to be left to the whim of a company to, uh. modify
whenever they want. The kernel must be standardised, the APIs must be
standardised, etc. There was the opportunity via the Power PC's RISC chip the
opportunity to standardise on hardware-OS-software interafce that would
enable anyone to write OSs and software to run on any machine. Of course,
that would shift the focus of compettiion back to where ir belongs, the
quality of the product. And in that situation. MS stuff would turn out to be
about as good and bad as any other other company's product. We also need
standrads for document and graphics formats so any software on any platform
could use any datafile. We're getting, there, slowly. Too slowly, because of
MS's (and IBM's) shenanigans, IMO.

It worked for cars (eg, placement of the pedals!), so why shouldn't it work
for computers?




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From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 17:15:19
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Mysterious File

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:06:57 -0700, Phillip A. Hawke wrote:

=>Thanks to all who answered my bootup order question. And now one more: what
=>is the file EA_DATA.SF.?
=>
=>Phil
=>
=>

The collection of Extended Attributes for the files on that disk. Most of
these (eg, the icon) are recorded autimatically. Others are under your
control, eg, the Association(s) (which you set or change via the Properties
menu.)




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From: greywolf@onlink.net                               11-Dec-99 17:10:15
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net>

On 11 Dec 1999 20:45:20 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

=>Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
=>> "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
=>> number of CPU sold.
=>
=>Sure.  Microsoft has that right.

On what grounds? What moral justification was there for insisting that they
had a right to a cut one every CPU sold, whether or not it was sold with
Windows?

They had a right to make a deal with an OEM where the OEM would offer its
pre-loaded machines only with Windows; but they did not have a right to
demand a payment for a Windows OS if the OEM sold a blank CPU (with or
without another OS to be installed by the user) - yet that's what they
demanded!

The US Justice Department a desist agreement for this bit of immorality, BTW.
MS didn't even hint at going to court about it. Thye knew it was illegal --
and it's immoral too.




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From: alDOTdunsmuir@sympatico.ca                        11-Dec-99 22:32:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: ADSL how to under OS/2?

From: "Al Dunsmuir" <alDOTdunsmuir@sympatico.ca>

I'm in Ontario, just to the east of Toronto.

It is just standard OS/2 TCP/IP, plus a development version of the
Injoy Firewall that has a new plugin that adds PPPoE support.

Bjarne didn't have access to a PPPoE server for this effort, so he
relied on our small group of beta testers to do traces,  and iterate
through the test versions.   For the last few weeks, I've been using 
the InJoy PPPoE as my primary connection to the internet.

Bjarne is finishing off the web page and docs, and should be
releasing the new firewall level soon.  At that time, setting up 
access will be trivial - 20 minutes, with GUI customization (plus
the basic OS/2 LAN install/setup).

At that time, installation will not require a Windows PC.  I selected 
the self-install route, so they simply shipped the package (with a
D-Link LAN card, and 1Mbit Nortel ADSL modem) to my home.  
I downloaded the OS/2 NDIS driver from D-Link's US web site.
It would have been a simple matter of using the DHCP support
built into Warp's TCP/IP, but it was simply a case of bad timing.  
Sympatico picked that exact weekend to switch my area over to
PPPoE-only access. 

That first weekend, I did install the dreaded  Access Manager 
software on my wife's Win98 machine so she could use the ADSL
connection.  It just took a few swaps of Ethernet cables near my hub.
Now that Bjarne has got everything working, that's no longer required.
I continued on with my old ibm.net (async) access, but will discontinue
that account now that I have full speed access.

Al

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:36:53 GMT, Mr. Ho Ke Dokie wrote:

>-Bjarne Jensen is putting the finishing touches on a PPPoE plugin for
>-his the InJoy Firewall product.   I've been a happy alpha/beta tester
>-over the last month.   It has been VERY nice to use the  sympatico 
>-newserver over ADSL - my best combined (up+down) data rate so
>-far has been 210KBps (>1680Kbps)! 
>
>
>Wow. I see you will be on sympatico as well, which province may I ask.
>
>Could you please list the programs you use for the ADSL setup under OS/2?
>
>I get a new HD next week and I then have two days to get it up and running
>before the high speed hookup.  They'll do the windoze setup but I want OS/2.










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From: mthiv@znetrover.com                               11-Dec-99 22:39:02
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 19:49:08
Subj: Re: Microtek X6EL SCSI Scanner(scanner not ready)

From: mthiv@znetrover.com (Martin T.)

Hi!

I use the demo of CFM TWAIN to test the installation. So now after 
several reboot, the system hangs before I can see the screen of the 
bios. Wow! I removed the scsi card and after the computer boot 
normally. This week I'll try the Adaptec scsi card on a second 
computer to see what it will happen. For now I put the scanner in the 
box -:) 

Thanks Again Bob, take care.

No-spam delete the 'z'

Martin Thivierge
Quebec, Canada

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From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              11-Dec-99 23:15:13
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> wrote:

> In the following brief explanation, I am assuming that rational
> mind = reason, create = discover or invent.

Your "brief explanation" totally avoids the issue:  namely
what is the faculty which permits humans to discover or to
invent new physical existents.

> Choices are not created, they are apprehended (for this you need
> imagination), and when you make a choice it is your emotions
> working, not your reason.

Emotions are not a means of cognition;  they are the instantaneous
output that your mind calculates in response to the perception of
an object, and are governed by two factors:  first, your
understanding and identification of what the object IS, and second,
your evaluation of the object (ie - whether it is good or evil,
desirable or undesirable, right or wrong, etc. ) - both of which are
a product of the conceptual integrations and differentiations you
have performed.

Consider the emotional reactions that various humans would have to
a film depicting a new surgical procedure, for example:  a surgeon
might experience joy at the sight;  a 17th century puritan might
experience outrage at the thought of "God's creation" being altered;
a garbage collector from Podunk might experience boredom;  a voodoo
witch doctor might experience sheer terror at the sight of the moving
picture itself.  They are all human beings, they all possess the
faculty of reason, but their emotional reactions vary greatly
depending on the content of their minds (ie - on HOW they have used
their faculty of reason).

> Reason cannot impel anyone to action; only emotions can.

Emotions are the handmaiden of reason.  Reality permits no
contradictions, and the supposed "division" between reason and
emotion is as invalid as any other such metaphysical contradiction.

Chris J Delanoy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    11-Dec-99 23:47:23
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:01:26, Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:

> InnoVal is to be applauded for their continued devotion to
> OS/2, the OS/2 user and the OS/2 community at large.
> 
> You want to kill off OS/2?  Take a look at what you are
> personally doing to help do that today.

Here we go again. Go away Tim.

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    11-Dec-99 23:48:22
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:22:23, isaacl@sonics.ece.ubc.ca (e-frog) wrote:

> That's about as classy an exit as you can get. You mean, you
> would actually want a quiet exit? Leave you hanging with no
> notice?

That's what happened with their newsreader.

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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From: trosnau@telusplanet.net                           12-Dec-99 00:27:29
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Tim Rosnau <trosnau@telusplanet.net>

This is really intelligent coming from a guy who is in favor of
union busting.

"Steven C. Britton" wrote:
> 
> Only a fascist would try to harm another because they have a different
> opinion.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> What have YOU done to bust a union today?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Work better: Work union-free.
> 
> Steven C. Britton
> Calgary
> 
> www.cadvision.com/sbritton

-- 
             *
             ^
            ^ ^       Have a cool Yule!
           ^ ^ ^
          ^ ^ ^ ^
         ^ ^ ^ ^ ^      Tim Rosnau
             |           Edmonton Alberta Canada

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From: larso@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca                         12-Dec-99 00:34:10
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: White Thunder <larso@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>

"Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> wrote:
> On 11 Dec 1999 21:07:36 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> =>I'm not misreading.  Bob's attempt to "blame" the extra cost on
> =>Michelin wasn't valid.
>
> Bob's arithmetic was (prices for argument's sake only)
>
> Jeep with Michelin tires = $25,000, of which $300 is for tires Bob
> doesn't want.
>
> Range Rover with other tires = $30,000, of which $300 (more or less)
> is for tires he does want.

How is the $300 for tires he wants?  It isn't.  The $5,000 is for the
extra cost of the Range Rover.  Again, you are trying to make it seem
like Michelin is reponsible for making Range Rovers $5,000 more...or
$300 more.  And NEITHER is the case.

> So to get the tires he does want, he has to pay about $5,000 more

No, he's paying $5,000 more because he's getting a different product.

> There's another alternative, buy the Jeep, junk the tires, and
> replace them.  Cheaper, but still involving wasted money.

I guess if its that big a deal, AND if there are only these two choices
available in all the universe, that's what he'll do.

> A customer should not be put in this position.

If you and other customers believe it that much, customers will not be
put in that position.  Because none of you will support the business
until it removes this position.

> Customers wishes must take precedence over business's desires.

Forcing businesses to do something they don't want to do isn't
desirable in any way, shape, or form.

Your a Weibo Ludwig waiting to happen.  You don't believe that the
right to property extends beyond yourself.

NOBODY has the right to buy what they wish.  They only have the right
to buy that which others wish to sell them.

What you want is for the business (and by extension, anybody in the
world selling something) to become a servent: there to take orders as
given to them from the person wishing to buy.

Again, what you want is for consumers to control other people's
property, at the expense of the rights of those who currently own (and
by happenstance would be interested in selling) it.

> Always excepting the customer's wish to pay too little for the
> product. I reiterate: business is a relationship, with
> mutual but not symmetrical responsibilities.)

This notion of yours of consumers having rights that businesses do not
is a slap in the face of any notion of equity or freedom.  Your demand
that a company provide a product while not having the right to set the
terms of sale is horrific at best.

> And just because I put that last remark in brackets doesn't mean it's
> parenthetical. It's essential to the argument. If you can't accept it
> as a moral truth, there's no point talking to you anymore.

Well, I don't accept the loss of control on the part of a business as
anything approaching "moral", so then by all means go piss up a rope
and inhale the steam.

> You continually talk as if no one had any responsibilities to anyone.

If a business has responsibility to the buyer, does the buyer similarly
have the same responsibilities to the business?

In that case, you are hereby REQUIRED to go off and purchase 3
Microsoft products at the price listed on the box.  You are failing to
live up to your responsibility to provide Microsoft employees with
money that they need.

If you find it insane that you should HAVE to buy something from
somebody, how can you turn around and say that they HAVE to sell
something to you?

--
Lars Ormberg
larso@ualberta.ca
http://go.to/larso/

"In the Sahara sun I wanna be the one that's gonna come and take you,
make you"


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dboultr@spamfree.erols.com                        12-Dec-99 00:49:05
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: dboultr@spamfree.erols.com

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:48:45, rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) wrote:

> That's what happened with their newsreader.

Geez, Bob!  What's this all about??  They knew their newsreader was a 
piece of crap, pretty much beyond saving.  There were at the time, and
have been subsequently, a ton of newsreader choices for OS/2 users.  
We didn't loose anything when they gave up that market.

I haven't looked at MR2/ICE 2.0 yet, but PostRoad Mailer is still 
arguably the best mail reader we have.  I paid for it once, long long 
ago, and I've gotten two major releases for free.  I still use PRM and
am happy with it.  I'm pretty sure I got the newsreader for free too. 

I'll agree with Dan that his customer support for individual users 
wasn't the greatest, but I don't recall having occasion to use it 
since 2.0 came out.  On the other hand, Dan and Innoval tried to do 
good things for OS/2 and several of the results are first class.  
NetExtra was a fine product for its time.  But ultimately, when fine 
products don't pay the bills, you have to do what you have to do.

Innoval doesn't make my OS/2 Hall of Shame.  I wish them well, and 
would buy their software again should the occasion arise.

Doug Boulter

To reply by e-mail, remove the obvious spam traps from the address

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From: mtve@hal-pc.org                                   11-Dec-99 17:57:00
  To: abrahams@sparc.isl.net                            11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Making labels with Wordpro

To: "Lionel C. Abrahams" <abrahams@sparc.isl.net>
From: Marvin Volz <mtve@hal-pc.org>

It's easier than that if you use Lotus 123.
From a spreedsheet with a table of names, addresses, etc. just "Create"
"Mailing
labels" and follow the instructions. An Approach db will be created which you
can
edit - fonts, etc. and you pick Avery label type.

MTV



"Lionel C. Abrahams" wrote:

> On 11 Dec 1999 21:33:11 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:
>
> >I'm trying to create address labels with WordPro, but can't find an easy
> >way to do it. Has anyone come across a stylesheet, macro or whatever
> >to print stuff out onto Avery labels?
> >
> >I saw a Label template but can't work out what it has to do with labels...
> >
> >--
> >John
>
> John,
> You are on the right track! Open the label.mwp template.
> You will be presented with a list of labels. If you have an Avery
> label #
> just pick it out of the list. If not choose the one that matches
> the label you
> have (i.e. 10 rows of 3 columns on a 8.5 x 11 sheet) and open it.
> You will be presented with a the appropriate sheet (page).  Just
> fill out
> as appropriate and print
>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: uno@40th.com                                      11-Dec-99 23:32:01
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: uno@40th.com (uno@40th.com)

Kim Cheung? (kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com?) wrote (Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13
>First of all, it's not "Single Input Queue" - and it's not an OS/2 thing,...

System input queue according to redbooks, but people make up
all sorts of things...like:

>"synchronously" -...

 '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
 Corne1 Huth     http://40th.com/      Bullet database engines/servers

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From: mcbrides@erols.com                                11-Dec-99 17:16:24
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)

I am and have been a happy user of cdrecord, but I find I'm lacking some
expertese that I wish I had. Would someone answer some short questions to
help me along?

First off, I'm not able to create multisession CD's. I am able to write new
data to an old cd, but the old information is lost in the process. I have
edited os2cdrom.dmd and added my drive manufacturer name, but it behaves no
different. Would any of you guys/gals that are successful in creating a
multisession disk, holding data, please detail your process?

Secondly, what's the big deal with DAO? I'm able to use it, but what's the
purpose for it? Can you offer up some real-time samples of how and when you
do use it?

Thirdly, I've been trying like the dog to pipe the mkisofs output directly to
cdrecord without any succes what-so-ever. Can you share your methods with me
and possibly a lot of others also?

Anyone? Thanks in advance.


--

*******************************************************************************

*                                  OS/2 ????                                 
*
*                              YOU AREN'T ALONE!                             
*
*               http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.html         
*
*******************************************************************************


/----------------------------------------\
| From the desktop of: Jerome D. McBride |
|         mcbrides@erols.com             |
\----------------------------------------/

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From: mcbrides@erols.com                                11-Dec-99 17:26:00
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)

In article <384FD6A9.A4D889A@isomedia.com>,
"David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com> wrote:
>
>
>skrise@attglobal.net wrote:
>>
>> Just a query out of the blue.
>>
>> While reading "OS/2 Programming for Dummies" (I guess you
>> know what that says about me), the author mentioned that
>> in the next release of Warp (which would have been Warp
>> 4 at that time) that the Single Input Queue problem (where
>> an application locks up the entire UI due to some arcana
>> that I am unfamiliar with) would be fixed.
>>
>> I know it wasn't (for Warp 4, at least).  Is this something
>> that IBM is still promising to address?
>
>This was an issue with Warp 3 which used to lockup due to this. In OS/2
>v4, IBM made other changes that made it a non-issue.  The SIQ is still
>there but rarely causes problems anymore on my system.  I cannot even
>remember when I last saw a lockup due to this--maybe 2 years?  I think
>that IBM was/is trying to maintain compatibility with OS/2
>applications.  I'm not sure but I think that WSEB is similar to OS/2 v4
>in this way.

I just saw that "non-issue" pop-up yesterday on my Warp Server for eBusiness
powered computer. Really shocked me! :') As advanced as WSEB is, it's
basically
the same old OS/2 engine underneath.

Actually, that mentioned SIQ fix first came out for Warp 3.0 in fixpak#17. The
same fix is implemented in Warp 4.0 and now in Warp Server for eBusiness.
Although this is described as a fix, it's more of a work around for probably
the worst part of OS/2's basic design.

The SIQ is still "alive and well", just monitored a bit better... :')

--

*******************************************************************************

*                                  OS/2 ????                                 
*
*                              YOU AREN'T ALONE!                             
*
*               http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.html         
*
*******************************************************************************


/----------------------------------------\
| From the desktop of: Jerome D. McBride |
|         mcbrides@erols.com             |
\----------------------------------------/

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From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk                     12-Dec-99 00:05:25
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk (Glen)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:50:16, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Glen D write:
> > On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:29:25, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:
> 
> > > > It's very easy to say that when you're not on "the recieving end" of 
> > > > Microsoft's busines tactics.
> > > 
> > > It's easy when you are, too.  Because its just as true.
> > 
> > No it isn't.  Microsoft have made it very difficult for anyone to go 
> > in a direction that Microsoft aren't happy with.
> 
> 
> How did they do this?
> 
> None of the responses to this question, by the way, have been anything other
> than a collection of businesses exercising their property rights.
> 
Obviously Microsoft doesn't have the right to do what it's been doing,
otherwise the FoF would have reflected this.

> 
> >                                                       That makes it very 
> > difficult for someone to abandon Windows, as you suggested above, 
> > because the alternative is (virtually) nothing.
> 
> Virtually nothing isn't nothing.
> 
I never said it was.  If all your personal belongings disappear 
leaving you with virtually nothing are you going to be happy?

> There is no guarantee that Mr. NoWindows is going to find it as easy or as
> cheap to buy a computer than Mr. Windows is.  That's the nature of life.

It's not the nature of life at all.  This is the computing industry 
we're talking about not the universe and all things within it.

>  If
> you want to buy a rare CD or piece of art, you'll have to hunt for it while
> a person wanting Britney Spears or Dogs Playing Poker will pick up what they
> want in a breeze.
> 
OS/2, Linux, BeOS...etc are not rare pieces of art.  They're pieces of
software, easily duplicated and willfully distributed to anyone who 
wants them.  I do believe IBM intended OS/2 to bring in large amounts 
of revenue by being on as many PCs as possible, not to be put in a 
glass case and stared at.  It *should* be easy to pick up alternate 
OSs at my local software retailer but it isn't, and it has nothing to 
do with Windows being far better more to do with the demands Microsoft
made of OEMs.  An OEM could ignore these demands but they'd lose a lot
of money that way.  Microsoft used their market position to remove the
competition.  They didn't remove the competition by providing cheaper 
or better products than the rest.

> > > >                                   For Win users I imagine Microsoft's 
> > > > popularity is a wonderful thing
> > > 
> > > It's an irrelevent thing.  Microsoft software fulfills their needs.
> > 
> > Popularity is very important.  It's what convinces a software company 
> > to develop for your OS.  If Microsoft's popularity was to disappear 
> > you'd see a lot less Windows software, whether it fulfills your needs 
> > or not.
> 
> If Microsoft's popularity was to disappear than it was fulfilling a lot
> fewer needs.
> 
So imagine the terror you'd feel as Microsoft CEO if it became common 
knowledge that Windows is being out-performed by most of its 
competitors.  You'd work very hard to make sure the other runners 
never see the light of day.  Or, of course, you could make sure that 
Microsoft products get improved exponentially but that appears to be 
more difficult.

> 
> -- 
> Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
> mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
> The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/
> 

Glen
-<remove Z from my e-mail Address>-

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From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk                     12-Dec-99 00:15:17
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Mysterious File

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk (Glen)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:06:57, "Phillip A. Hawke" 
<iridtacw@ssimicro.com> wrote:

> Thanks to all who answered my bootup order question. And now one more: what
> is the file EA_DATA.SF.?
> 
> Phil
> 
It contains extended attributes for files located on that particular 
FAT drive. 


Glen
-<remove Z from my e-mail Address>-

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From: whonea@codenet.net                                11-Dec-99 17:58:06
  To: All                                               11-Dec-99 21:20:14
Subj: Re: Y2K Woes

From: whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea)

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:20:16, doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug 
Bissett) wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:52:56, jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net wrote:
> 
> > After applying Peer Fp IP08412 to bring my Warp 4 Peer up to date
> > I discovered that it no longer made connections automatically on
> > startup.  When I tried to back out of the FP, I sarted getting traps
> > on boot when the WPS was loading, so I had to put it back in.
> > 
> > Fortunately, with some further effort, I discovered that I could use
> > the NET USE command in my start up file to initiate the connections,
> > and it works fine now--but it took a few hours to discover the problem,
> > and figure it all out.
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > Fred Springfield                       for e-mail remove 'xxx'
> > Plymouth, MN
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> 
> I think that started at the IP8407 fix level. You have discovered the 
> EASY fix for the problem. Someone, some time ago, indicated that there
> was some server setting that would fix the problem, but the Peer 
> networking does not have such a setting (at least I never found it if 
> it does exist). I just use the NET USE command to connect, and that 
> works just fine.
> 
> Hope this helps...
> ******************************
> From the PC of Doug Bissett
> doug.bissett at attglobal.net
> The " at " must be changed to "@"
> ******************************

The Connection crap started with IP08410 - 8407 was OK.  I ran into 
another wierd one when I applies the WR08620 MPTS update that you 
might tuck away.  Seems that the race condition they built the 
semaphore file for back in the 4.02 stack got  messed up and I get 
really erratic boots until I added a bunch of time-killers to 
startup.cmd.  Later backed out WR08620 since it did nothing for me 
anyway.

Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

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From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    12-Dec-99 01:58:03
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:02
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 00:49:11, dboultr@spamfree.erols.com wrote:

> > That's what happened with their newsreader.
> 
> Geez, Bob!  What's this all about??  They knew their newsreader was a 
> piece of crap, pretty much beyond saving.  There were at the time, and
> have been subsequently, a ton of newsreader choices for OS/2 users.  
> We didn't loose anything when they gave up that market.

I quite agree. But I was just answering the point made. I used it. I 
stopped using it when I got no reply to my support requests. It wasn't
good and they were right to drop it. But I NEVER (as this was my 
point) received anything to say they were doing it....as I say, it WAS
done quietly. And I paid full price for it. No regrets...I had some 
use out of it.

As far as the mailers go....I made the original post because someone 
asked why someone else was hostile about Innoval. I put forward a 
reason.

I like Post Road Mailer. I bought 2.0. I bought the upgrade to 2.5. I 
bought the upgrade to 3.0. I heard about enough early bugs in JSM to 
stop me upgrading to that. And problems with Java at the time, to be 
fair.

The problem for me wa support. In the early days I got a good response
and even a feature I wanted, in some form. But I reported a bug early 
in the life of 2.5 (a violation of SMTP and POP3, both). I never even 
got a response. It was never fixed. Not polite. Even an email saying 
they hadn't the resources would have been OK. I really appreciate 
their problems.

I bought NetExtra too. And the upgrades. All of them. Despite the 
silly name of WWWatch (does it have the same connotations in the US?).
I couldn't have supported Innoval more, without a charitable donation!

I think it's a shame the product line died. I have their products on 
my website to keep them alive. Amd a workround I did for the protocol 
bugs. I only wish they could have given Paul van Keep the source to 
JSM, to save him time.

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      12-Dec-99 02:11:21
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:05:05 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:

>
>
>"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
>> <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
>> >> here.
>> >
>> >Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
>> >can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
>> >prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
>> >you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
>> >the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
>> >that you do NOT use that product.
>>
>> It's the Bill Clinton approach.
>
>And of Bill Gates.


Bill Gates isn't pissing on your leg and then telling you it's
raining, but Clinton gets a blow job and says it isn't sex.
>

EBB

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     11-Dec-99 18:51:19
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:05:05 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
> >> <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
> >> >> here.
> >> >
> >> >Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
> >> >can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
> >> >prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
> >> >you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
> >> >the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
> >> >that you do NOT use that product.
> >>
> >> It's the Bill Clinton approach.
> >
> >And of Bill Gates.
>
> Bill Gates isn't pissing on your leg and then telling you it's
> raining, but Clinton gets a blow job and says it isn't sex.

No one has pissed on my leg -- I'm confused by your baby talk  metaphors.

Gates has bickered over the meaning of common words while underoath.  He's
professed to not understanding e-mails he has written and not understood
those to which he replied.  He insists MS is not  a monopoly and there is
no PC market.  Sick isn't it !


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From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 02:49:01
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 11 Dec 1999 05:32:31 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> =>Harming _you_ by only selling you the product you wanted under a condition
> =>you didn't want.  If you are so upset by it, then don't get it.  If you
want
> =>the Learjet that bad, I guess you have to pay the price they want.  Its
> =>their right to set the price they are willing to sell for.  Price happens
to
> =>be on a block of property that is "all or nothing" then you'll either buy
> =>all or nothing.  Capice?
> 
> I'm not complaining about the price of the Learjet. Not at all. I want it!
> I'm willing to pay for it! I came to Learjet with the cheque in my hot
little
> hand, all ready to deal! Or did you miss that part of my post?

No, I got it.

> I'm not willing to pay for the other plane, that's all.

Then you're not gonna get your jet.

> Why should I?

Because that was a condition of sale.  You have to agree to a seller's
conditions of sale, same as the seller has to agree to your conditions of
sale, and if either of you doesn't like the conditions being asked by the
other, you don't have to agree to the sale.  Go home.

>                                                                       And
why
> should it be considered moral for a company to try to unload something on me
> by tieing it to the product that I want to buy from them?

Because they have the right to do with their product as they wish.  If they
will only sell a jet with a helicopter, then THEY WILL ONLY SELL A JET WITH
A HELICOPTER.  You have no right to force them to sell you something
unilaterally under terms you agree with and they don't.  Likewise, they
can't force you to buy something unilaterally either.  That's why true
monopolies, government-created ones, are so evil.

> Seems to me you like the idea of the power to force people to buy
> all-or-nothing.

It's not force!  How dense do you have to be.  They offer you a choice.  You
take it, one way or the other.

Say we do the reverse: you want the Learjet for $2 million and want them to
throw in the helicopter for fifty thousand more.  They don't want to sell
you the helicopter.  If this is the only way you'll buy the Learjet, they
just won't sell it I guess.  Of course, you're clearly "forcing" them to
sell it, and they can take you to court, I suppose.  After all, it's very
immoral of you to not buy their Learjet as is for the price they ask.

>                  That makes you not only a fool, but a first-rate prick as
> well. Sorry, I misspoke myself. A thrid-rate prick.

Well, that's about the level of intelligent debate I expected from an
absolute moron such as yourself.

> Business is a relationship between supplier and customer. A business is not
> an entity unto itself. It needs customers, and therefore has
responsibilities
> towards them.

And if they don't meet those responsibilities, then the market will punish
them.  Your cries for Big Daddy Government are pathetic snivelling at best.

>               The customer has a responsibility to the business, too -- to
> pay a fair price

A fair price in a market is set by the complex interweavings of needs of
business and consumer.  If the price isn't fair, you don't buy it (either
because you wouldn't pay it or the business wouldn't sell at that price).

>                      (else the business can't stay in business, etc. You can
> figure out the rest of the argument yourself. No, on 2nd thought, you can't

A fucking eight year old could figure it out.  Too much older than that, the
kid will realize its a load of crap.

> Your problem is that you think property rights are the only rights.

They are the fundamental basis of any other right.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: nospam@savebandwidth.invalid                      12-Dec-99 01:29:26
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Mysterious File

From: nospam@savebandwidth.invalid       (John Thompson)

In <944950286.979255@pollux.ssimicro.com>, "Phillip A. Hawke"
<iridtacw@ssimicro.com> writes:

>Thanks to all who answered my bootup order question. And now one more: what
>is the file EA_DATA.SF.?

"EA DATA. SF" is the container for OS/2's extended attributes on 
a FAT volume.  Don't mess with it, especially if that's your boot
drive.  You won't find "EA DATA. SF" on an HPFS volume because 
ea's are handled in the file's fnode and therefore don't need a 
separate container.

-John (John.Thompson@attglobal.net)

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From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 02:32:05
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Glen write:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:50:16, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

> > None of the responses to this question, by the way, have been anything
other
> > than a collection of businesses exercising their property rights.
> > 
> Obviously Microsoft doesn't have the right to do what it's been doing,
> otherwise the FoF would have reflected this.

That the U.S. Government takes this right away doesn't mean it exists.  You
have to realize that something being legal doesn't make it moral, and that
the government giving or taking something doesn't confer or remove a status
as a "right".

> > >                                                       That makes it very 

> > > difficult for someone to abandon Windows, as you suggested above, 
> > > because the alternative is (virtually) nothing.
> > 
> > Virtually nothing isn't nothing.
> > 
> I never said it was.  If all your personal belongings disappear 
> leaving you with virtually nothing are you going to be happy?

You're trying to compare a situation where small but not zero is just as
acceptible as very large, with another situation where any size other than
zero is reprehensible.

> > There is no guarantee that Mr. NoWindows is going to find it as easy or as
> > cheap to buy a computer than Mr. Windows is.  That's the nature of life.
> 
> It's not the nature of life at all.  This is the computing industry 
> we're talking about not the universe and all things within it.

The computer industry, last time I checked, was in the Universe.

The computer industry, last time I checked, was an industry.  Industry works
best when government backs off.

> >                                                                         
If
> > you want to buy a rare CD or piece of art, you'll have to hunt for it
while
> > a person wanting Britney Spears or Dogs Playing Poker will pick up what
they
> > want in a breeze.
> > 
> OS/2, Linux, BeOS...etc are not rare pieces of art.

No, but likewise they are something that only appeals to a small group of
people.

Not surpisingly, this small group of people aren't going to find it in every
store.  Nor _should_ they, because I doubt the stores want to waste their
time.

> glass case and stared at.  It *should* be easy to pick up alternate 
> OSs at my local software retailer but it isn't

No, it isn't.

Why *should* it?  Why *should* you be able to get a product whereever you
want, regardless of whether or not somebody wants to get it and/or sell it?

> made of OEMs.  An OEM could ignore these demands but they'd lose a lot
> of money that way.

Yep.  Unless they wanted to appeal to the niche market.

> > If Microsoft's popularity was to disappear than it was fulfilling a lot
> > fewer needs.
> > 
> So imagine the terror you'd feel as Microsoft CEO if it became common 
> knowledge that Windows is being out-performed by most of its 
> competitors.

Yeah...or the manager of the Internet Explorer project team.  Netscape, as I
recall, was beating it in both quality and useage.  So Microsoft made
Internet Explorer more accessible.

>                   You'd work very hard to make sure the other runners 
> never see the light of day.

Yep.  Any business would.  And so long as they behaved, they'd be justified.
Microsoft, it should be said, behaved.  It didn't force anybody to do
anything that they didn't want to do.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 02:57:09
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 11 Dec 1999 20:45:20 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> =>Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
> =>> "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
> =>> number of CPU sold.
> =>
> =>Sure.  Microsoft has that right.
> 
> On what grounds?

That when they sold Windows, it was in a contract.  The contract called for
Microsoft to do things.  The contract called for the OEM to do things too.

The OEM had just as much right to place demands on Microsoft before THEY
would sign the contract.

>                What moral justification was there for insisting that they
> had a right to a cut

They asked for a cut.  They got it when the OEM signed on the dotted line.

It's like a movie actor signing a contract for a film and demanding a cut of
the gate.  Or a pay or play contract.  Or naked women in his dressing room.
(Or the studio demanding him to show his ass, or stay out of legal trouble
for the year following the release, etc. etc. etc.)

>                       one every CPU sold, whether or not it was sold with
> Windows?

If you are selling hand-quilted kleenex box covers at a Farmer's Market, and
I ask for 10% of what you make, you can always say no.

But if I ask for 10% of what you make, and in return I feature your
hand-quilted product in a store catalogue?

What makes you think I have a right to a cut of your profits?  Well, I asked
for the ability to get a cut in our agreement...which you agreed to...which
is why it's called an 'agreement'.

> They had a right to make a deal with an OEM where the OEM would offer its
> pre-loaded machines only with Windows; but they did not have a right to
> demand a payment for a Windows OS if the OEM sold a blank CPU (with or
> without another OS to be installed by the user) - yet that's what they
> demanded!

Microsoft can ask for anything.  If its too much, the OEM won't sign.

They had the right to make any deal with the OEM that the OEM agreed to.
The OEM had the right to make any deal with Microsoft that Microsoft agreed
to.  What if the OEM had asked that in return for MS getting a cut on sales
of non-MS-equipped computers, Microsoft sold MMS products to the OEM at a
low rate?  Would that be okay?  Why the fuck not?

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 03:31:12
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Joseph write:
> Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> > > A business is a property.
> >
> > Yes.  And its not yours the consumer's property.
> 
> No doubt.
> But I have a business and your business is hurting mine.  My god - how do we
> resolve that problem if property rights are so absolute?

It's pretty easy.

How is my business hurting yours?  By being more successful?  In that case,
you either get better or die.

> > In the case of anti-trust, I've been recognizing the invalidity OF THE LAW
> > repeatedly.
> 
> No Sir.
> You deny the concept of monopoly and monopoly power. 

I deny Microsoft as an example of a monopoly.

And as a result, I attack the stupid anti-trust law that rules it such.

> Your examples equate a small company's market power with a monopoly's power.

I equate the right of a company to act, without deciding that a large
company is denied a right that a small one is not denied.

> You have NOT accepted the idea of monopoly power.  That's a corrupt
argument.
> MS has acquired monopoly power and you deny it has any.

I deny that MS has monopoly power, because you would assumably have to be a
monopoly to have monopoly power.  Microsoft is not a monopoly.

> > Monopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.
> 
> Poor boy.  You have to argue against the law - not that the law is not valid
> to MS.  MS is called a monopoly under the law. 

Yes.  But Microsoft is not a monopoly.  When a law calls a non-monopoly a
monopoly, it is clearly the law which is severely at fault.

> If the argument is that MS is not a monopoly then the laws still stand.

No, because the laws refer to businesses like Microsoft.  Actual monopolies
are still protected, seeing as how governments themselves protect them.

> > Measuring the monopoly powers of Microsoft is like measuring the number of
> > guns on the head of a pin.  There are none.
> 
> Guns exist and are powerful but legal to own.   That is the defense of gun
> ownership.  No-one denies their power or quibbles over their definition of a
> gun least they become incredible and foolish.

When somebody is irrationally claiming that a pen is a gun, then the
definition of one becomes important.

Anti-trust law declares that a pen is a gun, in other words.  And that is
purely wrong.

> Monopolies exist and are powerful.

How true.  Health service, cable service, mail service...very very horrible
evils.  And so very different than Microsoft.

> Deny they exist and deny MS is a monopoly and you become incredible and
> foolish.

Microsoft has competitors.  Makes it hard to be a monopoly already, doesn't
it?


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 03:40:29
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Forrest Gehrke write:
> Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> > Oh, Canada has this lunacy too.  Even more powerful than the antitrust
laws
> > in the U.S.  Propane companies are unable to merge for "the public good",
> > and the law explicitly states that a lack of evidence is no hindrance on
> > successful prosecution.
> 
> Thank you for finally responding. I was sure the Canadian
> government would not subscribe to the lunacy of your
> point of view, though they do emulate it very well
> for the medical discipline.

In Health Care, Canada runs a monopoly.  A _real_ monopoly.

Try to get Health Care outside the government company, you are sent to jail.
Try to provide Health Care outside the government, you are sent to jail.

Compare that with when you try to sell an operating system competing with
Microsoft...and you don't go to jail.

> > > Please look into it and report back what that law has
> > > to say about predatory pricing.
> > 
> > Oh, you mean the laws stating that any business practise is illegal?
> > 
> Of course: that's what antitrust laws usually do.

Oh, joy.

You don't find _anything_ wrong with that?



-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu                     12-Dec-99 04:28:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu

In article <385292A6.B3969AE6@WarpCity.com>,
  OS2Guy@WarpCity.com wrote:

> Unless it feeds your OS/2 pocket directly, right Steve?
> You know like where to find that elusive OS/2 fix or
> OS/2 great deal?

LOL! I certainly don't need *you* for that! I used OS/2 for 3 years
before ever reading a single newsgroup...

> If I provide information or news you want then you can't
> applaud me enough but if it isn't something to you like
> to hear then you want to kill the messenger.

Hardly... Since your memory is faulty, I'll have to remind you that
I've rarely responded positively to any of your posts...

> It is too bad you miss all the other good news and
> information Warp City offers its members.

And this is precisely why I say not to do us any "favors". You aren't
here to help OS/2 users, you're just fishing for compliments.

And if this isn't true, then the post to which I am replying would
never had been made.

--
-Steven Hunter                *OS/2 Warp 4 * |But on the other hand...|
hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu *AMD K6-2 400* |There's 5 more fingers. |


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca                           12-Dec-99 03:13:25
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:16:49, mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) 
wrote:

> I am and have been a happy user of cdrecord, but I find I'm lacking some
> expertese that I wish I had. Would someone answer some short questions to
> help me along?
> 
> First off, I'm not able to create multisession CD's. I am able to write new
> data to an old cd, but the old information is lost in the process. I have
> edited os2cdrom.dmd and added my drive manufacturer name, but it behaves no
> different. Would any of you guys/gals that are successful in creating a
> multisession disk, holding data, please detail your process?

Haven't tried, will let you know

> 
> Secondly, what's the big deal with DAO? I'm able to use it, but what's the
> purpose for it? Can you offer up some real-time samples of how and when you
> do use it?

Good question, no answer

> 
> Thirdly, I've been trying like the dog to pipe the mkisofs output directly
to
> cdrecord without any succes what-so-ever. Can you share your methods with me
> and possibly a lot of others also?
> 

Do youy have the input file name for CDRECORD specified
as a "-".

mkisofs yada yada yada | cdrecord -dev=6,0 -

note that trailing "-" lets it get the data from the pipe

--

Lorne Sunley

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 03:15:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 11 Dec 1999 20:50:16 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> =>> No it isn't.  Microsoft have made it very difficult for anyone to go 
> =>> in a direction that Microsoft aren't happy with.
> =>
> =>
> =>How did they do this?
> =>
> =>None of the responses to this question, by the way, have been anything
other
> =>than a collection of businesses exercising their property rights
> 
> MS, uh, updated their APIs. MSDOS, and Windows itself. Suddenly, programs
> that ran fine on earlier versions crashed mysteriously.

Oh.  Poor other companies.

What, did you think that Microsoft should be forced to make their OS
compatible with competitors?  It shouldn't.

Again, though, this doesn't acheive much of stopping the competitor if you
think about it.  This means that customers must now purchase a *new* copy of
Corel OfficeSuite, meaning Corel has another opportunity to sell products to
its old customers, BLAMING MICROSOFT IN THE PROCESS.  That's like a license
to print money.

>                                                         This didn't bother
> people with the older versions of MSDOS and Windows, but newbies felt that
> the software which was supposedly MS compatible was a piece of shit, and
> bought the MS stuff instead

Oh, how evil.  Microsoft designed its operating system to run its products
better than its competitors.

> OSs are too important to be left to the whim of a company

Much better left up to a government, eh?

We've seen how well governments work things.  I'll stick with private
enterprise.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net                            12-Dec-99 03:21:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Y2K Woes

From: jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net

In <JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-ujeDEg8gc6cd@anon.none.net>, whonea@codenet.net (Will
Honea) writes:
>On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:20:16, doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug 
>Bissett) wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:52:56, jspringf@xxxpro-ns.net wrote:
>> 
>> > After applying Peer Fp IP08412 to bring my Warp 4 Peer up to date
>> > I discovered that it no longer made connections automatically on
>> > startup.  When I tried to back out of the FP, I sarted getting traps
>> > on boot when the WPS was loading, so I had to put it back in.
>> > 
>> > Fortunately, with some further effort, I discovered that I could use
>> > the NET USE command in my start up file to initiate the connections,
>> > and it works fine now--but it took a few hours to discover the problem,
>> > and figure it all out.
>> > 
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------
>> > Fred Springfield                       for e-mail remove 'xxx'
>> > Plymouth, MN
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------
>> > 
>> 
>> I think that started at the IP8407 fix level. You have discovered the 
>> EASY fix for the problem. Someone, some time ago, indicated that there
>> was some server setting that would fix the problem, but the Peer 
>> networking does not have such a setting (at least I never found it if 
>> it does exist). I just use the NET USE command to connect, and that 
>> works just fine.
>> 
>> Hope this helps...
>> ******************************
>> From the PC of Doug Bissett
>> doug.bissett at attglobal.net
>> The " at " must be changed to "@"
>> ******************************
>
>The Connection crap started with IP08410 - 8407 was OK.  I ran into 
>another wierd one when I applies the WR08620 MPTS update that you 
>might tuck away.  Seems that the race condition they built the 
>semaphore file for back in the 4.02 stack got  messed up and I get 
>really erratic boots until I added a bunch of time-killers to 
>startup.cmd.  Later backed out WR08620 since it did nothing for me 
>anyway.
>
>Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

I ran 08407 for a while and remember it as being ok--at least I
did not have any connections problems. I had to rip it out after
messing with the 32 bit stacks, and having to replace everything
to get back to the 16 bit version. Since 08407 was advertised as
being Y2K compliant, I may just go back to it.

As for the 32 bit stacks, IBM ended up recommending that they only
be used with tcpip v 4.1 also installed, making the whole thing a 
different issue.  As for performance, I could not see any difference,
but it did present some unwanted side effects with Ulti Mail which
caused me to remove it.  So now I use the best of the 16 bit stacks,
and everything works OK.

And, we have the new Y2K challenge--put in the Y2K fixpacks, and
check your mileage with what ever else is included.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Fred Springfield                       for e-mail remove 'xxx'
Plymouth, MN
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Vi...               12-Dec-99 04:57:29
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

Message sender: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca (Michel A Goyette)

Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:45:20, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michel A Goyette write:
> > Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:35:59, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:
> > 
> > > As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Davies write:
> > > > Lars:
> > > > 
> > > > Yes you can buy a computer without a DOS or Windows - NOW!. A short
time
> > > > ago you could not.
> > > 
> > > You always could.  Who could stop you?
> > > 
> > > >                           Microsoft required contracts that brought
them $
> > > > Billion$ from people who did not want or need their product - because
of
> > > > restrictive contracts with M$.
> > > 
> > > But that only carries as for as the people selling computers.  Or are
you
> > > saying that every PC system that came to be was under the MS contract? 
No
> > > guys in basements?  No kids in the living room?  Ha.
> > 
> > 	Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
> > "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
> > number of CPU sold.
> 
> Sure.  Microsoft has that right.

	Not so, following their removal of this clause because of the 
anti-competition brought up by the DOJ.
 
> >                                So, you were force to buy Windows even if
you 
> > didn't want any OS on it.
> 
> You weren't forced to buy it in the first place.  The store placed
> conditions of sale on the product that you didn't like.  Then don't support
> the store.

	The problem is to find a store that didn't have this kind of 
"contract" since it would put them out of an advantageous contract 
compare to others (price of Windows higher and, hence, a higher price 
for the system).

 
> >                                It's not about having Windows or not on the
> > system but having to pay anyway the "Microsof tax" on this system.
> 
> The "Microsoft tax" is totally voluntary.  Nobody paid it that didn't have
to.

	Well, since it was a "CPU tax", everyone paid it even if Windows 
wasn't installed on the machine since the OEM Windows price was based 
on the number of CPU sold.
 
> Comparing it to real taxes, where if you don't pay you are thrown in jail or
> shot, is insane at best.

	That's why the term tax is place between apostrophes.  However, 
they're seen as taxes for people looking at alternatives. ;-)

Salut,

	Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
	ICQ #13376913
	http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: reedjd@bitsmart.com                               12-Dec-99 04:45:24
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: reedjd@bitsmart.com

Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
command line interface?  As I've spending more time working in the
command line mode I've been frustruted by no buffer to scroll back and
look at things.

I have to assue my beloved OS/2 has some way to do this.  Can anyone
help me?

-jordan


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cobol_man@my-deja.com                             12-Dec-99 04:57:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:24:03
Subj: Re: Y2K Woes

From: cobol_man@my-deja.com

Posted here:
> And, we have the new Y2K challenge--put in the Y2K fixpacks, and
> check your mileage with what ever else is included.

More laughs to the gallon.... COBOL MAN!

www.cobol-man.com   (a y2k daily toon)
COBOL-MAN: A Hero For our Times


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mktorg@hotmail.com                                12-Dec-99 14:45:03
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:36:09
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Davies <mktorg@hotmail.com>


Chris J Delanoy wrote:
> Emotions are the handmaiden of reason.  Reality permits no
> contradictions, and the supposed "division" between reason and
> emotion is as invalid as any other such metaphysical contradiction.
> 
> Chris J Delanoy

OH!

 
-- 
Bob Davies

Socialism is about the equal distribution of poverty!
Learn about Socialism - everyone needs a laugh!
http://www.worldsocialism.org/

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rsteiner@visi.com                                 11-Dec-99 23:16:09
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:36:09
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner)

This thread is not on-topic for comp.os.os2.misc, people.  Could you
please take this to comp.os.os2.advocacy or drop the comp.os.os2.*
hierarchy from the discussion entirely?

Thank you...

-- 
   -Rich Steiner  >>>--->  rsteiner@visi.com  >>>---> Bloomington, MN
     OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
      + VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
              ...going where no clusters have gone before.

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mcbrides@erols.com                                11-Dec-99 23:37:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:36:09
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)

In article <qpkdVVNoMoTk-pn2-bh2zPrzulUyk@tcpserver>,
lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley) wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:16:49, mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)
>wrote:
>
>> I am and have been a happy user of cdrecord, but I find I'm lacking some
>> expertese that I wish I had. Would someone answer some short questions to
>> help me along?
>>
>> First off, I'm not able to create multisession CD's. I am able to write new
>> data to an old cd, but the old information is lost in the process. I have
>> edited os2cdrom.dmd and added my drive manufacturer name, but it behaves no
>> different. Would any of you guys/gals that are successful in creating a
>> multisession disk, holding data, please detail your process?
>
>Haven't tried, will let you know
>

Please do. This one is really escaping me...

>>
>> Secondly, what's the big deal with DAO? I'm able to use it, but what's the
>> purpose for it? Can you offer up some real-time samples of how and when you
>> do use it?
>
>Good question, no answer
>

Hmmm...

>>
>> Thirdly, I've been trying like the dog to pipe the mkisofs output directly
to
>> cdrecord without any succes what-so-ever. Can you share your methods with
me
>> and possibly a lot of others also?
>>
>
>Do youy have the input file name for CDRECORD specified
>as a "-".
>
>mkisofs yada yada yada | cdrecord -dev=6,0 -
>
>note that trailing "-" lets it get the data from the pipe
>

Aha! So That's what my dmp was trying to tell me... I stuck a "-" in place of
the "-f filename" and... I'm streaming and piping like a fool...

Thanks!

I can't wait to see how you make out with the multisession stuff, Lorne. I'm
really interested in getting that one figured out.

--

*******************************************************************************

*                                  OS/2 ????                                 
*
*                              YOU AREN'T ALONE!                             
*
*               http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.html         
*
*******************************************************************************


/----------------------------------------\
| From the desktop of: Jerome D. McBride |
|         mcbrides@erols.com             |
\----------------------------------------/

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mcbrides@erols.com                                12-Dec-99 00:35:07
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 02:36:09
Subj: CDRECORD, MULTISESSION and editing OS2CDROM.DMD...

From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)

Ok you guys...

I've been working on tackling the creation of multisession cdroms using
warp connect, cdrecord 18a32, adaptec aha1522b and a yamaha 4416s...

The short story is, I have it working, but it's not 100% correct.

With a "box stock" Warp connect system and fixpak #40, multisession is not
possible using the above listed tools. However, it was discussed a while back
that OS2CDROM.DMD could be edited with the name "YAMAHA" overlaying one of the
other listed cdrom manufacturers and multisession would magically appear...

Well, it does to some degree, but it's not perfect.

First off, not having the source code to OS2CDROM.DMD makes it a bit difficult
to know what is going on in those tables. But I would hazard a guess that they
are a "feature support table" using oem names and specific model numbers to
switch in code so that the desired features are available to the OS. No proof
of this, but it's a strong suspicion.

Overwriting "TEXEL" with "YAMAHA" allows me to read multisession cd's with
some
minor difficulties. Namely there are garbaged directories listed at the root
level, along with the "real" directories. The garbaged ones appear to be of
totally bogus origins and writing my own multisession cd's results in the same
beahviour. My written directories appear perfect, amongst garbage...

It's kinda' a bummer as I was hoping for the usual flawless operations... but
a hack is a hack... I'll leave it for someone else to polish up...

Anyway, I use the following routine to "build" a multisession cd...

I create the initial cd.raw image with:
mkisofs.exe -a -l -L -R -v -o cd.raw -v files/os2/=d:\files\os2\

I write that image to cdrom with:
cdrecord.exe dev=0,3,0 speed=4 -multi cd.raw

Additional images are created with:
mkisofs.exe -C xxx,yyy -M 0,3,0 -a -l -L -R -v -o cd.raw -v
cdrecord/=d:\files\cdrecord\

Where "xxx,yyy" is gathered from: cdrecord -msinfo and the "-M" switch behaves
just like the "dev=" of cdrecord.

I write that image to cdrom with (same as the initial write):
cdrecord.exe dev=0,3,0 speed=4 -multi cd.raw

I believe you can keep doing this, up until your cd is full or you get
tired...

From the best that I can tell, I can write multisession cdroms without hacking
the OS2CDROM.DMD file. Reading them is the problem...

There was also a gentleman that mentioned that he had taken an old copy of
cdrom drivers from IBM's website and was able to compile a driver that
correctly handles multisession cd's. If you read this, contact me. I'd like to
trade a few emails with you. :')




--

*******************************************************************************

*                                  OS/2 ????                                 
*
*                              YOU AREN'T ALONE!                             
*
*               http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.html         
*
*******************************************************************************


/----------------------------------------\
| From the desktop of: Jerome D. McBride |
|         mcbrides@erols.com             |
\----------------------------------------/

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: tgal@pobox.com                                    12-Dec-99 01:30:13
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:26
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: "Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.)" <tgal@pobox.com>

Alex Taylor wrote:
> 
> Comm 4.61 runs just fine for me, though, given Netscape's inherent
> idiosyncracies.  (Runs better than on Windows, actually.)

4.61 quits downloading at 14 Mb of the 113 Mb zip for the
"just released" VA for Java v3.

-- 
 ===>  tgal@pobox.com

¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
InfoBaHn on:  Rockwell, Netscape, InJOY, and OS/2
____________________________________________________
((( BOXER )))  fassst, 32-bit character mode editor

http://www.boxersoftware.com/
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
((( InJOY ))) INTERNET DIALER apparatus EXTRAORDINAIRE!

http://www.fx.dk/injoy
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
((( BLOWFISH ))) ENCRYPTION for users/developers.

http://www.counterpane.com/blowfish.html
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dwhawk@southwind.net                              12-Dec-99 10:57:26
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Scrolling the OS/2 Comman

From: dwhawk@southwind.net (Don Hawkinson)

r> Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
r> command line interface?

Create a program object for a command line window

*         <------ path and file name line

% /k mode co80,100         <---------- parameters line

This will open an OS/2 command line window with  a 100 line buffer

---
   Don Hawkinson   dwhawk@southwind.net 
                         
--

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      12-Dec-99 12:49:09
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:51:38 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:

>
>
>"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:05:05 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
>> >> <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
>> >> >> here.
>> >> >
>> >> >Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
>> >> >can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
>> >> >prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
>> >> >you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
>> >> >the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
>> >> >that you do NOT use that product.
>> >>
>> >> It's the Bill Clinton approach.
>> >
>> >And of Bill Gates.
>>
>> Bill Gates isn't pissing on your leg and then telling you it's
>> raining, but Clinton gets a blow job and says it isn't sex.
>
>No one has pissed on my leg -- I'm confused by your baby talk  metaphors.

And were all wondering just how thick one person can be, but I have to
admit, you're clearing that up pretty damn fast.

>
>Gates has bickered over the meaning of common words while underoath.  He's
>professed to not understanding e-mails he has written and not understood
>those to which he replied.  He insists MS is not  a monopoly and there is
>no PC market.  Sick isn't it !
>
>

EBB

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:00:20
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82uf8l$2rb$12@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 09:21 PM,
   larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> > And if the contract states you must break the law in some fashion?  Is
> > that a legal contract?

> Legal, no.  But if the law you'd be breaking is unjust, then the
> contract should be legal since the unjust thing wouldn't exist.

If you passed Logic, then the UofAlberta is as big a joke as you are.

Get Mommy to explain this to you.

Oh, you can't. Test tubes can't talk.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:01:23
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3852bfb5.8224230@news1.sympatico.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 09:19 PM,
   siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) said:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
> <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
> >
> >Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
> >can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
> >prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
> >you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
> >the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
> >that you do NOT use that product.


> It's the Bill Clinton approach.

I'm beginning to think that the University of Alberta is at fault. Two
people from the same institution cannot be that dense unless they are
being taught by idiots.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:03:07
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82uepe$2rb$11@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 09:13 PM,
   larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:


> In the case of anti-trust, I've been recognizing the invalidity OF THE
> LAW repeatedly.

> > A gun is measureable.  Monopoly power is measurable.

> Monopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.

Monopoly is what the law defines a monopoly to be. It is not what you
think (and I use that term very loosely in your case) it should be.

> Measuring the monopoly powers of Microsoft is like measuring the number
> of guns on the head of a pin.  There are none.

There most certainly are under the definition of monopoly used in US (and
Canadian apparently) law. Under the law MS is a monopoly and its power is
measurable as defined in the law.

> > You have refused to recognize the phenomena of a monoipoly and monopoly
> > power.

> I will not lie and say that Microsoft is a monopoly.
> I will not lie and say that Microsoft can use monopoly power.

You are lying to yourself and the world in that case. Whether or not you
like the law, the law defines what monopoly means. MS meets and exceeds
the definition. Ergo it is a monopoly under the law. Monopolies can and do
exercise monopoly power as that power is defined under the law.

Your inane stupidity is not going to get you an interview much less a job
with MS. Wanting same is the only possible explanation for your idiotic
rantings and ravings other than that you are a totally stupid, retarded,
moron cheating his way through college.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:09:01
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82ueeo$2rb$9@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 09:07 PM,
   larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:


> I'm not misreading.  Bob's attempt to "blame" the extra cost on Michelin
> wasn't valid.

You are a liar. You also posted this AFTER replying to a subsequent
message of mine explaining to you that you had misread what I posted.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        12-Dec-99 12:23:17
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Palm Pilot emulator

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

I have recently bought a Palm V and have discovered a large volume
of software available for it. Now it's a pain to have to download it to
the Palm Pilot to try it out, so it would be handy running it on a PC
first. There is an emulator available and one has been written for OS/2
called Copilot/2, but this was some time ago, and I don't know if it still
being developed. Unfortunately, when I tried the version I found, it
loaded up a picture of a Palm III (I think) and then hung.

Does anyone know if there is a newer version?

My copilot2.exe is dated 25/05/97 size 752660.

--
John

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: windows.from.your.harddisk.arnol...               12-Dec-99 11:58:04
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Checkpoint firewall support under OS/2 ?

Message sender: windows.from.your.harddisk.arnoldvanovereem@iname.com

From: windows.from.your.harddisk.arnoldvanovereem@iname.com (Arnold van
Overeem)

My employer installed a checkpoint firewall-1 and requires me to use 
Securemote to access the intranet. Anyone who knows he to achieve this with 
OS/2 ?
I'm using Warp 4 with ISDN-card and ISDNPM, which worked fine until recently 
(and still works on the open internet).
On the checkpoint site I didn't find any clue that they know about the 
existence of OS/2.

remove windows from your harddisk to reply
==========================================
Arnold van Overeem
==========================================
Let's make the difference/2

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: pchapin@sover.net                                 12-Dec-99 07:29:18
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 10:13:27
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: pchapin@sover.net (Peter Chapin)

In article <82sbvu$2gl@news-central.tiac.net>, dave@daveanderson.com 
says...

> You must have misread the web site -- Opera v3.6 supports just about all of
> CSS1 (its support is said to be better than that of any other browser, 
> IIRC).  It doesn't yet support CSS2.

Well... from their top level page I clicked on "features" and went to 
http://www.opera.com/features.html. That page does not say one word 
about style sheets but at the bottom, under the heading "Modern and 
Feature Rich" it lists items like:

	+ HTML 3.2
	+ FONT tag with color and size attribute supported.
	+ FONT face support.

A number of other items are listed, but not style sheets. I would have 
expected that if style sheets were supported they would be mentioned in 
this list.

Thus it appears that Opera needs to update their web site.

Peter

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:22:01
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <jbysxvebayvaxarg.fmlias6.pminews@news.onlink.net>, on 12/11/99 at
04:28 PM,
   "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> said:

> You continually talk as if no one had any responsibilities to anyone. If
> you really believe that, you can't justify objections to anything anyone
> might do to you. So you don't like it! So what? If my only
> responsibility is to myself, why should I care whether you like it or
> not? I'll do what I like, and if it kills you, too bad.

Exactly. Using Lars P. Omberg's infantile attempt at logic, I should be
able to drive down the Queen Elizabeth II highway at 200 KPH in my Viper.
I know the law says I cannot exceed 100 KPH (in some areas at least if
memory serves), but I have decided that the law is invalid and that no
one's speed should be regulated by governments. Therefore it is perfectly
right and moral for me to do 200 regardless of the harm I am likely to
cause to others on the road.

The man is such an idiot and liar that he claimed I didn't know who he was
or that I knew where his website was. This despite the fact that he posted
the website information in many messages until I started communicating
with the officials at the University of Alberta.

For the record, the website address is www.ualberta.ca/~larso. On one of
the pages of absolute insane illogic, irrational ranting, and downright
idiotic statements, one finds a six page biography. It is called the
Faculty of the "University of Lars."

His full name is Lars Patrick Ormberg.
He lists his height at 6' 1.5" or 183 cm.
etc., etc. etc. for 5 pages! He gives his father's name (Murray Lars
Ormberg), his mother's (Theresa Ivy Makutka Ormberg), lists a cow named
Cassandra and a bull named Homer as pets, etc. etc. etc.

He includes a picture of himself. He bears a striking resemblance to
Jeffrey Dahlmer.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:40:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <82tsoi$qg3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, on 12/11/99 at 04:05 PM,
   Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> said:

> Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies can
> simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market prices. 
> Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that you are being
> forced against your will to use a product, while at the same time you
> declare at the bottom of every message you post that you do NOT use that
> product.

I never said I was forced to use Windows or any other MS product. I said I
was forced to buy one many times despite having no use for it. If you
cannot understand the written word, please go back to kindergarten.

> Your hocus-pocus economics are what stands in diametric opposition to
> reality, reason, and logic.

Your so-called economics are those of a splinter party which garnered
fewer votes in our last Presidential election than Mickey Mouse! You see,
to be listed on our ballot, you must have a minimum number of members.
Your party wasn't listed. People wrote in Mickey Mouse 78 times. No one
wrote in the name of your party's candidate.

> > And as for moral reprehensiblity, the only one exhibiting such
> > is you,

> You only think so because you hold self-sacrifice, force, and
> intellectual suicide as moral virtues.

Recognizing the necessity of a well ordered society governed by a written
body of law as interpreted by our Court system is not intellectual
suicide. Self-sacrifice is most certainly the mark of a civilized human
being concerned with the welfare of his peers who find themselves at one
or another sort of disadvantage. Force is required when those who refuse
to conform to the minimum standard of behavior use or attempt to use force
on other members of the society.

> The morality of life and of happiness (my OWN life and happiness) that I
> live by is based on my recognition that reality exist as an objective
> absolute - and that those of you who deny reality and who defy logic are
> the ones who are anti-life.  The fact that you would have us burn an
> achiever like Bill Gates on a stake is th grim demonstration and only
> possible result of your creed.

Your attitude defys logic. Your positions defy the reality of a society.
Your happiness would allow me to kill you on sight if I didn't conform to
the statutes and mores of society.

You ascribe to me a position totally without any shred of truth. I would
not execute Bill Gates for what he has done and continues to do to violate
the law so long as he did not engage in those crimes for which capital
punishment is prescribed by the laws of our society.

There is a difference between moral law and the law of our society as a
whole. I believe that life begins at conception and the taking of that
life is murder. The reality is that a majority of our society does not
treat abortion as murder. I accept that reality while finding it
repugnant.

Our society has declared that abortion is the right of a woman. I do not
agree, but I would not attempt to impose my moral code upon any woman.
Abortion is under our law a matter between her, her doctor, and her God.

Likewise, the Judeo-Christian faith holds that the state has a right to
execute criminals for crimes it describes as capital crimes. I have no
problem with this. Nor do I have any argument with countries which cut off
the hand of a thief or castrate the rapist. Those are the statutes and
mores of his society. A person committing a murder in the course of a
criminal act, one who plots to kill another, one who hires someone to kill
another, one who betrays his country in time of war, kills innocent men,
women, and children for political reasons by bombing a government
building, etc. are capital crimes here. That is a reality. Executions are
a reality. If it does nothing else, it insures that the animal who kills
another wantonly and deliberately will never do it again on this earth.
That is a good.



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 08:58:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <jbysxvebayvaxarg.fmlgpq3.pminews@news.onlink.net>, on 12/11/99 at
03:53 PM,
   "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> said:

> I'm not willing to pay for the other plane, that's all. Why should I?
> And why should it be considered moral for a company to try to unload
> something on me by tieing it to the product that I want to buy from
> them? That's coercion, no matter how you slice it.

Ah, Wolf, you are wasting your time. I wonder how the "genius" would like
it were he a diabetic for whom CocaCola was poison and Coke gained
sufficient market penentration that he could force old larso to buy a 32
ounce Coke (non diet of course) with every BigMac. I use that example
because he lists Big Mac's as one of his favorite foods on the website I
never saw and don't know where its address.

> Seems to me you like the idea of the power to force people to buy
> all-or-nothing. That makes you not only a fool, but a first-rate prick
> as well. Sorry, I misspoke myself. A thrid-rate prick.

Did you mean THIRD rate or TIRD rate prick above? <VBG>

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 09:02:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3852AE31.2331A52F@ibm.net>, on 12/11/99 at 03:04 PM,
   Joseph <josco@ibm.net> said:

> But I have a business and your business is hurting mine.  My god - how
> do we resolve that problem if property rights are so absolute?  Of
> course the answer is no right is absolute.  Why you can be sent to war,
> forced to forfeit your life for the protection of the state.   And you
> think ranting about absolute property rights can defend a monopoly.

Mental midgets like our larso, Donnelly (sp?), Britton tend to be physical
cowards who run off and hide if drafted for military service.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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From: wsonna@ibm.net                                    12-Dec-99 14:10:00
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: wsonna@ibm.net (William Sonna)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:17:20, rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm) 
> wrote:
> 
> > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?
> 
> This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their 
> newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients. 
> Leaving loyal users out in the cold.
> 

Would you prefer the jerk with the fourty thousand lines of code he'd 
rather throw away and he did because its his not yours so fuck you 
routine?  That is usually what happens when software companies leave 
markets.

Innoval, in contrast, was exemplary in the manner in which they left 
the OS/2 maketplace.

Consequently, there is still a great deal of good will towards them; 
and they remain highly respected.


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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           12-Dec-99 09:05:02
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <38528947_3@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/11/99 at 10:25 AM,
   "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

> Bob Germer wrote:
> >
> > > No, but the line reading "that Lars guy who works for you in Calgary"
> > > will be the source of many hours of hilarity.
> >
> > I discussed Larso who has a website on their server and claims to be a
> > student there.

> Only a fascist would try to harm another because they have a different
> opinion.

Society sets limits upon individual freedom within carefully defined laws
to protect the minority. That Ormberg has the right to print (broad
definition) his assinine opinions is absolute SO LONG AS THOSE RANTINGS DO
NOT VIOLATE THE RULES OF THE ORGANIZATION HE CLAIMS TO REPRESENT. That
organization, not a government, has a right to protect its good name. If
Ormberg were an employee of MicroSoft and posted that Bill Gates was a
thief, a liar, etc. on MS's equipment, he would be fired and rightly so.

Likewise, if the University of Alberta has rules against activity which
disgraces, demeans, etc . the name of the University, it has the right to
expel him.

By the way, I have the right to provide as much information as I can glean
about you to the Teamster's Union and Roofer's Union Locals in
Philadelphia which have a history of physically harming those who dare to
disagree with them. Members of the Teamsters including officers of the
local have been convicted of beating an anti-Clinton protestor in front of
TV cameras. Members of the roofers union have been convicted of killing
non-union construction workers.

Were I a facist, I would investigate you thoroughly and do exactly that.
If you refuse to accept that I am not a facist, I may be forced to become
one in your case.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> What have YOU done to bust a union today?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Work better: Work union-free.

> Steven C. Britton
> Calgary

> www.cadvision.com/sbritton





--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
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---------------

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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          12-Dec-99 14:29:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:12
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 04:28:17, hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu wrote:

> In article <385292A6.B3969AE6@WarpCity.com>,
>   OS2Guy@WarpCity.com wrote:
> 
> > Unless it feeds your OS/2 pocket directly, right Steve?
> > You know like where to find that elusive OS/2 fix or
> > OS/2 great deal?
> 
> LOL! I certainly don't need *you* for that! I used OS/2 for 3 years
> before ever reading a single newsgroup...

Responding, not to carry water for Warp City (and I should add, I've 
been to both Kathmandu and Ice Station 9 in the same day as often as 
I've been to Warp City) but just to point out:

There are 2 ways to use newsgroups. 

One way is to "read" them, presumably gleaning info for your own 
personal use. 

The other way is to read them to offer help with things you've become 
experienced at handling.

Tim Martin, of course, has a long history of generously offering help 
here, and (back when I wasn't filtering his own posts because he gets 
into long-running and useless arguments with kneejerk detractors) saw 
that his help was quite timely, accurate, and thoughtfully offered.

Though I never met the cat, never spoke in fact with anyone who has 
actually met him, I would still be willing to bet that he couldn't 
"use OS/2 for 3 years" and stay quiet without trying to offer help to 
others. It's a character flaw I can live with, especially when 
compared to the rampant self-proud selfishness that an increasingly 
WWF world is trying to justify.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: scalisi@tin.it                                    12-Dec-99 11:49:07
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: scalisi@tin.it

In <82v99s$o3i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, on 12/12/99
   at 05:45 AM, reedjd@bitsmart.com said:

>Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2 command
>line interface?  As I've spending more time working in the command line mode
>I've been frustruted by no buffer to scroll back and look at things.

I often use the shell window of EPM editor or a pmrexx window (to start it 
create a folder with pmrexx.exe as program to start).
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antonio(Nino) Scalisi           scalisi@tin.it
at 11:49(+0100, relative to GMT) on Sunday, 12 Dec 1999
Using MR/2 ICE v2.02  Reg: #20729.
Under ---> OS/2 WARP 4 rev.9.036 (fixpack 12)
Java ver.  1.1.8  build 19991026
ObjREXX 6.00   TCPIP 4.2 - MPTN 6.2007 (TCPIP 4.1 + W08620)
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: stefanj@gte.net                                   12-Dec-99 13:54:25
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Joystick Device Driver Contest.....New Entries!!

From: stefanj@gte.net (Jason Stefanovich)

I have received a new entry from J Da Silva,
An enhanced version of the popular gameport.sys.



MAMERun Joystick Device Driver Contest.

What is it?

Write your own joystick device driver for OS/2 and you could win $290
plus valuable prizes and earn the respect and gratitude of OS/2
gamers around the world! With the many new games available and the
advance of game controllers there arises a need for a better 
joystick device driver than IBM's advanced joystick device driver. 
Support for new controller features, such as 8+ buttons or USB, will
greatly enhance the OS/2 gaming experience for gamers as well as 
developers.

For rules and other information check out:

  http://home1.gte.net/stefanj/contest.htm 

I am looking for additional sponsors for this contest. If you would
like to contribute please go to: 

  http://home1.gte.net/stefanj/sponsor.htm 

Any questions can be sent to me at Stefanj@gte.net

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    12-Dec-99 14:07:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Comman

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:57:53, dwhawk@southwind.net (Don Hawkinson) 
wrote:

> r> Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
> r> command line interface?
> 
> Create a program object for a command line window
> 
> *         <------ path and file name line
> 
> % /k mode co80,100         <---------- parameters line

Or make a command file (call it Z.CMD, say):

    ./**/
    cmd

Then run

   PMREXX z.cmd

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jgil@widomaker.com                                12-Dec-99 09:21:15
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: "Jack Gillis" <jgil@widomaker.com>

I've followed this thread for a few days and am interested in trying Opera
under Warp 4.   However, I can find no mention of an OS/2 version under the
Download section of www.Opera.com.

Am I missing something?  Maybe that there is no such thing?

Thanks for any tips.


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: christian.hennecke@ruhr-uni-boch...               12-Dec-99 15:44:13
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

Message sender: christian.hennecke@ruhr-uni-bochum.de

From: Christian Hennecke <christian.hennecke@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

Jerry McBride schrieb:
> >> Secondly, what's the big deal with DAO? I'm able to use it, but what's
the
> >> purpose for it? Can you offer up some real-time samples of how and when
you
> >> do use it?
> >
> >Good question, no answer
> >
> http
> Hmmm...

DAO comes in handy when you try to copy audio CDs that contain tracks
where the audio signal doesn't stop between tracks. An example are CDs
with live recordings. You know, the musicians don't stop doing something
and the crowd doesn't stop to cheer. When you write your CD without DAO
a pause of 2 seconds is inserted between the tracks. Imagine the singer
saying "Thank you. The ne" 2 seconds silence "xt songs is called...".
Annoying, isn't it?

Christian Hennecke
-- 
Keep passing the open windows! ("The Hotel New Hampshire", John Irving)

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              12-Dec-99 10:09:02
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article <38528F0F.D987D612@WarpCity.com>, Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>
wrote:
>williamd wrote:
>
>> This sounds *great*; thanks for posting the info! Here's hoping they
>> choose an appropriate domain name- like os2online or something!!
>>
>> Bill
>> __
>> williamd1@attglobal.net
>
>Thanks Bill.  InnoVal actually engineered the low-cost
>deal for OS/2 users in partnership with AFST (Advanced
>Family Safe Technologies, Inc) and it is a great deal for
>OS/2 users.
>
>Get in now and it is only $12 a month for an entire year
>with  56k connections, <smooch, smooch> 100% dialup access either locally
>or through an 800 number <slurp> (and that includes Hawaii, Alaska
>and Puerto Rico), 24 hours a day, 7 days a week access.
>Go to any other vendor and ask for a discount because
>you use OS/2 and they ignore you. <swallow>...

Ok, Tim, take your sloppy spam, get off your knees, and get out of here.

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From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              12-Dec-99 09:04:29
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article <38529175.49EDE961@WarpCity.com>, Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>
wrote:
>Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?
>>
>> This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their
>> newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients.
>> Leaving loyal users out in the cold.
>>
>
>Leaving loyal users out in the cold?  Lessee - did they withdraw
>PostRoad Mailer from you the way the developer of CUSeeme/2
>did?

Yes, with Postroad News before that.

>Did they lie to you to get you to buy their product then run
>off into the night the way SPG did?

Yes.

>No InnoVal did not.  To this day they provide free distribution of
>the Post Road Mailer...

They provide NOTHING.  The rest of us are moving the distribution archives
around.  Innoval's support web site has been dead (literally) for years now.

>...(try that with CUSeeMe/2) and have encouraged
>others to continue development of the J Street Mailer.

So they dumped the source and said it's now a do-it-yourself product.  What's
the big deal?

>InnoVal is to be applauded for their continued devotion to
>OS/2, the OS/2 user and the OS/2 community at large.

Wipe your chin, take your kneepads, and get out of here, Timmy.

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From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              12-Dec-99 09:11:13
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article <82u89f$m08$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, isaacl@sonics.ece.ubc.ca
(e-frog) wrote:
>Bob Eager (rde@tavi.co.uk) wrote:
>: On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm)
>: wrote:
>
>: > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?
>
>: This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their
>: newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients.
>: Leaving loyal users out in the cold.
>
>I would disagree with this point of view.
>I mean first, when they decided to go Java, they let Post Road Mailer out
>for free. For everyone. That was nice.

No it wasn't.  It was a marketing move to try to get people to play with their
product in a less functional mode to entice them to buy the "full" version.
It's a common method to increase sales.  There was nothing "nice" about it,
since by that time they had already stopped supporting most of the customers
who paid full price.

>And then when they found that they couldn't pay their bills, they gave
>PLENTY of advanced warning that they would have to do some sort of major
>switch of business focus.
>JStreet mailer was nice, but since they didn't seem to plan on going on
>with it, it has been left to someone else to maintain, unofficially, and
>as far as I know it is available to everyone for FREE.

No, they didn't give "plenty" of advance warning, unless if you include the
bounced emails to "tech support."

>That's about as classy an exit as you can get.

Not hardly.  Accepting payments for Postroad News and Mail licenses AFTER they
had discontinued support is as far from classy as you can get.

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From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              12-Dec-99 09:20:01
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article
<sXnyXDNIUu65-pn2-bIZk5nYBQJxh@207-172-184-121.s121.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.co
m>, dboultr@spamfree.erols.com wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:48:45, rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) wrote:
>
>> That's what happened with their newsreader.
>
>Geez, Bob!  What's this all about??  They knew their newsreader was a
>piece of crap, pretty much beyond saving.

I'm sure that could be true, but what all the people who bought it with the
understanding that they weren't buying a dead-end product with absolutely no
support?

>There were at the time, and
>have been subsequently, a ton of newsreader choices for OS/2 users.
>We didn't loose anything when they gave up that market.

No, Doug, "a ton" there isn't, not hardly.  Depending upon your choice of
delivery, the choice is certainly less than 5.  The choice of NNTP (and mail)
clients with active support (now) is now down to 1.

>I haven't looked at MR2/ICE 2.0 yet, but PostRoad Mailer is still
>arguably the best mail reader we have.  I paid for it once, long long
>ago, and I've gotten two major releases for free.

Innoval's last two major releases were v2.00 and v3.00.  Are you trying to
tell us that you were given a free upgrade to v2.00 and then again to v3.00,
while the rest of the world had to pay?

>I still use PRM and am happy with it.

You appear to be a very undemanding user.

>I'm pretty sure I got the newsreader for free too.

Only if you got your registration key in a warez newsgroup, I'm afraid.  The
rest of us paid for it, and received no support assistance when it wouldn't
work.  Innoval never released a free registration code for that product.

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From: innoval@ibm.net                                   12-Dec-99 16:02:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: innoval@ibm.net

Bob, we didn't do everything right. I know that. We learned. We failed
at the OS/2 market. Partly it was the market and partly it was blunders
on our part. But I don't feel completely bad about our efforts:

When it comes to mailers, OS/2 is fortunate to have an excellent choice
of excellent mailers. Our, Post Road Mailer, is one of them. Some
people prefer one, others another. That's great. We got our fair share.
I'm still very proud of the Post Road Mailer.

I'm now super-pleased with the opportunity to bring two new established
vendors into the OS/2 camp: AFST and National Dialup Service. I would
like to see us support them. I think they bring a good deal to the
table for OS/2 users.

Bob, you could have brought this deal to the table just as easily as I
did. I just had the good fortune of working with these companies. AFST
and NDS were very receptive to a good proposal. I'd hate to see this
opportunity fail because InnoVal failed in the OS/2 software market.
That just doesn't make sense to me. Go read the site at
http://isp800.com/os2/ Check out the FAQ.

For full disclosure, you should know that I have a vested interest in
AFST. I'm an investor. I'll lobby for OS/2 users. What I'd like to see
is our community of users "speak" to AFST and NDS with a common voice.
I'm not saying buy the service unless it is right for you. But I am
saying, given the right positive voice this good be mutually beneficial
(win/win).

Bob, I AM sorry we let you down. But I'm not sorry for trying then and
now.

Dan Porter, OS User

In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-xSISHdQ1GPId@man-169.dialup.zetnet.co.uk>,
  rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm)
> wrote:
>
> > Why? What's wrong with Innoval?
>
> This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their
> newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients.
> Leaving loyal users out in the cold.
>
> --
> Bob Eager
> rde at tavi.co.uk
> PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
> 8580*6,
> 8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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From: karlbeem@mindspring.com                           12-Dec-99 15:16:13
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: ESPN problem and Netscape

From: "Karl M. Beem" <karlbeem@mindspring.com>

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:54:48 GMT, Buddy Donnelly wrote:

>
>> Several days ago ESPN changed its main page design.  I have Netscape 4.61
and
>> it has problems formatting the page.  The Netscape of Win95 has no
problems. 
>> Has anyone else noticed this?
>
>I see no problems, though it's crowded as hell. (Too crowded to 
>mention, anywhere, the disgraceful court testimony on CourtTV 
>regarding the arrogant, power-mad and sex-crazed owner of the NBA 
>Charlotte Hornets, or to elaborate on the crooked deal worked out to 
>permit the Olympic weasel Samaranch to escape FBI interrogation when 
>he visits Washington next week.)


What font do you use? 

Karl



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From: nospam@savebandwidth.invalid                      12-Dec-99 13:12:15
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: nospam@savebandwidth.invalid       (John Thompson)

In <82v99s$o3i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, reedjd@bitsmart.com writes:

>Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
>command line interface?  As I've spending more time working in the
>command line mode I've been frustruted by no buffer to scroll back and
>look at things.
>
>I have to assue my beloved OS/2 has some way to do this.  Can anyone
>help me?

Here's a couple things to try: run the EPM command interface 
("File...Open...Command Shell") and run your commands from there. 
All screen output will be in the EPM window.

Try JPSoftware's "Take Command/2" (http://www.jpsoft.com).  This 
is a PM command interpreter, CMD.EXE-compatible and with many 
useful extensions.

-John (John.Thompson@attglobal.net)

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From: jcleveland@carolina.rr.com                        12-Dec-99 15:35:23
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Winos2 problem

From: JC <jcleveland@carolina.rr.com>

I have a problem with winos2. I installed os/2 on a 4gb drive using
HPFS, no problem, I have 3771mb free. But
winos2 thinks that drive c: is full and I can't install anything under
winos2. It reports c: okb free  0kb total.
Can someone help? Thanks.

JC

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From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    12-Dec-99 16:06:00
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Comman

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:07:17, rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager) wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:57:53, dwhawk@southwind.net (Don Hawkinson) 
> wrote:
> 
> > r> Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
> > r> command line interface?
> > 
> > Create a program object for a command line window
> > 
> > *         <------ path and file name line
> > 
> > % /k mode co80,100         <---------- parameters line
> 
> Or make a command file (call it Z.CMD, say):
> 
>     ./**/
>     cmd
> 
> Then run
> 
>    PMREXX z.cmd

Oops. No dot before the /**/   !!

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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From: c.k.christacopoulos_removeme@dun...               12-Dec-99 16:46:21
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Winos2 problem

Message sender: c.k.christacopoulos_removeme@dundee.ac.uk

From: Charles Christacopoulos <c.k.christacopoulos_removeme@dundee.ac.uk>


JC wrote:

> I have a problem with winos2. I installed os/2 on a 4gb drive using
> HPFS, no problem, I have 3771mb free. But
> winos2 thinks that drive c: is full and I can't install anything under
> winos2. It reports c: okb free  0kb total.
> Can someone help? Thanks

A few days earlier someone posted a solution which effectively said, fill
up your hard disk until you have less than 2 gb free.  Then it will
install.  I wish I had known when I had the problem.

Charles

PS.  Someone I hope may give you exact reason/solution.

--

remove "_removeme" to reply.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Christacopoulos, Secretary's Office, University of Dundee,
Dundee DD1 4HN, (Scotland) United Kingdom.
Tel: +44+(0)1382-344891. Fax: +44+(0)1382-201604.
WebDad of http://somis.ais.dundee.ac.uk/
Home of the Scottish Search Maestro http://somis2.ais.dundee.ac.uk/


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From: cytan@fnal.gov                                    12-Dec-99 16:52:12
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: cytan@fnal.gov (Cheng-Yang Tan)

In message <c1.2c.2TDqrZ$1YY@rhino_house.attglobal.net> -
nospam@savebandwidth.invalid       (John Thompson) writes:
:>
:>In <82v99s$o3i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, reedjd@bitsmart.com writes:
:>
:>>Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
:>>command line interface?  As I've spending more time working in the
:>>command line mode I've been frustruted by no buffer to scroll back and
:>>look at things.
:>>
:>>I have to assue my beloved OS/2 has some way to do this.  Can anyone
:>>help me?
:>
:>Here's a couple things to try: run the EPM command interface 
:>("File...Open...Command Shell") and run your commands from there. 
:>All screen output will be in the EPM window.
:>
:>Try JPSoftware's "Take Command/2" (http://www.jpsoft.com).  This 
:>is a PM command interpreter, CMD.EXE-compatible and with many 
:>useful extensions.
:>
:>-John (John.Thompson@attglobal.net)
:>

You know, as another commandline jock, I had wished from day one that
the cmd window was more like the xterm window. The EPM and TakeCommand/2
doesn't work like the xterm window, most stdio programmes just don't
work in the same window (e.g. ls) where the command is typed which to me is
unacceptable. 

If someone were to write a set of VIO*.DLL's to take over the default
VIO*.DLLs so that this works, I'd pay real money for it.

Cheng-Yang Tan

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From: ktkelvin@yahoo.com                                13-Dec-99 01:00:19
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 14:24:13
Subj: Psion Link for Warp

From: "Kelvin Tsang" <ktkelvin@yahoo.com>

Hello,

Anyone know where can find the software to make
Psion talk to OS/2 ?
I did tried one, but forgot the name of it.

Thanks,
Kelvin
--
#-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-#
Hong Kong OS/2 User Group
http://www.os2.org.hk
news://news.freeforum.org/comp.os.os2

Psion Club Hong Kong
http://
news://news.freeforum.org/comp.pda.psion
#-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-#



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From: fwkirk@attglobal.net                              12-Dec-99 17:22:12
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: fwkirk@attglobal.net (Frank Kirk)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 01:32:00, Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:

> Here's some hot news for all you NON-Warp City Members:
 
> FST Inc, has joined in a business partnership arrangement
> with National DialUp Services and InnoVal Systems Solutions,
> to provide a low-cost nationwide ISP service for OS/2 users.
> ISP800, a private brand ISP for corporate customers, is
> inaugurating service for consumers on January 3,  2000.

Tim,

	That's some of the best news I've heard in a while.  Thanks for 
posting it.

FWK

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From: letoured@nospam.net                               12-Dec-99 00:11:03
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

>> No. It about the continuing inability and/or refusal of you and few others
>> here to see reality and to use Humpty Dumpty definitions for the words you
>> choose to use. 

>Monopolies requiring a lack of competition?
>Coercion requiring the use of force to restrain?
>These are "Humpty Dumpty definitions"?

I have no idea what you are trying to state here.  Why don't you try
again. 

What kind of drugs are your buddies on up there -- I'm assuming they will
explain the behavior we see here since nothing displayed in these posts
indicates that any your group think normally or as intellectuals.



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: letoured@nospam.net                               12-Dec-99 00:07:27
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Joseph <josco@ibm.net> said:


>"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:

>> Bill Gates isn't pissing on your leg and then telling you it's
>> raining, but Clinton gets a blow job and says it isn't sex.

>No one has pissed on my leg -- I'm confused by your baby talk  metaphors.
>Gates has bickered over the meaning of common words while underoath. 
>He's professed to not understanding e-mails he has written and not
>understood those to which he replied.  He insists MS is not  a monopoly
>and there is no PC market.  Sick isn't it !


You're trying to reason with someone who could give a blow job to Gates
and think he was invited in because of his intelligence.


_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: letoured@nospam.net                               11-Dec-99 23:55:25
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Mr.  siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

Why are you assholes over here on an OS2 forum trying to tell how innocent
MS is? 



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: jglatt@spamgone-borg.com                          12-Dec-99 18:26:15
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jglatt@spamgone-borg.com (Jeff Glatt)

>Boob Germer
>By the way, I have the right to provide as much information as I can glean
>about you to the Teamster's Union and Roofer's Union Locals in
>Philadelphia which have a history of physically harming those who dare to
>disagree with them.

>If you refuse to accept that I am not a facist, I may be forced to become
>one in your case.

"Bob Germer makes quite a lot of sense." -- Karel Jensens

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From: jglatt@spamgone-borg.com                          12-Dec-99 18:36:07
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: jglatt@spamgone-borg.com (Jeff Glatt)

>William Sonna
>Innoval, in contrast, was exemplary in the manner in which they left 
>the OS/2 maketplace.

What's so exemplary about leaving the OS/2 marketplace? Virtually all
commercial OS/2 developers have done so by now, and I have no doubt
that countless other developers have done so too. Hell, a great number
of endusers have done so too. It's not like leaving behind OS/2 is
uncommon. Just ask IBM and they'll tell you (in a leaked memo,
probably)

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     12-Dec-99 10:59:04
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:51:38 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:05:05 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"E. Barry Bruyea" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:05:39 GMT, Chris J Delanoy
> >> >> <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> You and a handful of others here are the only irrational beings
> >> >> >> here.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that companies
> >> >> >can simultaneously charge prices that are above AND below market
> >> >> >prices.  Irrationality is the act of saying - and believing - that
> >> >> >you are being forced against your will to use a product, while at
> >> >> >the same time you declare at the bottom of every message you post
> >> >> >that you do NOT use that product.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's the Bill Clinton approach.
> >> >
> >> >And of Bill Gates.
> >>
> >> Bill Gates isn't pissing on your leg and then telling you it's
> >> raining, but Clinton gets a blow job and says it isn't sex.
> >
> >No one has pissed on my leg -- I'm confused by your baby talk  metaphors.
>
> And were all wondering just how thick one person can be, but I have to
> admit, you're clearing that up pretty damn fast.

I have a problem understanding vulgar metaphors.   It's probably because  I
don't encounter them in my day-to-day life and I don't use them in
conversation
at work or home.  The vulgarities which are second nature to you tend to be
confusing to other people.

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From: mgreene@exis.net                                  12-Dec-99 13:30:24
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 16:45:15
Subj: TRAPDUMP to a ZIP100 (SCSI)

From: "Michael K Greene" <mgreene@exis.net>

Ok, I understand the TRAPDUMP process but I can not get the dump to my ZIP100
(SCSI) drive. The command say that it can not find the drive. Something
wrong?

Michael K Greene <mgreene@exis.net>     |      OS/2 Warp / Linux / Win95-311



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From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 19:19:08
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
> On <82ueeo$2rb$9@burn.ab.videon.ca>, on 12/11/99 at 09:07 PM,
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> > I'm not misreading.  Bob's attempt to "blame" the extra cost on Michelin
> > wasn't valid.
> 
> You are a liar. You also posted this AFTER replying to a subsequent
> message of mine explaining to you that you had misread what I posted.

The fact remains that in your example, you said you would have to spend an
extra $5000 to get the Range Rover instead of the Jeep 'because Range Rover
did not have a [Michelin-tire] agreemment'.

But since there was no deal between Range Rover and Michelin, then no
agreement could be responsible for that extra price.


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 19:14:03
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> said:
> 
> > You continually talk as if no one had any responsibilities to anyone. If
> > you really believe that, you can't justify objections to anything anyone
> > might do to you. So you don't like it! So what? If my only
> > responsibility is to myself, why should I care whether you like it or
> > not? I'll do what I like, and if it kills you, too bad.
> 
> Exactly. Using Lars P. Omberg's infantile attempt at logic, I should be
> able to drive down the Queen Elizabeth II highway at 200 KPH in my Viper.
> I know the law says I cannot exceed 100 KPH (in some areas at least if
> memory serves), but I have decided that the law is invalid and that no
> one's speed should be regulated by governments.

If you can safely drive 200, why not?

>                                                Therefore it is perfectly
> right and moral for me to do 200 regardless of the harm I am likely to
> cause to others on the road.

The only harm you'll cause is from hitting somebody...and its just as
possible to do so at half the speed.

> The man is such an idiot and liar that he claimed I didn't know who he was

It's a logical conclusion from a man who one day says that he's sent 30 of
"my posts" to the President of the University of Alberta (which will be
worth an aside later), but then we see this exchange:

BG: But you claim that no government ever did anything good for the people.
By your logic, providing a police force is bad.

SB: I didn't actually make that particular claim.

BG: You fucking well did make that claim.  It is in one of the messages sent
to the President of the University of Alberta.

-

Now, as I point out in a message I sent December 4th, the claim was not made
by Steve, but by Chris.  The interesting note is that those posts by Steve
and Chris on that topic didn't mention me at all.  Here you not only say
that the claim made it into the snail mail package, but also misattribute
it.

Why one of Chris' comments mistaken for Steve's comment is sent as an
example of a Lars Ormberg post is interesting indeed.  The best explanation?
A complete lack of understanding who is who.  Though I'm sure Steven will
get a kick out of being a UofA student again.

> or that I knew where his website was. This despite the fact that he posted
> the website information in many messages until I started communicating
> with the officials at the University of Alberta.

Ignoring your mistaken claim of an alteration where none occured, I point to
the "admissions records" link on my main page where there is only *one*
entry from Bob's ISP picsonline.net and that the entry was made at 6:15 on
the morning of the twelfth.

In fact, one can go back to August in the logs and still find only the one
visit from Bob.

Thank you, by the way, for visiting the University of Lars.

> For the record, the website address is www.ualberta.ca/~larso. On one of
> the pages of absolute insane illogic, irrational ranting, and downright
> idiotic statements, one finds a six page biography. It is called the
> Faculty of the "University of Lars."

Actually, it's the Faculty of Lars.  All Faculties are a Faculty of the
University.

> He includes a picture of himself. He bears a striking resemblance to
> Jeffrey Dahlmer.

Actually, I've been more called a cross between Brad Pitt and Jim Carrey.
(Even mistaken for Brad Pitt, by Brad Pitt fans, on a couple occasions).


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 19:26:09
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> said:
> 
> > I'm not willing to pay for the other plane, that's all. Why should I?
> > And why should it be considered moral for a company to try to unload
> > something on me by tieing it to the product that I want to buy from
> > them? That's coercion, no matter how you slice it.
> 
> Ah, Wolf, you are wasting your time. I wonder how the "genius" would like
> it were he a diabetic for whom CocaCola was poison and Coke gained
> sufficient market penentration that he could force old larso to buy a 32
> ounce Coke (non diet of course) with every BigMac.

Sure.  I guess, in that case, that if I wanted to buy a Big Mac, I'd buy a
32 ounce glass of poison too.

If I refused to buy the Coke, I guess I'd refuse the whole Big Mac.  I'd
fill out one of those "how did we do at serving you" cards and explain the
situation, that I would appreciate being able to buy the Mac without the
Coke.  McDonalds then has two options: stop selling the Coke with the Big
Mac (if they're under a contract with Coke, they can approach Coke with this
proposition of changing the agreement to allow this...Coke can then refuse
or accept with similar consequences as McDonalds has with me) or lose
customers who don't appreciate their new business policy.  The ball is in
their court.  They are the ones with the ability to make the call.

Am I harmed?  Only if I drink the Coke...which in this case would mean I
would be harmed SOLELY by my own stupidity.  I couldn't with any rationality
claim McDonalds and/or Coke were responsible for what I did.



-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 12:31:09
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> Ah, Wolf, you are wasting your time. I wonder how the "genius" would like
> it were he a diabetic for whom CocaCola was poison and Coke gained
> sufficient market penentration that he could force old larso to buy a 32
> ounce Coke (non diet of course) with every BigMac. I use that example
> because he lists Big Mac's as one of his favorite foods on the website I
> never saw and don't know where its address.

Nobody is forcing Lars to buy a Big Mac.  The point is that if that was the
case, he'd just choose to buy his hamburgers elsewhere -- despite the Big
Mac being his favourite.

Just because you like something doesn't mean you have a right to it.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 19:48:03
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> > > And if the contract states you must break the law in some fashion?  Is
> > > that a legal contract?
> 
> > Legal, no.  But if the law you'd be breaking is unjust, then the
> > contract should be legal since the unjust thing wouldn't exist.
> 
> If you passed Logic, then the UofAlberta is as big a joke as you are.

I take it you never passed Ethics.  So ponder this again...

A contract isn't legal if it requires you to do something illegal.

But if the 'something' in question SHOULDN'T BE illegal, then having the
clause in the contract shouldn't be illegal either.  And therefore having
the clause in the contract is perfectly just.

> Get Mommy to explain this to you.
> 
> Oh, you can't. Test tubes can't talk.

I'm sure the insults are really helping your case.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 12:53:12
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> > Only a fascist would try to harm another because they have a different
> > opinion.
>
> Society sets limits upon individual freedom within carefully defined laws
> to protect the minority. That Ormberg has the right to print (broad
> definition) his assinine opinions is absolute SO LONG AS THOSE RANTINGS DO
> NOT VIOLATE THE RULES OF THE ORGANIZATION HE CLAIMS TO REPRESENT.

Lars doesn't claim to represent the U of A.

> That organization, not a government, has a right to protect its good name.
If
> Ormberg were an employee of MicroSoft and posted that Bill Gates was a
> thief, a liar, etc. on MS's equipment, he would be fired and rightly so.

Very true.  If Lars were employed by the U of A, you would have a valid
argument.

He isn't -- he's a student there.  Students do not represent their
university.

> Likewise, if the University of Alberta has rules against activity which
> disgraces, demeans, etc . the name of the University, it has the right to
> expel him.

The U of A, like all universities, is supposed to be a school which
advocates freedom of thought and expression.  That means that they have to
advocate and sanction Lars' right to express his beliefs just as much as
some crazed left-wing lunatic.

As long as Lars isn't advocating gay-bashing, lynchings, or harming people
with whom he disagrees (which he isn't doing), he should have the right to
say what he wants -- regardless of what server he happens to post from.

It is you, Bob, who is trying to harm Lars simply because he has a different
opinion.  Your simple motivation for seeking out his school is solely based
on your hatred of him based on his different opinion.

That, not only is bigotry, but is also the way the Nazis and Fascists
operated.

> By the way, I have the right to provide as much information as I can glean
> about you to the Teamster's Union and Roofer's Union Locals in
> Philadelphia which have a history of physically harming those who dare to
> disagree with them.

That is a fascist practise.

Union goons don't fighten me, though...

> Members of the Teamsters including officers of the local have been
convicted of
> beating an anti-Clinton protestor in front of TV cameras. Members of the
roofers union
> have been convicted of killing non-union construction workers.
>
> Were I a facist, I would investigate you thoroughly and do exactly that.
> If you refuse to accept that I am not a facist, I may be forced to become
> one in your case.

Believe what you want.  Threatening me and attempting to intimidate me is
yet another proof of my point, though -- that you are acting in a fascistic
manner.

The fascists and nazis also used intimidation, beatings, and threats of such
as a method of silencing their opposition.

It didn't work, it doesn't work, and it won't work.

Someone could kill me and somebody else would simply take my place.  My
ideology isn't limited to just me.  It is shared by the vast majority of
people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 19:58:26
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw letoured@nospam.net write:
> larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> >So in other words, a company isn't allowed to give a discount for
> >behaviour that they like?
> 
> In the US -- No

Then a company in the U.S. is not free.

It cannot give "club members" a discount?  Nor family members?  Nor favoured
customers?  Nor sell its product cheaply in return for promotion?

> >Most discounts come with a condition.  So did MS's.  And you cry and
> >scream about it.
> 
> Yea, and they violate their license agreement that states I can refund.

Then take them to court on that!

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 13:03:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Tim Rosnau wrote:

> "Steven C. Britton" wrote:
> >
> > Only a fascist would try to harm another because they have a different
> > opinion.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > What have YOU done to bust a union today?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

> This is really intelligent coming from a guy who is in favor of
> union busting.

Yes.

I advocate union busting.  That does not mean I advocate harm to individual
union members.  It means that I advocate the decertification and breaking up
of unions.

For too long, union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics of threats and
intimidation have harmed the owners of reputable corporations, and it is
time for this crap to stop.

Anything which undermines a union's influence is good.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 20:05:09
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> > Most discounts come with a condition.  So did MS's.  And you cry and
> > scream about it.
> 
> But those conditions violate US law.

Those laws are unjust violations of freedoms.  They should not exist.

> As far as you are concerned, you aren't in the US.

A violation of freedomm is a violation of freedom.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               12-Dec-99 12:37:04
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Alan Boritz wrote:

> Wipe your chin, take your kneepads, and get out of here, Timmy.

Statements such as this confirm to all the
whining ass/fool you continually demonstrate
yourself to be.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City
http://warpcity.com

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 20:44:26
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

> > Monopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.
> 
> Monopoly is what the law defines a monopoly to be.

When the legal definition of a monopoly fails to correlate with reality, the
law is at fault.

> > Measuring the monopoly powers of Microsoft is like measuring the number
> > of guns on the head of a pin.  There are none.
> 
> There most certainly are under the definition of monopoly used in US (and
> Canadian apparently) law. Under the law MS is a monopoly and its power is
> measurable as defined in the law.

True.  The laws themselves are unjust.  These laws should not exist.  No law
should define Microsoft as a monopoly (since it isn't).

> > > You have refused to recognize the phenomena of a monoipoly and monopoly
> > > power.
> 
> > I will not lie and say that Microsoft is a monopoly.
> > I will not lie and say that Microsoft can use monopoly power.
> 
> You are lying to yourself and the world in that case.

Microsoft has competitors.  Any other definition (ie. U.S. law) is rotten to
the core.

>                                                        Whether or not you
> like the law, the law defines what monopoly means. MS meets and exceeds
> the definition. Ergo it is a monopoly under the law. Monopolies can and do
> exercise monopoly power as that power is defined under the law.

The problem with the WHOLE LAW is that it defies reality and the rights of a
business.

> Your inane stupidity is not going to get you an interview much less a job
> with MS.

Do I care?  No.  I'm not planning on working for MS.

>           Wanting same is the only possible explanation for your idiotic
> rantings and ravings other than that you are a totally stupid, retarded,
> moron cheating his way through college.

Mature, Bob, really mature.

Keep going, by all means.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mamodeo@stny.rr.com                               12-Dec-99 16:05:23
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:10
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Marty <mamodeo@stny.rr.com>

Tim Martin wrote:
> 
> Alan Boritz wrote:
> 
> > Wipe your chin, take your kneepads, and get out of here, Timmy.
> 
> Statements such as this confirm to all the
> whining ass/fool you continually demonstrate
> yourself to be.

Statements such as this confirm to all the whining ass/fool you continually
demonstrate yourself to be.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mail@dontwannabesued.com                          12-Dec-99 19:49:16
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: mail@dontwannabesued.com (RCW)

To run Opera on OS/2 you need to use their Win3.1 version.  There are
a few drawbacks:  No drag and drop, 8 letter filenames, crashes once
in a while (but very easy to restart).

I have both Opera and Netscape 4.6 on my machine.  I find I prefer to
use Opera but once in a while I hit a web page that messes up Opera or
makes it crash.  Then I use Netscape.  I have no axe to grind, but of
the two, I definitely prefer Opera.

RCW

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 19:45:26
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michel A Goyette write:
> Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:45:20, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:

> > > 	Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
> > > "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
> > > number of CPU sold.
> > 
> > Sure.  Microsoft has that right.
> 
> 	Not so, following their removal of this clause because of the 
> anti-competition brought up by the DOJ.

They have the right whether or not the government declares the practise
illegal.

> > You weren't forced to buy it in the first place.  The store placed
> > conditions of sale on the product that you didn't like.  Then don't
support
> > the store.
> 
> 	The problem is to find a store that didn't have this kind of 
> "contract"

Yes, that is the problem.  If you don't want Windows, it is *your* problem.

>                  since it would put them out of an advantageous contract 
> compare to others (price of Windows higher and, hence, a higher price 
> for the system).

For Windows systems.  But you aren't talking about Windows systems.  What
about non-Windows systems?  Are you saying that there isn't a single place
that sells non-Windows systems?  Nobody specializes to this niche market?

> > >                                It's not about having Windows or not
> > > on the system but having to pay anyway the "Microsof tax" on this
system.
> > 
> > The "Microsoft tax" is totally voluntary.  Nobody paid it that didn't have
> > to.
> 
> 	Well, since it was a "CPU tax", everyone paid it even if Windows 
> wasn't installed on the machine since the OEM Windows price was based 
> on the number of CPU sold.


I didn't say that the only people who paid it were people who installed
Windows.  Everyone who bought a CPU from said dealer paid the tax...but they
could have easily chosen not to pay it by not buying the CPU from said dealer.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dave@daveanderson.com                             12-Dec-99 19:47:25
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: dave@daveanderson.com (Dave Anderson)

In <wtvyjvqbznxrepbz.fmmt7u0.pminews@news.widomaker.com>, "Jack Gillis"
<jgil@widomaker.com> writes:
>I've followed this thread for a few days and am interested in trying Opera
>under Warp 4.   However, I can find no mention of an OS/2 version under the
>Download section of www.Opera.com.
>
>Am I missing something?  Maybe that there is no such thing?

There is no such thing *yet*.  The folks at Netlabs are working on a native
OS/2 version of Opera (using the Odin -- formerly WinOS/2 -- software) and,
IIRC, have recently said that they expect to release a beta version of 
Opera v4.0 for OS/2 shortly after Opera Software releases a beta of Opera 
v4.0 for Windoze (which is supposed to be early next year).

        Dave

-- 
Dave Anderson (dave@daveanderson.com)

Software engineer seeking employment in the Greater Boston (Mass.) area.
Experience in operating systems, networks, compilers, client/server, and more.
Interest in databases and hardware design.
Proven ability to learn new environments quickly.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Vi...               12-Dec-99 19:55:00
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Winos2 problem

Message sender: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca (Michel A Goyette)

Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:35:46, JC <jcleveland@carolina.rr.com> a ‚crit:

> I have a problem with winos2. I installed os/2 on a 4gb drive using
> HPFS, no problem, I have 3771mb free. But
> winos2 thinks that drive c: is full and I can't install anything under
> winos2. It reports c: okb free  0kb total.
> Can someone help? Thanks.

	That's because there's a 2GB limit in DOS.  If you have more than 
that, the "free" space reported becomes negative.  Look at Hobbes for 
the 2GBfix file (or something like that) that you put in your 
AUTOEXEC.BAT, it works.  HTH.

Salut,

	Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
	ICQ #13376913
	http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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From: dave@daveanderson.com                             12-Dec-99 19:59:00
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: dave@daveanderson.com (Dave Anderson)

In <MPG.12bd5f3baf6efcc9989696@news.sover.net>, pchapin@sover.net (Peter
Chapin) writes:
>In article <82sbvu$2gl@news-central.tiac.net>, dave@daveanderson.com 
>says...
>
>> You must have misread the web site -- Opera v3.6 supports just about all of
>> CSS1 (its support is said to be better than that of any other browser, 
>> IIRC).  It doesn't yet support CSS2.
>
>Well... from their top level page I clicked on "features" and went to 
>http://www.opera.com/features.html. That page does not say one word 
>about style sheets but at the bottom, under the heading "Modern and 
>Feature Rich" it lists items like:
>
>	+ HTML 3.2
>	+ FONT tag with color and size attribute supported.
>	+ FONT face support.

My apologies; I should have double-checked the web site before making that 
response.  While Opera does indeed support CSS1 quite well (and you *can*
find this out on its web site by searching for "CSS"), the obvious place to
look doesn't mention CSS at all.

>A number of other items are listed, but not style sheets. I would have 
>expected that if style sheets were supported they would be mentioned in 
>this list.
>
>Thus it appears that Opera needs to update their web site.

I agree.

        Dave

-- 
Dave Anderson (dave@daveanderson.com)

Software engineer seeking employment in the Greater Boston (Mass.) area.
Experience in operating systems, networks, compilers, client/server, and more.
Interest in databases and hardware design.
Proven ability to learn new environments quickly.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: suprdave@aol.comAolsucks                          12-Dec-99 20:49:19
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: suprdave@aol.comAolsucks (SUPRDAVE)

>On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:59:10 GMT, Buddy Donnelly
><donnelly@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>> > >Well, put it this way.  The program download (archive+installer) fits
>> > >on a
>> > >floppy disk.
>> > 
>> > I am concentrating all my cognitive powers in an attempt to imagine
>> > Netscape fitting on a floppy.  UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNHHHHHHH. 
>> > Concentrate!  CONCENTRATE!!!!!!!
>> 
>> Anybody still have a copy of that QNX (wasn't it?) demo browser from 
>> 2-3 years ago that could actually run from a booted floppy? The 
>> browser and the OS both fit on the floppy?
>
>My parents had one kicking around their house at one time, having a friend
>who works at QNX.  Its functionality was a bit crippled, but it was still
>really neat to see...
>
>-- 

yes, i've  a copy of that disk. pretty much works on any machine with at least
8meg although it takes a little while for everything to load into RAM. it
should be downloadable from qnx.com


D.B. Young.      Team OS/2!
-->this message printed on recycled disk space<--
visit the computers of yesteryear at
http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm
(now accepting donations!)
Delete the obvious (Aolsucks) to reply. 

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               12-Dec-99 14:32:18
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Marty wrote:

> Tim Martin wrote:
> >
> > Alan Boritz wrote:
> >
> > > Wipe your chin, take your kneepads, and get out of here, Timmy.
> >
> > Statements such as this confirm to all the
> > whining ass/fool you continually demonstrate
> > yourself to be.
>
> Statements such as this confirm to all the whining ass/fool you continually
> demonstrate yourself to be.

Not gonna play this game Marty.  Your personal desire
to start flame wars with those you have a personal
hatred for are simply not worth the time of day.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City (http://warpcity.com)
"We Close The Y2K Discount Door For '99 Members 12/15"


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: glend@nospam.direct.ca                            12-Dec-99 14:52:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Glenn Davies <glend@nospam.direct.ca>

On 12 Dec 1999 19:14:06 GMT, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

>As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>>    "Wolf Kirchmeir" <greywolf@onlink.net> said:
>> 
>> > You continually talk as if no one had any responsibilities to anyone. If
>> > you really believe that, you can't justify objections to anything anyone
>> > might do to you. So you don't like it! So what? If my only
>> > responsibility is to myself, why should I care whether you like it or
>> > not? I'll do what I like, and if it kills you, too bad.
>> 
>> Exactly. Using Lars P. Omberg's infantile attempt at logic, I should be
>> able to drive down the Queen Elizabeth II highway at 200 KPH in my Viper.
>> I know the law says I cannot exceed 100 KPH (in some areas at least if
>> memory serves), but I have decided that the law is invalid and that no
>> one's speed should be regulated by governments.
>
>If you can safely drive 200, why not?
>
>>                                                Therefore it is perfectly
>> right and moral for me to do 200 regardless of the harm I am likely to
>> cause to others on the road.
>
>The only harm you'll cause is from hitting somebody...and its just as
>possible to do so at half the speed.
>

People can cause accidents without themselves being involved in any
crash.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mamodeo@stny.rr.com                               12-Dec-99 18:12:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Marty <mamodeo@stny.rr.com>

Tim Martin wrote:
> 
> Marty wrote:
> 
> > Tim Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > Alan Boritz wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wipe your chin, take your kneepads, and get out of here, Timmy.
> > >
> > > Statements such as this confirm to all the
> > > whining ass/fool you continually demonstrate
> > > yourself to be.
> >
> > Statements such as this confirm to all the whining ass/fool you
continually
> > demonstrate yourself to be.
> 
> Not gonna play this game Marty.

You already have been, Tim.  The above is evidence of this.

> Your personal desire to start flame wars with those you have a personal
> hatred for are simply not worth the time of day.

I don't hate you Tim.  In fact, I kinda like you.  Your antics have been quite
amusing over the years.  As far as starting flame wars, that was not my
intention.  Rather, I intended to point out the irony of your statement.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jvarela@mind-spring.com                           12-Dec-99 22:27:20
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Making labels with Wordpro

From: jvarela@mind-spring.com (John Varela)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:57:00, Marvin Volz <mtve@hal-pc.org> wrote:

> From a spreedsheet with a table of names, addresses, etc. just "Create"
"Mailing
> labels" and follow the instructions. An Approach db will be created which
you can
> edit - fonts, etc. and you pick Avery label type.

Where is the format for that spreadsheet defined?  Will it 
automatically generate USPS bar codes? 

--
John Varela
to e-mail, remove - between mind and spring

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Vi...               12-Dec-99 22:44:11
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

Message sender: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca (Michel A Goyette)

Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:45:53, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michel A Goyette write:
> > Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:45:20, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:
> 
> > > > 	Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 
> > > > "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 
> > > > number of CPU sold.
> > > 
> > > Sure.  Microsoft has that right.
> > 
> > 	Not so, following their removal of this clause because of the 
> > anti-competition brought up by the DOJ.
> 
> They have the right whether or not the government declares the practise
> illegal.

	That's a wierd way to look at the law.
 
> > > You weren't forced to buy it in the first place.  The store placed
> > > conditions of sale on the product that you didn't like.  Then don't
support
> > > the store.
> > 
> > 	The problem is to find a store that didn't have this kind of 
> > "contract"
> 
> Yes, that is the problem.  If you don't want Windows, it is *your* problem.

	Well, I don't want Windows but I want a computer (ie CPU).  THAT is 
the problem...the choice of not having a computer with Windows.
 
> >                  since it would put them out of an advantageous contract 
> > compare to others (price of Windows higher and, hence, a higher price 
> > for the system).
> 
> For Windows systems.  But you aren't talking about Windows systems.  What
> about non-Windows systems?  Are you saying that there isn't a single place
> that sells non-Windows systems?  Nobody specializes to this niche market?

	There's no such thing as a niche market for empty computers.  When 
the choice to OEM/dealer was to accept this kind of contract or be 
excluded of the said deal is quite astonishing.  I'm not saying that 
MS is the only culprit on this one.
 
> > > >                                It's not about having Windows or not
> > > > on the system but having to pay anyway the "Microsof tax" on this
system.
> > > 
> > > The "Microsoft tax" is totally voluntary.  Nobody paid it that didn't
have
> > > to.
> > 
> > 	Well, since it was a "CPU tax", everyone paid it even if Windows 
> > wasn't installed on the machine since the OEM Windows price was based 
> > on the number of CPU sold.
> 
> I didn't say that the only people who paid it were people who installed
> Windows.  Everyone who bought a CPU from said dealer paid the tax...but they
> could have easily chosen not to pay it by not buying the CPU from said
dealer.

	If that was so easy, MS wouldn't be face to face with the DOJ now.

Salut,

	Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
	ICQ #13376913
	http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: nospam@savebandwidth.invalid                      12-Dec-99 19:54:17
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 19:56:11
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: nospam@savebandwidth.invalid       (John Thompson)

In <830js8$blt$1@info3.fnal.gov>, cytan@fnal.gov (Cheng-Yang Tan) writes:

>You know, as another commandline jock, I had wished from day one that
>the cmd window was more like the xterm window. The EPM and TakeCommand/2
>doesn't work like the xterm window, most stdio programmes just don't
>work in the same window (e.g. ls) where the command is typed which to me is
>unacceptable. 
>
>If someone were to write a set of VIO*.DLL's to take over the default
>VIO*.DLLs so that this works, I'd pay real money for it.

You can always run Xfree86-OS/2 and use an xterm shell window
there...

-John (John.Thompson@attglobal.net)

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              12-Dec-99 15:40:24
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 21:19:04
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article <830gvf$hjj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, innoval@ibm.net wrote:
>Bob, we didn't do everything right. I know that. We learned.

No you didn't.

>We failed
>at the OS/2 market. Partly it was the market and partly it was blunders
>on our part.

No, it was mostly blunders on YOUR part.  The market was always there, but you
refused to believe that the customers you screwed would talk to other
potential customers and possibly spread news that your support sucked, and
your employees were poorly managed.  What I particularly find amazing is the
number of times you publicly state this, while introducing something else to
separate OS/2 users from their cash.  Maybe YOU can try to rewrite history,
but not everyone's going to buy your line of bullshit.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au                    12-Dec-99 23:18:21
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 21:19:04
Subj: Re: Mysterious File

From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)

Phillip A. Hawke <iridtacw@ssimicro.com> wrote:
>Thanks to all who answered my bootup order question. And now one more: what
>is the file EA_DATA.SF.?

Others have answered this question, but I just want to make a couple of
other points:

1. The file in question exists only on FAT partitions.  If you're using
   FAT, you're probably not getting the best out of OS/2.  Try looking
   into HPFS, it's far better.  The FAT file system basically has only
   two uses (a) for use on very small disks, e.g. floppies (or those
   20 MB hard disks that used to be standard on PCs years ago);
   (b) for partitions that must also be accessed by a Microsoft
   operating system.

2. Some of my web pages are devoted to answering the sorts of questions
   you're asking.  Take a look at the URL in my signature.

-- 
Peter Moylan                                         peter@ee.newcastle.edu.au
See http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au for OS/2 information and software

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: djm16@le.ac.uk                                    12-Dec-99 23:34:20
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 21:19:04
Subj: StarOffice upgrade in small bits

From: djm16@le.ac.uk (Dr D.J. Maconochie)

I have tried to download the latest upgrade to StarOffice around 10 times now.
The furthest I have got is around 30 Mb before losing the connection and
wasting
the file.

Is the upgrade packaged somewhere in <10 Mb chunks?

Thanks 

David Maconochie

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  12-Dec-99 23:39:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 21:19:04
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michel A Goyette write:
> Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:45:53, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:
> 
> > As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michel A Goyette write:
> > > Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:45:20, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) a ‚crit:
> > 
> > > > > 	Well, as a matter of fact, there was some kind of "contract" called 

> > > > > "The per CPU contract".  The cost of Windows to OEM was based on the 

> > > > > number of CPU sold.
> > > > 
> > > > Sure.  Microsoft has that right.
> > > 
> > > 	Not so, following their removal of this clause because of the 
> > > anti-competition brought up by the DOJ.
> > 
> > They have the right whether or not the government declares the practise
> > illegal.
> 
> 	That's a wierd way to look at the law.

It's the way that refuses to accept the notion that the law is holy and
untouchable and always right.

That if a law takes away your right, the right wasn't invalid, the law is.

> > > 	The problem is to find a store that didn't have this kind of 
> > > "contract"
> > 
> > Yes, that is the problem.  If you don't want Windows, it is *your*
problem.
> 
> 	Well, I don't want Windows but I want a computer (ie CPU).  THAT is 
> the problem...the choice of not having a computer with Windows.

You've just made that choice.

NOW you have to find someone who will sell you that.  Remember that if
nobody wants to sell you something, you can't just declare that you have the
"right" to take it from them.

> > >                  since it would put them out of an advantageous contract 

> > > compare to others (price of Windows higher and, hence, a higher price 
> > > for the system).
> > 
> > For Windows systems.  But you aren't talking about Windows systems.  What
> > about non-Windows systems?  Are you saying that there isn't a single place
> > that sells non-Windows systems?  Nobody specializes to this niche market?
> 
> 	There's no such thing as a niche market for empty computers.

If there's no niche market and no mainstream market than there's no market,
and nobody should care.

>                                                                When 
> the choice to OEM/dealer was to accept this kind of contract or be 
> excluded of the said deal is quite astonishing.  I'm not saying that 
> MS is the only culprit on this one.

I'm saying there's no "culprit" at all.


> > I didn't say that the only people who paid it were people who installed
> > Windows.  Everyone who bought a CPU from said dealer paid the tax...but
> > they could have easily chosen not to pay it by not buying the CPU from
> > said dealer.
> 
> 	If that was so easy, MS wouldn't be face to face with the DOJ now.

That has nothing to do with the DOJ's actions.

--
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: djohnson@isomedia.com                             12-Dec-99 16:38:02
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 21:19:04
Subj: Re: StarOffice upgrade in small bits

From: "David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com>

Dr D.J. Maconochie wrote:
> 
> I have tried to download the latest upgrade to StarOffice around 10 times
now.
> The furthest I have got is around 30 Mb before losing the connection and
wasting
> the file.
> 
> Is the upgrade packaged somewhere in <10 Mb chunks?

I didn't know there was an upgrade.  Do you have a URL?  As far as the
download, the best thing would be an FTP site where you could resume an
interrupted download.  Is there FTP available?  

> 
> Thanks
> 
> David Maconochie

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: djohnson@isomedia.com                             12-Dec-99 16:44:28
  To: All                                               12-Dec-99 21:19:04
Subj: Re: Winos2 problem

From: "David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com>

Michel A Goyette wrote:
> 
> Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:35:46, JC <jcleveland@carolina.rr.com> a ‚crit:
> 
> > I have a problem with winos2. I installed os/2 on a 4gb drive using
> > HPFS, no problem, I have 3771mb free. But
> > winos2 thinks that drive c: is full and I can't install anything under
> > winos2. It reports c: okb free  0kb total.
> > Can someone help? Thanks.
> 
>         That's because there's a 2GB limit in DOS.  If you have more than
> that, the "free" space reported becomes negative.  Look at Hobbes for
> the 2GBfix file (or something like that) that you put in your
> AUTOEXEC.BAT, it works.  HTH.

The problem isn't with the total size of the space, it is with the size
of the 'free' space available.  If the amount of available space is more
than about 2 GB, the Win-OS2 installer thinks the disk is full.  I don't
know about the fix mentioned above but, if it doesn't do the job,
another easy fix is just to reduce the amount of free space by copying
some large files into a new directory.  Then delete these later when you
have some real data to fill the space with.  

> 
> Salut,
> 
>         Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
>         ICQ #13376913
>         http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               12-Dec-99 20:38:09
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>For too long, union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics of threats and
>intimidation have harmed the owners of reputable corporations, and it is
>time for this crap to stop.

I asked you to document this before. You run for cover like a dip-shit
coward every time someone puts you on the spot -- so are you gone cite
examples or hide again?



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 19:15:01
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:

> >For too long, union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics of threats and
> >intimidation have harmed the owners of reputable corporations, and it is
> >time for this crap to stop.
>
> I asked you to document this before. You run for cover like a dip-shit
> coward every time someone puts you on the spot -- so are you gone cite
> examples or hide again?

How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in 1997?
How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?

To list three...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          13-Dec-99 02:38:08
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:38:18, letoured@nospam.net wrote:

> Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:
> 
> >For too long, union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics of threats and
> >intimidation have harmed the owners of reputable corporations, 

Have they succeeded in locating one of them? I thought that search 
project had been cancelled in Y1ARRP (Year 1 After Ronald Reagan 
Presidency). Like buttonhooks for shoe buttons, they'd just flat gone 
out of style?


> and it is
> >time for this crap to stop.
> 
> I asked you to document this before. You run for cover like a dip-shit
> coward every time someone puts you on the spot -- so are you gone cite
> examples or hide again?

Y'all both'd be better served as arguers by adding in some wit and 
subtracting out some invective? Or conduct profane crosstalk via 
email? Or just drop it 'cause neither's name-calling is going to 
change the opposer's mind?

USENET: Keep it clean and shiny. Or lose it.

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    13-Dec-99 02:50:17
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:19
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

You proved yourself as a liar a long time ago so why do you continue to
believe that you will be taken seriously?  Like I said, the impact wasn't
hard enough.

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From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    13-Dec-99 02:53:04
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:19
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

In article <38542283.F14569D2@WarpCity.com>,
Tim Martin  <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>Marty wrote:
>
>> Tim Martin wrote:
>> >
>> > Alan Boritz wrote:
>> >
>> > > Wipe your chin, take your kneepads, and get out of here, Timmy.
>> >
>> > Statements such as this confirm to all the
>> > whining ass/fool you continually demonstrate
>> > yourself to be.
>>
>> Statements such as this confirm to all the whining ass/fool you continually
>> demonstrate yourself to be.
>
>Not gonna play this game Marty.  Your personal desire
>to start flame wars with those you have a personal
>hatred for are simply not worth the time of day.

This coming from somebody that does just that, priceless.  So was it an
airbag or a seatbelt that kept you free to spew hypocrisy?

>
>Tim Martin
>The OS/2 Guy
>Warp City (http://warpcity.com)
>"We Close The Y2K Discount Door For '99 Members 12/15"
>
>


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From: fake@forgitaboutit.com                            13-Dec-99 03:07:04
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: David H. McCoy <fake@forgitaboutit.com>

In article <QhAV4gBhDm2M092yn@cybernex.net>, aboritz@cybernex.net says...
>In article <830gvf$hjj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, innoval@ibm.net wrote:
>>Bob, we didn't do everything right. I know that. We learned.
>
>No you didn't.
>
>>We failed
>>at the OS/2 market. Partly it was the market and partly it was blunders
>>on our part.
>
>No, it was mostly blunders on YOUR part.  The market was always there, but
you
>refused to believe that the customers you screwed would talk to other
>potential customers and possibly spread news that your support sucked, and
>your employees were poorly managed.  What I particularly find amazing is the
>number of times you publicly state this, while introducing something else to
>separate OS/2 users from their cash.  Maybe YOU can try to rewrite history,
>but not everyone's going to buy your line of bullshit.
>

Hardly fair. OS/2 is simply unable to sustain a ISV on just about any level. 
Many try and eventually, one by one, they leave.



-- 
---------------------------------------
David H. McCoy
dmccoy@EXTRACT_THIS_mnsinc.com
---------------------------------------

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From: lonewulf@earthling.net                            13-Dec-99 00:58:20
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: ProNews/2 & XHDR Command

From: lonewulf@earthling.net (Bill Gillespie)

Hello
 
My news server doesn't support the XHDR Command, can someone
please tell me how I can turn it off in ProNews/2??
 
Thanks in advance.

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From: sma.spam-not@rtd.com                              13-Dec-99 02:01:05
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Networking a HP LaserJet4...

From: James Moe <sma.spam-not@rtd.com>


"Stephen Eickhoff (remove the - to reply)" wrote:
> 
> You can configure printers from any browser using WebJetAdmin. However, you
> escape the fact that will probably need a really powerful server running
> Windows NT to host it.
> 
   My pentium1/90 is hosting the WebJetAdmin service. I.e., it is
running the HTTP server for WebJetAdmin. I connect to myself to
configure a printer.
   It is rather slow...

-- 

sma at rtd dot com
Remove ".spam-not" for email

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From: larso@commodore.                                  13-Dec-99 03:32:09
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> On 10 Dec 1999 00:26:43 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> 
> =>The freedom to act based on your own interests.
> =>
> =>Not hard to grasp.
> 
> Ah, I thought you would say something like that.
> 
> Of course if you cannot grasp your own interest, you're in deep shit. And
> will cause a lof shit, too. So we, who will be harmed by your blinkered
> notion of what your interests are, will have tp punish you -- entirely to
> advance our own interest, of course! Our freedom allows us to curtail yours.

Only when I try to impede on yours.  Because my freedom doesn't allow me to
obstruct your freedom.  For example, I can't tell you who you can and can
not associate with.  Or sell to.  Or what price to sell at.


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     12-Dec-99 19:58:14
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


Lars P Ormberg wrote:

> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Wolf Kirchmeir write:
> > On 10 Dec 1999 00:26:43 GMT, Lars P Ormberg wrote:
> >
> > =>The freedom to act based on your own interests.
> > =>
> > =>Not hard to grasp.
> >
> > Ah, I thought you would say something like that.
> >
> > Of course if you cannot grasp your own interest, you're in deep shit. And
> > will cause a lof shit, too. So we, who will be harmed by your blinkered
> > notion of what your interests are, will have tp punish you -- entirely to
> > advance our own interest, of course! Our freedom allows us to curtail
yours.
>
> Only when I try to impede on yours.  Because my freedom doesn't allow me to
> obstruct your freedom.  For example, I can't tell you who you can and can
> not associate with.  Or sell to.  Or what price to sell at.

If you price a good below cost then you impede a freedom - a probable
violation of
international trade laws.  Even MS was capable of arguing they were going to
make
up money on web browser hits and advertisements.

When you refuse to sell to a religion or race you impede a freedom - a basic
human
right.  It's no wonder property rights were used to justify slavery and the
physical abuse those humans  -- now it is used by you to defend discrimination 
and
economic crimes.  Such are the advocates of a monopoly.  Thank god MS is a
forward
looking, progressive company that wouldn't in it's darkest hour associate with
your freedoms.


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From: rsteiner@visi.com                                 12-Dec-99 22:19:08
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner)

Here in comp.os.os2.marketplace, aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)
spake unto us, saying:

>No, Doug, "a ton" there isn't, not hardly.  Depending upon your choice of
>delivery, the choice is certainly less than 5.  The choice of NNTP (and
>mail) clients with active support (now) is now down to 1.

There are considerably more than five newsreaders for OS/2, Alan.

-- 
   -Rich Steiner  >>>--->  rsteiner@visi.com  >>>---> Bloomington, MN
     OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
      + VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
                  * SLMR 2.0 #694 * Just kidding!!!  :-)

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From: miharris@connectcorp.net                          13-Dec-99 04:50:29
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: miharris@connectcorp.net

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:20:03, aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz) 
wrote:

 
Quotedl>I'm pretty sure I got the newsreader for free too.
Quotedl
QuotedlOnly if you got your registration key in a warez newsgroup, I'm
afraid.  The
Quotedlrest of us paid for it, and received no support assistance when it
wouldn't
Quotedlwork.  Innoval never released a free registration code for that
product.

You're WAY out of line here,... I got a FREE copy of the newsreader 
(not warez).  It was free to those of us who purchased the GREEN 
version of PRM v1.0. .... then again,... that may have been long 
before you came on board as an os/2'er!   Next, time be a little more 
careful about (accusing ppl of illegal actions) sticking your foot in 
your mouth,... you may have accidently stepped in something!  ;^)

                        _\\|//_    Pssst!
                       (` o-o ') /
        ---------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------

The Box said, "Requires Windows95 or better."
I use better, much better thank you...
                                         
Warped with OS/2 4.0 at FP 8 and Java 1.1.7A
_______________________________________
M   i   k   e   "D a B u l l"     H   a   r   r   i   s       

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  
Undernet
#OS/2: Chanop 
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  

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From: letoured@nospam.net                               12-Dec-99 21:29:17
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

 larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:


>A contract isn't legal if it requires you to do something illegal.

larso you have refused to agree with this in the past. Now you are chasing
you own tail and repeating the same tired lines of crap that no one eles
(but your nut job friends here) agree with.  

What I want to know is; are you ever going to have anything worth saying?



>But if the 'something' in question SHOULDN'T BE illegal, then having the
>clause in the contract shouldn't be illegal either.  And therefore having
>the clause in the contract is perfectly just.

>> Get Mommy to explain this to you.

Actually, you do need a tutor, because you're the slowest student I've
ever seen.


_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: Skree@stubble.jumpers                             12-Dec-99 22:52:00
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Skree@stubble.jumpers

In <3853ffd7_4@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/12/99 
   at 01:03 PM, "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

Q}> This is really intelligent coming from a guy who is in favor of
Q}> union busting.

Q}Yes.

Q}I advocate union busting.  That does not mean I advocate harm to
Q}individual union members.  It means that I advocate the decertification
Q}and breaking up of unions.

Q}For too long, union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics of threats and
Q}intimidation have harmed the owners of reputable corporations, and it is
Q}time for this crap to stop.

Q}Anything which undermines a union's influence is good.
Q}----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q}What have YOU done to bust a union today?
Q}----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q}Work better: Work union-free.

Q}Steven C. Britton
Q}Calgary

Q}www.cadvision.com/sbritton

Go ahead bust some unions - and while you're at it - get rid of medicare,
old age pensions, all pensions for that matter, universal school
educations all labour codes - including health and safety, minimum wage
standards, human rights, environmental laws, just cause dismissals, and
thousands of other good laws and societal standards that unions have
fought for in this country.

It is strange, that if not for the unions you hate so much - you probably
wouldn't even have the public voice with which to decry their existence.

 



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kenn Sunley
MR/2 ICE ver 1.60 reg'd
Date: 1999.12.12
Time: 22:52:01 - -0600

Warp 4
233Mhz PII
ATI Xpert@work
Gradd Rocks - thank you IBM
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Vi...               13-Dec-99 03:36:12
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Winos2 problem

Message sender: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca

From: Exovede@ImpaleTheSpammers.Com@Videotron.ca (Michel A Goyette)

Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:44:57, "David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com> 
a ‚crit:

> Michel A Goyette wrote:
> > 
> > Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:35:46, JC <jcleveland@carolina.rr.com> a ‚crit:
> > 
> > > I have a problem with winos2. I installed os/2 on a 4gb drive using
> > > HPFS, no problem, I have 3771mb free. But
> > > winos2 thinks that drive c: is full and I can't install anything under
> > > winos2. It reports c: okb free  0kb total.
> > > Can someone help? Thanks.
> > 
> >         That's because there's a 2GB limit in DOS.  If you have more than
> > that, the "free" space reported becomes negative.  Look at Hobbes for
> > the 2GBfix file (or something like that) that you put in your
> > AUTOEXEC.BAT, it works.  HTH.
> 
> The problem isn't with the total size of the space, it is with the size
> of the 'free' space available.  If the amount of available space is more
> than about 2 GB, the Win-OS2 installer thinks the disk is full.  I don't

	It is what I was refering about...the free space.

> know about the fix mentioned above but, if it doesn't do the job,
> another easy fix is just to reduce the amount of free space by copying
> some large files into a new directory.  Then delete these later when you
> have some real data to fill the space with.  

	I had to install a software in DOS that wouldn't want to install 
because the free space seen was zero (or negative).  I installed 
2GBfix that returns always 2GB of free space if there's more than that
and it worked.

Salut,

	Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
	ICQ #13376913
	http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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From: jcleveland@carolina.rr.com                        13-Dec-99 03:29:27
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Winos2 problem

From: JC <jcleveland@carolina.rr.com>

Just wanted to let you know, I downloaded the 2GBFIX.EXE file from Hobbes
and it worked like a champ. Thanks alot for your assistance, and to everyone
that responded.

Jon Cleveland




Michel A Goyette wrote:

> Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:35:46, JC <jcleveland@carolina.rr.com> a ‚crit:
>
> > I have a problem with winos2. I installed os/2 on a 4gb drive using
> > HPFS, no problem, I have 3771mb free. But
> > winos2 thinks that drive c: is full and I can't install anything under
> > winos2. It reports c: okb free  0kb total.
> > Can someone help? Thanks.
>
>         That's because there's a 2GB limit in DOS.  If you have more than
> that, the "free" space reported becomes negative.  Look at Hobbes for
> the 2GBfix file (or something like that) that you put in your
> AUTOEXEC.BAT, it works.  HTH.
>
> Salut,
>
>         Michel (sur OS/2 Warp 4.07)
>         ICQ #13376913
>         http://pages.infinit.net/exovede

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  13-Dec-99 03:36:25
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw letoured@nospam.net write:
> larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:
> 
> >> No. It about the continuing inability and/or refusal of you and few
others
> >> here to see reality and to use Humpty Dumpty definitions for the words
you
> >> choose to use. 
> 
> >Monopolies requiring a lack of competition?
> >Coercion requiring the use of force to restrain?
> >These are "Humpty Dumpty definitions"?
> 
> I have no idea what you are trying to state here.  Why don't you try
> again. 

Because you won't understand it then, either.

Humpty Dumpty where you're from clearly means "something far above my own
level of comprehension".

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: whonea@codenet.net                                12-Dec-99 20:54:01
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: CDRECORD, MULTISESSION and editing OS2CDROM.DMD...

From: whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 05:35:15, mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) 
wrote:

> Ok you guys...
> 
> I've been working on tackling the creation of multisession cdroms using
> warp connect, cdrecord 18a32, adaptec aha1522b and a yamaha 4416s...
> 
> The short story is, I have it working, but it's not 100% correct.

Have you looked at 
ftp://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/os2/system/drivers/cdrom/jjscdrom_19991108.z
ip ?  There is an email contact given for the contributor and it 
sounds like there may be a bit of synergy in what he's done and what 
you're doing.

Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

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From: jim.danvers@mindex.com                            12-Dec-99 23:02:19
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: 2 Questions:  Video Driver & SendMail

From: Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com>

Hi folks...

I have been playing around w/Warp V4 on a spare machine for a little
over a week or so now (on & off again as time would permit) and have
finally taken "the plunge" and installed it on both of my machines here
@home.  (I'm still dual booting one of 'em though so's that I can get
back to Win95 where I have a much higher "comfort zone").

Question(s):

(1)  I have both boxes running Warp V4 FP9.  I had to go into the TCPIP
settings and configure the local hosts name lookup (when no real
nameserver is available) so that I could ping the other machines in the
house.  Upon exiting the IP cfg thing though, it always asks me
something about having sendmail start automatically for use
w/UltiMail...   I don't plan on using this mail package - how can I turn
this send mail thing off other that CTRL+Esc'ing to bring it to the
desktop and then CTRL+C'ing it??  I don't ~need~ to have that thing
running do I?  9I don't believe so....)

(2)  The first box that I have OS/2 on is an old Compaq Deskpro XL 5120
that I'm using strictly as a "file server" - everything on it works
outstandingly (although I couldn't get the compaq business audio to
work, but no biggie.... )  The second box is also working great as well,
although I do have one issue - I'm hoping to locate a video driver for
the Diamond Stealth II S220 video card that I have in this box.  I
believe that it is an S3 (Virge??) chipset on the card - its definately
a PCI board - that much I do know.  Anyone know where I might be able to
locate a good driver for this card?  I would like to be able to get
1024*768 @32k colors or better out of it.  I have "heard" (read)
something about "GenGRADD" - what is this?  Is it, like freeware
(preferably!)?

Enough for now - appreciate any assistance that anyone may be able to
provide!

-=- J.D. -=-


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From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca                           13-Dec-99 04:25:25
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:20
Subj: Re: 2 Questions:  Video Driver & SendMail

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:02:38, Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com> 
wrote:

> Hi folks...
> 
> I have been playing around w/Warp V4 on a spare machine for a little
> over a week or so now (on & off again as time would permit) and have
> finally taken "the plunge" and installed it on both of my machines here
> @home.  (I'm still dual booting one of 'em though so's that I can get
> back to Win95 where I have a much higher "comfort zone").
> 
> Question(s):
> 
> (1)  I have both boxes running Warp V4 FP9.  I had to go into the TCPIP
> settings and configure the local hosts name lookup (when no real
> nameserver is available) so that I could ping the other machines in the
> house.  Upon exiting the IP cfg thing though, it always asks me
> something about having sendmail start automatically for use
> w/UltiMail...   I don't plan on using this mail package - how can I turn
> this send mail thing off other that CTRL+Esc'ing to bring it to the
> desktop and then CTRL+C'ing it??  I don't ~need~ to have that thing
> running do I?  9I don't believe so....)

Sendmail is only necessary if you are using UltiMail for E-Mail
on the machine. UltiMail uses sendmail in "server" mode for
processing outgoing mail. Usually you can tell it NOT to 
auto start sendmail. (of course you do have to tell it that
every time.... :-)

The startup of sendmail is done in the TCPSTART.CMD
file that lives in the \TCPIP\BIN directory. It's a normal
CMD file so you can just REM the line that starts sendmail.

> 
> (2)  The first box that I have OS/2 on is an old Compaq Deskpro XL 5120
> that I'm using strictly as a "file server" - everything on it works
> outstandingly (although I couldn't get the compaq business audio to
> work, but no biggie.... )  The second box is also working great as well,
> although I do have one issue - I'm hoping to locate a video driver for
> the Diamond Stealth II S220 video card that I have in this box.  I
> believe that it is an S3 (Virge??) chipset on the card - its definately
> a PCI board - that much I do know.  Anyone know where I might be able to
> locate a good driver for this card?  I would like to be able to get
> 1024*768 @32k colors or better out of it.  I have "heard" (read)
> something about "GenGRADD" - what is this?  Is it, like freeware
> (preferably!)?

The IBM GRADD drivers provide support for the S3 Virge
chipset (and others). If the specific chipset is not supported
the GENGRADD GENeral GRADD varient supports VESA
BIOS compliant SVGA cards.

You can obtain the GRADD drivers from

URL 

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/videopak/graddbb/gradd080.e
xe

That should be one line if it wraps.

> 
> Enough for now - appreciate any assistance that anyone may be able to
> provide!

Have fun

--

Lorne Sunley

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           13-Dec-99 00:26:16
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3853fd63_4@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/12/99 at 12:53 PM,
   "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

> Very true.  If Lars were employed by the U of A, you would have a valid
> argument.

> He isn't -- he's a student there.  Students do not represent their
> university.

And students can be expelled for conduct detrimental to the good name of
the University.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           13-Dec-99 00:28:22
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3853C64C.3391518@ibm.net>, on 12/12/99 at 10:59 AM,
   Joseph <josco@ibm.net> said:

> I have a problem understanding vulgar metaphors.   It's probably because 
> I don't encounter them in my day-to-day life and I don't use them in
> conversation at work or home.  The vulgarities which are second nature
> to you tend to be confusing to other people.

There is a very, very popular book in print here in the US called, "Don't
Piss on My Leg and Tell Me It's Raining." It was written by a New York
State Supreme Court Judge, Judith Shindlein who now has a TV show called
"Judge Judy".

The expression is not vulgar.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 22:40:15
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Joseph wrote:
>
> If you price a good below cost then you impede a freedom - a probable
violation of
> international trade laws.  Even MS was capable of arguing they were going
to make
> up money on web browser hits and advertisements.

Again, you're confusing "legality" with "morality".  The two are not the
same.

It may be ILLEGAL to price a good below cost, but it is certainly not
IMMORAL to do so.

Of course, the fact that it is ILLEGAL to price a good below cost just
simply proves how tyrranical and oppressive our governments really are: if
someone wants to sell a widget below the cost of manufacture, it's their own
stupidity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 22:50:22
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Kenn Sunley wrote:

> Go ahead bust some unions - and while you're at it - get rid of medicare,
...

Sure!

> old age pensions, ...

Absolutely!

> ... all pensions for that matter,

People should be responsible for their own pensions.  If the company they
work for wants to set up a group pension plan, that's fine too.  Government
has no responsibility in the matter.

> universal school educations ...

Without a doubt!

> all labour codes - including health and safety...

Don't work for companies that don't keep responsible health and safety
codes.  You don't need a union to uphold that.  If nobody works for such a
company, they can't produce; and therefore they disappear.

... or, at least, only those willing to work in those conditions would work
there, and the company wouldn't produce _good_ stuff, and they'd disappear.

> ... minimum wage standards...

Sure!  Minimum wage kills jobs.

> human rights...

Don't be stupid.

The only human rights are (a) the right to life, (b) the right to liberty,
and (c) the right to own and enjoy property.

Any other "right" is a fictitious construct.

> ... environmental laws...

Sure!  If a company isn't being environmentally responsible, then people
won't do business with them.

> just cause dismissals ...

Unions have nothing to do with that; it's a violation of one's right to
liberty because the company, by not dismissing with just cause, is
initiating force against the person they're canning.

> and thousands of other good laws and societal standards that unions have
> fought for in this country.

There aren't any.

> It is strange, that if not for the unions you hate so much - you probably
> wouldn't even have the public voice with which to decry their existence.

That's pure, unadulterated crap.  The three rights I listed above have
always existed and will always exist.  Unions had nothing to do with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: letoured@nospam.net                               13-Dec-99 00:43:26
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>> >For too long, union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics of threats and
>> >intimidation have harmed the owners of reputable corporations, and it is
>> >time for this crap to stop.
>>
>> I asked you to document this before. You run for cover like a dip-shit
>> coward every time someone puts you on the spot -- so are you gone cite
>> examples or hide again?

>How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in 1997?
>How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
>How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?

Need more details here big guy.

Item 1. The reports I see is about asking customers to boycott Safeway,
and 4 or 5 workers being arrested for making threats to strike breakers --
that's real dangerous stuff up you have up there. 

Item 2.  Calgary Herald. According to what I see, the readership has
falled 45% because of public support for the union. Didn't find the
violence stuff in the news. 

Item 3.  All I see on the violence is, well I'll quote a witness; "I guess
his fingers [the Bank Manager] got hurt on someone's windpipe."

Got any more examples of the big bad unions? Anything beyond Canada? Is
this your best "union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics" stuff?



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 22:51:24
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> > He isn't -- he's a student there.  Students do not represent their
> > university.
>
> And students can be expelled for conduct detrimental to the good name of
> the University.

... and (a) he isn't being detrimental to the "good name of the University";
(b) your motivation for your assault against him is based solely on hatred.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            12-Dec-99 23:01:02
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:
>
> >How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in 1997?
> >How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
> >How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?
>
> Need more details here big guy.
>
> Item 1. The reports I see is about asking customers to boycott Safeway,
> and 4 or 5 workers being arrested for making threats to strike breakers --
> that's real dangerous stuff up you have up there.

Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.

I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.

> Item 2.  Calgary Herald. According to what I see, the readership has
> falled 45% because of public support for the union.

Not this reader...

In fact, I'm thinking of putting my subscription back to daily.

> Didn't find the violence stuff in the news.

Funny.  Workers have been arrested.

> Item 3.  All I see on the violence is, well I'll quote a witness; "I guess
> his fingers [the Bank Manager] got hurt on someone's windpipe."

There's been many CUPW walkouts (most near Christmas -- go figure).

> Got any more examples of the big bad unions? Anything beyond Canada? Is
> this your best "union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics" stuff?

Check into the last Ontario election and what the union goons did to the
Mike Harris campaign (he won, by the way).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: miharris@connectcorp.net                          13-Dec-99 05:14:09
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: miharris@connectcorp.net

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:40:48, aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz) 
wrote:

 
QuotedlNo, it was mostly blunders on YOUR part.  The market was always there, 
but you
Quotedlrefused to believe that the customers you screwed would talk to other
Quotedlpotential customers and possibly spread news that your support sucked, 
and
Quotedlyour employees were poorly managed.  What I particularly find amazing
is the
Quotedlnumber of times you publicly state this, while introducing something
else to
Quotedlseparate OS/2 users from their cash.  Maybe YOU can try to rewrite
history,
Quotedlbut not everyone's going to buy your line of bullshit.

Well, I for one don't know how many Innoval products YOU purchased,...
but I own PRM, JWM, WWW, and NetEXTRA.  One a scale of 1-10, I rated 
their tech-support a "9".  They did dropped the ball a couple of times
and (Linda, sorry if I forget her name) did get flippant with me on at
least one occasion in an email correspondence, but hey, everyone is 
entitled to a bad day!   On the whole, I was very pleased with their 
tech support,... I found them to be knowledable and to project an 
attitude that they truely did care!   Sorry, if you didn't have a 
similar experience, but if the attitude you're projecting in this NG 
is indicative of how you correspond with ppl,.... one doesn't have to 
wonder why!

                        _\\|//_    Pssst!
                       (` o-o ') /
        ---------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------

The Box said, "Requires Windows95 or better."
I use better, much better thank you...
                                         
Warped with OS/2 4.0 at FP 8 and Java 1.1.7A
_______________________________________
M   i   k   e   "D a B u l l"     H   a   r   r   i   s       

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  
Undernet
#OS/2: Chanop
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu                     13-Dec-99 05:34:22
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu

In article <831n2l$r5c@peabody.colorado.edu>,
  bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen) wrote:

> So was it an airbag or a seatbelt that kept you free to spew
> hypocrisy?

Now that was uncalled for. Good God man, have you no sense of decency?

--
-Steven Hunter                *OS/2 Warp 4 * |But on the other hand...|
hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu *AMD K6-2 400* |There's 5 more fingers. |


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               13-Dec-99 00:09:20
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 03:31:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) said:

>> >> No. It about the continuing inability and/or refusal of you and few
others
>> >> here to see reality and to use Humpty Dumpty definitions for the words
you
>> >> choose to use. 
>> >Monopolies requiring a lack of competition?
>> >Coercion requiring the use of force to restrain?
> >These are "Humpty Dumpty definitions"?
>> 
>> I have no idea what you are trying to state here.  Why don't you try
>> again. 

>Because you won't understand it then, either.

>Humpty Dumpty where you're from clearly means "something far above my own
>level of comprehension".

Like your understanding of law and the Englishing speaking world wide
definition of monopoly?  No larso you're just playing asshole without an
answer, because you can't even explain your own bull.

_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rlackl1@attglobal.net                             13-Dec-99 02:30:08
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 05:13:27
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: rlackl1@attglobal.net

In <3859ea15.5012307@news.borg.com>, on 12/12/99 
   at 06:36 PM, jglatt@spamgone-borg.com (Jeff Glatt) said:

>What's so exemplary about leaving the OS/2 marketplace? Virtually all
>commercial OS/2 developers have done so by now, and I have no doubt that
>countless other developers have done so too. Hell, a great number of
>endusers have done so too. It's not like leaving behind OS/2 is uncommon.
>Just ask IBM and they'll tell you (in a leaked memo, probably)

Actually, at least a year ago I mentioned that I was an OS/2 user to our
'friendly' IBM (mainframe) CE, and he smirked and said that IBM wasn't
going to continue supporting it.  OS/2 still runs on the IOSP boxes that
control the big IBM boxes, but I don't know for how much longer.

-------
rlackl1@attglobal.net
-------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jr_fox@earthlink.net                              12-Dec-99 22:43:25
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 05:13:28
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: "J. R. Fox" <jr_fox@earthlink.net>

Kim Cheung wrote:

> Poorly written monolithic programs - or half-hearted ported Windows programs
> - unfortunately, does cause headache from time to time (like the DumbSuite
> for OS/2, and Netscape).    Warp 4 added sometime to monitor the queue and
> make it a little easier to clear the queue but it is not a "non-issue".
>
> In general, it's an overblown issue used by Windoze nuts to attack OS/2.

Unfortunately, Netscape is a pretty critical app. for most of us, and it is
the
one thing (via SIQ, or however this works) *by far* most likely to lock my
system up tight as a drum, requiring a hard Reset, followed by CHKDSK runs
against multiple drives from a Maintenance boot -- the whole 9 yards.  This
has
been the case with 4.61, and 2.02 before that.  It may not happen frequently,
but still often enough to amount to a major PITA.

<jfox>



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jknott@ibm.net                                    12-Dec-99 09:59:29
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 10:24:20
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: jknott@ibm.net (James Knott)

I assume this offer is valid only in the U.S.?  :-(


In article <3851A98F.459420AF@WarpCity.com>,
Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>Here's some hot news for all you NON-Warp City Members:
>
>FST Inc, has joined in a business partnership arrangement
>with National DialUp Services and InnoVal Systems Solutions,
>to provide a low-cost nationwide ISP service for OS/2 users.
>ISP800, a private brand ISP for corporate customers, is
>inaugurating service for consumers on January 3,  2000.
>
>Extra special prices are available for any OS/2 user who
>pre-registers for  the service by December 30, 1999. In
>addition, three subscribers will be selected, at random,
>from the first 100 OS/2 users who signup. These three
>subscribers will receive free ISP service for one year until
>December 31, 2000.
>
>Highlights of ISP800 service include:
>
>Your choice of:
>
>Unlimited 56K access through an 800 dialup number or unlimited service
>using a local dialup number.
>
>A high performance and high capacity POP3 email mailbox
>
>SMTP outbound email
>
>Toll free 24/7 technical support
>
>Very low cost for OS/2 users. ISP800 may also be used with Linux,
>Mac, and  Windows95/98 client platforms.
>
>No signup fees. You may cancel the service at the end of any month.
>
>Anyone who travels, uses the Internet from more than one permanent
>location, or lives in an area not supported by a local access number,
>is encouraged to use the 800 number. Performance on the 800 number
>is equal to that of local access numbers since all connections are
>automatically and instantly re-directed through a close-proximity
>modem. Access with the 800 number is available anywhere in the
>United States where a dial tone is available. THERE IS NEVER AN
>ADDITIONAL FEE FOR USING THE 800 NUMBER TO ACCESS ISP800.
>Airfone (in plane service) and some hotels do charge access
>fees when you dial an 800 number.
>
>ISP800 Prices:
>
>    Regular service:   $19.95
>    For all OS/2 Users:   $15.95 ***
>
>*** Anyone who pre-registers for the service by December 30, 1999, will
>receive the first year of service for only $11.95 per month. You must be
>an
>OS/2 user to pre-register at this price. Your pre-registration must be
>received by 5:00pm on 12/30/99.
>
>Additional email accounts are $3.95 per month. Limit is four additional
>email accounts.
>
>Please note: There is no direct USENET newsgroup access at this time. If
>
>enough OS/2 users subscribe and there is sufficient interest, ISP800
>will
>add newsgroup access for OS/2 users. Deja (dejanews) and other web-based
>
>newsgroup services may be used in lieu of standard USENET.
>
>For additional information, and to signup for ISP800, please visit
>http://isp800.com/os2. In particular, see the price page and the FAQ
>page.
>For additional information send an email to os2isp@innoval.com.
>
>---------------------
>
>The OS/2 Community should sit up and take notice and support
>this new enterprise!
>
>Tim Martin
>The OS/2 Guy
>Warp City (http://warpcity.com)
>"Y2K Special Discount Memberships Close 12/15!)
>

-- 
E-mail jknott@ca.ibm.com
_________________________________________________________________________
The above opinions are my own and not those of ISM Corp., a subsidiary of
IBM Canada Ltd.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: wsonna@ibm.net                                    13-Dec-99 12:14:16
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 10:24:20
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: wsonna@ibm.net (William Sonna)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:36:15, jglatt@spamgone-borg.com (Jeff Glatt) 
wrote:

> >William Sonna
> >Innoval, in contrast, was exemplary in the manner in which they left 
> >the OS/2 maketplace.
> 
> What's so exemplary about leaving the OS/2 marketplace?

I said "in the manner in which they left".

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: SkidMARX@att.net                                  13-Dec-99 12:52:09
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 10:24:21
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: SkidMARX@att.net

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:43:50, "J. R. Fox" <jr_fox@earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> Kim Cheung wrote:
> 
> > Poorly written monolithic programs - or half-hearted ported Windows
programs
> > - unfortunately, does cause headache from time to time (like the DumbSuite
> > for OS/2, and Netscape).    Warp 4 added sometime to monitor the queue and
> > make it a little easier to clear the queue but it is not a "non-issue".
> >
> > In general, it's an overblown issue used by Windoze nuts to attack OS/2.
> 
> Unfortunately, Netscape is a pretty critical app. for most of us, and it is
the
> one thing (via SIQ, or however this works) *by far* most likely to lock my
> system up tight as a drum, requiring a hard Reset, followed by CHKDSK runs
> against multiple drives from a Maintenance boot -- the whole 9 yards.  This
has
> been the case with 4.61, and 2.02 before that.  It may not happen
frequently,
> but still often enough to amount to a major PITA.
> 
> <jfox>
> 
> 

JR,

I know this is not a GOOD solution but ...

I use Process Commander to bail me out of this problem (the need for a
hard-reset and chkdsk run) by using the Ctl-Alt-Esc sequence to reboot
the computer.

It has worked every time !!!

I'd rather have to wait for a reboot than having to sit thru a chkdsk 
run, and as well possible desktop corruption ...
Maybe you can find a copy on eBay or some such site ...

If not, there's always the Warez route :=)
Being as the product has effectively been discontinued.

The DOSCALL1.dll problem had to fixed by a individual programmer, but 
it is fixed !!!
Not StarDock or the actual author.

Pathetic if you ask me ...

Gregory L. Marx
skidmarx@att.net

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     13-Dec-99 06:52:17
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:26:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"Steven C. Britton" wrote:

> Ed Letourneau wrote:
> >
> > >How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in 1997?
> > >How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
> > >How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?
> >
> > Need more details here big guy.
> >
> > Item 1. The reports I see is about asking customers to boycott Safeway,
> > and 4 or 5 workers being arrested for making threats to strike breakers --
> > that's real dangerous stuff up you have up there.
>
> Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
> workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
> shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.
>
> I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.

Oh yeah.  You're going grow up to be the CEO of Safeway.



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            13-Dec-99 15:00:19
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:26:29
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
> "Steven C. Britton" wrote:

>> Ed Letourneau wrote:
>> >
>> > >How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in
1997?
>> > >How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
>> > >How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?
>> >
>> > Need more details here big guy.
>> >
>> > Item 1. The reports I see is about asking customers to boycott Safeway,
>> > and 4 or 5 workers being arrested for making threats to strike breakers
--
>> > that's real dangerous stuff up you have up there.
>>
>> Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
>> workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
>> shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.
>>
>> I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.

> Oh yeah.  You're going grow up to be the CEO of Safeway.

Curiously, Safeway stock is down about 50% in the past year.

Maybe Britton is managing. :)


-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: frank_mckenney@mindspring.com                     13-Dec-99 14:21:22
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: TRAPDUMP to a ZIP100 (SCSI)

From: frank_mckenney@mindspring.com (Frank McKenney)

Michael,

You left off a Followup-To:  newsgroup, so I've set it to
comp.os.os2.misc

In <zterrarrkvfarg.fmn4rd0.pminews@news.exis.net>, "Michael K Greene"
<mgreene@exis.net> writes:
>Ok, I understand the TRAPDUMP process but I can not get the dump to my ZIP100
>(SCSI) drive. The command say that it can not find the drive. Something
>wrong?

I assume you've already set up the ZIP cartridge as FAT and given it the
correct name.

Given that this is for a standalone system dump (e.g.  "dump as much as
we can without depending on anything that might have been tromped on and
without disturbing anything"), I'd expect it to be using BIOS Int13h
calls to write the data to disk(ette).

Is your ZIP drive BIOS-addressable?  Or is it only available once OS/2
drivers have been loaded (which the standalone dump code has to assume
_might_ have been mangled)?


Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
E-mail: frank_mckenney@mindspring.com

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From: mike@lionsgate.com                                13-Dec-99 13:39:08
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Win 98 install next to Warp

From: mike@lionsgate.com (Mike Stephen)

I have a boot manager system here, with a 1 gig OS/2Warp system and a
three gig partition that currently has BEOS 4.5 on it.  I want to nuke
the BEOS partition and install Win 98 on it (at least temporaraly, as
I have to offer client support for Win 98).  However when I select the
partition to be installable, I cannot finish the Win 98 instal because
the Win 98 seems to want to force me to nuke all my partitions and
make the entire 10 gig drive one drive c:.  Is this normal?  I
remember Win 95 not doing this.  Is this another one of Gates ploys? 
Do I have to repartition it to less that 2 gigs, so I can install DOS
and then Win 98?

What a piece of crap....


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: radu_trm@yahoo.com                                13-Dec-99 16:19:21
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Win 98 install next to Warp

From: radu <radu_trm@yahoo.com>

DOS, WinXX require a visible _primary_ partition to install, placed under
the 1024 cilinder (not sure, but it seems to me < 2GB) because the OS
loader needs to reside on a primary partition.
"Visible " means a format they can use:
    FAT for DOS/Win95
    FAT, FAT32 for Win95 OSR2, Win98
    FAT,NTFS for WinNT 4
    FAT,FAT32(?),NTFS Win2k

You can install DOS/WinXX on a logical drive, but you still need to have
that patrition visible.

Depending on your actual disk layout, you can do this with OS/2's FDISK,
or, if Partition moving/resizing are necessary, with Partition Magic.
I've heard that PMagic 3.x doesn't work with HDDs > 8.1 Gb, so, if true,
you need PMagic >= 4.

Mike Stephen wrote:

> [...] I want to nuke the BEOS partition and install Win 98  [...]

> What a piece of crap....

Yeah...

Good Luck!
Radu


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net                            13-Dec-99 14:33:16
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Psion Link for Warp

From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net (Karel Jansens)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:00:39, "Kelvin Tsang" <ktkelvin@yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Anyone know where can find the software to make
> Psion talk to OS/2 ?
> I did tried one, but forgot the name of it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kelvin
> --

http://www.oprit.rug.nl/hulsmann/PSI.html

Karel Jansens
jansens_at_attglobal_dot_net
=======================================================
"The method employed I would gladly explain,
While I have it so clear in my head,
If I had but the time and you had but the brain -
But much yet remains to be said."

the Hunting of the Snark (Lewis Carroll)
=======================================================

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From: domi@kenavo.NOSPAM.fi                             13-Dec-99 14:39:13
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: domi@kenavo.NOSPAM.fi (Dominique Pivard)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:52:19, SkidMARX@att.net wrote:
> 
> The DOSCALL1.dll problem had to fixed by a individual programmer, but 
> it is fixed !!!
> Not StarDock or the actual author.

Could you explain to those of us not versed in the intricacy of OS/2 
what you mean with the above? What DOSCALL1.DLL problem? Who fixed it?
What StarDock has to do with it? Who's the "actual author"?

Thanks, Dominique

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cytan@fnal.gov                                    13-Dec-99 14:56:21
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: cytan@fnal.gov (Cheng-Yang Tan)

In message <c1.2c.2TF0mV$1Yc@rhino_house.attglobal.net> -
nospam@savebandwidth.invalid       (John Thompson)Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:54:34
GMT writes:
:>
:>In <830js8$blt$1@info3.fnal.gov>, cytan@fnal.gov (Cheng-Yang Tan) writes:
:>
:>>You know, as another commandline jock, I had wished from day one that
:>>the cmd window was more like the xterm window. The EPM and TakeCommand/2
:>>doesn't work like the xterm window, most stdio programmes just don't
:>>work in the same window (e.g. ls) where the command is typed which to me is
:>>unacceptable. 
:>>
:>>If someone were to write a set of VIO*.DLL's to take over the default
:>>VIO*.DLLs so that this works, I'd pay real money for it.
:>
:>You can always run Xfree86-OS/2 and use an xterm shell window
:>there...
:>
:>-John (John.Thompson@attglobal.net)
:>

I'm actually waiting for EverBlue to make xterm work on the WPS.
Everblue does look promising though, as xclock, xload all seem to
work on the WPS desktop.

Cheng-Yang Tan




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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Thomas.Kellerer@tps-labs.com                      13-Dec-99 16:20:12
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: Thomas Kellerer <Thomas.Kellerer@tps-labs.com>

Here is the poor mans solution:

Do not maximize the command window. 
Call mode <columns>,<rows> (e.g. mode 80,200)

If the window is not maximized you will get a scrollbar for the command
window. 
If the command window is maximized, I think OS/2 tries to display the
complete number of rows if the window will fit on the screen.

If you make <rows> big enough you have your buffer. There might be
programs out there which do not behave correctly in this situation (I
don't know if the Rexx stuff for lines and columns returns the visible
ones or the actual ones)

But it's better than nothing

Regards
Thomas



reedjd@bitsmart.com wrote:
> 
> Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
> command line interface?  As I've spending more time working in the
> command line mode I've been frustruted by no buffer to scroll back and
> look at things.
> 
> I have to assue my beloved OS/2 has some way to do this.  Can anyone
> help me?
> 
> -jordan
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: skrise@attglobal.net                              13-Dec-99 10:32:06
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Back on Topic, Please! Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: skrise@attglobal.net

<newsgroup list snipped>

Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:01:26, Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>> InnoVal is to be applauded for their continued devotion to
>> OS/2, the OS/2 user and the OS/2 community at large.
>> You want to kill off OS/2?  Take a look at what you are
>> personally doing to help do that today.
> Here we go again. Go away Tim.
> --
> Bob Eager

Now before the discussion of this ISP deal gets lost in
anti-Tim rhetoric lets focus back on the original message.
(Well, now that I've read up on the thread I see it's too late.)

I'm interested by this deal since it is such a good offer,
($12/month if you pre-register) but my "it's too good to 
be true" alarms are going off.

I want to know, what's the catch?  Anyone familiar with
this AFST company aside from the blurbs on their website
(http://www.safenet123.com/os2)?  I find it mildly troublesome
that they describe themselves as being in the "Internet Filter"
software business (i.e., censorship).

I hope I'm wrong.  So does anyone have any further information?

Thanks,
Steven
-- 
Abstainer: a weak person who yields
           to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure.
           ... Ambrose Bierce

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From: bdavis@fn.net                                     13-Dec-99 15:39:16
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: StarOffice upgrade in small bits

From: bdavis@fn.net (Brian Davis)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:34:40, djm16@le.ac.uk (Dr D.J. Maconochie) 
wrote:

> 
> I have tried to download the latest upgrade to StarOffice around 10 times
now.
> The furthest I have got is around 30 Mb before losing the connection and
wasting
> the file.
> 
> Is the upgrade packaged somewhere in <10 Mb chunks?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> David Maconochie

I assume your looking for version 5.1a, you can ftp it from
24.2.168.186/pub/StarOffice. I had the same problem your
having until I found this ftp server.

You can find all the patches from
ftp.stardivision.de/pub/support/so51a


Brian Davis (bdavis@fn.net)

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From: m.o.davis@gte.net                                 13-Dec-99 16:23:19
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: m.o.davis@gte.net (Mark Davis)

In message <38546B76.6E6291B8@earthlink.net> - "J. R. Fox"
<jr_fox@earthlink.net> writes:
:>
:>Kim Cheung wrote:
:>
:>> Poorly written monolithic programs - or half-hearted ported Windows
programs
:>> - unfortunately, does cause headache from time to time (like the DumbSuite
:>> for OS/2, and Netscape).    Warp 4 added sometime to monitor the queue and
:>> make it a little easier to clear the queue but it is not a "non-issue".
:>>
:>> In general, it's an overblown issue used by Windoze nuts to attack OS/2.
:>
:>Unfortunately, Netscape is a pretty critical app. for most of us, and it is
the
:>one thing (via SIQ, or however this works) *by far* most likely to lock my
:>system up tight as a drum, requiring a hard Reset, followed by CHKDSK runs
:>against multiple drives from a Maintenance boot -- the whole 9 yards.  This
has
:>been the case with 4.61, and 2.02 before that.  It may not happen
frequently,
:>but still often enough to amount to a major PITA.
:>
:><jfox>
:>
:>
:>

I've had Netscape lock up the WPS, but I've always been able to reboot with
C-A-D, which keeps chkdsk from running on bootup.

Mark Davis
San Angelo, TX

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From: bv@bigblue.no                                     13-Dec-99 16:28:21
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: ESPN problem and Netscape

From: bv@bigblue.no (Bj›rn Vermo)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:55:24, "Karl M. Beem" <karlbeem@mindspring.com>
wrote:

> Several days ago ESPN changed its main page design.  I have Netscape 4.61
and
> it has problems formatting the page.  The Netscape of Win95 has no problems. 

> Has anyone else noticed this?

If you included the URL, it might be more likely that somebody else 
would take a look at the page.

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From: alex@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca                        13-Dec-99 16:35:03
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: alex@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca (Alex Taylor)

On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:56:44 GMT, Buddy Donnelly <donnelly@tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:
> > > Anybody still have a copy of that QNX (wasn't it?) demo browser from 
> > > 2-3 years ago that could actually run from a booted floppy? The 
> > > browser and the OS both fit on the floppy?
> > 
> > My parents had one kicking around their house at one time, having a friend
> > who works at QNX.  Its functionality was a bit crippled, but it was still
> > really neat to see...
> 
> Interestingly, QNX is still developing it, and is up to v.4.5. Try 
> this URL:
> 	http://www.qnx.com/iat/

Maybe I'll ask said friend to bring me a copy some time.  It was fun to
run as a demo at CompSci club exhibits (next to the machines running
arcade emulators).

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Alex Taylor                  BA - CIS - University of Guelph
 alex@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca   http://eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca/~alex
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bv@bigblue.no                                     13-Dec-99 17:06:17
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: bv@bigblue.no (Bj›rn Vermo)

On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:09:39, lifedata@xxvol.com wrote:

> alex@eddie.cis.uoguelph.ca (Alex Taylor) said:
> 
> >I do look forward to a native version.  I've been trying it out on my NT
> >system at work, and it kicks.  :)
> 
> I'm curious how big it is.  I don't use Netscape as my email program, no do
> I use the brain impaired page composer.  So if Opera is a lot smaller I
> would want to look at it.
> 
Currently, the Opera 4.0 beta is 1584157 bytes. Just too big for a 
diskette, but including mail client. It is difficult to say what it 
ends up as installed with Odin support, but nothing near Communicator 
in any case.

By the way, I really wish project Odin would give a little more 
priority to Windows self-extracting compressed files. It would be very
convenient to be able to unpack them easily under OS/2 - not all are 
in a format recognized by Unzip.


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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           13-Dec-99 10:29:09
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <385486f9_4@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/12/99 at 10:40 PM,
   "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:


> Of course, the fact that it is ILLEGAL to price a good below cost just
> simply proves how tyrranical and oppressive our governments really are:
> if someone wants to sell a widget below the cost of manufacture, it's
> their own stupidity.

It is illgal to sell a product below cost if the purpose of doing so is to
drive a competitor our of business. Otherwise it is perfectly legal.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rjf@yyycomasia.com                                13-Dec-99 16:27:13
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: rjf@yyycomasia.com (rj friedman)

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:13:18, larso@commodore. (Lars P 
Ormberg) wrote:

îIn the case of anti-trust, I've been recognizing the invalidity OF THE LAW
îrepeatedly.

îMonopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.

îI will not lie and say that Microsoft is a monopoly.
îI will not lie and say that Microsoft can use monopoly power.


Hee, hee, hee. Keep it up "Lars" old boy - you have no idea 
the extent of pleasure it gives me to watch as you eat your 
Microsoft loving heart out.


________________________________________________________

[RJ]                 OS/2 - Live it, or live with it. 
rj friedman          Team ABW              
Taipei, Taiwan       rjf@yyycomasia.com 

To send email - remove the `yyy'
________________________________________________________

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kitchin@dca.net                                   13-Dec-99 11:20:10
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: OS/2 1.1

From: Bruce Kitchin <kitchin@dca.net>

If you get the disks from someone (I don't have mine anymore), there is
one possible problem.  OS/2 prior to version 1.3 was very hardward sensitive.
The IBM versions ran only on IBM computers or very close compatibles.
Mine were from HP since I had an HP computer.  So if you get them and
they give you trouble, you may want to try various computers to see if
there is one that is more compatible.



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            13-Dec-99 09:54:02
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Stephen Untruth wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah.  You're going grow up to be the CEO of Safeway.
>
> Curiously, Safeway stock is down about 50% in the past year.
>
> Maybe Britton is managing. :)

Since the stock is down, I obviously do not have anything to do with
Safeway.  If I was in charge, the stock would have split four times and the
union would have been decertified.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            13-Dec-99 09:56:17
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:

> > Of course, the fact that it is ILLEGAL to price a good below cost just
> > simply proves how tyrranical and oppressive our governments really are:
> > if someone wants to sell a widget below the cost of manufacture, it's
> > their own stupidity.
>
> It is illgal to sell a product below cost if the purpose of doing so is to
> drive a competitor our of business. Otherwise it is perfectly legal.

Motivation is irrelevant.  It is impossible to prove.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              13-Dec-99 06:26:02
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article
<o33IbyOQk5WV-pn2-dGmXdSNPI6fU@miharris.connectcorp.net.209.43.130.112>,
miharris@connectcorp.net wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:20:03, aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz) 
>wrote:
>
> 
>Quotedl>I'm pretty sure I got the newsreader for free too.
>Quotedl
>QuotedlOnly if you got your registration key in a warez newsgroup, I'm
afraid.  The
>Quotedlrest of us paid for it, and received no support assistance when it
wouldn't
>Quotedlwork.  Innoval never released a free registration code for that
product.
>
>You're WAY out of line here,... I got a FREE copy of the newsreader 
>(not warez).  It was free to those of us who purchased the GREEN 
>version of PRM v1.0.

You idiot, you paid for BOTH products.  "Free" in that context has a very
different meaning.

> .... then again,... that may have been long 
>before you came on board as an os/2'er!

Not likely.  It was a while before I experimented with PRM, but it was a
version before 2.00.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cvopicka@erols.com                                13-Dec-99 10:17:13
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 14:27:00
Subj: Re: WinOS2 .dll file in Warp 4.0

From: Ron Vopicka <cvopicka@erols.com>

James,

I apologize for having missed your response to my question... another
set of dead neurons, probably.

James Moe wrote:
> 
> Ron Vopicka wrote:
> >
> > I've run into an interesting (not really) Win 3.1 bug in a program I
> > receive that is updated on a quarterly schedule.  The latest update has
> > some problems.  I have determined that the same program which will run
> > under Win98 does NOT have the problem.  Obviously, something changed.
> >
>     What kind of problems?

I get a rather non-descript message about can't open a file or the file
is corrupted.  This does not happen under vanilla 3.1 or W98.  I am at
FP5, but yesterday I ran the program under 4.0 with no fixpacks and the
result was the same.  Looking about the apar data base I only found one
(visible) winos2 file reference which had to do with the file manager's
display of the year 2000 as -100... didn't look remotely likely.  Sure
would be nice to have a dir of  os2\mdos\winos2\system from a FP12
system to compare with since the fix pack write-ups leave something to
be desired in completeness (understandably).

As you may detect, I am not anxious to install another fix pack at this
time of year (but it may be unavoidable).

I am currently wondering if this wonderful program has had a fix to MS
Access 2.0.  It would seem that it is built into the program as I do not
have Access installed here.

I have also noticed a number of (20 over about a 25 day update that I
did yesterday) of couldn't open file messages.  Don't know if this is
the result of doing 25 days of updates at one shot (maybe exposing a
file closing bug in the program), or if it would have happened doing
"One day at a time".  I personally suspect the file closing problem.

When all else failed, I noticed I had not defined enough files (this was
weeks ago now), and increasing the number of files from 20 to 120 to
finally 255 had no change whatsoever in the result.

Now I am wondering about Theseus.  Never used it or really looked at it,
but does anyone know if I can use it to track file activity inside
WinOS2... or is it intended for native OS2 only.
> 
> > In casting about for some way to keep from being forced into W98, I have
> > started to wonder if my dlls on winos2\system are the most current and
> > hopefully most bug-free
> >
>     It depends. What is the last fixpak you installed. The current one
> is fp12.

Have FP5 tried it with none installed.

> 
> > I have looked thru the fix pack fixes and not seen anything significant
> > that directly indicates any dll changes (but they could be hidden).  So
> > I have started wondering about the safety/advisability of updating using
> > any of the genuine MS Win 3.1 .dlls (assmuming there are any updates).
> > Now I know that SOME windows support was changed to fit 3.1 into OS/2,
> > but for years now I have never wondered which programs might be
> > updatable and which MUST NOT BE.
> >
>     None of the system DLLs can be replaced with the original MS
> versions. winos2 has been heavily modified to run properly and in os/2.
> Much of the shoddy and inconsistent coding has been replaced over the
> years and updatesas well as integration with os/2.

Suspected as much.  Does anyone know if the OS2 improved versions do a
better job of really tracking the number of open files?

> 
> > Before I go thru the unbelievable hassle of trying to find out it there
> > are any MS .dlls that might even be candidates for updating, I wonder if
> > anyone else has made an attempt in this direction?
> >
>     This is not to say you cannot try replacing winos2 DLLs with earlier
> versions. I have done this myself to fix a problem a fixpak caused. Four
> fixpaks later the problem was corrected.
>     Does your program have DLLs? Maybe try using an earlier rev on
> those.
> 

Latest, non-working version introduced 2 updated dlls, dunpack and
gx5... something.  Regressed both of those to the older version, no
small trick with dunpack, with exactly the same result.

As to what they have internally in "the program" &deity. only knows.  As
mentioned above, I am getting curious about Access 2.0 since it must be
linked into the module.

> --
> 
> sma at rtd dot com
> Remove ".spam-not" for email

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From: bv@bigblue.no                                     13-Dec-99 17:41:16
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: bv@bigblue.no (Bj›rn Vermo)

On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 05:29:35, Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> 
wrote:

> On <384ea7fe$1$yrgbherq$mr2ice@news.sover.net>, on 12/08/99 at 01:48 PM,
>    letoured@nospam.net said:
> 
> > Does the university there accept just anyone?
> 
> Evidently.

There is always the possibility that somebody behaves rationally and 
intelligently when they are admitted, and only turn eccentric 
afterwards.

It would be very nice for a mugger to identify those people - they 
would obviously agree to the perfect defence: "I did not force him to 
hand over his wallet. He had the free choice to get shot instead of 
handing it over, so he gave it to me of his own free will".
 

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From: bv@bigblue.no                                     13-Dec-99 18:07:28
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:10
Subj: Re: Why can't Germer compute?

From: bv@bigblue.no (Bj›rn Vermo)

On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:44:07, letoured@nospam.net wrote:

> jglatt@spamgone-borg.com (Jeff Glatt) said:
> 
> Read my paragraph again and pay attention. -- I said a tier-one ANY BRAND
> machine without windoze and you rant about IBM.
> 
It might seem to most people that your definition of "tier one" is 
more than a little odd if it does not include IBM. Most people would 
expect "tier one" to mean the best group of a certain product 
cathegory, and would reserve that distinction for the top-end products
of IBM, Compaq, HP, Fujitsu, Siemens, Dell and a very few smaller, 
specialized companies. This to distinguish them from "tier three" 
computers from cheap mail-order or chain stores, some made by the same
manufacturers as the tier one models (e.g. Compaq home computers), 
others by the likes of Packard Bell and other consumer-oriented 
brands, or second-tier equipment made by good integraters using good 
components and the top end of generic motherboards from the better 
board manufacturers or the lower end of the professional ranges from 
the top tier.

It is not difficult to get a first tier computer without an operating 
system, it is more like the default. We talk of from 10k USD and far, 
far up. In that price range, the customer is VERY right. It is also 
possible to a second tier system without Windows. The problem is that 
the big volume, consumer and small business oriented, third tier 
systems are generally unavailable with anything resembling a free 
choice, be it of OS, office suite or even in many places internet 
provider.

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From: 1979j@usa.net                                     13-Dec-99 17:57:00
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:10
Subj: Re: OS/2 1.1

From: Nino <1979j@usa.net>


Nino ha scritto:

> Hello All,
>
> my name's Nino and I am a student at the 'La Sapienza' university in
> Rome.
> I am preparing a research on the history of PC for my next exam. OS/2
> have
> a huge importance for the IBM PC compatible platform, I'd like to quote
> it
> largely, but unfortunately I miss what maybe is the most important
> version: OS/2 1.1, the first operating system for PC with a GUI, the
> first OS/2 with Presentation Manager.
>
> I would like to write an original article on it and take some
> screenshots of OS/2 1.1 with my camera.
>
> If someone please can supply me that version (which is, I suppose, about
> 4 or 5 5.25 disks) I will be very grateful; I really want my teachers
> give OS/2 the importance and the respect that it deserves. Thanks in
> advance
>
> I am sorry for any off-topic generated but I really need your help.
>
> Best regards,
> Nino Solazzo
>
> P.S. Please, answer me only if you have the 1.1 version. I am not a
> collector so I am not interested in any other 1.x versions. Thanks
> again.

If someone is so generous to give me only the first, the installation
disk of OS/2 1.1 and the label names to the remaining disks It would be
really appreciated. Please help me, I haven't found a working OS/2 1.1 yet.
I need only the disk image of the install disk and the label names. If you
have it, please contact me at 1979j@usa.net

Thanks

Nino

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From: jglatt@spamgone-borg.com                          13-Dec-99 18:28:20
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jglatt@spamgone-borg.com (Jeff Glatt)

>Boob Germer
>students can be expelled for conduct detrimental to the good name of
>the University.

Which is why Boob flunked out of "The Little Candy Cane Nursery
School" for calling other children "assholes" because they bought
radio-controlled Furbie dolls that don't run on OS/2

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From: pjfloyd@my-deja.com                               13-Dec-99 17:10:27
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:10
Subj: Re: CDRECORD, MULTISESSION and editing OS2CDROM.DMD...

From: pjfloyd@my-deja.com

In article <TQzU48D5wSHJ090yn@erols.com>,
  mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) wrote:
> Ok you guys...

> I've been working on tackling the creation of multisession cdroms
> using warp connect, cdrecord 18a32, adaptec aha1522b and a yamaha
> 4416s...

I have:
Warp 4, Tekram SCSI card and a Yamaha 6416S.
And also a Tosh SD-M1201.

> The short story is, I have it working, but it's not 100% correct.

> With a "box stock" Warp connect system and fixpak #40, multisession
> is not possible using the above listed tools. However, it was
> discussed a while back that OS2CDROM.DMD could be edited with the
> name "YAMAHA" overlaying one of the other listed cdrom manufacturers
> and multisession would magically appear...

I guess this is more or less the case.

> Well, it does to some degree, but it's not perfect.

> First off, not having the source code to OS2CDROM.DMD makes it a
> bit difficult to know what is going on in those tables. But I
> would hazard a guess that they are a "feature support table"
> using oem names and specific model numbers to switch in code so
> that the desired features are available to the OS.

> No proof of this, but it's a strong suspicion.

You can download the source (or at least, I did) and all
the tools required to compile it. I did this for the above
two models.

I haven't yet been able to test this thoroughly. I've only one
multisession CD at the moment, though I expect I'll do
some more testing with a multisession CD-RW disk.


> Overwriting "TEXEL" with "YAMAHA" allows me to read multisession
> cd's with some minor difficulties. Namely there are garbaged
> directories listed at the root level, along with the "real"
> directories. The garbaged ones appear to be of
> totally bogus origins and writing my own multisession cd's results
> in the same behaviour. My written directories appear perfect,
> amongst garbage...

> It's kinda' a bummer as I was hoping for the usual flawless
> operations... but a hack is a hack... I'll leave it for someone
> else to polish up...

I may.

> Anyway, I use the following routine to "build" a multisession cd...

[snip - mkisofs]

> I believe you can keep doing this, up until your cd is full or you
> get tired...

I don't know so much about mkisofs.

> From the best that I can tell, I can write multisession cdroms
> without hacking the OS2CDROM.DMD file. Reading them is the problem...

> There was also a gentleman that mentioned that he had taken an
> old copy of cdrom drivers from IBM's website and was able to compile
> a driver that correctly handles multisession cd's. If you read
> this, contact me. I'd like totrade a few emails with you. :')

That could be me. I'll be in touch.

I've also crossposted to comp.os.os2.setup.storage, rather more
appropriate I think.

A bientot
Paul
--
Paul Floyd
Is atrophy a shiny cup?


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            13-Dec-99 12:19:10
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:
>
> >Motivation is irrelevant.  It is impossible to prove.
>
> And I guess MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because there is no
> evidence against them!

MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because they've realized that
there's no way they can win the case due to the tyrannical anti-business
laws in force.

In short, they're cutting their losses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: gbritton@!britton.dhs.org                         13-Dec-99 19:42:17
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Gerry Britton" <gbritton@!britton.dhs.org>

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:19:21 -0700, Steven C. Britton wrote:

>> And I guess MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because there is no
>> evidence against them!
>
>MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because they've realized that
>there's no way they can win the case due to the tyrannical anti-business
>laws in force.
>
>In short, they're cutting their losses.

Complete fantasy and utter nonsense. MS should & will be broken into
profitable little pieces, and Gates will be forever remembered as the last
major thief of the 20th century .



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From: larso@commodore.                                  13-Dec-99 19:53:09
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw rj friedman write:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:13:18, larso@commodore. (Lars P 
> Ormberg) wrote:

> îMonopoly power requires a monopoly.  Microsoft isn't a monopoly.
> 
> îI will not lie and say that Microsoft is a monopoly.
> îI will not lie and say that Microsoft can use monopoly power.
> 
> Hee, hee, hee. Keep it up "Lars" old boy

I'm sorry to hear you have the dreaded misuse of quotations disease.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: none@nospam.org                                   13-Dec-99 20:53:15
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: J. Chapman <none@nospam.org>

In article <3854DE02.24ADDF0A@ibm.net>, josco@ibm.net says...
 > 
 > 
 > "Steven C. Britton" wrote:
 > 
 > > Ed Letourneau wrote:
 > > >
 > > > >How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in
1997?
 > > > >How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
 > > > >How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?
 > > >
 > > > Need more details here big guy.
 > > >
 > > > Item 1. The reports I see is about asking customers to boycott Safeway,
 > > > and 4 or 5 workers being arrested for making threats to strike breakers 
--
 > > > that's real dangerous stuff up you have up there.
 > >
 > > Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
 > > workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
 > > shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.
 > >
 > > I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.
 > 
 > Oh yeah.  You're going grow up to be the CEO of Safeway.
 
Well, it is interesting how when it comes to abortions the government
thinks it is totally unacceptable for anyone disagreeing with it to be
anywhere near the places they are done... yet when it comes to labor
unions they turn a blind eye to physical intimidation of people who
merely want to go somewhere they are fully entitled to go.


-- 
 
If I don't respond to a post it may mean that I haven't seen it,
that I don't think it merits a response or that the poster is in
my killfile. In any case silence should not be taken as assent.

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From: Thomas.Kneisel@t-online.de                        13-Dec-99 21:59:02
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: Xcopy with re-start options

From: Thomas Kneisel <Thomas.Kneisel@t-online.de>


John Poltorak schrieb:

> Has anyone ever come across a utility which is equivalent to XCOPY but
> with option to do a re-start from a point of failure?
>

In a first step you can use the "archive"-attribute to mark all files
which were actually copied by xcopy (option /M). After a failure, "xcopy
/A" should copy only those files which were not copied in the first step.

Thomas Kneisel

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From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net                     13-Dec-99 19:47:02
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: StarOffice upgrade in small bits

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug Bissett)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 23:34:40, djm16@le.ac.uk (Dr D.J. Maconochie) 
wrote:

> 
> I have tried to download the latest upgrade to StarOffice around 10 times
now.
> The furthest I have got is around 30 Mb before losing the connection and
wasting
> the file.
> 
> Is the upgrade packaged somewhere in <10 Mb chunks?
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> David Maconochie

I haven't found any place to get it in smaller chunks (would be nice).

Some "interesting" observations:
1) The older StarOffice (5.1, from Star Division), will not even get 
off the ground with trying to download the newer SO 5.1a from SUN (at 
least it wouldn't work when I tried it).
2) Before I installed the latest TCP/IP update, I got to about 8 meg 
in the download (using Netscape 4.61), and that was the end (a couple 
of tries). AFTER I installed the latest TCP/IP fix, I got to 56mb, 
before I blew it up (and I was doing a lot of fooling around by that 
point, just to see if I could blow it out of the water). I don't know 
if the download would have finished if I had not been "testing" it, I 
haven't got around to trying again. There does seem to be a 
significant improvement with the update. Go to:

http://duanec.indelible-blue.com/fixes/LatestWarp4.html

and follow the link for UN_980 to get the latest TCP/IP updates (there
are a LOT of other good links on that page). Be sure to read the docs.

Hope this helps...
******************************
From the PC of Doug Bissett
doug.bissett at attglobal.net
The " at " must be changed to "@"
******************************

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From: locke@www.esi.us.es                               13-Dec-99 19:33:10
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Large hard disks installation

From: locke@www.esi.us.es (Jose Manuel Pavon Alvarez)

Hi everybody,
    I've been trying to install OS/2 4.0 on a 6GB hard disk and I
    found out that it doesn't read properly the partition table.
    I know there's some kind of patch for the installation floppies
    so that it detects the hard disk correctly.
    Does anybody know where can I get them from?
    
    TIA,
  
Ivan.
--
e-mail: lockeNOSPAM@bart.us.es
http://www.esi.us.es/~locke

"To absent friends, lost loves, old gods, and the season of mists;
and may each and every one of us always give the devil his due."
Hob Gadlin in Sandman. Neil Gaiman.

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From: osmo.vuorio@sonera.fi                             13-Dec-99 20:13:05
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 17:04:11
Subj: Re: Large hard disks installation

From: osmo.vuorio@sonera.fi (osmo vuorio)

In article <slrn85ai8c.s71.locke@bart.us.es>, locke@www.esi.us.es (Jose Manuel 
Pavon Alvarez) says:
>
>Hi everybody,
>    I've been trying to install OS/2 4.0 on a 6GB hard disk and I
>    found out that it doesn't read properly the partition table.
>    I know there's some kind of patch for the installation floppies

There is/has been since august 1997. You may browse

http://service.software.ibm.com/os2ddpak/html/miscellb/os_2warp/

and read also the documentation.

Osmo





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From: magnus@attnet.net                                 13-Dec-99 18:02:19
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 19:44:00
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Michael Magnus <magnus@attnet.net>


Gerry Britton wrote:

> >MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because they've realized that
> >there's no way they can win the case due to the tyrannical anti-business
> >laws in force.
> >
> >In short, they're cutting their losses.
> 
> Complete fantasy and utter nonsense. MS should & will be broken into
> profitable little pieces, and Gates will be forever remembered as the last
> major thief of the 20th century .

If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit. He would
probably triple his wealth because he would own a good deal of the
smaller M$ pieces. This is precisely what happened to Rockafeller when
Standard Oil was broken up 100 years ago.

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From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    13-Dec-99 22:19:05
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 19:44:00
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

In article <8320hk$h7g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
 <hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu> wrote:
>In article <831n2l$r5c@peabody.colorado.edu>,
>  bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen) wrote:
>
>> So was it an airbag or a seatbelt that kept you free to spew
>> hypocrisy?
>
>Now that was uncalled for. Good God man, have you no sense of decency?

Tim told blatant lies about me, accused me of illegal activities that
are punishable by jail time, and didn't have a shred of proof.  I
actually had to have a meeting with my boss and the abuse person over his
lies, of course I quickly showed them what an ass he was and they laughed 
it off but he still accused me of illegal activity. I have no sympathy
for him, I consider his accident karma coming back at him.

>
>--
>-Steven Hunter                *OS/2 Warp 4 * |But on the other hand...|
>hunters@sapphire.indstate.edu *AMD K6-2 400* |There's 5 more fingers. |
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.


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From: danielh@crosslink.net                             13-Dec-99 17:49:22
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 19:44:00
Subj: Re: Xcopy with re-start options

From: danielh@crosslink.net

>John Poltorak schrieb:

>> Has anyone ever come across a utility which is equivalent to XCOPY but
>> with option to do a re-start from a point of failure?

You can try the CopyDir utility that's part of the DIRTOOLS package
(http://www.srehttp.org/apps/dirtools/ )

CopyDir will copy a directory tree, with several options. One of these options 
is
to "skip" bad files -- thus, one bad file (say, due to a bad sector on a
drive) does
not stop the process. So you can think of it as "automatically" restarting
(that is, errors
don't kill it).


BTW: with some minor provisos, it's free.

 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Hellerstein
danielh@crosslink.net
http://www.srehttp.org
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: mgreene@exis.net                                  13-Dec-99 15:21:11
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 19:44:00
Subj: Re: TRAPDUMP to a ZIP100 (SCSI)

From: "Michael K Greene" <mgreene@exis.net>

On 13 Dec 1999 14:21:44 GMT, Frank McKenney wrote:

>
>Michael,
>
>You left off a Followup-To:  newsgroup, so I've set it to
>comp.os.os2.misc
>
>In <zterrarrkvfarg.fmn4rd0.pminews@news.exis.net>, "Michael K Greene"
<mgreene@exis.net> writes:
>>Ok, I understand the TRAPDUMP process but I can not get the dump to my
ZIP100
>>(SCSI) drive. The command say that it can not find the drive. Something
>>wrong?
>
>I assume you've already set up the ZIP cartridge as FAT and given it the
>correct name.
>
>Given that this is for a standalone system dump (e.g.  "dump as much as
>we can without depending on anything that might have been tromped on and
>without disturbing anything"), I'd expect it to be using BIOS Int13h
>calls to write the data to disk(ette).
>
>Is your ZIP drive BIOS-addressable?  Or is it only available once OS/2
>drivers have been loaded (which the standalone dump code has to assume
>_might_ have been mangled)?

Frank,

The ZIP100 is running off an Adaptec 1505 and depends on the SCSI drivers.

>Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
>Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
>E-mail: frank_mckenney@mindspring.com
>

Michael K Greene <mgreene@exis.net>     |      OS/2 Warp / Linux / Win95-311



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dboultr@spamfree.erols.com                        13-Dec-99 23:05:05
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 21:12:03
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: dboultr@spamfree.erols.com

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:26:05, aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz) 
wrote:

> You idiot, you paid for BOTH products.  "Free" in that context has a very
> different meaning.

Gosh, Alan, I'm certainly impressed with your economic analysis.

Now, if we all chipped in and bought you a copy of Win98, would you 
just go away? 

Doug Boulter

To reply by e-mail, remove the obvious spam traps from the address

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          13-Dec-99 23:34:18
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 21:12:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:53:30, J. Chapman <none@nospam.org> wrote:

>  
> Well, it is interesting how when it comes to abortions the government
> thinks it is totally unacceptable for anyone disagreeing with it to be
> anywhere near the places they are done... 

Au contraire, nearly (?) everywhere the local government is slow to 
restrict the Right To Assemble and has only done so in specific cases 
where the "disagreers" have transgressed on the rights of others to 
travel in/out of such places of business. That the disagreers have 
fomented the mad ignorant hatred that has led to gunning down medical 
practitioners, or subjecting them and their families to 
middle-east-style terrorism, is probably the factor that forced the 
courts to act.


> yet when it comes to labor
> unions they turn a blind eye to physical intimidation of people who
> merely want to go somewhere they are fully entitled to go.

Au contraire, there has been far more (US) government intervention in 
the rights of labourers to make use of totally peaceful, traditional 
and widely-accepted collective bargaining techniques. 

Among other citations, anybody remember PATCO, the legitimate labour 
union that was virtually outlawed by the fiat of an American 
President, totally disregarding Federal Law? (That the same US 
President blithely (and probably happily) violated the War Powers 
provisions of US constitutional law, in multiple cases, to attack the 
soil and citizens of foreign countries, only shows how far the 
corporate government is willing to go to restrict those they view as 
natural competitors.)



>  
> If I don't respond to a post it may mean that I haven't seen it,
> that I don't think it merits a response or that the poster is in
> my killfile. In any case silence should not be taken as assent.

And if I *do* respond to a post it doesn't mean that I think it should
be taken as a serious citation of the true facts of US history.


Unless all of this is speaking about Canadian law and affairs, in 
which case I'll plead near ignorance and back out the door, 
apologetically bowing and scraping.

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            13-Dec-99 16:44:27
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 21:12:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Michael Magnus wrote:
>
> Gerry Britton wrote:
>
> > >MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because they've realized
that
> > >there's no way they can win the case due to the tyrannical
anti-business
> > >laws in force.
> > >
> > >In short, they're cutting their losses.
> >
> > Complete fantasy and utter nonsense. MS should & will be broken into
> > profitable little pieces, and Gates will be forever remembered as the
last
> > major thief of the 20th century .
>
> If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit. He would
> probably triple his wealth because he would own a good deal of the
> smaller M$ pieces. This is precisely what happened to Rockafeller when
> Standard Oil was broken up 100 years ago.

It's a sad state of affairs in the world when someone is called a theif and
a bandit for being good at marketing a product.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cbass2112@my-deja.com                             13-Dec-99 23:23:11
  To: All                                               13-Dec-99 21:12:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: cbass2112@my-deja.com

In article <8311g5$a7f$2@burn.ab.videon.ca>,
  larso@ualberta.ca wrote:

-- snip --

> When the legal definition of a monopoly fails to correlate with
> reality, the law is at fault.

By what authority do you determine what is and isn't reality?

-- snip --

> No law should define Microsoft as a monopoly (since it isn't).

By what authority do you state what is and isn't a monopoly?

-- snip --

> Microsoft has competitors.

90+ % of the OS and Office Suite markets, and you say they have
"competitors?"  The only real "competitor" is an OS that's given away
for free!

> Any other definition (ie. U.S. law) is rotten to the core.

By what authority do you state what is and isn't "rotten to the core?"

-- snip --

> The problem with the WHOLE LAW is that it defies reality and the
> rights of a business.

By what authority do you determine what "rights" a business has?

-- snip --


Curtis



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dwinters@redrose.net                              13-Dec-99 19:44:18
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:05
Subj: Pain in the ass

From: Dale Winters <dwinters@redrose.net>

Sorry for the language but I am up against it after trying to get
realplayer5.0 working under warp4.
Hasn't anybody written an os/2 specific program that will open ra,rm,ram
type files and play them.
    It would seem by now its time for  somebody,who can program, to be
tired of jumping thru hoops and come up with an os/2 program to handle
this.
PPLLLLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE


--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               13-Dec-99 20:39:21
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:05
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>Since the stock is down, I obviously do not have anything to do with
>Safeway.  If I was in charge, the stock would have split four times and
>the union would have been decertified.

Your delusions are those of a person who can't ever get to the top --
because you have to treat people intelligently to get work from them, and
you're not capable of that.



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               13-Dec-99 20:47:29
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:05
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>> >How about the UFCW harassing customers during the Safeway strike in 1997?
>> >How about the violence on the Calgary Herald picket line?
>> >How about the violence on CUPW picket lines?
>>
>> Need more details here big guy.
>>
>> Item 1. The reports I see is about asking customers to boycott Safeway,
>> and 4 or 5 workers being arrested for making threats to strike breakers --
>> that's real dangerous stuff up you have up there.

>Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
>workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
>shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.

>I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.

This is more bull from you. The news reports of this are not out there on
the net. 

>> Item 2.  Calgary Herald. According to what I see, the readership has
>> falled 45% because of public support for the union.

>Not this reader...
>In fact, I'm thinking of putting my subscription back to daily.

You didn't support the union, but you did stop reading -- yet you claim to
know what isn't out there in the news reports.... Looks like more BS from
here.

>> Didn't find the violence stuff in the news.
>Funny.  Workers have been arrested.

Give us the URLs.   I meant your a hotshit at an ISP. So go to it. Give us
the paths or post the stories to prove you're not full of BS. 


>> Item 3.  All I see on the violence is, well I'll quote a witness; "I guess
>> his fingers [the Bank Manager] got hurt on someone's windpipe."

>There's been many CUPW walkouts (most near Christmas -- go figure).

I guess the managers are morons to write contracts with dates that can
lead to problems at their highest sales period.  -- You would fit right
in.


>> Got any more examples of the big bad unions? Anything beyond Canada? Is
>> this your best "union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics" stuff?

>Check into the last Ontario election and what the union goons did to the
>Mike Harris campaign (he won, by the way).

Changing the subject?  You said the unions caused the violence. The news
talks of the managers getting violent -- so you change the subject because
you got caught again with your head up you know where.



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               13-Dec-99 21:02:18
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:05
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Jason Bowen wrote:

> >Now that was uncalled for. Good God man, have you no sense of decency?
>
> Tim told blatant lies about me, accused me of illegal activities that
> are punishable by jail time, and didn't have a shred of proof.  I
> actually had to have a meeting with my boss and the abuse person over his
> lies, of course I quickly showed them what an ass he was and they laughed
> it off but he still accused me of illegal activity. I have no sympathy
> for him, I consider his accident karma coming back at him.

Oh pah-tui!  You don't use OS/2.  You sit in the OS/2 newsgroups
and stalk and harass me, an OS/2 advocate.  Everytime I post
you attack followed by your never-ending whine AND you do it
all using your college's subsidized 'Net access, i.e., colorado.edu.

That's reason enough for your government subsidized Administrator
to reel you in for a little discussion.  Colorado officials are pretty leery
these days of errant students.  Keep it up as you are doing now -for
no valid reason other than your petty animosity toward me for filing
the complaint in the first place -and they'll call you in again.  Eventually
they will be required -by law- -and to cover their own cans- to yank your
colorado.edu access.  You'll then have an opportunity to try and retain
an account with a private I'Net provider.  Hint:  they'll put up with your
antics for about two minutes.

You've heard of roadrage?  You've got a case of netrage.  Get a grip.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City
http://warpcity.com
"Y2K Discount for 1999 Members Ends 1/215!)



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: fruskoNOSPAM@ibm.net                              13-Dec-99 20:30:02
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:05
Subj: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: "Frank Rusko" <fruskoNOSPAM@ibm.net>

Well I called IBM today and got a very pleasant lady called
Carol as to where I could get the upgrade for Smartsuite 1.5.
She politlely informed me that they do not provide an upgrade
and only the full version was available for $339.
Needled to say I declined her offer.

I also asked if I could get a URL and download it. There is no
site.

I am wondering what is going on at IBM. This was the response
that I got from the Toronto office. 

Tim Sipples left a note on the c.o.o.announce that 1.5 was
available. 

If someone can get the upgrade for a reasonable price, please
let me know.

Thank you to all for reading this


--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au                    14-Dec-99 04:34:05
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:05
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)

Thomas Kellerer <Thomas.Kellerer@tps-labs.com> wrote:
>Here is the poor mans solution:
>
>Do not maximize the command window. 
>Call mode <columns>,<rows> (e.g. mode 80,200)
>
>If the window is not maximized you will get a scrollbar for the command
>window. 

For a superior solution, run a command shell from inside EPM.
(EPM comes configured to do this with a one-button click, i.e. you
can do it even if you don't understand the advanced features of EPM.)
This is what I do whenever I want a complete record of the 
command-line session.

Oh, yes, for anyone who didn't know: EPM is the "Enhanced Editor" that
comes as standard with all versions of OS/2.  Sorry, I can't tell you
what desktop folder it's in; I've rearranged all mine.

-- 
Peter Moylan                                         peter@ee.newcastle.edu.au
See http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au for OS/2 information and software

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            13-Dec-99 22:26:26
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:
>
> >Since the stock is down, I obviously do not have anything to do with
> >Safeway.  If I was in charge, the stock would have split four times and
> >the union would have been decertified.
>
> Your delusions are those of a person who can't ever get to the top --
> because you have to treat people intelligently to get work from them, and
> you're not capable of that.

You'll never know: first because you don't know me, and secondly, because I
would never hire the likes of you anyway.

I want people willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay;
and with your support of unionism, you obviously can't handle that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            13-Dec-99 22:31:28
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:
>
> >Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
> >workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
> >shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.
>
> >I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.
>
> This is more bull from you. The news reports of this are not out there on
> the net.

It happened.  Not everything gets posted on the net; but then again, I'm
sure you are aware that everything you read on the net is true, right?

> >> Item 2.  Calgary Herald. According to what I see, the readership has
> >> falled 45% because of public support for the union.
>
> >Not this reader...
> >In fact, I'm thinking of putting my subscription back to daily.
>
> You didn't support the union, but you did stop reading -- yet you claim to
> know what isn't out there in the news reports.... Looks like more BS from
> here.

I haven't stopped reading the Herald.  I receive it on Fridays and Sundays.
I also receive the National Post daily.

I listen to the local talk-radio station all day long, and I watch the news
every night.

> >> Didn't find the violence stuff in the news.
> >Funny.  Workers have been arrested.
>
> Give us the URLs.   I meant your a hotshit at an ISP. So go to it. Give us
> the paths or post the stories to prove you're not full of BS.

I'm secure enough to know that what I'm saying is true.

> >> Item 3.  All I see on the violence is, well I'll quote a witness; "I
guess
> >> his fingers [the Bank Manager] got hurt on someone's windpipe."
>
> >There's been many CUPW walkouts (most near Christmas -- go figure).
>
> I guess the managers are morons to write contracts with dates that can
> lead to problems at their highest sales period.  -- You would fit right
> in.

I guess the CUPW members know when their whining and walking off the job
will inconvenience the public the most.

> >> Got any more examples of the big bad unions? Anything beyond Canada? Is
> >> this your best "union goons and their rent-a-mob tactics" stuff?
>
> >Check into the last Ontario election and what the union goons did to the
> >Mike Harris campaign (he won, by the way).
>
> Changing the subject?  You said the unions caused the violence.

They did.  Research what happened in the last Ontario election.  Unions
constantly dogged the Conservative campaign, protesting, demonstrating,
heckling, harassing, destroying signs, and intimidating campaign workers.

But I guess that anything not posted on the 'net isn't true in your
perverted, twisted, leftist world, is it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               13-Dec-99 22:03:20
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

Serenity Systems markets a Managed Client(r) product which provides
significant benefits to business users. We selected OS/2 as our
desktop client for many reasons and one is the broad range of
application support provided.

However, we continue to receive requests to support Win32
applications. Often this request is in addition to the requirement to
run Presentation Manager or WorkPlace Shell applications, which are
frequently Line of Business Applications.

After reviewing the product solutions available, we determined that
the best response to this requirement would be a hardware
modification to the workstation, enabling the system to support a
host operating system and guest operating system. Release 1 of the
product is anticipated to support an OS/2 host and a Windows guest.
The OS/2 support includes WorkSpace on Demand and OS/2 V4 (Merlin)
with support for a Managed Client, run either as a diskless RPL
client or as a traditional "fat" client.

We have put an overview of this project on our web site
(http://www.Serenity-Systems.com/), with an associated questionnaire
which will help us through our product planning. Accessing the
document requires that you have a valid log-on for the site. You can
request a log on from Info@Serenity-Systems.com. Once you log on to
the site, click on the Project Concorde image and, if it is
appropriate, complete the questionnaire.




--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: miharris@connectcorp.net                          14-Dec-99 06:45:08
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: miharris@connectcorp.net

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:26:05, aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz) 
wrote:
 
QuotedlYou idiot, you paid for BOTH products.  "Free" in that context has a
very
Quotedldifferent meaning.

Hmmm, let me get this right,.... if I purchase a product for X dollars
and the company says that if I make said purchase BEFORE Y date they 
would give me Z product,... but if I purchased AFTER Y date then I 
would have to pay ($$$$) for Z product.  I think most ppl would agree 
with my interpretation of "free"  I'm sure you'd take a car dealer up 
on THAT offer if it were made to you,... but then again since you're 
the "smarter" one, you'd probably say naaah,  let the "idot" purchase 
it, since .....("Free" in that context has a very different meaning.) 
to you! ;^)
 

                        _\\|//_    Pssst!
                       (` o-o ') /
        ---------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------

The Box said, "Requires Windows95 or better."
I use better, much better thank you...
                                         
Warped with OS/2 4.0 at FP 8 and Java 1.1.7A
_______________________________________
M   i   k   e   "D a B u l l"     H   a   r   r   i   s       

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  
Undernet
#OS/2: Chanop
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/  

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    14-Dec-99 05:17:10
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

In article <3855CF6B.64A2719A@WarpCity.com>,
Tim Martin  <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>Jason Bowen wrote:
>
>> >Now that was uncalled for. Good God man, have you no sense of decency?
>>
>> Tim told blatant lies about me, accused me of illegal activities that
>> are punishable by jail time, and didn't have a shred of proof.  I
>> actually had to have a meeting with my boss and the abuse person over his
>> lies, of course I quickly showed them what an ass he was and they laughed
>> it off but he still accused me of illegal activity. I have no sympathy
>> for him, I consider his accident karma coming back at him.
>
>Oh pah-tui!  You don't use OS/2.  You sit in the OS/2 newsgroups
>and stalk and harass me, an OS/2 advocate.  Everytime I post
>you attack followed by your never-ending whine AND you do it
>all using your college's subsidized 'Net access, i.e., colorado.edu.

You are so crazy with your persecution.  The accident was karma for sure.
My dislike of you has nothing to do with OS/2, it has to do with you being
a jerk.

>
>That's reason enough for your government subsidized Administrator
>to reel you in for a little discussion.  Colorado officials are pretty leery
>these days of errant students.  Keep it up as you are doing now -for
>no valid reason other than your petty animosity toward me for filing
>the complaint in the first place -and they'll call you in again.  Eventually
>they will be required -by law- -and to cover their own cans- to yank your
>colorado.edu access.  You'll then have an opportunity to try and retain
>an account with a private I'Net provider.  Hint:  they'll put up with your
>antics for about two minutes.

You're so compeltely full of crap.  Like I said the impact wasn't nearly
hard enough.  You never had anything on me and never will.  You keep
spouting your crazy persecution talk.  Report me Tim, you will get laughed
at again.  REPORT ME!!!!! DO IT!!!!  YOU'RE ALL TALK!

>

>You've heard of roadrage?  You've got a case of netrage.  Get a grip.

You're the one spouting the persecution complex, you need to get the grip.
You're the one convinced that your use of an OS is the reason people think
you are a nut.  Are you really convinced that people don't like you
because you use OS/2?

>
>Tim Martin
>The OS/2 Guy
>Warp City
>http://warpcity.com
>"Y2K Discount for 1999 Members Ends 1/215!)
>
>
>


--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               13-Dec-99 21:32:12
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Jason Bowen wrote:

> >You've heard of roadrage?  You've got a case of netrage.  Get a grip.
>
> You're the one spouting the persecution complex, you need to get the grip.
> You're the one convinced that your use of an OS is the reason people think
> you are a nut.  Are you really convinced that people don't like you
> because you use OS/2?
>

Please, explain to all of us why it is you -A NON OS/2 USER- has
lived, harassed and attacked OS/2 users in this newsgroup for
several years now.  Don't try turning it around and whining that
'it's everybody else - it's not me, the problem is you' because
that claim stinks as bad as your antics.

You simply will not give up.  You won't stop.  You stalk,
you harass, you whine again and again.  Then someone
complains to your government subsidized I'Net administrator
and you get called on the carpet for the antics.  Do you stop?
NO!  GOOD GOD NO!  By God if it takes from now until
doomsday you'll ride that OS/2 Newsgroup information
highway and ride with NetRAGE on the hood!

Drive on dude.  Right over the nearest OS/2 cliff.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City
http://warpcity.com
"Y2K Discount for 1999 Members Ends 1/215!)



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    14-Dec-99 06:06:29
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

In article <3855D669.7AADAEE0@WarpCity.com>,
Tim Martin  <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>Jason Bowen wrote:
>
>> >You've heard of roadrage?  You've got a case of netrage.  Get a grip.
>>
>> You're the one spouting the persecution complex, you need to get the grip.
>> You're the one convinced that your use of an OS is the reason people think
>> you are a nut.  Are you really convinced that people don't like you
>> because you use OS/2?
>>
>
>Please, explain to all of us why it is you -A NON OS/2 USER- has
>lived, harassed and attacked OS/2 users in this newsgroup for
>several years now.  Don't try turning it around and whining that
>'it's everybody else - it's not me, the problem is you' because
>that claim stinks as bad as your antics.

No you are convinced that people dislike you because of your use of an OS.
Just because this happens in an OS/2 newsgroup doen't mean it is about
OS/2.  You are too stupid to realize that.  I dislike you because you lie
and laughed when I heard that you got hurt.  You don't deserve pity,
somebody that will lie and hate over a corporate product needs to get a
grip.  Since you are making claims Tim back them up, point to a post where
I harass somebody because they use OS/2, in other words I harass them
because of a product they use.  You can't do it Tim because I don't.  Find
a post where I say that I am doing something because somebody uses OS/2.


>
>You simply will not give up.  You won't stop.  You stalk,
>you harass, you whine again and again.  Then someone
>complains to your government subsidized I'Net administrator
>and you get called on the carpet for the antics.  Do you stop?
>NO!  GOOD GOD NO!  By God if it takes from now until
>doomsday you'll ride that OS/2 Newsgroup information
>highway and ride with NetRAGE on the hood!

Look at your froth at the mouth.  You and "Nick" were laughed at, making
legal complaints with no other contact means than an email address.  I
wasn't called on the carpet.  A complaint was lodged, investigated,
laughed at and thrown out.  You are a joke, you lied, you know you lied
and don't deny it.  I ride you for telling lies about me.  The meeting was
actually a fun time, showing what an ass you are and how inept you are at
your job.  The only bad part was the abuse person getting annoyed with you
and telling you to shut up unless you had proof of your accusations.


>
>Drive on dude.  Right over the nearest OS/2 cliff.

You're rantings don't make sense but since the are fueled by a persecution
complex I am not suprised.

>
>Tim Martin
>The OS/2 Guy
>Warp City
>http://warpcity.com
>"Y2K Discount for 1999 Members Ends 1/215!)
>
>
>


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From: reedjd@bitsmart.com                               14-Dec-99 05:43:26
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 03:29:06
Subj: Real Player 5.0 for Win-OS/2

From: reedjd@bitsmart.com

I'm having problems getting RealPlayer 5.0 to work in Win-OS2.

I installed my SB16 PnP drivers and tested it with some .WAV files.
Then I installed the Win32 1.25s.
Then I installed Microsoft Video for Windows.
Finally, in went Real Player 5.0

Now, when I play a video.  The video runs just fine, but the audio
sounds like someone hitting an empty tin can about twice a second
(clank clank clank clank...).

I tried uninstalling/reinstalling SB16 and RealPlayer without success.
Suggestions?


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  14-Dec-99 10:06:00
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:16
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Michael Magnus write:
> Gerry Britton wrote:
> 
> > >MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because they've realized that
> > >there's no way they can win the case due to the tyrannical anti-business
> > >laws in force.
> > >
> > >In short, they're cutting their losses.
> > 
> > Complete fantasy and utter nonsense. MS should & will be broken into
> > profitable little pieces

Should we take parts of your property and give them away to others?  If not
with you, why with Gates?

> If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit.

If the U.S. government bored down and said it was going to take something
you owned and 'take it over' and 'break it apart' would you not take the
money and run?  I sure would, as would anybody with the brains to know that
better to set it on fire than let the government touch it.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: larso@commodore.                                  14-Dec-99 10:08:17
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:16
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Bob Germer write:
>    "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

> > Only a fascist would try to harm another because they have a different
> > opinion.
> 
> Society sets limits upon individual freedom within carefully defined laws
> to protect the minority. That Ormberg has the right to print (broad
> definition) his assinine opinions is absolute SO LONG AS THOSE RANTINGS DO
> NOT VIOLATE THE RULES OF THE ORGANIZATION HE CLAIMS TO REPRESENT.

Are you slow enough to require a disclaimer on every person's opinion to
inform you of who they do and do not represent with them?

> Were I a facist, I would investigate you thoroughly and do exactly that.
> If you refuse to accept that I am not a facist, I may be forced to become
> one in your case.

Well, that's evidence of rationality if _I_ ever heard it.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kimwaicNOSPAM@deltanet.com                        14-Dec-99 02:27:08
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:16
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicNOSPAM@deltanet.com>

On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:26:00 -0500, Jerry McBride wrote:

>I just saw that "non-issue" pop-up yesterday on my Warp Server for eBusiness
>powered computer. Really shocked me! :') As advanced as WSEB is, it's
basically
>the same old OS/2 engine underneath.
>

Not exactly.    In WsEB, the Network layer sits on the lowest pile and the
WPS is all but isolated in a small corner.    Even device drivers are "more
isolated" from each other (DISCLAIMER: I am no device driver expert).    It's
also fully optimized to function as a server.    In addition, most sane
network administrator would peel PM off from their server - and run alone.

>Although this is described as a fix, it's more of a work around for probably

I don't think they intended it to be a "fix" for WsEB because as I said
above, you wouldn't want to run anything at the server anyway.

>the worst part of OS/2's basic design.
>

You have Microsoft to thank for that.

>The SIQ is still "alive and well", just monitored a bit better... :')

It's there - but it's pretty predictable too.



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From: larso@commodore.                                  14-Dec-99 10:04:06
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:16
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw cbass2112@my-deja.com write:
> In article <8311g5$a7f$2@burn.ab.videon.ca>,
>   larso@ualberta.ca wrote:
> 
> > When the legal definition of a monopoly fails to correlate with
> > reality, the law is at fault.
> 
> By what authority do you determine what is and isn't reality?

I tend to try realism.  van Fraassen style, perhaps.

> > No law should define Microsoft as a monopoly (since it isn't).
> 
> By what authority do you state what is and isn't a monopoly?

That if a "monopoly" has competitors, the definition is of a company winning
a competition, which isn't a monopoly.

There's a difference between being a winning team and the only team.
Antitrust law fails to accept this.

> > Microsoft has competitors.
> 
> 90+ % of the OS and Office Suite markets, and you say they have
> "competitors?"

Yes.  Who do you think the other fucking ten percent of the _market share_ is?

>                  The only real "competitor" is an OS that's given away
> for free!

Hmm, offering software at a lower price...sounds like the work of an active
competitor to me.

> > Any other definition (ie. U.S. law) is rotten to the core.
> 
> By what authority do you state what is and isn't "rotten to the core?"

A law which restricts freedom and denies reality is rotten.  Failing to
agree with this is to succumb to morality defined by law, which is the first
sign of a sheep.

> > The problem with the WHOLE LAW is that it defies reality and the
> > rights of a business.
> 
> By what authority do you determine what "rights" a business has?

Property rights.  You know, the right to property?


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dmhills@attglobal.net                             14-Dec-99 23:49:07
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:17
Subj: Re: Xcopy with re-start options

From: dmhills@attglobal.net (Don Hills)

In article <38555E18.74FE7D9C@t-online.de>,
Thomas Kneisel <Thomas.Kneisel@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>In a first step you can use the "archive"-attribute to mark all files
>which were actually copied by xcopy (option /M). After a failure, "xcopy
>/A" should copy only those files which were not copied in the first step.
You just need XCOPY /M.

1/. ATTRIB +A *.* /S to set all the archive bits in the tree to be copied.
2/. COPY *.* A: /M /S to copy files (in this case, until the floppy is full).
    The Archive bit will be turned off for all successfully copied files.
3/. Insert new floppy and repeat step 2.

--
Don Hills    (dmhills at attglobaldotnet)     Wellington, New Zealand

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From: maxikins@os2bbs.com                               14-Dec-99 11:26:18
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:17
Subj: Re: Real Player 5.0 for Win-OS/2

From: maxikins@os2bbs.com (Mark Klebanoff)

Try turning up the program priority. That helped worked for me
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 05:43:52, reedjd@bitsmart.com wrote:

> I'm having problems getting RealPlayer 5.0 to work in Win-OS2.
> 
> I installed my SB16 PnP drivers and tested it with some .WAV files.
> Then I installed the Win32 1.25s.
> Then I installed Microsoft Video for Windows.
> Finally, in went Real Player 5.0
> 
> Now, when I play a video.  The video runs just fine, but the audio
> sounds like someone hitting an empty tin can about twice a second
> (clank clank clank clank...).
> 
> I tried uninstalling/reinstalling SB16 and RealPlayer without success.
> Suggestions?
> 
> 
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net                            14-Dec-99 11:41:06
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 11:41:17
Subj: Re: Psion Link for Warp

From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net (Karel Jansens)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:48:20, "Kelvin Tsang" <ktkelvin@yahoo.com> 
wrote:

> A million thanks, Karel.
> Kelvin
> 
Da nada.

I just came across another one. It's called WinLink, from a company 
called "Yellow Computing". I cannot mail it to you, because it's not 
freeware. I bought it on a CD-ROM, stuffed to the rim with other 
Series3x goodies. Maybe it's still around somewhere.

WinLink is in fact a Windows 3.x program that seems to provide a 
graphical, File Manager-like, frontend to the DOS utilities. Not only 
will it run smoothly under WoinOS/2, it is actually the first Windows 
program I've come around that runs *faster* under WinOS/2 (I checked 
with plain-vanilla Windows 3.1).

Karel Jansens
jansens_at_attglobal_dot_net
=======================================================
"The method employed I would gladly explain,
While I have it so clear in my head,
If I had but the time and you had but the brain -
But much yet remains to be said."

the Hunting of the Snark (Lewis Carroll)
=======================================================

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               14-Dec-99 08:33:24
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Nino wrote:
> But OS/2 1.1 was maybe the most important OS/2
> version ever : it's most important feature was PM, Presentation Manager,
> fast
> and reliable, that we still use today when running Warp.

Fast and reliable?  Not that 1st version of PM!  It took them another two
tries to stabilize it.

> OS/2 1.1 is
> thus the first operating system for PC with a GUI,

Not even close.  GEM existed by then, as did Windows 2, and there were about
half a dozen PC UNIXen with X11 support by then (I used three of them).  So
not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.

Not that OS/2 wasn't important.  It surely was.  It was a boondoggle for half
of the really established PC companies at the time, including IBM and Lotus. 
While people went off and chased OS/2 Microsoft kept building Windows things
and eventually shoved it all down the PC vendors' throats and companies with
much better products lost their hold of their respective markets to Microsoft.

jim

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     14-Dec-99 06:30:12
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"Steven C. Britton" wrote:

> Michael Magnus wrote:
> >
>
> > If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit. He would
> > probably triple his wealth because he would own a good deal of the
> > smaller M$ pieces. This is precisely what happened to Rockafeller when
> > Standard Oil was broken up 100 years ago.
>
> It's a sad state of affairs in the world when someone is called a theif and
> a bandit for being good at marketing a product.

Even if these 100+ year old laws are unfair, it's a fool who cannot work
around
them.  Alas, MS has become the poster child for the malcontents.

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From: josco@ibm.net                                     14-Dec-99 06:43:03
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"Steven C. Britton" wrote:

> Ed Letourneau wrote:
> >
> > >Since the stock is down, I obviously do not have anything to do with
> > >Safeway.  If I was in charge, the stock would have split four times and
> > >the union would have been decertified.
> >
> > Your delusions are those of a person who can't ever get to the top --
> > because you have to treat people intelligently to get work from them, and
> > you're not capable of that.
>
> You'll never know: first because you don't know me, and secondly, because I
> would never hire the likes of you anyway.
>
> I want people willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay;
> and with your support of unionism, you obviously can't handle that.

--
http://www.sjmercury.com/svtech/news/breaking/merc/docs/attrac121499.htm
"Talent grab: Desperate companies shower workers with wealth"

Indeed, today's job applicants are like sports free agents plying their skills
to the highest bidders, asking for everything from signing bonuses and
severance
packages to stock options and unusual perks. Even college students are feeling
emboldened, winning signing bonuses and grilling recruiters about the
employees'
``work-life balance.''
--



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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          14-Dec-99 13:15:24
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:06:58, bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason 
Bowen) wrote:
snip
> 
> Look at your froth at the mouth.  You and "Nick" were laughed at, making
> legal complaints with no other contact means than an email address.  I
> wasn't called on the carpet.  A complaint was lodged, investigated,
> laughed at and thrown out.  You are a joke, you lied, you know you lied
> and don't deny it.  I ride you for telling lies about me.  The meeting was
> actually a fun time, showing what an ass you are and how inept you are at
> your job.  The only bad part was the abuse person getting annoyed with you
> and telling you to shut up unless you had proof of your accusations.
> 
> 
> >
> >Drive on dude.  Right over the nearest OS/2 cliff.
> 
> You're rantings don't make sense but since the are fueled by a persecution
> complex I am not suprised.

So, "Jason", let me see if I've got this right: You've already had a 
formal warning about using USENET improperly? Why not learn from that 
experience and stop mailing personal correspondence to these groups? 
It's not only more "legal" but more respectful of the rest of us.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: piquant00@uswestmail.net                          14-Dec-99 13:40:08
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: Large hard disks installation

From: piquant00@uswestmail.net (Annie K.)

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:33:20, locke@www.esi.us.es (Jose Manuel Pavon 
Alvarez) wrote:

:I've been trying to install OS/2 4.0 on a 6GB hard disk and I
:    found out that it doesn't read properly the partition table.
:    I know there's some kind of patch for the installation floppies
:    so that it detects the hard disk correctly.
:    Does anybody know where can I get them from?

 ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/os2ddpak/idedasd.exe

-- 
Klaatu barada nikto

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From: raphaelt@netnews.worldnet.att.net                 14-Dec-99 08:59:20
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: raphaelt@netnews.worldnet.att.net (Raphael Tennenbaum)

peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) wrote:

>Thomas Kellerer <Thomas.Kellerer@tps-labs.com> wrote:
>>Here is the poor mans solution:
>>
>>Do not maximize the command window. 
>>Call mode <columns>,<rows> (e.g. mode 80,200)
>>
>>If the window is not maximized you will get a scrollbar for the command
>>window. 
>
>For a superior solution, run a command shell from inside EPM.
>(EPM comes configured to do this with a one-button click, i.e. you
>can do it even if you don't understand the advanced features of EPM.)
>This is what I do whenever I want a complete record of the 
>command-line session.

Never knew this before this thread.  Is there a command-line
parameter that'll start EPM with this shell?

-- 
Ray Tennenbaum        '99 YZF-R6
readme@ http://www.ray-field.com

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        14-Dec-99 14:37:06
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: ExaByte 8200 & tar

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

Has anyone managed to use tar (part of GTAK258) with an ExaByte 8200
tape drive?

--
John

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From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk                     14-Dec-99 14:39:18
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:14
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk (Glen)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 02:32:10, larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg) wrote:

> > > > Microsoft have made it very difficult for anyone to go 
> > > > in a direction that Microsoft aren't happy with.
> > 
> > > How did they do this?
> > > 
> > > None of the responses to this question, by the way, have been anything
other
> > > than a collection of businesses exercising their property rights.
> > > 
> > Obviously Microsoft doesn't have the right to do what it's been doing,
> > otherwise the FoF would have reflected this.
> 
> That the U.S. Government takes this right away doesn't mean it exists.  You
> have to realize that something being legal doesn't make it moral, and that
> the government giving or taking something doesn't confer or remove a status
> as a "right".
> 

Where do you get your definition of "right"?  I'm talking about the 
behaviour of a company living under US law.  Maybe in Ormbergland 
Microsoft would be encouraged to do what they've been doing, but let's
keep this discussion to the real world.

> > > >                                                       That makes it
very 
> > > > difficult for someone to abandon Windows, as you suggested above, 
> > > > because the alternative is (virtually) nothing.
> > > 
> > > Virtually nothing isn't nothing.
> > > 
> > I never said it was.  If all your personal belongings disappear 
> > leaving you with virtually nothing are you going to be happy?
> 
> You're trying to compare a situation where small but not zero is just as
> acceptible as very large, with another situation where any size other than
> zero is reprehensible.
> 

What I'm saying is that just because alternatives to Windows exist 
doesn't make them definite viable alternatives.  A platform with 
little support (from users and developers) is as good as a platform 
with no support.  For a lot of people, moving away from Windows will 
put them in a worse situation then they're currently in.  This isn't 
because the alternatives are of a poor quality or expensive upkeep but
because of poor support.  This fact means they'll put up with the poor
quality of Windows and Microsoft's business practices even though they
don't like them.

> > > There is no guarantee that Mr. NoWindows is going to find it as easy or
as
> > > cheap to buy a computer than Mr. Windows is.  That's the nature of life.
> > 
> > It's not the nature of life at all.  This is the computing industry 
> > we're talking about not the universe and all things within it.
> 
> The computer industry, last time I checked, was in the Universe.
> 
> The computer industry, last time I checked, was an industry.  Industry works
> best when government backs off.
> 

I'm sure it does.  Serial killers would also get their work done 
quicker if the police would stop interfering.  In this case, the 
goverment are intervening because they believe Microsoft's actions are
detrimental to the consumers.  I agree with them.

> > >                                                                          
If
> > > you want to buy a rare CD or piece of art, you'll have to hunt for it
while
> > > a person wanting Britney Spears or Dogs Playing Poker will pick up what
they
> > > want in a breeze.
> > > 
> > OS/2, Linux, BeOS...etc are not rare pieces of art.
> 
> No, but likewise they are something that only appeals to a small group of
> people.
> 

You're comparing the availablity of a non-Windows OS with the 
availability of rare art.  It doesn't work.

> Not surpisingly, this small group of people aren't going to find it in every
> store.  Nor _should_ they, because I doubt the stores want to waste their
> time.
> 
> > glass case and stared at.  It *should* be easy to pick up alternate 
> > OSs at my local software retailer but it isn't
> 
> Why *should* it?  Why *should* you be able to get a product whereever you
> want, regardless of whether or not somebody wants to get it and/or sell it?
> 

I'd like to see a market where any new technology can present itself 
to the consumers and the consumers decide what stays and what goes.  
When competition is allowed to thrive then the consumers benefit 
through increased quality of products/services and lowering of prices.
 This is what happens in other markets but not in the computer market.
 Microsoft is in the comfortable position of not having to make 
Windows work properly and not needing to put a low price tag on it.  
Is this because the consumers have rejected the competition due to its
low quality and high cost?  No.  If you believe it is then you're very
naive.

> > > 
> > So imagine the terror you'd feel as Microsoft CEO if it became common 
> > knowledge that Windows is being out-performed by most of its 
> > competitors.
> > 
> >                   You'd work very hard to make sure the other runners 
> > never see the light of day.
> 
> Yep.  Any business would.  And so long as they behaved, they'd be justified.
> Microsoft, it should be said, behaved.  It didn't force anybody to do
> anything that they didn't want to do.
> 

An so we arrive back at square 1.  Read the FoF.  If you don't believe
what is written there then wait and see how Microsofts lawyers prove 
it isn't true.  I can't wait myself.

> -- 
> Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
> mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
> The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/
> 

Glen
-<remove Z from my e-mail Address>-

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          14-Dec-99 15:20:26
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:30:25, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
> "Steven C. Britton" wrote:
> 
> > It's a sad state of affairs in the world when someone is called a theif
and
> > a bandit for being good at marketing a product.
> 
> Even if these 100+ year old laws are unfair, it's a fool who cannot work
around
> them.  Alas, MS has become the poster child for the malcontents.

And someday I want to meet, or at least find out all about, the 
marketing geniuses who conceived of, and succeeded at, deriving $5/hit
Crack Cocaine from $100/gm powdered blow. 

Talk about being brilliant about marketing a product, not even to 
mention "working around" the laws. Makes BG's criminality look like 
small beer, and that takes some doing.

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      14-Dec-99 16:25:17
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:30:25 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Steven C. Britton" wrote:
>
>> Michael Magnus wrote:
>> >
>>
>> > If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit. He would
>> > probably triple his wealth because he would own a good deal of the
>> > smaller M$ pieces. This is precisely what happened to Rockafeller when
>> > Standard Oil was broken up 100 years ago.
>>
>> It's a sad state of affairs in the world when someone is called a theif and
>> a bandit for being good at marketing a product.
>
>Even if these 100+ year old laws are unfair, it's a fool who cannot work
around
>them.  Alas, MS has become the poster child for the malcontents.


And to show that in many ways the Sherman Anti-Trust act was a paper
tiger, Rockefeller, one way or the other, continued to 'control' all
of the various components of Standard Oil.  But, it sure looked good
to the general public, but was meaningless in the end.
>

EBB

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: glend@nospam.direct.ca                            14-Dec-99 09:13:06
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Glenn Davies <glend@nospam.direct.ca>

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:25:35 GMT, siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E.
Barry Bruyea) wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:30:25 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Steven C. Britton" wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Magnus wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>> > If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit. He would
>>> > probably triple his wealth because he would own a good deal of the
>>> > smaller M$ pieces. This is precisely what happened to Rockafeller when
>>> > Standard Oil was broken up 100 years ago.
>>>
>>> It's a sad state of affairs in the world when someone is called a theif
and
>>> a bandit for being good at marketing a product.
>>
>>Even if these 100+ year old laws are unfair, it's a fool who cannot work
around
>>them.  Alas, MS has become the poster child for the malcontents.
>
>
>And to show that in many ways the Sherman Anti-Trust act was a paper
>tiger, Rockefeller, one way or the other, continued to 'control' all
>of the various components of Standard Oil.  But, it sure looked good
>to the general public, but was meaningless in the end.
>>

If the goal was to relieve Rockefeller from control of Standard Oil's
assets than that might be correct but if the goal to was to open
competition in different fields then that conclusion isn't
supportable. 

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: skrise@attglobal.net                              14-Dec-99 10:07:02
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: skrise@attglobal.net

Jason Bowen wrote:
> Tim Martin  <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>>Jason Bowen wrote:
<mean spirited back and forth snipped>

FOR FUCK'S SAKE, BOYS!!

You are both acting in a completely irresponsible manner.
If you all can't just get along at least have the decency
to not waste bandwidth with your puerile pissing contests.

The both of you are ruining this newsgroup for the benefit
of your own personal vendettas and making extremely difficult
for those of us who actually have questions to ask about OS/2.

Please, stop it now.

Steven
-- 
Abstainer: a weak person who yields
           to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure.
           ... Ambrose Bierce

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    14-Dec-99 15:37:17
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

In article <38565D18.2B9B@attglobal.net>,  <skrise@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Jason Bowen wrote:
>> Tim Martin  <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>>>Jason Bowen wrote:
><mean spirited back and forth snipped>
>
>FOR FUCK'S SAKE, BOYS!!
>
>You are both acting in a completely irresponsible manner.
>If you all can't just get along at least have the decency
>to not waste bandwidth with your puerile pissing contests.
>
>The both of you are ruining this newsgroup for the benefit
>of your own personal vendettas and making extremely difficult
>for those of us who actually have questions to ask about OS/2.
>
>Please, stop it now.

It's up to you Tim, feel like acknowledging publicly that I didn't
crack or attempt to crack Warp City?


>
>Steven
>-- 
>Abstainer: a weak person who yields
>           to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure.
>           ... Ambrose Bierce


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu                    14-Dec-99 15:31:15
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason Bowen)

In article <jORXtcYCR8l4-pn2-K5cQtbbdhOUT@SPHERICALBURN.TAMPABAY.RR.COM>,
Buddy Donnelly <donnelly@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:06:58, bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason 
>Bowen) wrote:
>snip
>> 
>> Look at your froth at the mouth.  You and "Nick" were laughed at, making
>> legal complaints with no other contact means than an email address.  I
>> wasn't called on the carpet.  A complaint was lodged, investigated,
>> laughed at and thrown out.  You are a joke, you lied, you know you lied
>> and don't deny it.  I ride you for telling lies about me.  The meeting was
>> actually a fun time, showing what an ass you are and how inept you are at
>> your job.  The only bad part was the abuse person getting annoyed with you
>> and telling you to shut up unless you had proof of your accusations.
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> >Drive on dude.  Right over the nearest OS/2 cliff.
>> 
>> You're rantings don't make sense but since the are fueled by a persecution
>> complex I am not suprised.
>
>So, "Jason", let me see if I've got this right: You've already had a 
>formal warning about using USENET improperly? Why not learn from that 
>experience and stop mailing personal correspondence to these groups? 
>It's not only more "legal" but more respectful of the rest of us.

For the record I have received no formal warning, Tim can tell you what CU
said about their view on usenet flame wars I am not in any trouble of any
sort, Tim is full of it. Tim lied about me in a public forum and
continues to lie.  I'd leave him be if he apoligized and acknowledged his
lie.  Tim claimed to have contacted the FBI and the Colorado State
Attorney Generals office of my alleged cracking of Warp City and didn't
provide a shred of evidence.  Tim has personally attacked people on the
OS/2 newsgroups as far back as I can remember.  This is about Tim's lies
about me cracking Warp City, nothing about posting in OS/2 newsgroups.  CU
would do something if I was attacking Tim for helping OS/2 users.  For
instance if Tim posted to help somebody with Netscape and I replied to it
saying you are a friggin dork Tim they'd admonish me.  I only reply to
attacks he does on others and his replies to that.  I am not under any
"thumb".  I don't start fights outright with Tim, I wait for him to post
his vitriol and then jump on him.  Tim has basically libled me in a public
forum, called me a criminal  when I didn't participate in any criminal
acts.  My participation in flame wars like this is no different than Tim's
rantings and I don't start the off topic posts.  I do reply to them though
helping perpetuate them.  Tim can admit his lie and apologize but he
doesn't have that kind of courage so he won't.  If he did I'd completely
leave him along, quite impressed that he apologized.

>
>--
>
>Good luck,
>
>Buddy
>
>Buddy Donnelly
>donnelly@tampabay.rr.com
>
>


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          14-Dec-99 15:30:25
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: %TEMP% 

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:55:35, jpinet.juehara@Pronix.discovery.net 
(Julio Uehara) wrote:

> On 14 Dec 1999 09:02:57 GMT, Alvredus <nps@zeta.org.au> wrote:
> >This happens if you don't have an environment variable TEMP that points to
a
> >temporary directory; the need for this variable is omitted from the
> >installation instructions. Add
> >
> >	SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
> >
> >or similar to CONFIG.SYS.
> >
> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >	Nik S.
> >
> It really help me. Wrote the line on CONFIG.SYS, created the TEMP directory
> (just used the E: drive instead of C:) and rebooted. It worked on the first
try!
> It not only allowed me to postpone messages but also save messages from
> my inbox.
> 
> Thanks a lot Nik!

And a note on the Temp variable(s): This should have been straightened
out at IBM-level long ago, but I see that even they persist in 
screwing up our systems, a la the latest Lotus install.

You should have two entries in CONFIG.SYS, not one. There are programs
that use the %TEMP% variable, and there are programs that use the 
%TMP% variable. Some of these will deposit large files and not dispose
of them, so it is much cleaner to point both of these to an 
easy-to-check directory, not one buried down a directory tree 
somewhere out of the way.

So, how about:
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\TEMP
assuming you've got enough space on C: to allow this. Otherwise, 
change the partition letter.

Or, more sleekly:
SET BUDTEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TEMP=%BUDTEMP%
SET TMP=%TEMP%
which lets me change my %BUDTEMP% variable on the fly and the other 
two will follow along. And then check your CONFIG.SYS periodically to 
make sure program installs haven't screwed with this setup. Using 
CONFIGSORT helps a lot in locating multiple variable assignments, by 
the way.



-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: ktkelvin@yahoo.com                                15-Dec-99 00:10:24
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: Psion Link for Warp

From: "Kelvin Tsang" <ktkelvin@yahoo.com>

Thanks for yr info, but I need only the one works
on OS/2.

Kelvin


<jansens_at_ibm_dot_net (Karel Jansens)> wrote in message
news:L9BY9tzSDwrQ-pn2-mGgwZ7yXfucy@localhost...
> I just came across another one. It's called WinLink, from a company
> called "Yellow Computing". I cannot mail it to you, because it's not
> freeware. I bought it on a CD-ROM, stuffed to the rim with other
> Series3x goodies. Maybe it's still around somewhere.
>
> WinLink is in fact a Windows 3.x program that seems to provide a
> graphical, File Manager-like, frontend to the DOS utilities. Not only
> will it run smoothly under WoinOS/2, it is actually the first Windows
> program I've come around that runs *faster* under WinOS/2 (I checked
> with plain-vanilla Windows 3.1).
>
> Karel Jansens
> jansens_at_attglobal_dot_net



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: domi@kenavo.NOSPAM.fi                             14-Dec-99 16:26:00
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 14:35:15
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: domi@kenavo.NOSPAM.fi (Dominique Pivard)

Thank you very much for your extremely detailed explanation, it was 
nice to know a bit more about the background! Hopefully, all this 
doesn't apply to myself, since I use neither PC, nor Object Desktop 
(and I still mostly run Warp 3, albeit with FP32, which may exhibit 
the same DOSCALL1.DLL flaw).

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:27:38, SkidMARX@att.net wrote:

> Anyway, that's the story as I know it.
> Corrections welcomed !!!

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               14-Dec-99 11:57:09
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 16:42:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>> Your delusions are those of a person who can't ever get to the top --
>> because you have to treat people intelligently to get work from them, and
>> you're not capable of that.

>You'll never know: first because you don't know me, and secondly, because
>I would never hire the likes of you anyway.
>I want people willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay;
>and with your support of unionism, you obviously can't handle that.

Your first error is the assumption that I would want to work for an
asshole.  Your second error is assuming that all your contradictory
utterances have passed unnoticed.

-- I especially liked the one about how your workers would never want to
unionize because you would treat them so well, and then hours later in
another message you said that if someone is starving the only remedy
should be handouts from passers-by and charity.

I do wish you would do some _real work and give us the URLs to document
your claims. 

_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: letoured@nospam.net                               14-Dec-99 11:50:10
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 16:42:03
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>> >Customers in Edmonton had to run a "gauntlet" of angry striking Safeway
>> >workers on their way out of the store, many being physically pushed and
>> >shoved as screaming lunatics got in their faces.
>> >I'd have fired the lot of them on the spot.
>> This is more bull from you. The news reports of this are not out there on
>> the net.
>It happened.  Not everything gets posted on the net; but then again, I'm
>sure you are aware that everything you read on the net is true, right?

Like your reply here? Now you're telling us that the news media in Canada
must also be lying and led by thugs, since there isn't anything to back up
your claims.


>> >> Item 2.  Calgary Herald. According to what I see, the readership has
>> >> falled 45% because of public support for the union.
>> >Not this reader...
>> >In fact, I'm thinking of putting my subscription back to daily.
>> >> Didn't find the violence stuff in the news.
>> >Funny.  Workers have been arrested.
>> Give us the URLs.   I meant your a hotshit at an ISP. So go to it. Give us
>> the paths or post the stories to prove you're not full of BS.
>I'm secure enough to know that what I'm saying is true.

Ah, Yes. I'm not surprised. You're  the wanabe CEO who works for an ISP
and claims this and that about unions, but who can't deliver one URL with
information to prove the claims.  I do hope you learn this isn't
impressive thinking by you.


>> >> Item 3.  All I see on the violence is, well I'll quote a witness; "I
>guess
>> >> his fingers [the Bank Manager] got hurt on someone's windpipe."
>> >There's been many CUPW walkouts (most near Christmas -- go figure).
>> I guess the managers are morons to write contracts with dates that can
>> lead to problems at their highest sales period.  -- You would fit right
>> in.

>I guess the CUPW members know when their whining and walking off the job
>will inconvenience the public the most.

Do you understand anything about collective bargaining?  How about the
asses in management who signed a contract that allowed this during their
busy season?


>They did.  Research what happened in the last Ontario election.  Unions
>constantly dogged the Conservative campaign, protesting, demonstrating,
>heckling, harassing, destroying signs, and intimidating campaign workers.

>But I guess that anything not posted on the 'net isn't true in your
>perverted, twisted, leftist world, is it?

A political campaign and the rights of free people have been violated
(according to you), and you end by telling us that its someone elses fault
that it didn't make it into the history pages!   Someone with real CEO
material on their shoulders would step up to the challenge and show us
something more then whining and sniveling.



_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          14-Dec-99 17:34:07
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 16:42:03
Subj: [OT] was Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:31:31, bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu (Jason 
Bowen) wrote:
> 
> For the record I have received no formal warning,

And the point to take is, you've received "practical" warning. Same 
thing, to an intelligent person.

But you are now misusing USENET to conduct personal correspondence, to
the detriment of all of the rest of us, and if we all were to begin 
complaining to abuse@rintintin.colorado.edu you can not later say you 
have not had ample warning. 

I for one am now nestling you in real snuggly next to Tim in my "too 
much garbage to put up with reading" file, so I hope even if you 
didn't have the nurse in for a sponge bath both of y'all at least 
freshened your Right Guard this morning. It's quite crowded in there.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mmellin@home.com                                  14-Dec-99 18:49:09
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 16:42:03
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:30:05, "Frank Rusko" <fruskoNOSPAM@ibm.net> wrote:

> Well I called IBM today and got a very pleasant lady called
> Carol as to where I could get the upgrade for Smartsuite 1.5.
> She politlely informed me that they do not provide an upgrade
> and only the full version was available for $339.
> Needled to say I declined her offer.

I called last Friday, the fella I spoke with had no idea what I
was talking about, but did put me on hold to check it out.  The
response was along the laines of "we hadn't been told about this
new upgrade, but I check with my boss, and he said that the upgrade
will be $209" - He also mentioned production difficulties that had
pushed the shipping date back (no ETA).  Coulda just been blowing
wind for all I know !!!

> I also asked if I could get a URL and download it. There is no
> site.
> 
> I am wondering what is going on at IBM. This was the response
> that I got from the Toronto office. 
> 
> Tim Sipples left a note on the c.o.o.announce that 1.5 was
> available. 
> 
> If someone can get the upgrade for a reasonable price, please
> let me know.

For pricing and availability, check with Inedllible Blue for:
 
AN7LBIE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 R1.5
- List Price:$472.00 - Our Price:$402.30

AN6C7IE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 v1.5 (Upgrade)
- List Price:$173.00 - Our Price:$152.60

Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...

Hope this helps,
Mark Mellin

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk                     14-Dec-99 18:56:00
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 16:42:03
Subj: Re: Pain in the ass

From: glen@rockyhorror.Zkaroo.co.uk (Glen)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:44:37, Dale Winters <dwinters@redrose.net> 
wrote:

> Sorry for the language but I am up against it after trying to get
> realplayer5.0 working under warp4.
> Hasn't anybody written an os/2 specific program that will open ra,rm,ram
> type files and play them.
>     It would seem by now its time for  somebody,who can program, to be
> tired of jumping thru hoops and come up with an os/2 program to handle
> this.
> PPLLLLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE
> 

You could try http://www.freebyte.ml.org/~boga/OS2Programs.html

Glen
-<remove Z from my e-mail Address>-

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            14-Dec-99 13:11:02
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Joseph wrote:
> >
> > I want people willing to do an honest day's work for an honest day's
pay;
> > and with your support of unionism, you obviously can't handle that.
>
> Indeed, today's job applicants are like sports free agents plying their
skills
> to the highest bidders, asking for everything from signing bonuses and
severance
> packages to stock options and unusual perks. Even college students are
feeling
> emboldened, winning signing bonuses and grilling recruiters about the
employees'
> ``work-life balance.''

Welcome to the real world.

That's what happens when there's lots of jobs and few people to fill them.
Companies have to make it worth the applicant's while to take the job.

When there's lots of people and few jobs, applicants have to make it worth
the company's while to take them.

That's what reality is all about.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          14-Dec-99 19:18:03
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:50:21, letoured@nospam.net wrote:

snip
> Someone with real CEO
> material on their shoulders would step up to the challenge and show us
> something more then whining and sniveling.

Yes, but I still can't view the taped deposition of that one CEO 
without immediately thinking the words, "whining" and "sniveling."

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            14-Dec-99 13:14:27
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> > MS is negotiating an anti-trust settlement because they've realized that
> > there's no way they can win the case due to the tyrannical anti-business
> > laws in force.
>
> > In short, they're cutting their losses.
>
> Thank you for finally realizing that your argument is with the laws of (to
> you) a foreign country. You obviously now realize that M$ is guilty of
> breaking the law and its actions are illegal.

I never said that Microsoft wasn't breaking the law.  I said that the laws
were wrong, and I said that Microsoft had done nothing wrong.

When the laws are tyrannical, and their victims realize that they can't do
anything about them because the system is so jealous of their success that
they're going to find against them anyway, the best course of action is to
cut one's losses as best one can.

If I were Bill, I'd retire; take my money, and move to the Cayman Islands
and live out the rest of my life in tax-free comfort; raising my middle
finger to the collective lunacy of the jealous left wing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            14-Dec-99 13:21:06
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau foamed:

> >It happened.  Not everything gets posted on the net; but then again, I'm
> >sure you are aware that everything you read on the net is true, right?
>
> Like your reply here? Now you're telling us that the news media in Canada
> must also be lying and led by thugs, since there isn't anything to back up
> your claims.

The events during the Safeway strike were reported on 630 CHED.  I heard the
report myself.

> >I'm secure enough to know that what I'm saying is true.

> Ah, Yes. I'm not surprised. You're  the wanabe CEO who works for an ISP
> and claims this and that about unions, but who can't deliver one URL with
> information to prove the claims.  I do hope you learn this isn't
> impressive thinking by you.

1.  I don't work for an ISP.
2.  I _am_ a CEO
3.  I don't _have_ to deliver any URLs.  The information is readily
available to those smart enough to find it.
4.  You're an idiot.

> >I guess the CUPW members know when their whining and walking off the job
> >will inconvenience the public the most.
>
> Do you understand anything about collective bargaining?

Yes:  It's lunacy.  You don't pay people based on collectiveness.  You pay
them based on merit.

> How about the asses in management who signed a contract that allowed this
during their
> busy season?

What about them?  They're beaurocrats.  Canada Post is a Crown Corporation.

 >But I guess that anything not posted on the 'net isn't true in your
> >perverted, twisted, leftist world, is it?
>
> A political campaign and the rights of free people have been violated
> (according to you), and you end by telling us that its someone elses fault
> that it didn't make it into the history pages!

You obviously can't read newspapers.  The Ontario Election was a massive
union goon battleground.

> Someone with real CEO material on their shoulders would step up to the
challenge and show us
> something more then whining and sniveling.

Someone with half a brain cell in their head would be able to research the
material and see that it's true.

The campaign was in 1998.  The Ontario Newspapers were the Toronto Star
(pro-union, by the way), Hamilton Spectator, Toronto Sun, Globe and Mail,
Ottawa Citizen.

Read up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            14-Dec-99 13:23:01
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:
>
> Your first error is the assumption that I would want to work for an
> asshole.

Nobody is forcing you to.

If you don't like your boss, quit.

> Your second error is assuming that all your contradictory utterances have
passed unnoticed.

I haven't said anything contradictory.

> -- I especially liked the one about how your workers would never want to
> unionize because you would treat them so well, and then hours later in
> another message you said that if someone is starving the only remedy
> should be handouts from passers-by and charity.

There's nothing contradictory in that.  Only an idiot would even try to tie
those two together.

> I do wish you would do some _real work and give us the URLs to document
> your claims.

I do _real_ work:  I'm not in a union.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: nick@secant.com                                   14-Dec-99 14:23:13
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: Nick Knight <nick@secant.com>

In <3855D669.7AADAEE0@WarpCity.com>, on 12/13/99 
   at 09:32 PM, Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> said:

>Please, explain to all of us why it is you -A NON OS/2 USER- has lived,
>harassed and attacked OS/2 users in this newsgroup for several years now. 
>Don't try turning it around and whining that

Have you guys ever heard of email?  You ought to try it.

Nick
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Nick Knight  <nick@secant.com>       http://nick.secant.com
Senior Software Engineer
Secant Technologies, Inc.             http://www.secant.com
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: bobmcl@ibm.net                                    13-Dec-99 11:27:20
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: IDE ZIP drive was (No subject)

From: Bob McLellan <bobmcl@ibm.net>


Lorne Sunley wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 02:28:09, rgibson@ix.netcom.com (Ron Gibson)
> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 01:00:54, lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > How about configuring it? What swiches are required on IBM's IDE
driver.
> >
> > > The IDE ZIP drive requires that you have the latest update
> > > for the IDE device drivers installed and that you are using
> > > Fixpack 6 for Warp 4 or later to obtain the removable device
> > > support.
> >
> > Hmmm...I'm using W3 FP 40 and the DANIS IDE driver. Any problems there?
>
> I should have mentioned that for Warp 3 FP 35 or greater
> is required. You should be OK with 40. DANIS506.ADD
> works fine AFAIK.
>
> >
> > > Device drivers have been moved to their own fixpack
> > > series so if you install FP 12 you should also install
> > > the DD01 fixpack.
> > >
> > > You can obtain these through RSU updates or through
> > > the FTP site ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/
> > >
> > > With the IDE ZIP you just connect it to the IDE cable
> > > (checking for Slave or Master of course) and if you
> > > have the device support installed it comes up automatically.
> > >
> > > The base device driver that is required (besides IBM1S506.add)
> > > is IBMATAPI.FLT
> >
> > > Partition the cartridge and format for FAT or HPFS.
> >
> > So then is it seen as a HDD, IOW appears in FDISK?
>
> FDISK finds it and treats it as a hard drive. That's why
> you can partition it. IIRC when you first use a cartridge
> irt will appear to have some kind of partition. Use
> FDISK to delete what's there and then allocate the
> partition. You can have more than one partition on
> the cartridge if you want. There is some obscure
> command line parameters for the driver that allow
> you to reserve drive letters for multi-partition cartridges
> but I can't remember what they are....
>
> --
>
> Lorne Sunley

 The extra switches are documented in readme.rms which is in the fixpack.
------------------------------------------------------
Bob McLellan
The Little Blue Kiwi
OS/2 Solutions for New Zeland


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From: rhb@accessv.com                                   14-Dec-99 19:55:19
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: "Rob Burton" <rhb@accessv.com>

It doesn't look like more than a Y2K fix, to me. Maybe we should all ask Tim
S. where he got his information . . .

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:49:19 GMT, Mark Mellin wrote:

  
  Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...
  
  Hope this helps,
  Mark Mellin
  



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From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net                     14-Dec-99 20:32:01
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Pain in the ass

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug Bissett)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:44:37, Dale Winters <dwinters@redrose.net> 
wrote:

> Sorry for the language but I am up against it after trying to get
> realplayer5.0 working under warp4.
> Hasn't anybody written an os/2 specific program that will open ra,rm,ram
> type files and play them.
>     It would seem by now its time for  somebody,who can program, to be
> tired of jumping thru hoops and come up with an os/2 program to handle
> this.
> PPLLLLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE
> 
 
AFAIK, there is only ONE native OS/2 Realplayer, and that is a port 
from "Amiga Real Audio decoder 1.1/2.0 with DART playback", which is 
ANCIENT. Look for LBRAPLAY002A.ZIP at HOBBES:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/

It does work, with some older format RealPlayer things, but it is 
definitely NOT going to play the G2 level files. I am not sure if 
RealPlayer 5.0 actually works under WinOS2. Perhaps someone else has 
tried that. I did find (a year or so ago), a web page that explained 
how to get RealPlayer working under WinOS2. I believe it was 
referenced at:

http://www.gt-online.com/~bri/

I never did find anything that was worth listening to, and I notice 
that neither program still works. I am not even going to bother trying
to get them working again.

Hope this helps...
******************************
From the PC of Doug Bissett
doug.bissett at attglobal.net
The " at " must be changed to "@"
******************************

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From: sfactual@erols.com                                14-Dec-99 16:01:03
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Pain in the ass

From: Jon Schuck <sfactual@erols.com>

RealPlayer 5.0 works fine.  Make sure you install in the 16-bit plugins
directory.  Problem is, none of the good stuff works in 5.  Everyone I want
to hear or see is in G2 or v7.

Dale Winters wrote:

> Sorry for the language but I am up against it after trying to get
> realplayer5.0 working under warp4.
> Hasn't anybody written an os/2 specific program that will open ra,rm,ram
> type files and play them.
>     It would seem by now its time for  somebody,who can program, to be
> tired of jumping thru hoops and come up with an os/2 program to handle
> this.
> PPLLLLEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: raphaelt@netnews.worldnet.att.net                 14-Dec-99 15:39:16
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: raphaelt@netnews.worldnet.att.net (Raphael Tennenbaum)

mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin) wrote:

shnip

>AN7LBIE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 R1.5
>- List Price:$472.00 - Our Price:$402.30
>
>AN6C7IE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 v1.5 (Upgrade)
>- List Price:$173.00 - Our Price:$152.60
>
>Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...
>
>Hope this helps,
>Mark Mellin
>

It sure does seem like a lot.  If it's a bugfix, then it's
simply proof that they've charged for two others (ok, one
was nominal) that did little good -- for eg, all the people
with dire Approach problems.

Where are the tools to synch with Palm devices?  The only
new thing I see sounds like very vague lipservice to some
WSOD features, which if past performance is any indication,
will be proved an empty promise as well. 

I'm such a sick **** I might actually pay $160 to get
typgraphical quotes and the goddamned disappearing-cursor-
after-Organizer exit fixed.  But I've got to figure that's
money I won't be spending.  Would love to be proved wrong.

-- 
Ray Tennenbaum        '99 YZF-R6
readme@ http://www.ray-field.com

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From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      14-Dec-99 21:32:08
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:13:13 -0800, Glenn Davies
<glend@nospam.direct.ca> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:25:35 GMT, siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E.
>Barry Bruyea) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:30:25 -0500, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Steven C. Britton" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Magnus wrote:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > If this occurs, then Bill Gates will make out like a bandit. He would
>>>> > probably triple his wealth because he would own a good deal of the
>>>> > smaller M$ pieces. This is precisely what happened to Rockafeller when
>>>> > Standard Oil was broken up 100 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> It's a sad state of affairs in the world when someone is called a theif
and
>>>> a bandit for being good at marketing a product.
>>>
>>>Even if these 100+ year old laws are unfair, it's a fool who cannot work
around
>>>them.  Alas, MS has become the poster child for the malcontents.
>>
>>
>>And to show that in many ways the Sherman Anti-Trust act was a paper
>>tiger, Rockefeller, one way or the other, continued to 'control' all
>>of the various components of Standard Oil.  But, it sure looked good
>>to the general public, but was meaningless in the end.
>>>
>
>If the goal was to relieve Rockefeller from control of Standard Oil's
>assets than that might be correct but if the goal to was to open
>competition in different fields then that conclusion isn't
>supportable. 

That depends on what you call competition. Standard and it's latter
components were still the biggest single player in the oil business in
the U.S. and as Rockefeller also controlled most of the oil
transportation facilities, he, and Standard were in no less of a
position after than before the breakup.  When are the naive going to
realize that breakups of companies are to salve the great unwashed,
not to curtail business. 

EBB

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          14-Dec-99 22:03:04
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:32:17, siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry 
Bruyea) wrote:

> 
> That depends on what you call competition. Standard and it's latter
> components were still the biggest single player in the oil business in
> the U.S. and as Rockefeller also controlled most of the oil
> transportation facilities, he, and Standard were in no less of a
> position after than before the breakup.  When are the naive going to
> realize that breakups of companies are to salve the great unwashed,
> not to curtail business. 

The trouble is, the next step beyond that in getting things back into 
proportion is to Nationalize them, as normally happens after a good 
revolution. 

Must be why The Great Unwashed become actual revolutionaries, while 
the Children of The Peerage settle for merely becoming lawyers.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: larso@commodore.                                  14-Dec-99 22:03:29
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw Steven C. Britton write:
> Ed Letourneau foamed:
> 
> > Like your reply here? Now you're telling us that the news media in Canada
> > must also be lying and led by thugs, since there isn't anything to back up
> > your claims.
> 
> The events during the Safeway strike were reported on 630 CHED.  I heard the
> report myself.

I was the report myself.

> > A political campaign and the rights of free people have been violated
> > (according to you), and you end by telling us that its someone elses fault
> > that it didn't make it into the history pages!
> 
> You obviously can't read newspapers.  The Ontario Election was a massive
> union goon battleground.

Famed actress Sarah Polley being injured in such.



-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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From: mcbrides@erols.com                                14-Dec-99 17:25:11
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)

In article
<xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fmpn650.pminews@news.pacbell.net>,
"Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> wrote:
>Serenity Systems markets a Managed Client(r) product which provides
>significant benefits to business users. We selected OS/2 as our
>desktop client for many reasons and one is the broad range of
>application support provided.
>
>However, we continue to receive requests to support Win32
>applications. Often this request is in addition to the requirement to
>run Presentation Manager or WorkPlace Shell applications, which are
>frequently Line of Business Applications.
>
>After reviewing the product solutions available, we determined that
>the best response to this requirement would be a hardware
>modification to the workstation, enabling the system to support a
>host operating system and guest operating system. Release 1 of the
>product is anticipated to support an OS/2 host and a Windows guest.
>The OS/2 support includes WorkSpace on Demand and OS/2 V4 (Merlin)
>with support for a Managed Client, run either as a diskless RPL
>client or as a traditional "fat" client.
>
>We have put an overview of this project on our web site
>(http://www.Serenity-Systems.com/), with an associated questionnaire
>which will help us through our product planning. Accessing the
>document requires that you have a valid log-on for the site. You can
>request a log on from Info@Serenity-Systems.com. Once you log on to
>the site, click on the Project Concorde image and, if it is
>appropriate, complete the questionnaire.
>
>

Hi Kim,

This is a great idea. Have you done any projections on "in the home" cost of
implementing Concorde? As I see it, it looks a bit expensive.


--

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\

|                From the Warp Server for eBusiness desktop of:              
|
|                               Jerome D. McBride                            
|
|                              mcbrides@erols.com                            
|
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/


*******************************************************************************

*                                   NetRexx                                  
*
*                           The onramp to the Internet                       
*
*                       http://www2.hursley.ibm.com/netrexx                  
*
*******************************************************************************


*******************************************************************************

*                                  OS/2 ????                                 
*
*                              YOU AREN'T ALONE!                             
*
*               http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.html         
*
*******************************************************************************


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From: rcpj@panix.com                                    14-Dec-99 21:47:09
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)

Adrian Gschwend <nospam_ktk@netlabs.org> writes:
> On 11 Dec 1999 16:15:46 GMT, Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> >Is there an OS/2 MySQL server? I found some hints of MSQL, but that won't
> >do as I need to develop a database that will eventually run on MySQL on
> >a Unix platform.
> 
> There is, it works very well on my webserver. Go to hobbes.nmsu.edu and
> search for MySQL.

Thanks, I got it. Now, how do I make it talk to my web server? 

I have Apache/1.3.9 (OS/2) PHP/3.0.12 working fine on the loopback
interface. I can write PHP scripts that query successfully a MySQL 
server on another host.

I have mysql2-3.22.26a installed, and I can create a database using
mysqladmin from the command line.

Now, how do I tell Apache what to do to talk to MySQL? I assume it's
something in httpd.conf but I don't see anything relating to MySQL.

Pierre
-- 
Pierre Jelenc                  | www.mp3.com/cucumbers  www.mp3.com/pawnshop
                               | www.cdbaby.com/buy/rawkinder.htm
The New York City Beer Guide   | Home Office Records http://www.web-ho.com
   http://www.nycbeer.org      | www.mp3.com/jeniferjackson

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From: ptuck@jpeace.freeserve.co.uk                      14-Dec-99 22:51:18
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:13
Subj: Re: Xcopy with re-start options

From: "Phil Tuck" <ptuck@jpeace.freeserve.co.uk>

John Poltorak wrote in message <384fb842.0@katana.legend.co.uk>...
>Has anyone ever come across a utility which is equivalent to XCOPY but
>with option to do a re-start from a point of failure?
>
>ie something akin to wget -c -r for ftping.
>
>--
>John
>
>

Hi John, long time no see!

I'll write you one if you can't find anything suitable.  Just let me know
which
operating system (OS/2, Windows NT or both) and give me a spec.

Regards,

Phil Tuck.


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From: chris@os2ezine.com                                14-Dec-99 23:01:22
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:13
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: chris@os2ezine.com (Chris Wenham)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:47:19, rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:

> 
> Now, how do I tell Apache what to do to talk to MySQL? I assume it's
> something in httpd.conf but I don't see anything relating to MySQL.

 You don't. 

 Apache doesn't talk to MySQL under OS/2, you need to use a CGI 
package such as WWW-MySQL (can be found on Hobbes), or the RexxSQL 
library (http://www.lightlink.com/hessling/).

 Getting PHP to work in Apache on OS/2 is a pain in the ass, and I 
think the only way to be satisfied will be to port PHP and compile it 
into Apache yourself. There are a number of pre-compiled Apache 
servers with PHP support on Hobbes, but they have the following 
serious problems:

 They are badly out of synch with the current official OS/2 port of 
Apache.
 They are poorly documented.
 I have yet to find one that is compiled to work with MySQL. They only
work with mSQL.

 I have never been able to use PHP, Apache and MySQL together on an 
OS/2 machine at all. Even mod_perl seems to be nonexistant on OS/2, 
which is really tough.

 I've had reasonable success with the WWW-MySQL program. It's a 
preprocessor that supports a very simplified scripting language. You 
can just about do looping and conditional statements in it, so you 
might find yourself putting the bulk of your logic into the SQL 
queries whenever you can get away with it.

 Using RexxSQL is my second choice, but only because I can't afford 
the overhead Rexx will add to each request. If your server is not 
going to experience heavy traffic then writing your scripts in Rexx 
with RexxSQL as your interface is the best way to go.

Regards,

Chris Wenham - editor@os2ezine.com
The views expressed are mine.

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From: isaacl@jazz.ece.ubc.ca                            14-Dec-99 22:12:11
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:13
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: isaacl@jazz.ece.ubc.ca (e-frog)

Rob Burton (rhb@accessv.com) wrote:
: It doesn't look like more than a Y2K fix, to me. Maybe we should all ask Tim
: S. where he got his information . . .

: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:49:19 GMT, Mark Mellin wrote:

:   
:   Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...
:   

Yeah, but that's what they said about the v1.1 upgrade, but if you called
Lotus, they let you have it for, I think it was $20 plus shipping. Maybe
it'll be the same this time around too.

But keep in mind that 1-2-3 appears to be upgraded to be on-par with
Smartsuite Millenium. The other components probably have more minor
tweaks. We're essentially paying same upgrade price as Windows users, for
a slightly lesser upgrade. That's pretty much what I've come to expect.
(Doesn't mean I'm happy with it...but oh well)


Isaac

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From: crh@physics.purdue.edu                            14-Dec-99 22:42:05
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 19:59:13
Subj: Re: ExaByte 8200 & tar

From: crh@physics.purdue.edu (Charles Hunter)

jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak) writes:

>Has anyone managed to use tar (part of GTAK258) with an ExaByte 8200
>tape drive?

I've used it fine for a long time on a 8100. I was even able to use
the "recommended" driver, which from my ( probably bad) memory was the ASPI
driver?

I couldn't ever use compression on it though. The archives would be corrupted
when I'd try to restore.


Charles

--
Charles R. Hunter                                        
Computer Systems Engineer        Physics Computer Network
Purdue University                crh@physics.purdue.edu

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From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au                    14-Dec-99 23:27:29
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 21:14:07
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)

Jason Bowen <bowenjm@rintintin.colorado.edu> wrote:
>In article <38565D18.2B9B@attglobal.net>,  <skrise@attglobal.net> wrote:
>>Jason Bowen wrote:
>>> Tim Martin  <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com> wrote:
>>>>Jason Bowen wrote:
>><mean spirited back and forth snipped>
>>
>>FOR FUCK'S SAKE, BOYS!!
>>
>>You are both acting in a completely irresponsible manner.
>>If you all can't just get along at least have the decency
>>to not waste bandwidth with your puerile pissing contests.
>>
>>The both of you are ruining this newsgroup for the benefit
>>of your own personal vendettas and making extremely difficult
>>for those of us who actually have questions to ask about OS/2.
>>
>>Please, stop it now.
>
>It's up to you Tim, feel like acknowledging publicly that I didn't
>crack or attempt to crack Warp City?

That sounds like an admission that they're not going to stop.

  *plonk*

-- 
Peter Moylan                                         peter@ee.newcastle.edu.au
See http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au for OS/2 information and software

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From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au                    14-Dec-99 23:25:13
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 21:14:08
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan)

Raphael Tennenbaum <raphaelt@netnews.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>peter@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) wrote:
>
>>Thomas Kellerer <Thomas.Kellerer@tps-labs.com> wrote:
>>>Here is the poor mans solution:
>>>
>>>Do not maximize the command window. 
>>>Call mode <columns>,<rows> (e.g. mode 80,200)
>>>
>>>If the window is not maximized you will get a scrollbar for the command
>>>window. 
>>
>>For a superior solution, run a command shell from inside EPM.
>>(EPM comes configured to do this with a one-button click, i.e. you
>>can do it even if you don't understand the advanced features of EPM.)
>>This is what I do whenever I want a complete record of the 
>>command-line session.
>
>Never knew this before this thread.  Is there a command-line
>parameter that'll start EPM with this shell?

I'd never thought about this possibility before, but a search through
the on-line help (of which EPM has a lot) finally came up with the
answer:
        epm 'shell'

I'm glad you asked; I've learnt something new today.  I've just added
this to my PC/2 menu.  Anyone not using PC/2 should probably
consider adding it to their Command Prompts folder.

-- 
Peter Moylan                                         peter@ee.newcastle.edu.au
See http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au for OS/2 information and software

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From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               14-Dec-99 16:08:22
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 21:14:08
Subj: Re: Tim Martin, Jason Bowen Read This

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Thanks Gene.  Honestly, I dread each and every time I
respond to this guy.  It is just very hard to come into these
newsgroups (as an OS/2 web master) and see such viscous
attacks aimed at me.  If I offer a valuable post to other OS/2
users this guy steps forward and just rips me apart.  His
attack will have nothing to do with my information, it will just
be a "god I hate this Tim Martin guy" attack.  (Marty and
Steven Hunter do the same thing.)  When he keeps repeating
it over and over it takes on a life of its own.  Other detractors
and OS/2 haters fan the fires by quoting or supporting him.
Two months down the road and what is total fabrication
today suddenly takes on a pseudo-factual life.

And that's what he is hoping for.  Like Microsoft, just repeat
it over and over and over and soon everyone will believe it
is fact.  He knows he can't push me out of these newsgroups
(God knows he's tried)  but he hopes to push those who
subscribe to my service away.  The idea being:  destroy
Tim's ability to earn support for his OS/2 web site and he will
eventually be forced to shut down the OS2/ web site.  That's
the game he plays.  Steven C. Den Beste did the same thing.
And that's what their ultimate goal is: to destroy OS/2.  A
brick here, a brick there, an OS/2 web site here and there.

Take this into account:  the guy doesn't use OS/2 yet he
lives in this OS/2 newsgroup for no other purpose but to
attack an OS/2 web master.  Why?  Why does he even give
a flying fig in the first place?  Its that obsessive hate for OS/2
and those who use/support it.

You run a business.  Imagine being stalked each and every
time you stepped out into public.  Screamed at by some
fanatic who followed your every move and demeaned your
business.  You'd seriously want to defend yourself and
your work.  You get on the freeway and there he is behind
you, slamming your bumper, screaming his obscene
statements.  That's exactly how it feels.

I'll do my best to ignore him.  He knows if he starts sending
private messages I'll complain to his edu administrator
immediately - and they know at that point he's stepped over
the .edu 'Net policy line.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City (http://warpcity.com)
"Y2K Discounts for 1999 Members Closes 12/15!"




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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        15-Dec-99 00:49:22
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 21:14:08
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <EsqV4oXf0naE092yn@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
raphaelt@netnews.worldnet.att.net (Raphael Tennenbaum) writes:
>mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin) wrote:
>
>shnip
>
>>AN7LBIE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 R1.5
>>- List Price:$472.00 - Our Price:$402.30
>>
>>AN6C7IE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 v1.5 (Upgrade)
>>- List Price:$173.00 - Our Price:$152.60
>>
>>Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...
>>
>>Hope this helps,
>>Mark Mellin
>>
>
>It sure does seem like a lot.  If it's a bugfix, then it's
>simply proof that they've charged for two others (ok, one
>was nominal) that did little good -- for eg, all the people
>with dire Approach problems.
>
>Where are the tools to synch with Palm devices? 

If it included an Organizer-Palm Syncher I would be very temtped, but since it
doesn't, I can't see much point in getting it... 

> The only
>new thing I see sounds like very vague lipservice to some
>WSOD features, which if past performance is any indication,
>will be proved an empty promise as well. 
>
>I'm such a sick **** I might actually pay $160 to get
>typgraphical quotes and the goddamned disappearing-cursor-
>after-Organizer exit fixed.  But I've got to figure that's
>money I won't be spending.  Would love to be proved wrong.
>
>-- 
>Ray Tennenbaum        '99 YZF-R6
>readme@ http://www.ray-field.com

--
John

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From: tiemannj@gmx.de                                   15-Dec-99 01:25:15
  To: All                                               14-Dec-99 21:14:08
Subj: EPM commandshell enhancer 

From: tiemannj@gmx.de (Joerg Tiemann)

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 04:45:48 GMT reedjd@bitsmart.com wrote:
> Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
> command line interface?

  As some already have pointed out the EPM command_shell window is one
way to accomplish that. Now that I've seen that I'm not the only user 
who uses it I think it's time to publish a little package of E macros 
and stuff to make the work with this CLI somewhat more comfortable.

This includes:

 - a highlighting scheme for "_command_shell_n"
 - *filename completion* for the EPM Shell (in E)
 - directory name completion (basically just the same)
 - faster directory change command (in Rexx)
 - jump to directory command (in Rexx)
 - command history dialog
   (shameless rip off of the "write to shell" edit and 
   "write to shell" list dialogs. Nothing added, but
   change of the order of those dialogs (now the list is
   called 'history' and comes first))
 - a shell toolbar with some tiny toolbar buttons
 - some hotkeys (jump to previous/next prompt; send y(es)/n(o) to 
   cmd.exe)
 - very spartanic documentation. ;-)

  Those stuff works reasonably stable here (Warp4, EPM 6.03 with german
FP9 EPM dlls and exe), but is not tested on other systems and thus has
the status of VBB (very bloody beta). I would be glad if some of you
would volunteer to check it out. It would be necessary for you to have
EPM 6.3b and the etpm macro compiler and be familiar with it. Just 
send a mail to me and I will mail you an archive (ZIP, ~40 kB) which 
contains all the stuff and a little documentation.

  If someone wants just the highlighting scheme that's ok with me, but
other than that I will not distribute single parts of the package.

  Of course all the stuff is free and always will be.

	HAND, Joerg
-- 
>Is there a web page or ftp site that harbors a current binary for Emacs
>for OS/2?
Dunno. Try a search on "sado-masochism".
 -- William B. Hacker, III in c.o.o.apps

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From: josco@sea.monterey.edu                            14-Dec-99 17:36:14
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 03:46:00
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: josco <josco@sea.monterey.edu>

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, E. Barry Bruyea wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:13:13 -0800, Glenn Davies
> <glend@nospam.direct.ca> wrote:

> >If the goal was to relieve Rockefeller from control of Standard Oil's
> >assets than that might be correct but if the goal to was to open
> >competition in different fields then that conclusion isn't
> >supportable. 
> 
> That depends on what you call competition. 

What do the historians say?  We should be able to track your opinion in a
standard text book on economic history of the US.  Did Rockefeller control
or participate in a Trust after Standard Oil was busted up?

You do understand what a Trust is?  If you say he maintain his monopoly
power after Standard oil was busted up then he ran a Trust.  


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From: josco@ibm.net                                     14-Dec-99 20:46:00
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 03:46:01
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Joseph <josco@ibm.net>


"Steven C. Britton" wrote:

> If I were Bill, I'd retire; take my money, and move to the Cayman Islands
> and live out the rest of my life in tax-free comfort; raising my middle
> finger to the collective lunacy of the jealous left wing.

Microsoft is one of the most progressively liberal companies in the US.  I
like
them for that position.

Defending MS against left wingers?  Who!?! I never thought of SUN's Scott
McNealy as a liberal let alone a jealous left winger.  I bet he'd laugh at
that
slurr being his father was a GM auto exec.  MS's enemies are conservative
corporations in say Utah and companies owned by billionaires like Larry
Ellison
and Soctt McNealy.
It's all about money and power between wealthy and powerful people.

So Steven - are you really that knee jerk and dense?  Larry Ellison is a
jealous
left winger?

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From: abeagley@optonline.net                            15-Dec-99 03:47:03
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 03:46:01
Subj: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Alan Beagley <abeagley@optonline.net>

Is there a program one can use to compare what is on a CD-ROM (CD-R or
CD-RW) with the files on a source CD-ROM or hard disk?

At least for the first few "burns" I would like to check whether the
newly created disk contains what it is supposed to contain.

Alan

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From: sma.spam-not@rtd.com                              15-Dec-99 03:22:16
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 03:46:01
Subj: Re: %TEMP% 

From: James Moe <sma.spam-not@rtd.com>


Buddy Donnelly wrote:
> 
> [ ... ]
>
> Or, more sleekly:
> SET BUDTEMP=C:\TEMP
> SET TEMP=%BUDTEMP%
> SET TMP=%TEMP%
> which lets me change my %BUDTEMP% variable on the fly and the other
> two will follow along. And then check your CONFIG.SYS periodically to
> make sure program installs haven't screwed with this setup. Using
> CONFIGSORT helps a lot in locating multiple variable assignments, by
> the way.
> 
  Unless something has changed since warp 4 fp 5 (or so), I have not
seen %WHATEVER% work in CONFIG.SYS; there was no text replacment.
  I assume that the above works for you?


-- 

sma at rtd dot com
Remove ".spam-not" for email

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From: mgreene@exis.net                                  14-Dec-99 22:53:11
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 03:46:01
Subj: Warp Server Advanced - Preview Disk

From: "Michael K Greene" <mgreene@exis.net>

I installed Warp Server 4 Advanced on an old 486-100, it is a preview version
I received from IBM years ago. I never used it before and I realize it is
only good for 60 days. If I play with the local security functions, in 60
days does it crap out and everything I have on it lost?

Yes, I know it is a preview version however running it next to my home
computer and doesn't quite make a production system. The only use I see I
will use it for - a cheap way to use my CDR to make OS/2 CDs. I can collect
my OS/2 files on the server and then boot to Win95 - burn the CD using Win95.



  
Michael K Greene <mgreene@exis.net>     |      OS/2 Warp / Linux / Win95-311



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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 09:14:12
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:46:01, Joseph <josco@ibm.net> wrote:
> 
> Microsoft is one of the most progressively liberal companies in the US.  I
like
> them for that position.

??? Are we talking about Micro$oft Corporation in Redmond Washington? 
Then read this piece, from their own hometown, normally home-cookin' 
Seattle Times:

	http://www.seattletimes.com/extra/browse/html97/whit_102097.html

"Rep. Rick White, R-Bainbridge Island,..., whose district encompasses 
Microsoft's Redmond                             headquarters, has 
received more contributions from Microsoft employees and 
political-action committees than any other member of Congress in the 
past 2 1/2 years, according to a review of Federal Election Commission
records by the Center for Responsive Politics."

White is known in Congress primarily for having authored a securities 
litigation bill that would essentially prevent stockholders and 
institutional investment managers, such as state pension funds, from 
going to court to sue management for fraudulent mis-management. 

That doesn't sound very progressive to anybody, except potential 
miscreants of the corporate management ilk. And in any case, massive 
and unprincipaled concentration of Wealth is the opposite of "liberal"
social views.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: letoured@nospam.net                               15-Dec-99 04:46:26
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

>> Your first error is the assumption that I would want to work for an
>> asshole.

>Nobody is forcing you to.
>If you don't like your boss, quit.


>> Your second error is assuming that all your contradictory utterances have
>passed unnoticed.
>I haven't said anything contradictory.

>> -- I especially liked the one about how your workers would never want to
>> unionize because you would treat them so well, and then hours later in
>> another message you said that if someone is starving the only remedy
>> should be handouts from passers-by and charity.

>There's nothing contradictory in that.  Only an idiot would even try to
>tie those two together.

Lets see. You tell us that you identify and understand your workers so
well that that they would think of unionizing. But you so little empathy
for all others that you would let them starve unless some passer-by came
to their aid. But there is something wrong fact that they are tied
together. 

I think I know how to clear this up. Please tell us which one of you made
which statement, or did you just run out of your medication?


>> I do wish you would do some _real work and give us the URLs to document
>> your claims.
>I do _real_ work:  I'm not in a union.

Ah, but its a simple thing to do. You said so yourself in another message
along with I'm too dumb to do it.  Besides its your chance to prove that
you're not lier. CEOs try to keep that image crystal clear, but you knew
that and its only your unending trust in the goodness of mankind that has
kept you from showing off. Right.

_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jknott@ibm.net                                    15-Dec-99 06:01:08
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: jknott@ibm.net (James Knott)

In article <837hgj$6so$1@news.hawaii.edu>,
tholenantispam@hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) wrote:
>Jim Frost writes:
>
>> So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
>> distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
>
>I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
>is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
>That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.
>

It's called "Desktop on Call".  There are OS/2, Linux and even Windows
versions of it.  It does work, but is *SLOW*, even when running 
Netscape on a Pentium 150 on a 16 Mb token ring lan, with both 
computers on the same desk.  It's really strange to see the desktop 
change almost instantly on the remote system and watch the same info 
slowly appear on the local computer.


-- 
E-mail jknott@ca.ibm.com
_________________________________________________________________________
The above opinions are my own and not those of ISM Corp., a subsidiary of
IBM Canada Ltd.

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        15-Dec-99 09:38:26
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <38570D8A.2817DBB9@optonline.net>, Alan Beagley <abeagley@optonline.net>
writes:
>Is there a program one can use to compare what is on a CD-ROM (CD-R or
>CD-RW) with the files on a source CD-ROM or hard disk?

The best solution I have come across for comparing directories recursively is
GNU DIFF - it should be on Hobbes and LEO.

diff -q -r  path1 path2

..reports any differences between files in path1 and path2 or does nothing
(RC = 0) when everything matches.

>At least for the first few "burns" I would like to check whether the
>newly created disk contains what it is supposed to contain.
>
>Alan

--
John

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From: andreas.linde@os2.org                             15-Dec-99 10:39:09
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org>

hi

>Thanks, I got it. Now, how do I make it talk to my web server? 
>
>I have Apache/1.3.9 (OS/2) PHP/3.0.12 working fine on the loopback
>interface. I can write PHP scripts that query successfully a MySQL 
>server on another host.
>
>I have mysql2-3.22.26a installed, and I can create a database using
>mysqladmin from the command line.
>
>Now, how do I tell Apache what to do to talk to MySQL? I assume it's
>something in httpd.conf but I don't see anything relating to MySQL.

Go to http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/

there you find a very good apache 1.3.9 (with ssl) and php/3.0.12 included.
this works VERY good. you don't need to recompile anything.

the problem is you mysql version. to use this new version the php-module
has be to recompiled. or you have to wait for a new version from the
location mentioned.

ciao

 andy

+------------------------------------------------------------------+
  www.OS2.org
  Webmaster/-designer 
  Andreas Linde
  email: andreas.linde@os2.org
  irc-nick: kerni
+------------------------------------------------------------------+



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From: andreas.linde@os2.org                             15-Dec-99 10:43:10
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org>

hi

> Getting PHP to work in Apache on OS/2 is a pain in the ass, and I 
>think the only way to be satisfied will be to port PHP and compile it 
>into Apache yourself. There are a number of pre-compiled Apache 
>servers with PHP support on Hobbes, but they have the following 
>serious problems:

that's completely wrong. I don't know what you did, but mysql, php and
apache are running VERY fine out of the box with apache 1.3.9
at Netlabs.org and OS2.org !!!
the version from http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/ is the best I know of.
and the most actual version too

> They are badly out of synch with the current official OS/2 port of 
>Apache.

also wrong. take a look at the mentioned url, and you'll find even a 
developer version of apache 2.0. so what is out of sync !?

> They are poorly documented.

I don't think so. the documentation on every single apache version on
every plattform is the same. so you say apache documentaion is poor
everywhere ?

> I have yet to find one that is compiled to work with MySQL. They only
>work with mSQL.
take a look at the mentioned url

> I have never been able to use PHP, Apache and MySQL together on an 
>OS/2 machine at all. Even mod_perl seems to be nonexistant on OS/2, 
>which is really tough.
same as above.

Regards,

 andreas linde

+------------------------------------------------------------------+
  www.OS2.org
  Webmaster/-designer 
  Andreas Linde
  email: andreas.linde@os2.org
  irc-nick: kerni
+------------------------------------------------------------------+



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From: steint@stud.ntnu.no                               15-Dec-99 10:45:18
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Strange directory created at boot drive

From: "Stein L. Tomassen" <steint@stud.ntnu.no>

Hi,

can anyone explain why a directory named c:\ is created at
my boot drive? I have never seen this directory before. If I delete it it
will be created at the next boot.

Stein


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From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      15-Dec-99 12:06:25
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:03:08 GMT, donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy
Donnelly) wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:32:17, siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry 
>Bruyea) wrote:
>
>> 
>> That depends on what you call competition. Standard and it's latter
>> components were still the biggest single player in the oil business in
>> the U.S. and as Rockefeller also controlled most of the oil
>> transportation facilities, he, and Standard were in no less of a
>> position after than before the breakup.  When are the naive going to
>> realize that breakups of companies are to salve the great unwashed,
>> not to curtail business. 
>
>The trouble is, the next step beyond that in getting things back into 
>proportion is to Nationalize them, as normally happens after a good 
>revolution. 
>
>Must be why The Great Unwashed become actual revolutionaries, while 
>the Children of The Peerage settle for merely becoming lawyers.


Good point.  Nationalization is a great way to destroy any business,
unless, of course, the nationalized industry has no competition which
puts you right back were you started. That's the problem with
socialist economics; it's circularity.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Good luck,
>
>Buddy
>
>Buddy Donnelly
>donnelly@tampabay.rr.com
>
>

EBB

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From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      15-Dec-99 12:08:04
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:36:29 -0800, josco <josco@sea.monterey.edu>
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, E. Barry Bruyea wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:13:13 -0800, Glenn Davies
>> <glend@nospam.direct.ca> wrote:
>
>> >If the goal was to relieve Rockefeller from control of Standard Oil's
>> >assets than that might be correct but if the goal to was to open
>> >competition in different fields then that conclusion isn't
>> >supportable. 
>> 
>> That depends on what you call competition. 
>
>What do the historians say?  We should be able to track your opinion in a
>standard text book on economic history of the US.  Did Rockefeller control
>or participate in a Trust after Standard Oil was busted up?
>
>You do understand what a Trust is?  If you say he maintain his monopoly
>power after Standard oil was busted up then he ran a Trust.  

Gee Whiz, Ya think?
>
>

EBB

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From: ivan@protein.bio.msu.su                           15-Dec-99 14:21:28
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Ivan Adzhubei" <ivan@protein.bio.msu.su>

In <QvZVpH4Tn21Y-pn2-zZWthBNi9g0p@blimey.netmonger.net>, on 12/14/99 
   at 11:01 PM, chris@os2ezine.com (Chris Wenham) said:

>> Now, how do I tell Apache what to do to talk to MySQL? I assume it's
>> something in httpd.conf but I don't see anything relating to MySQL.

> You don't. 

> Apache doesn't talk to MySQL under OS/2, you need to use a CGI  package
>such as WWW-MySQL (can be found on Hobbes), or the RexxSQL  library
>(http://www.lightlink.com/hessling/).

The supported way of talking to SQL database engines via Perl/CGI is by
using DBI/DBD modules. You can read more about DBI interface at

http://www.perl.com/pub/1999/10/DBI.html

Apart of working Perl for OS/2 installation, you will need to download and
install DBI and DBD::mysql modules (available at CPAN or via links at
MySQL homepage). This can be a bit tricky on OS/2, you need to install
complete EMX/GNU development package for OS/2 first, including gcc
compiler/tools, GNU file and system utils, GNU make, etc. You will also
need to read lots of documentation about EMX development and porting of
*nix like apps on OS/2. After you'll be done with this however, the rest
is relatively simple. I have all of the above working under OS/2 here.

> Getting PHP to work in Apache on OS/2 is a pain in the ass, and I  think
>the only way to be satisfied will be to port PHP and compile it  into
>Apache yourself. There are a number of pre-compiled Apache  servers with
>PHP support on Hobbes, but they have the following  serious problems:

> They are badly out of synch with the current official OS/2 port of 
>Apache.
> They are poorly documented.
> I have yet to find one that is compiled to work with MySQL. They only
>work with mSQL.

There is at least one working version of Apache with PHP support, used in
production environment here, see:

http://www.os2.spb.ru/software/internet/apache/

This site (Russian Underground/2 - Unofficial OS/2 Support in Russia) used
to run on OS/2 MySQL/Apache/PHP3 but was resently migrated to OS/2
Java/JServ (Apache). Java is _much_ more flexible and sophisticated
approach to cleint-server solutions than CGI in general, including
database access.

> I have never been able to use PHP, Apache and MySQL together on an  OS/2
>machine at all. Even mod_perl seems to be nonexistant on OS/2,  which is
>really tough.

Building of mod_perl is at the top of my ToDo list. The problem with all
Linux software porting to OS/2 is that it is upgraded so fast one can
hardly follow the track. Right now, I am awaiting for Apache 2.0 for OS/2
release, makes no sense building any extensions for already obsolete
versions 1.3.x, IMO.

> I've had reasonable success with the WWW-MySQL program. It's a 
>preprocessor that supports a very simplified scripting language. You  can
>just about do looping and conditional statements in it, so you  might
>find yourself putting the bulk of your logic into the SQL  queries
>whenever you can get away with it.

I could not recommend spending your time on obsolete and unsupported
technologies, like various database engine-specific scripts, unless you
need some really quick and dirty solution. Learn either
Perl/CGI.pm/DBI.pm/DBD programming or Java/JDBC/JServ instead. This will
take some time but pays off.

Cheers,
Ivan

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Ivan Adzhubei" <ivan@protein.bio.msu.su>
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: jstuyck@home.com                                  15-Dec-99 12:21:22
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Embellish Install Workaround

From: Jim Stuyck <jstuyck@home.com>

There's a missing file, EPFIPII.DLL, in the recently released free
copy of full-function Embellish (see Warpcast for details).  This prevents
installation of the program.

The workaround I used is this:

1)  Create a directory for installing, i.e. md e:\emblsh
2)  Change to that directory, i.e. cd emblsh
3)  Copy ALL parts of EPF from the \netscape\siutil directory,
     i.e. copy e:\netscape\siutil\epf*.*
4)  Unzip the Embellish distribution file, i.e. unzip e:\embos2.zip
5)  Install the program, i.e. install

By copying all parts of EPF all of the files are at the correct level.

After installation, and after rebooting, you can delete the epf*.* files
from the Embellish directory.

Jim Stuyck

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From: sorry@no_spam.de                                  15-Dec-99 12:15:16
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 10:26:21
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: Martin Heimes <sorry@no_spam.de>

Thomas Kellerer wrote:
> 
> Here is the poor mans solution:
> 
> Do not maximize the command window.
> Call mode <columns>,<rows> (e.g. mode 80,200)
> 
> If the window is not maximized you will get a scrollbar for the command
> window.
> If the command window is maximized, I think OS/2 tries to display the
> complete number of rows if the window will fit on the screen.
> 
> If you make <rows> big enough you have your buffer. There might be
> programs out there which do not behave correctly in this situation (I
> don't know if the Rexx stuff for lines and columns returns the visible
> ones or the actual ones)
> 
> But it's better than nothing
> 
maximum seems to be mode co80,105

go to the Command Prompt Folder, make a copy of OS/2 Window into the
same Folder and name it for example OS/2 Window scroll
open the properties of the new object
you have:

program:
*
parameters:
%

replace:

parameters:
/k mode co80,105%

close properties.


now some cosmetic:

press the shift key and dont release until I tell you
doubleclick the newly created object
it will come up in maximised window mode
click the upper right button to de-maximize
pull the window at its corners to resize properly
when it looks good release the shift key
close the object (now the parent folder of the object will be closed
too, dont know why).

end of cosmetic

have fun
-- 
Martin Heimes
correct this to reply via email
m.heimes at zv-irz dot de

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From: viewme18@hotmail.com                              15-Dec-99 00:33:28
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: PL <viewme18@hotmail.com>

On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:50:45 -0700, "Steven C. Britton"
<sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

>Kenn Sunley wrote:
>
>> Go ahead bust some unions - and while you're at it - get rid of medicare,
>...
>
>Sure!
>
>> old age pensions, ...
>
>Absolutely!
>
>> ... all pensions for that matter,
>
>People should be responsible for their own pensions.  If the company they
>work for wants to set up a group pension plan, that's fine too.  Government
>has no responsibility in the matter.

Totally agree. But is the employer willing to pay the extra wages to
me so that I could do that?
Not bloody likely!!
>
>> universal school educations ...
>
>Without a doubt!
>
>> all labour codes - including health and safety...
>
>Don't work for companies that don't keep responsible health and safety
>codes.  You don't need a union to uphold that.  If nobody works for such a
>company, they can't produce; and therefore they disappear.
Absolute bullshit. 
Take your head out of the sand. Alot of the young people don't even
know what the rules are. There are many companies that do not wish to
comply with even exsisting rules. So you have the union to ensure that
the company does follow the rules. Government does do anything until
after the infraction.

>
>... or, at least, only those willing to work in those conditions would work
>there, and the company wouldn't produce _good_ stuff, and they'd disappear.
>
>> ... minimum wage standards...
>
>Sure!  Minimum wage kills jobs.
What, trying to turn this country into another Mexico?
If we allow the business leaders to set some baseline for wages, all
of our wages would drop down to virtually nothing.
But that's what many businesses would like isn't it?
Oh and if it does kill jobs, those jobs aren't worth having aroung
anyhow!
>
>> human rights...
>
>Don't be stupid.
>
>The only human rights are (a) the right to life, (b) the right to liberty,
>and (c) the right to own and enjoy property.
>
>Any other "right" is a fictitious construct.
>
>> ... environmental laws...
>
>Sure!  If a company isn't being environmentally responsible, then people
>won't do business with them.
That maybe only after the company has been found out. Even then I
doubt it would change. We need some type of policing of this. There
are some companies who comply and are proud of it and others need a
good kick in the ass.
>
>> just cause dismissals ...
>
>Unions have nothing to do with that; it's a violation of one's right to
>liberty because the company, by not dismissing with just cause, is
>initiating force against the person they're canning.
You are totally wrong. Without a union how do you fight a wrongful
dismissal?
Alberta Labour?
Now thas a joke. They will not help.
Take them to court?
How many workers could afford that? Lawyers want money up front (Lots
of it) 

Having managed both union and non union locations. Union shops are by
far easier to manage. Ever fired a union worker? I have, when it
became nessesary due to lack of preformance. Follow the rules and it
is easy. And to boot no wrongful dismissal suite. 
So what are you afraid ?? Might have to pay higher wages? or benefits?
make the work place safer?

>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>What have YOU done to bust a union today?
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Work better: Work union-free.
>
>Steven C. Britton
>Calgary
>
>www.cadvision.com/sbritton
>
>

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From: rsteiner@visi.com                                 14-Dec-99 22:24:15
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:08
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner)

Here in comp.os.os2.misc, Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>
spake unto us, saying:

>Not even close.  GEM existed by then, as did Windows 2, and there were about
>half a dozen PC UNIXen with X11 support by then (I used three of them).  So
>not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
>distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.

Any OS/2 user running XFree86/2 could certainly claim this.  :-)

-- 
   -Rich Steiner  >>>--->  rsteiner@visi.com  >>>---> Bloomington, MN
     OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
      + VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
          Do I BELIEVE in the Bible?!  HELL man, I've SEEN one

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From: tholenantispam@hawaii.edu                         15-Dec-99 07:54:29
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:08
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: tholenantispam@hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)

Jim Frost writes:

> So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
> distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.

I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.

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From: rgehrig@primenet.com                              15-Dec-99 01:00:03
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:08
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Robert Gehrig" <rgehrig@primenet.com>

On 14 Dec 1999 21:47:19 GMT, Pierre Jelenc wrote:

<snip>

You can get the latest Apache and PHP from
http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/

You must set permissions in the MySQL table user in the MYSQL database.

Get the O'REILLY book MySQL & mSQL. It has much information about the
database.

It also has a few examples of interfacing apache and MySQL with PHP.

Also there is a book by Leon Atkinson called Core PHP programming that has a
lot of useful information about PHP.

There are also a couple more books obout PHP and MySQL coming out in the
first quarter of next year.

Search on Amazon.com for PHP

I am using PHP and Apache 1.3.9 and MySQL all on OS/2.

My MySQL Database resides on another machine from the one running the apache
web server with the PHP module.

Also you can get a JDBC interface for MySQL that works well with Sun's
Staroffice.

You can edit tables directly with Staroffice.

e-mail me direct at robert.gehrig@mail.gdbarri.com if you have any specific
questions.

Hope this helps.


Robert Gehrig
rgehrig@primenet.com

Brought to you by the letters O and S and the number 2



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From: waugh@wcc.govt.nz                                 15-Dec-99 20:12:09
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:08
Subj: Re: ExaByte 8200 & tar

From: "Kevin Waugh" <waugh@wcc.govt.nz>

I have used it on an EXB-8205 and it worked OK
I no longer have the 8205 (4mmDAT now) and cannot remember any details but I
did get it to work.

John Poltorak wrote in message <38565619.0@katana.legend.co.uk>...
>Has anyone managed to use tar (part of GTAK258) with an ExaByte 8200
>tape drive?
>
>--
>John


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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 08:50:21
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:08
Subj: Re: %TEMP% 

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 05:12:35, Jim Parker <jdparker@erols.com> wrote:

> James Moe wrote:
> 
> > Buddy Donnelly wrote:
> > >
> > > Or, more sleekly:
> > > SET BUDTEMP=C:\TEMP
> > > SET TEMP=%BUDTEMP%
> > > SET TMP=%TEMP%
> > > which lets me change my %BUDTEMP% variable on the fly and the other
> > > two will follow along. And then check your CONFIG.SYS periodically to
> > > make sure program installs haven't screwed with this setup. Using
> > > CONFIGSORT helps a lot in locating multiple variable assignments, by
> > > the way.
> > >
> >   Unless something has changed since warp 4 fp 5 (or so), I have not
> > seen %WHATEVER% work in CONFIG.SYS; there was no text replacment.
> >   I assume that the above works for you?
> 
> Hmmm. Sounds like something to experiment with. If %WHATVER% worked in
> config.sys, I would have expected that TEMP and TMP would have been set to
> watever was in BUDTEMP at the time the SET TEMP and SET TMP statements were
> processed. I would not expect that later changing BUDTEMP would have any
> impact on TEMP or TMP.
> 

Sorry, fans, but oh dumb me jacked up so far on angeldust I forgot I'm
using 4OS2 and evidently that handles the magic. CMD.EXE (for WSeB) 
doesn't do it at all. Sorry. (I should switch to using a keyless 
keyboard, get myself in less trouble.)


> BTW, what is CONFIGSORT?

Phil O'Malley's freeware utility that sorts CONFIG.SYS entries into a 
highly organized and easy-to-read (and change) format. Some people 
claim speed increases loading, I haven't noticed that and wouldn't 
even mind if it took longer to load, as long as I can read it and see 
what's happening. No website describes it, but here's a download link 
for the last version, v.2.2:

	ftp://ftp.uni-hamburg.de/pub/os/os2/cdrom/sysutil/cfgsrt22.zip
-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               15-Dec-99 08:25:08
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Kim Cheung wrote:
> >This is a great idea. Have you done any projections on "in the home" cost
of
> >implementing Concorde? As I see it, it looks a bit expensive.
> 
> "Expensive" is always a relative term - of course.
> 
> The "in the home" cost will be determined purely by the qty produced and
> that's why we wanted to get some sense of that using a survey.    I would
say
> you shouldn't expect it to be less than a "few" hundred dollars.

Keeping in mind that I wasn't able to find any information at all on Concorde
looking at Serenity Systems' website:

If the cost is going to be in the, say, $300 range one wonders why you
wouldn't just buy a whole other machine to run Windows.  It's not like it'd
cost a lot more (or, probably, any more at all once you got done buying
Windows and the basic application suite retail versus getting it bundled).

Or, more generally: What's the point of an expensive software solution when
hardware is so cheap?

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               15-Dec-99 08:02:06
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Dave Tholen wrote:
> 
> Jim Frost writes:
> 
> > So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
> > distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
> 
> I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
> is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
> That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.

I stand corrected.

In any case the claim that OS/2 1.1 was the first GUI-equipped OS for the PC
was dead wrong.

jim

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           15-Dec-99 10:00:15
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3856b68e.11700064@news1.sympatico.ca>, on 12/14/99 at 09:32 PM,
   siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) said:


> That depends on what you call competition. Standard and it's latter
> components were still the biggest single player in the oil business in
> the U.S. and as Rockefeller also controlled most of the oil
> transportation facilities, he, and Standard were in no less of a
> position after than before the breakup.  When are the naive going to
> realize that breakups of companies are to salve the great unwashed, not
> to curtail business. 

What you said about Standard Oil has validity to a point. After the facts
became known, changes were made to the anti-trust laws which forced real
competition. Also, Rockefeller never really controlled any railroads. They
were controlled by friends of his and that control was destroyed both by
anti-trust and the takeover of the railroads during WW I by the
government.

The breakup of AT&T is a much better example. The public certainly did
benefit with scads of competitors offering various long distance plans. My
cost per minute for long distance has gone down more than 80% in terms of
constant dollars from the pre breakup days.

One of the great errors made when comparing prices is using current
dollars. One must make comparisons in terms of constant dollars, i.e.
adjust for inflation between current and the past date. Take, for example,
unleaded regular gasoline. In 1973, the price went to about 70 cents in
1973 dollars per gallon after the oil crisis. Today it costs about $1.20
per gallon here in NJ, a little more in Penna. To some, that is a huge
increase. In reality, it is a DECREASE. $0.70 adjusted for inflation is
equivalent to approximately $2.10 in today's dollars.

The lowest price I ever paid for gasoline was 22 cents a gallon in 1957.
That is eqivalent to approximately $1.25 today. It took 10 gallons in 1957
to go 100 miles in an un-air conditioned car with no power steering, no
power brakes, etc. Today, less money takes me 250 miles in air conditioned
comfort with power everything.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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From: sorry@no_spam.de                                  15-Dec-99 15:49:13
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: Martin Heimes <sorry@no_spam.de>

Martin Heimes wrote:
> maximum seems to be mode co80,105
Sorry, mistake, it is mode co80,102 for 80 column display.
-- 
Martin Heimes
correct this to reply via email
m.heimes at zv-irz dot de

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From: abeagley@optonline.net                            15-Dec-99 15:38:24
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Alan Beagley <abeagley@optonline.net>

Unless I am missing something, COMP does not seem to be able to compare
the files in subdirectories, only the files in the specified
directories.

Someone else suggested the GNU diff utilities. I have tried them, and
they seem much more useful, especially with the differ GUI frontend.

Alan

Dave Tholen wrote:
> 
> Why not use the COMP utility, which is part of the operating system?
> I verify all my data CD-Rs using COMP before deleting the original
> data from disk.
> 
> Type HELP COMP at a command prompt for more information.

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From: mail@dontwannabesued.com                          15-Dec-99 16:40:08
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: mail@dontwannabesued.com (RCW)

>There's a missing file, EPFIPII.DLL, in the recently released free
>copy of full-function Embellish (see Warpcast for details).  This prevents
>installation of the program.

I found I was missing 3 files - all EPF*.DLL's which are in one of the
Netscape folders (as previously pointed out).  I copied these three
files to the OS/2 .DLL folder.  This worked fine for me.

I thank the Embellish folks for their gift.  It looks like very good
software.

RCW

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        15-Dec-99 15:29:13
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Strange directory created at boot drive

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <fgrvagfghqagahab.fmsh410.pminews@news.ntnu.no>, "Stein L. Tomassen"
<steint@stud.ntnu.no> writes:
>Hi,
>
>can anyone explain why a directory named c:\ is created at
>my boot drive? I have never seen this directory before. If I delete it it
>will be created at the next boot.

Try booting to a command prompt (Alt-F1 F2 - Warp4) after you have deleted
this directory. If it doesn't appear, it probably something in your startup
folder
or something started by your AUTOSTART statement in config.sys. You could 
changing that statement to make it disappear...

>Stein
>

--
John

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: csaba_r@my-deja.com                               15-Dec-99 16:28:04
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Re: Scrolling the OS/2 Command Line Interface

From: csaba_r@my-deja.com (Csaba Raduly)

reedjd@bitsmart.com wrote in <82v99s$o3i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>Is there a way that I can get a buffer and scrollbar in the OS/2
>command line interface?  As I've spending more time working in the
>command line mode I've been frustruted by no buffer to scroll back and
>look at things.
>
>I have to assue my beloved OS/2 has some way to do this.  Can anyone
>help me?
>
>-jordan
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.

try mode co60,136

Csaba
-- 
Csaba Raduly,    Software Developer (OS/2),    Sophos Anti-Virus
mailto:csaba.raduly@sophos.com            http://www.sophos.com/
US Support +1 888 SOPHOS 9            UK Support +44 1235 559933
Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
Version 3.1
GCS/IT/MU d- s:- a30 C++$ UL+ P+>+++ L++ E- W+ N++ o? K? w++>$ O++$ 
M-(+) V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X++ R* tv++ b++ DI+++ D++ G- e+++ h-- r-- 
!y+
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: swansona@fastwave.net                             15-Dec-99 16:57:22
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Minimized Icon Location -- Any way to set?

From: swansona@fastwave.net

	I use some programs which I prefer to have minimized to the desktop. 
I'd like to be able to specify WHERE these are on the desktop.  How do
you do this?
	It must be possible as I've a folder that has a fixed "home" while I 
had a program that had a "home" until it forgot where it lived!

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: swansona@fastwave.net                             15-Dec-99 16:57:24
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 16:48:09
Subj: Web Willy Registration Number -- Anyone ???

From: swansona@fastwave.net

	I understand Web Willy Watch was placed in the public domain and 
that, for awhile, necessary registration numbers were available from a
web site which no longer exists.  Could someone please send me the 
necessary registration information?  --or tell me where I can get it. 
I've "surfed" quite a bit, however.
	I understand the program is no longer supported and that the parental
oversight aspects will therefore not work.  I'm just interested in 
upgrading my NETEX so it will work with Communicator 4.61.

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            15-Dec-99 23:19:15
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Steven C. Britton <sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:
> Stephen Untruth wrote:
>>
>> The rates are on the increase (through a federal/provincial
>> agreement) and will top out at 9.9% in 2003.

> Largest tax-grab in history.

> Also the contribution must be matched by employers.

Yup.  A total of 9.9% which is split equally between employers and
employees.

>> The first $ 3,500 of income is exempt from Canada Pension Plan
>> Contributions.  The maximum pensionable earnings is $ 36,900.

> Oooohh... my heart beats with glee.

>> This the maximum contribution in 2003 will be $ 3,306.60, or
>> approximately 8.9% of income for a person earning $ 36,900.  This
>> payment is born 1/2 by the employer and 1/2 by the employee.

> And if the premiums were eliminated, employers and employees could set up
> matched plans at the same rate and earn a far better return.

Somehow I doubt it.  A large group plan is certainly more efficient
on things like this.

>> Contribution rates for people earning other than this are significantly
>> smaller, as is the current contribution rate.
>>
>> In addition to pension income, the plan provides for disability income
>> (and is the basis of almost all private sector disability plans),
>> survivor benefits (for spouses), orphan benefits (for children), and
>> a death benefit.
>>
>> Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.

> Given the nature and way the plan is operated (a national pyramid scam), it
> is $600 billion in debt, and on the verge of collapse.  Not even the recent
> tax grab will fix it.

It will be around long after you are gone.

Which is quote a happy thought.

> Face it, Stephen, your god, Paul Martin, has simply delayed the
> inevitable -- and I don't take kindly to my money being forcefully stolen
> from me and then wasted -- especially since I'm not going to see a penny of
> return in it.

> In my lifetime, I will put in tens of thousands of dollars in CPP premiums;
> and what do I get when I retire? 

The CPP will provide for the minimum.  You may choose to invest in RRSPs and
all of that.

 A flat income of about $8900 a year -- not
> enough to live on.  Not only that, but the rate of return on investment is
> about 1.2%, which is far LESS than the 15% I'm doing on my mutual funds
> right now.

That's why the federal government negotiated with the provinces to 
change the investment strategy of the fund.

If only those provinces were not in the way, this would have been
done years ago.

-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 16:13:11
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

PL wrote:

> >> Take your head out of the sand. Alot of the young people don't even
> >> know what the rules are.
> >
> >It's their responsibility to educate themselves.

> And by that time some get hurt.

They should educate themselves BEFORE going to work.

> >> There are many companies that do not wish to comply with even exsisting
> >rules.
> >
> >That's fine.  People shouldn't work for them then.

> That maybe answer for the well off. But for many they cannot afford to
> quit a job and just move to the next one.

Not everything is easy.  I never said it was -- but the choice is always
there.

> >Unions aren't needed for that.  If the company isn't following the rules,
it
> >is in the staff's best interest to seek other employment.  I certainly
> >wouldn't work for an unsafe or abusive company -- unionized or not.

> But the unions do help protect the employee in those situations. Make
> that type of company a union shop do the job very well.
> If I could not change the company, I also would not work for a unsafe
> or abusive company

Quitting en masse has a bigger effect than unionizing.  It also causes
instant results; rather than the band-aid approach of unionizing; which
basically sets up an adversarial bargaining process and breeds animosity
between the union and management.

It also sets up stupid ideas such as "the workers" and "management".  As if
"managers" didn't "work".


> >> >> ... minimum wage standards...
> >> >
> >> >Sure!  Minimum wage kills jobs.
> >> What, trying to turn this country into another Mexico?
> >> If we allow the business leaders to set some baseline for wages, all
> >> of our wages would drop down to virtually nothing.
> >
> >That's not true -- I won't work for less than a certain amount.

> I am sure you would not. Nor would I. But there are a again many that
> do not have either the education or skills to be picky about how much
> they earn.

Then they should get educated.  Don't treat the symptom, cure the disease.

> >Businesses pay people what they're worth.  If your statement were true,
> >everybody in the world would make minimum wage and nothing more -- but I
for
> >one make much more than minimum wage.
>
> 25 years ago I would have agreed with you. But not now. It use to be
> if you worked hard, and proved to your manager that you could handle
> extra duties, he usually responded with more money and maybe even a
> promotion if you keep it you.

Then quit.

The truth is that nowadays, people change careers five times in their
life -- because where they go offers better rewards.

> Generally now they give you a promotion to "working supervisor" just
> so they do have to pay overtime. And if there is a pay increase it is
> low you have to ask if it is a joke.

Then quit.  Find another job.

> I also make much more than minimun wage, but that does not blind me
> from the realities of the less fortunate.

Depends on how you define "less fortunate".  Many people on minimum wage at
McDonalds are there because they're students going through school and it's a
source of basic income.  They're usually dependent on their parents for a
place to live, etc, so they don't NEED anything more than that.


> >> Oh and if it does kill jobs, those jobs aren't worth having aroung
> >> anyhow!
> >
> >I didn't say that.  Minimum wage laws actually harm the people they're
meant
> >to help.  If I ran a McDonald's, for example, raising minimum wage would
> >force me to lay off workers (or at least not expand my workforce),
causing
> >service and quality to drop, and I might be forced out of business --
which
> >means that EVERYBODY would lose their job.

> That maybe so for a very small percentage of business. But if they are
> running on such a small margin of profit it would be best if they did
> close shop.

Raising minimum wage would harm ALL businesses.

> >You take the company to court like I did.  And I won.
> >
> >Not all lawyers.  There's legal aid, some lawyers work on a percentage
> >basis...

> My daughter has been there and done that. Legal aid will not accept
> that type of case and every lawyer we called in Edmonton would not
> accept the case without money up front. Do you know why? Because it
> was not a $100,000/yr job. That was right from the mouth of one the
> lawyers we called.
> So who else to defend the employee when all that fails?

You have to decide if the court battle is worth it -- if the result is more
than the lawyer's fee, it's worth it.

> >I'm not afraid of any of that: because in that situation, I'd ensure that
I
> >had an extremely safe workplace (which exceeded the safety standards by a
> >long shot), pay people what they're worth (which, when they're good, can
be
> >far higher than a union would get), and give good benefits.

> May you would ,but countless others would not.

Then countless others would fail.  Countless others DO fail.  Most of them
run bad businesses.

> If they were all good corporate citizens the need for unions would not be
needed. But
> unfortunately that time has never come.
> Oh and by the way, I do not believe every company needs a union. There
> still are some good companies out there who truely believe and
> practice your last example. Those do not need unions. But to the many
> others out there who do not give a shit about there employees, the
> labor rules, the enviroment etc they need a union.

Companies that are union-free do better business, treat their employees
better, and generally have better quality products.  Union shops are more
likely to build crap than non-union shops.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            15-Dec-99 23:14:01
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Alan Baker <Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Except, of course, for the fact that there is no way to guarantee that a 
> future government might change the benefits the plan will pay out. If 
> down the road the feds decide they need the money you may find that you 
> may not be getting the pension you expected and paid for.

Perhaps.  But then that is really up to the provincial governments who
control this sort of thing.

As you know, the federal government does not unilaterally decide the
payouts or the premiums.

-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mcbrides@erols.com                                15-Dec-99 18:13:22
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: Bug in mkisofs with Joliet FS - missing files?

From: mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride)

In article <838mtu$ctp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rshum@my-deja.com wrote:
>I tried to backup a dir tree to CD-RW using mkisofs (1.12b5) and
>cdrecord. The OS is OS2 Warp 3.0 (fixpack 40).
>
>The root dir has some sub-directories. If some of the directories have
>similar names (like abc_fff, abc_ggg, abc_hhh, abc_iii etc), the
>files inside these subdirectories will not make it to the CD-RW.
>
>If I look at the CD-RW after burning, I can still see the directories
>but these directories will be empty.
>The filenames are less than 64 characters long.
>
>I move all these directories to another root directory, like
>root_dir/all_other_sub_directories
>root_dir2/abc_fff, abc_ggg, abc_hhh, abc_iii
>
>Then I burn these two root directories to the same CD-RW, there is no
>problem. All the files are there.
>
>This problem only happens to certain directory name, not all- say
>if I use efg_ as the base of those directories, there will be no
>problem.
>
>Did anyone else encounter this problem?
>

No. But just trying to understand the syntax of declaring what directory you
want copied and where-to is enough to make a guy drink. I undestand that these
utilities (mkisofs and cdrecod) are being ported from the unix world, but man
have a heart for us OS/2 users... :')

For instance, to backup a directory tree of: d:\files\os2 I have to use this
on a mkisofs command line: files/=d:\files\os2. Why not rearrange the input
parser to accept the more logical and more used: d:\files\os2 and create both
the "files" and "os2" directory? If you did like I did and used:
/=d:\files\os2
during a mkisofs session, you end up with all the files at \files\os2 at the
root level on the cdrom... that, my friend... sucks... :')

Also, I've noticed strangeness when copying complete drives to rom. Using the
"os/2 logical" syntax of: /=c:\ does not work over here, you have to specify:
/=c:/ to get it all on cdrom correctly... What the??? Unix anyone? :')

All that goofyness aside, I use cdrecord and mkisofs FAR, FAR more regularly
than RJS or UNITEcd... In fact, since the "32" release of cdrecord, I don't
bother with either of the commercial apps. No if I can ONLY get multisession
support to work 100%, I'd be a totally happy camper...

--

*******************************************************************************

*                                  OS/2 ????                                 
*
*                              YOU AREN'T ALONE!                             
*
*               http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~meile/los2cl.html         
*
*******************************************************************************


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From: chris@os2ezine.com                                15-Dec-99 23:04:20
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: chris@os2ezine.com (Chris Wenham)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:43:21, "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org> 
wrote:

> that's completely wrong. I don't know what you did, but mysql, php and
> apache are running VERY fine out of the box with apache 1.3.9
> at Netlabs.org and OS2.org !!!
> the version from http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/ is the best I know of.
> and the most actual version too
>  
> > They are badly out of synch with the current official OS/2 port of 
> >Apache.
>  
> also wrong. take a look at the mentioned url, and you'll find even a 
> developer version of apache 2.0. so what is out of sync !?

 I wanted to add that I criticized what I found on _hobbes_ and I'm 
confident that everything I said about the versions available there is
still true. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to try that 
archive first.

 Would it be possible for you to take the copy that you have and 
upload it to hobbes? That site of yours is either unreachable, or 
stalls in the middle of the download. It'd also mean everyone else 
only has one place to go, instead of combing newsgroups to get URLs.

>same as above.

 Is there much satisfaction in rebuffing the same thing five times in 
the same message?

Chris Wenham - editor@os2ezine.com
The views expressed are mine.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: an479@lafn.org                                    15-Dec-99 16:11:22
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: J. N. Pfisterer <an479@lafn.org>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:39:23 -0800, Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.) wrote:

>As an aside, could you, most highly esteemed reader, send me
>email
>describing to me the repeating glyph you see in the line
>underneath
>my email address in my signature below?  Is it a "C" or an "R"
>inside
>a circle, or any other glyph? 
>
>-- 
> ===>  tgal@pobox.com
>
>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
>InfoBaHn on:  Rockwell, Netscape, InJOY, and OS/2
>____________________________________________________
>((( BOXER )))  fassst, 32-bit character mode editor
>
>http://www.boxersoftware.com/
>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
>((( InJOY ))) INTERNET DIALER apparatus EXTRAORDINAIRE!
>
>http://www.fx.dk/injoy
>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
>((( BLOWFISH ))) ENCRYPTION for users/developers.
>
>http://www.counterpane.com/blowfish.html
>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©

I make it out to be Ks in a circle.  I think it means you're Kosher.  :)

Jack P.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: wayne@SPAM.tkb.att.ne.jp                          16-Dec-99 07:47:12
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:21
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: "Wayne Bickell" <wayne@SPAM.tkb.att.ne.jp>

On 15 Dec 1999 20:00:38 GMT, Per Backman wrote:

:>This did not work for me, in stead I had to run "EPFINSTS.EXE", then 
:>chose file/open etc and then find a file called "EMBELSH.ICF" and open
:>that to install. This worked, but now when I run "EPFINSTS.EXE" in 
:>Netscapes directory, it wants to do something with Embellish. It is 
:>not really a problem, now I know how to make it work.
:>
:>If this is the file, that Dadaware has been distributing as Shareware 
:>(or how was it distributed??), I can very well understand, that 
:>business has not been brilliant.

No, the version of Embellish that I paid for installed just fine.

Cheers

Wayne



******************************************************
Wayne Bickell
Tokyo, Japan
wayne@tkb.att.ne.jp
******************************************************
           Posted with PMINews 2 for OS/2
  Running on OS/2 Warp 4 (UK)  + FixPak 9
******************************************************



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From: garske@ibm.net                                    14-Dec-99 23:35:08
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:22
Subj: Re: Netscape vs. Opera

From: "Rolf Garske" <garske@ibm.net>

I think that is not Netscape's fault, but you hit a time limit of
the webserver. When you sing up for the download, they
generate a virtual ftp address for you. I think that ftp address
has a lifetime of just 2 hours. After that, it gets invalid.

But you have the option of ordering the CD or downloading
it peacemeal and recombine the files at your end with a batchfile that is
also available for download.


On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 01:30:27 -0800, Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.) wrote:

:>Alex Taylor wrote:
:>> 
:>> Comm 4.61 runs just fine for me, though, given Netscape's inherent
:>> idiosyncracies.  (Runs better than on Windows, actually.)
:>
:>4.61 quits downloading at 14 Mb of the 113 Mb zip for the
:>"just released" VA for Java v3.
:>
:>-- 
:> ===>  tgal@pobox.com
:>
:>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
:>InfoBaHn on:  Rockwell, Netscape, InJOY, and OS/2
:>____________________________________________________
:>((( BOXER )))  fassst, 32-bit character mode editor
:>
:>http://www.boxersoftware.com/
:>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
:>((( InJOY ))) INTERNET DIALER apparatus EXTRAORDINAIRE!
:>
:>http://www.fx.dk/injoy
:>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
:>((( BLOWFISH ))) ENCRYPTION for users/developers.
:>
:>http://www.counterpane.com/blowfish.html
:>¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸

_____________________________________________________________________________
Phone: +49 211 6914777  Mobile Phone: +49 172 2117822    Fax: +49 211 6914778
Email: garske@ibm.net   CompuServe: 100023,3324          PGP Key on Request


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              15-Dec-99 23:19:18
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 letoured@nospam.net wrote:

> >You have become boring.
> >Killfile time.

> Its about what I expected since you're a lier (you started off
> with your foot in your mouth and then kept it up) and you either
> don't have the guts to admit it or the brains to prove me wrong.

I can't speak for Steve, but I know I wouldn't spend too much time
trembling before the intellectual might of somebody who repeatedly
calls me a "lier".

"Don't have the brains" indeed.

Chris J Delanoy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 23:38:02
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:22
Subj: Re: ftp.os2.org Down?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:05:16, James Stotz <jstotz@canoemail.com> 
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is ftp.os2.org down, or is it just me that can't connect to it?   The
> "Daily Builds" link on the Netlabs/odin site won't let me connect.  I
> assume others can though.  Anybody else with problems?

Not here, but the Internet clearly was not having one of its good days
today. Here's the listing for ftp.os2.org/odin/daily:

Dec 10 10:15     1,209,848 ü odin32bin-19991210.zip
Dec  7 10:05     1,205,370 ü odin32bin-19991207.zip
Dec  6  8:15     1,201,774 ü odin32bin-19991206.zip
Dec  2  0:34     1,198,948 ü odin32bin-19991202.zip
Nov 27  0:28     1,189,443 ü odin32bin-19991127.zip

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 23:39:15
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:22
Subj: Re: Printer Objects

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:12:04, "David T. Johnson" 
<djohnson@isomedia.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Pat & Carol Shanahan wrote:
> > 
> > I have lost my printer objects from the Printers Folder.  I used to have a
> > rexx cmd file to recreate them but ??.
> > 
> > Can someone be so kind as to tell me how to recreate the printer objects
in
> > my Printers Folder.
> 
> You might look in the "connections" folder...they might still be in
> there.  Otherwise, don't have a .CMD or rexx to recreate them but an
> alternative is to go to the templates folder and tear off a new printer
> object.  Then give it a name and select the output port and
> driver...should only take a few seconds.

Don't forget to reboot, and if you've tried to print in this session, 
reboot before building a Printer Object using the same driver.

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: gzimmer@attglobal.net                             16-Dec-99 01:13:19
  To: All                                               15-Dec-99 21:17:22
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: gzimmer@attglobal.net

In <R1sU48D5wG6M090yn@erols.com>, mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) writes:

>First off, I'm not able to create multisession CD's. I am able to write new
>data to an old cd, but the old information is lost in the process. I have
>edited os2cdrom.dmd and added my drive manufacturer name, but it behaves no
>different. Would any of you guys/gals that are successful in creating a
>multisession disk, holding data, please detail your process?

This will be off the top of my head, because I've misplaced my CDRecord
info. I have the same SCSI card as you, Adaptec 1522a, and a Yamaha
4416. The first thing I did was go to IBM's Device Driver site, and get
the CDFS.IFS that supports multi-session CD's. The driver is dated 10-14-98.
I haven't actually tried to make a multi-session CD, but I will try one and
get back to you.

>Secondly, what's the big deal with DAO? I'm able to use it, but what's the
>purpose for it? Can you offer up some real-time samples of how and when you
>do use it?

My understanding from the Adaptec software docs that came with the drive,
is that this is Disk At Once, in other words, you don't have to create an
image
first, you can burn your data directly. The Yamaha supports this mode.

I use the CD Audio/Data Creator front end to CD Record/2, and that offers
an 'On the Fly' option, which is DOA. I have tried that, and it works nicely.

>Thirdly, I've been trying like the dog to pipe the mkisofs output directly to
>cdrecord without any succes what-so-ever. Can you share your methods with me
>and possibly a lot of others also?

At the Audio/Data CD Creator site, the author has a FAQ, which gives the
mkisofs commands to do this. The site is:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/5785/cdrecord/cdrecordmain.htm

Sorry to be so sketchy with this, I basically use the front end, which issues
the mkisof commands automatically.

Gail Zimmerman
gzimmer@ibm.net

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               15-Dec-99 21:18:25
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
> On <3856F2D8.7C53D352@ibm.net>, on 12/14/99 at 08:46 PM,
>    Joseph <josco@ibm.net> said:
> 
> > Defending MS against left wingers?  Who!?! I never thought of SUN's
> > Scott McNealy as a liberal let alone a jealous left winger.  I bet he'd
> > laugh at that slurr being his father was a GM auto exec.  MS's enemies
> > are conservative corporations in say Utah and companies owned by
> > billionaires like Larry Ellison and Soctt McNealy.
> > It's all about money and power between wealthy and powerful
> > people.
> 
> Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Your
> argument above was the crux of the defense raised by AT&T. It wasn't valid
> then. It isn't valid now.

While you might have a point with a different analogy, the breakup of AT&T was
consentual (ie AT&T wanted to be broken up).  The idea was that 90% of the
cost of doing business was local and 90% of the profit was long-distance.  The
thing they didn't expect was regionalization of the default long-distance
carrier; they figured they'd get the long-distance business pretty much lock,
stock, and barrel and it'd be up to the other companies to take it away from
them.

It didn't work out that way, but you gotta admire the way they managed the
breakup such that they got all kinds of concessions while spinning off the
expensive part of doing business even if they didn't get the whole ball of
wax.

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               15-Dec-99 21:30:18
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

> : Not even close.  GEM existed by then, as did Windows 2, and there were
about
> : half a dozen PC UNIXen with X11 support by then (I used three of them). 
So
> : not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
> : distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
> 
> I'm not sure I would call X11 a "GUI". At least in my books (and probably
> many others), X11 or X-Windows is strictly a window manager. It doesn't do
> anything but exactly that, manage your windows. It's got window frames,
> and it's got icons, but you can't do anything with those icons, just
> minimize and maximize. Now slap on GNOME or KDE on top of that, now you
> have a GUI.

Strictly speaking X11 is just a remote rendering system.  The rest are
applications.  A window manager application does a lot of what you expect from
a GUI (frames around the windows, icon management, and such).  A collection of
tools and libraries makes up the rest.  X11 of course had all of that (and by
1988 had a whole bunch of different window managers) albeit a bit clunky and
ugly.  "Just minimize and maximize" was pretty much what you'd get from uwm,
but awm and twm and a handful of others were a lot more functional.  There was
even a funky lisp-based window manager.

> And why is it so important to be the first PC with a GUI? Even though
> other computers had it. Remember Atari ST machines? The Amiga?
> Heck, maybe those of you old enough will remember Commodore-64's running
> with GEOS!

I sure do remember GEOS, and the ST, and the Amiga.  The ST was
super-interesting because it was a terrific MIDI control system.  I had a
friend who called it "the poor man's Mac".  Honestly I thought the Amiga was
better done.  The Apple IIgs was out around that time as I remember too;
wasn't that ProDOS with a GUI shell?  I also remember the Lisa, it died the
death it deserved (though not as quickly or spectacularly as the Apple ///). 
Never saw an Alto or Star though.

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               15-Dec-99 21:36:06
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Kim Cheung wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:25:17 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:
> 
> >Kim Cheung wrote:
> >> >This is a great idea. Have you done any projections on "in the home"
cost of
> >> >implementing Concorde? As I see it, it looks a bit expensive.
[...]
> >If the cost is going to be in the, say, $300 range one wonders why you
> >wouldn't just buy a whole other machine to run Windows.  It's not like it'd
> >cost a lot more (or, probably, any more at all once you got done buying
> >Windows and the basic application suite retail versus getting it bundled).
> >
> >Or, more generally: What's the point of an expensive software solution when
> >hardware is so cheap?
> 
> Why?   Because for the enterprise, the cost of the hardware is not the issue
> here.   Imagine having 64,000 desktops that has to have 2 monitors, 2
> computers, and so forth.   The TCO for ONE desktop is high enough - now you
> need to double that?

As I read it, they were asking about using it "in the home".  For "in the
corporation" I agree with you (that multiple boxes are bad), and in fact I'd
suggest that you toss the OS/2 boxes because you can get all the same software
on Windows and a whole lot more without the funky bridging stuff.

COO for NT is way lower than either OS/2 or Win9x (you can easily lock down
the configuration against changes, deliberate or accidental); it's a really
viable corporate system at this point and still way cheaper than this product.

> Besides, the two "brains" will be communicating with each other at PCI bus
> speed: not network speed.   We intend to make it as seamless as possible to
> the point where it will be pretty much like a Win-OS/2 session within OS/2.

More power to you.  You're gonna need it, no such product has ever succeeded
in the market, and OS/2 is a lot less healthy than others before it.

jim

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From: tholenantispam@hawaii.edu                         16-Dec-99 02:50:18
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: tholenantispam@hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)

Jim Frost writes:

>>> So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
>>> distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
 
>> I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
>> is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
>> That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.

> I stand corrected.
>
> In any case the claim that OS/2 1.1 was the first GUI-equipped OS for
> the PC was dead wrong.

But there's the old argument about what constitutes an "OS".

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From: dcasey@ibm.net                                    15-Dec-99 19:09:22
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: dcasey@ibm.net (Dan Casey)

In article <385787DA.5404BCDE@home.com>, Jim Stuyck <jstuyck@home.com> wrote:
>There's a missing file, EPFIPII.DLL, in the recently released free
>copy of full-function Embellish (see Warpcast for details).  This prevents
>installation of the program.

Hmmm ... My installation went just fine. Took mere seconds to
complete, and the program seems to run just fine (without need for a
reboot). But you are correct in that that file is not present in the
distribution. It is, however, present on my system, in 7 different
locations:

60,062 06-06-95  9:40a  D:\VID_UTIL\VIEWERS\PMVIEW\EPFIPII.DLL
45,214 07-20-98  2:00a  D:\...\OBJDESK.$BK\utility\OBJDESK\EPFIPII.DLL
45,214 09-26-98  2:00a  D:\UTILITY\OBJDESK\EPFIPII.DLL
45,215 01-10-97  1:04p  D:\INTERNET\NETSCAPE\EPFIPII.DLL
45,214 11-20-95  5:22p  D:\INTERNET\FTPD\TOOLS\EPFIPII.DLL
45,214 11-20-95  5:22p  D:\INTERNET\ACROBAT3\READOS2\EPFIPII.DLL
60,062 05-22-95 11:21a  D:\IBMCPP\EPFIPII.DLL

My guess would be that if the file is present, and in a location that
is already in your PATH statement (or LIBPATH), then it will be used.

Now, then ... my question has to be this:
If I have several obviously different versions of this file, and their
locations are in a LIBPATH or PATH statement, am I going to have
conflicts somewhere that could cause problems?


--
**************************************************************
*  Dan Casey                                                 *
*  President                                                 *
*  V.O.I.C.E. (Virtual OS/2 International Consumer Education *
*  http://www.os2voice.org                                   *
*  Abraxas on IRC                                            *
*  http://members.iquest.net/~dcasey                         *
*  Charter Associate member, Team SETI                       *
*  Warpstock 99 in Atlanta  http://www.warpstock.org         *
**************************************************************
*  E-Mail (subject: Req. PGP Key) for Public Key             *
**************************************************************

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From: j.welton@mailcity.com                             15-Dec-99 17:21:22
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: FP12 - Trap 00d

From: Jeff Welton <j.welton@mailcity.com>

Dale Erwin wrote:

  I just installed FP12 today, then when I tried to reboot, I got the
  following trap:
  ------------------------------
  Exception in Device Driver:  ES18691$
  Trap 00d              ERRCE=0084    ERRAC=****       ERLIM=********
  EAX=fde20084   EBX=ffff0000    ECX=00004e88    EDX=00000000
  ESI=9692001e    EDI=00000291    EBP=00004eaa    FLG=00213246
  CS:EIP=2ae0:00004260    CSACC=0096    CSLIM=000068d0
  SS:ESP=0030:00004ea6    SSACC=1097    SSLIM=00003fff
  DS=2ad8    DSACC=0093    DSLIM=00002bf0    CR0=8001001b
  ES=2ad8    ESACC=0093    ESLIM=00002bf0    CR2=ffe1813a
  FS=0000    FSACC=****    FLSIM=********
  GS=0000    GSACC=****    GSLIM=********

  The system detected an internal processing error at
  location ##0168:fff4832e - 0000:c32e.

  600000, 9084
  05860570
  Internal Revision 9.036, 99/07/20

  The system is stopped.  Record all of the above
  information and contact your service representative.
  ------------------------------
  Seems that I have heard it said before that not much of this
  information is beneficial to determining the cause of the trouble.
  I am sure the first line is important though.  After several
  unsuccessful
  tries to reboot, I booted from Utility disks and REMed out the two
  lines in config.sys with that driver name in it.  I was then able to
  reboot,
  but now I have no audio.

  Does anyone know of a workaround, or am I going to have to
  backout the entire fixpack?
  --
  Dale Erwin
  Dallas, Texas


Yes, I can tell you.  I suffered through this problem again and
again while trying to bring my system back to a useable state
after trying a poor beta program  called SciDisplay Doctor.

I tried all of the available updates, including the updated driver from
the ESS site itself and the driver from that Indelible Blue guy's site
and still failed.  And then some kind soul named Osmo told me to 
go here:

http://service.software.ibm.com/os2ddpak/html/2632ADD962A12DA3852561B2004F42F4.

html

and download IBM's version of the ESS drivers.  You need to copy all
the files over to a floppy because the install program works only from
the A: drive but once the menu comes up, I told it to use the files (which
I had copied over to the A: drive floppy) found in the original temp directory
where I first unzipped them.  Don't know why but that worked.  I don't
have WinOS/2 on my system so I didn't bother with the WinOS/2
driver, just the straight ess1688 driver.  This version brought my sound
system back to normal.  

Hope it works for you.



Jeffrey D. Welton



Posted Using: J Street Mailer (build 99.1.9.pvk (19990912))

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From: gzimmer@attglobal.net                             16-Dec-99 01:32:04
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: gzimmer@attglobal.net

In <38583cc3_4@news1.prserv.net>, gzimmer@attglobal.net writes:

>4416. The first thing I did was go to IBM's Device Driver site, and get
>the CDFS.IFS that supports multi-session CD's. The driver is dated 10-14-98.
>I haven't actually tried to make a multi-session CD, but I will try one and
>get back to you.

Sorry, that is wrong. It's the idedasd.exe package, with a readme dated
June 04, 1999. It's OS2CDROM.DMD which has the multi-session support
and that driver is dated 6/3/99.

Gail Zimmerman
gzimmer@ibm.net

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From: letoured@nospam.net                               15-Dec-99 21:40:15
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

 Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> said:

>> >You have become boring.
>> >Killfile time.
>> Its about what I expected since you're a lier (you started off
>> with your foot in your mouth and then kept it up) and you either
>> don't have the guts to admit it or the brains to prove me wrong.

>I can't speak for Steve, but I know I wouldn't spend too much time
>trembling before the intellectual might of somebody who repeatedly calls
>me a "lier".

The jackass has a website full of commentary on political events, and
claims here to know of union excesses at this and that -- yet when he is
put on the spot to tell me where to get the same info he claims to have
read, all I see is whining about go find it or you're stupid. 

Now don't you just think that someone who writes about these things ought
to be able to point to valid sources of supporting data?  Until he does,
what we really have is a dude who stuck his foot in his mouth and doesn't
have the guts to admit it or the brains to back up what he states.  That
makes him a lier until he does. 

 -- What I have come to see is that Britton is a Canadian Rush Limbrain
who tells lies and runs for cover when someone holds him to the fire and
says where is the stuff to prove what you claim.


_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: nkennedy@seascape.ns.ca                           16-Dec-99 03:05:06
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 00:43:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: nkennedy <nkennedy@seascape.ns.ca>

What I have come to see is that Britton is a Canadian Rush Limbrain
who tells lies and runs for cover when someone holds him to the fire and
says where is the stuff to prove what you claim. ->letoured

From what I can see Britton is a 19 year old, snot nosed, second year
student at U of A. A young man consumed with guilt and shame.
  His only sexual activity is talking about it. You know one of these
young men who declare:
 "I had a wet dream last night, I would have had another one, but I fell
asleep"
   He thinks that every sperm that he lets get away is an abortion, thus
the guilt.
  If you think I'm exaggerating go back and read his post where he talks
about women "getting nude anf doing the bad thing"
   Save your time, ignore him, or pray for him.

                                    Neil K

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           15-Dec-99 10:15:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3856a483_4@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/14/99 at 01:11 PM,
   "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

> That's what happens when there's lots of jobs and few people to fill
> them. Companies have to make it worth the applicant's while to take the
> job.

> When there's lots of people and few jobs, applicants have to make it
> worth the company's while to take them.

> That's what reality is all about.

That is the basis of a Capitalistic economy, the most favorable system yet
invented by the minds of men.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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From: ericb@pobox.com                                   15-Dec-99 11:01:17
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: Eric Bennett <ericb@pobox.com>

In article <8T3V4odSRgYO089yn@ibm.net>, James Knott <jknott@ca.ibm.com> 
wrote:

> In article <837hgj$6so$1@news.hawaii.edu>,
> tholenantispam@hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) wrote:
> >Jim Frost writes:
> >
> >> So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
> >> distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
> >
> >I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
> >is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
> >That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.
> >
> 
> It's called "Desktop on Call".  There are OS/2, Linux and even Windows
> versions of it.  It does work, but is *SLOW*, even when running 
> Netscape on a Pentium 150 on a 16 Mb token ring lan, with both 
> computers on the same desk.  It's really strange to see the desktop 
> change almost instantly on the remote system and watch the same info 
> slowly appear on the local computer.

VNC has also been ported to OS/2.  I have not used that version, but I 
use VNC extensively on Digital Unix and Mac OS, and it is much faster 
than what you describe for Desktop on Call (I run it over 10baseT).

-- 
Eric Bennett ( http://www.pobox.com/~ericb/ ) 
Cornell University / Chemistry & Chemical Biology

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'ask'.
-Bill Gates, in his deposition in US v. Microsoft

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From: fegehrke@worldnet.att.net                         15-Dec-99 11:18:08
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Forrest Gehrke <fegehrke@worldnet.att.net>

Bob Germer wrote:
> 
> The lowest price I ever paid for gasoline was 22 cents a gallon in 1957.
> That is eqivalent to approximately $1.25 today. It took 10 gallons in 1957
> to go 100 miles in an un-air conditioned car with no power steering, no
> power brakes, etc. Today, less money takes me 250 miles in air conditioned
> comfort with power everything.
> 
Heh! Since I am older than even your advanced age I remember
buying gas 7 gallons for a dollar in the 1930's. You even got 
a nice water glass or could collect the pieces of kitchen
ware with each purchase.

And BTW, a Ford or Chevrolet set you back $495 list. Of course,
you counted yourself a fortunate fellow with a job paying
30 cents an hour (the legal minimum wage; in 1938 Congress
raised it to 32 cents per hour. Bonanza, almost a 7% raise!). 
//

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               15-Dec-99 09:27:23
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:25:17 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

>Kim Cheung wrote:
>> >This is a great idea. Have you done any projections on "in the home" cost
of
>> >implementing Concorde? As I see it, it looks a bit expensive.
>> 
>> "Expensive" is always a relative term - of course.
>> 
>> The "in the home" cost will be determined purely by the qty produced and
>> that's why we wanted to get some sense of that using a survey.    I would
say
>> you shouldn't expect it to be less than a "few" hundred dollars.
>
>Keeping in mind that I wasn't able to find any information at all on Concorde
>looking at Serenity Systems' website:
>
>If the cost is going to be in the, say, $300 range one wonders why you
>wouldn't just buy a whole other machine to run Windows.  It's not like it'd
>cost a lot more (or, probably, any more at all once you got done buying
>Windows and the basic application suite retail versus getting it bundled).
>
>Or, more generally: What's the point of an expensive software solution when
>hardware is so cheap?
>

Why?   Because for the enterprise, the cost of the hardware is not the issue
here.   Imagine having 64,000 desktops that has to have 2 monitors, 2
computers, and so forth.   The TCO for ONE desktop is high enough - now you
need to double that?

Besides, the two "brains" will be communicating with each other at PCI bus
speed: not network speed.   We intend to make it as seamless as possible to
the point where it will be pretty much like a Win-OS/2 session within OS/2.





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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 10:44:06
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

PL wrote:
> >
> >People should be responsible for their own pensions.  If the company they
> >work for wants to set up a group pension plan, that's fine too.
Government
> >has no responsibility in the matter.
>
> Totally agree. But is the employer willing to pay the extra wages to
> me so that I could do that?
> Not bloody likely!!

No need.  If the government were to stop taking 10+% in pension plan
premiums, people could invest that money in their own private plans and make
far more return than on the government plan.

> >Don't work for companies that don't keep responsible health and safety
> >codes.  You don't need a union to uphold that.  If nobody works for such
a
> >company, they can't produce; and therefore they disappear.
>
> Absolute bullshit.
> Take your head out of the sand. Alot of the young people don't even
> know what the rules are.

It's their responsibility to educate themselves.

> There are many companies that do not wish to comply with even exsisting
rules.

That's fine.  People shouldn't work for them then.

> So you have the union to ensure that the company does follow the rules.
Government
> does[n't] do anything until after the infraction.

Unions aren't needed for that.  If the company isn't following the rules, it
is in the staff's best interest to seek other employment.  I certainly
wouldn't work for an unsafe or abusive company -- unionized or not.

> >> ... minimum wage standards...
> >
> >Sure!  Minimum wage kills jobs.
> What, trying to turn this country into another Mexico?
> If we allow the business leaders to set some baseline for wages, all
> of our wages would drop down to virtually nothing.

That's not true -- I won't work for less than a certain amount.

> But that's what many businesses would like isn't it?

Businesses pay people what they're worth.  If your statement were true,
everybody in the world would make minimum wage and nothing more -- but I for
one make much more than minimum wage.

> Oh and if it does kill jobs, those jobs aren't worth having aroung
> anyhow!

I didn't say that.  Minimum wage laws actually harm the people they're meant
to help.  If I ran a McDonald's, for example, raising minimum wage would
force me to lay off workers (or at least not expand my workforce), causing
service and quality to drop, and I might be forced out of business -- which
means that EVERYBODY would lose their job.

> >> just cause dismissals ...
> >
> >Unions have nothing to do with that; it's a violation of one's right to
> >liberty because the company, by not dismissing with just cause, is
> >initiating force against the person they're canning.
> You are totally wrong. Without a union how do you fight a wrongful
> dismissal?

You take the company to court like I did.  And I won.

> Alberta Labour?
> Now thas a joke. They will not help.
> Take them to court?
> How many workers could afford that? Lawyers want money up front (Lots
> of it)

Not all lawyers.  There's legal aid, some lawyers work on a percentage
basis...

there's all kinds of ways.

> Having managed both union and non union locations. Union shops are by
> far easier to manage. Ever fired a union worker? I have, when it
> became nessesary due to lack of preformance. Follow the rules and it
> is easy. And to boot no wrongful dismissal suite.
> So what are you afraid ?? Might have to pay higher wages? or benefits?
> make the work place safer?

I'm not afraid of any of that: because in that situation, I'd ensure that I
had an extremely safe workplace (which exceeded the safety standards by a
long shot), pay people what they're worth (which, when they're good, can be
far higher than a union would get), and give good benefits.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 10:52:28
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau foamed:
>
> You heard it!

Yes.  I heard it.

> With the rantings we have from you so far my first guess is
> that you either heard an anti-union editorial or you only heard the parts
> you liked or you dreamed it.

You're a closed-minded bigot.

> >> >I'm secure enough to know that what I'm saying is true.
>
> So prove it.

I don't need to any further.  It's true.  I've provided references for
everything I've talked about.  630 CHED, and various newspapers.

> >1.  I don't work for an ISP.
> >2.  I _am_ a CEO
> >3.  I don't _have_ to deliver any URLs.  The information is readily
> >available to those smart enough to find it.
> >4.  You're an idiot.
>
> I've called you a lier in public.

Yes; you have.  You're wrong.  You're also not worth any more time than I'm
giving you already.  You're giving yourself far too much credit and value.

> So far all you're done to defend yourself is rant on about its true and
me. Not very impressive. If you are
> a CEO then show us your stuff. Unless of course if just bullshit.

I own my own private business.  Therefore, I am a CEO.

> >Yes:  It's lunacy.  You don't pay people based on collectiveness.  You
> >pay them based on merit.
>
> So you have people doing the same job and receiving different pay.  --

Yep.  Some people do it better than others, and therefore are worth more.

People get paid based on the value they bring.

> Must be some dumbass union guy got the better of you somewhere along the
> line.

I've never worked in a union shop; and I never will.

> >What about them?  They're beaurocrats.  Canada Post is a Crown
> >Corporation.
>
> Can't work well with others huh?  -- You said that you could have
> increased earings at Saveway several times over. Now as more of your
> personality emerges, you want us to believe that you could have managed
> the prise and wouldn't need anyone else to manage it.

I work extremely well with others.  I don't know where you get what you say
from what I've said; because the connection just doesn't exist.

More proof of your idiocy.

> >You obviously can't read newspapers.  The Ontario Election was a massive
> >union goon battleground.
>
> I don't read Canadian newspapers. What makes you think I would want to?

You wanted proof.  Read up.

> -- If you're a real CEO then you ought to have enough respect for yourself
> to stand up and not let me call you a two-bit lier in front of the world.

I can't stop you from calling me a liar; and this isn't "in front of the
world".  This is the usenet.

And nobody of value takes _you_ seriously.

> Where are the URLs with the stories to prove your point?

Do you yahoo?

If not, do it.

> >> Someone with real CEO material on their shoulders would step up to the
> >challenge and show us
> >> something more then whining and sniveling.
> >Someone with half a brain cell in their head would be able to research
> >the material and see that it's true.
>
> Again, if you had any self respect you wouldn't let me call you a lier. --
> I already looked. If you can prove your claim then do it. Otherwise you're
> a lier so shutup.

This coming from someone who can't even spell the word?  HA!

> >The campaign was in 1998.  The Ontario Newspapers were the Toronto Star
> >(pro-union, by the way), Hamilton Spectator, Toronto Sun, Globe and Mail,
> >Ottawa Citizen.
>
> I think anyone who claims to be a CEO ought to have enough brains to prove
> me wrong in short order. So when are you going to grow some balls and lead
> us right to it.

No need.  The papers have web sites.  If you can't figure out how to get to
them, you're pretty damn stupid.

Not surprising, really...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 10:53:28
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Ed Letourneau wrote:

<drivel>

You have become boring.

Killfile time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: mike@lionsgate.com                                15-Dec-99 18:01:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: mike@lionsgate.com (Mike Stephen)

In message
<xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fmrga90.pminews@news.pacbell.net> -
"Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>Tue, 14 Dec 1999
21:30:09 -0500 (EST) writes:
:>
:>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:25:23 -0500, Jerry McBride wrote:
:>
:>>Hi Kim,
:>>
:>>This is a great idea. Have you done any projections on "in the home" cost
of
:>>implementing Concorde? As I see it, it looks a bit expensive.
:>
:>"Expensive" is always a relative term - of course.
:>
:>The "in the home" cost will be determined purely by the qty produced and
:>that's why we wanted to get some sense of that using a survey.    I would
say
:>you shouldn't expect it to be less than a "few" hundred dollars.
:>
:>Did you logon?   If so, go to that site that's referenced.   They have SRP
:>pricing for what they do.
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>


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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 11:03:01
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:

> > I never said that Microsoft wasn't breaking the law.  I said that the
> > laws were wrong, and I said that Microsoft had done nothing wrong.
>
> If MicroSoft broke the laws, which you acknowledge they did, then by
> definition they did wrong. You cannot have it any other way in the real
> world.

I guess you're just too closed-minded to see that laws can, in fact, be
unjust, which means that someone doing something perfectly ethical can in
fact be breaking the law.

In other words, one can break the anti-trust laws without actually doing
anything wrong.

> > When the laws are tyrannical, and their victims realize that they can't
> > do anything about them because the system is so jealous of their success
> > that they're going to find against them anyway, the best course of
> > action is to cut one's losses as best one can.
>
> And the way to do that is to comply with the laws until one can LEGALLY
> effect a change in said law.

One would expect that if one is doing business ethically (which Microsoft
was), one wouldn't be breaking any laws in the process.

> > If I were Bill, I'd retire; take my money, and move to the Cayman
> > Islands and live out the rest of my life in tax-free comfort; raising my
> > middle finger to the collective lunacy of the jealous left wing
>
> He wouldn't have much to live on if he did. The US would seize his assets
> here and he wouldn't see a penny.

How tyrannical.  Another reason why I'll never move to the US -- not that
it'll disappoint you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 11:04:13
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> > That's what reality is all about.
>
> That is the basis of a Capitalistic economy, the most favorable system yet
> invented by the minds of men.

That is the basis of REALITY; the only system that exists.  It was not
invented by the minds of men: it is just the way the world works.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 18:22:18
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:18:16, Forrest Gehrke 
<fegehrke@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Bob Germer wrote:
> > 
> > The lowest price I ever paid for gasoline was 22 cents a gallon in 1957.
> > That is eqivalent to approximately $1.25 today. It took 10 gallons in 1957
> > to go 100 miles in an un-air conditioned car with no power steering, no
> > power brakes, etc. Today, less money takes me 250 miles in air conditioned
> > comfort with power everything.
> > 
> Heh! Since I am older than even your advanced age I remember
> buying gas 7 gallons for a dollar in the 1930's. You even got 
> a nice water glass or could collect the pieces of kitchen
> ware with each purchase.
> 
> And BTW, a Ford or Chevrolet set you back $495 list. Of course,
> you counted yourself a fortunate fellow with a job paying
> 30 cents an hour (the legal minimum wage; in 1938 Congress
> raised it to 32 cents per hour. Bonanza, almost a 7% raise!). 

You're claiming that our Free-Trade U.S. Capitalists (of that Golden 
Era The Thirties) had to be forced, by Act Of Congress, to pay their 
workers as little as 30 cents an hour? 

You're trying to make us believe they weren't all clamoring to fork 
over 30 cents per hour per hard-working man out of the goodness of 
their hearts, or sense of social fairness? 

What church did they take their families to, on Sunday? What religion 
were they? They couldn't have been Christ-ians, right?


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: letoured@nospam.net                               15-Dec-99 13:52:16
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:


>You have become boring.
>Killfile time.

Its about what I expected since you're a lier (you started off with your
foot in your mouth and then kept it up) and you either don't have the guts
to admit it or the brains to prove me wrong.

_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    15-Dec-99 17:17:23
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:22:31, tholenantispam@hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) 
wrote:

> Why not use the COMP utility, which is part of the operating system?
> I verify all my data CD-Rs using COMP before deleting the original
> data from disk.

It's what I use....but a pain if there are lots of directories, and 
errors scroll off the screen.
-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 18:04:20
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:40:17, mail@dontwannabesued.com (RCW) wrote:

> >There's a missing file, EPFIPII.DLL, in the recently released free
> >copy of full-function Embellish (see Warpcast for details).  This prevents
> >installation of the program.
> 
> I found I was missing 3 files - all EPF*.DLL's which are in one of the
> Netscape folders (as previously pointed out).  I copied these three
> files to the OS/2 .DLL folder.  This worked fine for me.

That's not a very safe procedure to use, though in this case you're 
probably not going to get bit because IBM's development of EPFINST 
seems to have stalled at a '96 build. 

But if a newer version of any of those DLLs were to be distributed, 
your Install procedure then might pick up the older versions in 
\OS2\DLL (via your LIBPATH) and you could have problems. At least keep
"." entry (to look for DLLs in the current directory) at the front of 
the statement:

LIBPATH=.;xxxxxxxxx

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: rcpj@panix.com                                    15-Dec-99 18:42:12
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)

Andreas Linde <andreas.linde@os2.org> writes:
> 
> the problem is you mysql version. to use this new version the php-module
> has be to recompiled. or you have to wait for a new version from the
> location mentioned.

What version of MySQL should I use, then? And how do I set it up so that
PHP/Apache can talk to it?

Pierre
-- 
Pierre Jelenc                  | www.mp3.com/cucumbers  www.mp3.com/pawnshop
                               | www.cdbaby.com/buy/rawkinder.htm
The New York City Beer Guide   | Home Office Records http://www.web-ho.com
   http://www.nycbeer.org      | www.mp3.com/jeniferjackson

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From: rshum@my-deja.com                                 15-Dec-99 18:33:20
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Bug in mkisofs with Joliet FS - missing files?

From: rshum@my-deja.com

I tried to backup a dir tree to CD-RW using mkisofs (1.12b5) and
cdrecord. The OS is OS2 Warp 3.0 (fixpack 40).

The root dir has some sub-directories. If some of the directories have
similar names (like abc_fff, abc_ggg, abc_hhh, abc_iii etc), the
files inside these subdirectories will not make it to the CD-RW.

If I look at the CD-RW after burning, I can still see the directories
but these directories will be empty.
The filenames are less than 64 characters long.

I move all these directories to another root directory, like
root_dir/all_other_sub_directories
root_dir2/abc_fff, abc_ggg, abc_hhh, abc_iii

Then I burn these two root directories to the same CD-RW, there is no
problem. All the files are there.

This problem only happens to certain directory name, not all- say
if I use efg_ as the base of those directories, there will be no
problem.

Did anyone else encounter this problem?


--
Regards,
Roger Shum


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: ccsten@usa.net                                    15-Dec-99 14:10:19
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Terry Norton <ccsten@usa.net>

How about PMDMatch?  Compares directories including subs, plus it
can save snapshots as well.


Bob Eager wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:22:31, tholenantispam@hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen)
> wrote:
> 
> > Why not use the COMP utility, which is part of the operating system?
> > I verify all my data CD-Rs using COMP before deleting the original
> > data from disk.
> 
> It's what I use....but a pain if there are lots of directories, and
> errors scroll off the screen.

-- 

Terry Norton
Warped with OS/2

    A sign of the '90s:
       Your supervisor doesn't have the ability to do your job.

This OS/2 system uptime is 1 days 19 hours 40 minutes (en).

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From: luc.vanbogaert.nospam@pandora.be                  15-Dec-99 18:21:08
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Pain in the ass

From: "Luc Van Bogaert" <luc.vanbogaert.nospam@pandora.be>

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:44:37 -0500, Dale Winters wrote:

>Sorry for the language but I am up against it after trying to get
>realplayer5.0 working under warp4.

Have you looked at
http://os2.about.com/compute/os2/library/weekly/aa120298.htm ?
I used this article to install RA5.0 and it works fine now.


Luc Van Bogaert

  Vice President  - Warpstock
    Visit www.warpstock.org for the most important OS/2 event of the year


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From: reply_to_the_newsgroup@please.com                 15-Dec-99 17:27:04
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: Wim Wauters <reply_to_the_newsgroup@please.com>


Jerry McBride wrote:
> 
> I am and have been a happy user of cdrecord, but I find I'm lacking some
> expertese that I wish I had. Would someone answer some short questions to
> help me along?

Warning ! this is just a general pointer and VOICE promo !

There's a fine how-to with screenshots over at
www.os2VOICE.org.
Look at the newsletters, and find the index for August 1999.

Have fun reading.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net                     15-Dec-99 17:29:03
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug Bissett)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:49:19, mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin) wrote:

> Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...
>  

It is even more unreasonable, since it is obviously mostly a bug fix 
for a product that never did work properly. It didn't take the Lotus 
people long to adjust to the IBM way of (not) doing business <g>. 

At $20, I might have considered ordering a CD, IF there was some 
indication that the package actually works (or, at least fixed most of
the basic problems with the older versions). I never bothered with the
1.1 "upgrade", because there was never any indication that it fixed 
anything.

So, Off the top of my head (and I haven't really looked into any of 
this for a long time), there is:

Clearlook, as a word processor (I assume this still exists???)

MESA for a spreadsheet (and Database??).

What else is currently available to replace the Lotus garbage??? Web 
sites? My needs are not complicated, but it would be nice to get 
something that actually works (WordPro isn't too bad, but Approach is 
almost unusable, in my case).

Thanks...
******************************
From the PC of Doug Bissett
doug.bissett at attglobal.net
The " at " must be changed to "@"
******************************

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From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net                     15-Dec-99 17:29:04
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: Strange directory created at boot drive

From: doug.bissett"at"attglobal.net (Doug Bissett)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:45:37, "Stein L. Tomassen" 
<steint@stud.ntnu.no> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> can anyone explain why a directory named c:\ is created at
> my boot drive? I have never seen this directory before. If I delete it it
> will be created at the next boot.
> 
> Stein
> 

Have you run a virus scan lately??? 

Hope this helps...
******************************
From the PC of Doug Bissett
doug.bissett at attglobal.net
The " at " must be changed to "@"
******************************

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From: dd@dandrake.com                                   15-Dec-99 18:29:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:08
Subj: Re: ExaByte 8200 & tar

From: dd@dandrake.com (Dan Drake)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:42:10, crh@physics.purdue.edu (Charles Hunter) 
wrote:

> jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak) writes:
> 
> >Has anyone managed to use tar (part of GTAK258) with an ExaByte 8200
> >tape drive?
> 
> I've used it fine for a long time on a 8100. I was even able to use
> the "recommended" driver, which from my ( probably bad) memory was the ASPI
> driver?
>...

Using it regularly on an 8700, and have restored from it many times 
without problem.
Here are the settings in config.sys:

Rem drivers, using Adaptec SCSI
BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
BASEDEV=AIC7870.ADD
BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD

Rem GTAK
device=g:\gtak\sys\aspitape.sys tape$2 3 S2
set tape=scsi:lb,tape$2

-- 
Dan Drake
dd@dandrake.com
http://www.dandrake.com/index.html

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From: isaacl@jazz.ece.ubc.ca                            15-Dec-99 19:41:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: isaacl@jazz.ece.ubc.ca (e-frog)

Jim Frost (jimf@frostbytes.com) wrote:
: Nino wrote:
: > But OS/2 1.1 was maybe the most important OS/2
: > version ever : it's most important feature was PM, Presentation Manager,
: > fast
: > and reliable, that we still use today when running Warp.

: Fast and reliable?  Not that 1st version of PM!  It took them another two
: tries to stabilize it.

: > OS/2 1.1 is
: > thus the first operating system for PC with a GUI,

: Not even close.  GEM existed by then, as did Windows 2, and there were about
: half a dozen PC UNIXen with X11 support by then (I used three of them).  So
: not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
: distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.

I'm not sure I would call X11 a "GUI". At least in my books (and probably
many others), X11 or X-Windows is strictly a window manager. It doesn't do
anything but exactly that, manage your windows. It's got window frames, 
and it's got icons, but you can't do anything with those icons, just
minimize and maximize. Now slap on GNOME or KDE on top of that, now you
have a GUI.

And why is it so important to be the first PC with a GUI? Even though
other computers had it. Remember Atari ST machines? The Amiga?
Heck, maybe those of you old enough will remember Commodore-64's running
with GEOS!


Isaac

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From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            15-Dec-99 19:53:23
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Steven C. Britton <sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

> No need.  If the government were to stop taking 10+% in pension plan
> premiums, people could invest that money in their own private plans and make
> far more return than on the government plan.

Perhaps a brief reality check.

What is the amount of Canada Pension Plan premiums which are currently
being charged?

Answer:  The rates are on the increase (through a federal/provincial
agreement) and will top out at 9.9% in 2003.

The first $ 3,500 of income is exempt from Canada Pension Plan 
Contributions.  The maximum pensionable earnings is $ 36,900.

This the maximum contribution in 2003 will be $ 3,306.60, or
approximately 8.9% of income for a person earning $ 36,900.  This
payment is born 1/2 by the employer and 1/2 by the employee.

Contribution rates for people earning other than this are significantly
smaller, as is the current contribution rate.

In addition to pension income, the plan provides for disability income
(and is the basis of almost all private sector disability plans), 
survivor benefits (for spouses), orphan benefits (for children), and
a death benefit.

Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.


-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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From: viewme18@hotmail.com                              15-Dec-99 14:04:16
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: PL <viewme18@hotmail.com>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:44:13 -0700, "Steven C. Britton"
<sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

>PL wrote:
>> >
>> >People should be responsible for their own pensions.  If the company they
>> >work for wants to set up a group pension plan, that's fine too.
>Government
>> >has no responsibility in the matter.
>>
>> Totally agree. But is the employer willing to pay the extra wages to
>> me so that I could do that?
>> Not bloody likely!!
>
>No need.  If the government were to stop taking 10+% in pension plan
>premiums, people could invest that money in their own private plans and make
>far more return than on the government plan.
>
>> >Don't work for companies that don't keep responsible health and safety
>> >codes.  You don't need a union to uphold that.  If nobody works for such
>a
>> >company, they can't produce; and therefore they disappear.
>>
>> Absolute bullshit.
>> Take your head out of the sand. Alot of the young people don't even
>> know what the rules are.
>
>It's their responsibility to educate themselves.
And by that time some get hurt. 
>
>> There are many companies that do not wish to comply with even exsisting
>rules.
>
>That's fine.  People shouldn't work for them then.
That maybe answer for the well off. But for many they cannot afford to
quit a job and just move to the next one. 

>
>> So you have the union to ensure that the company does follow the rules.
>Government
>> does[n't] do anything until after the infraction.
>
>Unions aren't needed for that.  If the company isn't following the rules, it
>is in the staff's best interest to seek other employment.  I certainly
>wouldn't work for an unsafe or abusive company -- unionized or not.
But the unions do help protect the employee in those situations. Make
that type of company a union shop do the job very well.
If I could not change the company, I also would not work for a unsafe
or abusive company 

>
>> >> ... minimum wage standards...
>> >
>> >Sure!  Minimum wage kills jobs.
>> What, trying to turn this country into another Mexico?
>> If we allow the business leaders to set some baseline for wages, all
>> of our wages would drop down to virtually nothing.
>
>That's not true -- I won't work for less than a certain amount.
I am sure you would not. Nor would I. But there are a again many that
do not have either the education or skills to be picky about how much
they earn. 
>
>> But that's what many businesses would like isn't it?
>
>Businesses pay people what they're worth.  If your statement were true,
>everybody in the world would make minimum wage and nothing more -- but I for
>one make much more than minimum wage.
25 years ago I would have agreed with you. But not now. It use to be
if you worked hard, and proved to your manager that you could handle
extra duties, he usually responded with more money and maybe even a
promotion if you keep it you. 
Generally now they give you a promotion to "working supervisor" just
so they do have to pay overtime. And if there is a pay increase it is
low you have to ask if it is a joke.
I also make much more than minimun wage, but that does not blind me
from the realities of the less fortunate.  
>
>> Oh and if it does kill jobs, those jobs aren't worth having aroung
>> anyhow!
>
>I didn't say that.  Minimum wage laws actually harm the people they're meant
>to help.  If I ran a McDonald's, for example, raising minimum wage would
>force me to lay off workers (or at least not expand my workforce), causing
>service and quality to drop, and I might be forced out of business -- which
>means that EVERYBODY would lose their job.
That maybe so for a very small percentage of business. But if they are
running on such a small margin of profit it would be best if they did
close shop.
>
>> >> just cause dismissals ...
>> >
>> >Unions have nothing to do with that; it's a violation of one's right to
>> >liberty because the company, by not dismissing with just cause, is
>> >initiating force against the person they're canning.
>> You are totally wrong. Without a union how do you fight a wrongful
>> dismissal?
>
>You take the company to court like I did.  And I won.
>
>> Alberta Labour?
>> Now thas a joke. They will not help.
>> Take them to court?
>> How many workers could afford that? Lawyers want money up front (Lots
>> of it)
>
>Not all lawyers.  There's legal aid, some lawyers work on a percentage
>basis...
My daughter has been there and done that. Legal aid will not accept
that type of case and every lawyer we called in Edmonton would not
accept the case without money up front. Do you know why? Because it
was not a $100,000/yr job. That was right from the mouth of one the
lawyers we called. 
So who else to defend the employee when all that fails?
>
>there's all kinds of ways.
>
>> Having managed both union and non union locations. Union shops are by
>> far easier to manage. Ever fired a union worker? I have, when it
>> became nessesary due to lack of preformance. Follow the rules and it
>> is easy. And to boot no wrongful dismissal suite.
>> So what are you afraid ?? Might have to pay higher wages? or benefits?
>> make the work place safer?
>
>I'm not afraid of any of that: because in that situation, I'd ensure that I
>had an extremely safe workplace (which exceeded the safety standards by a
>long shot), pay people what they're worth (which, when they're good, can be
>far higher than a union would get), and give good benefits.
May you would ,but countless others would not. If they were all good
corporate citizens the need for unions would not be needed. But
unfortunately that time has never come.
Oh and by the way, I do not believe every company needs a union. There
still are some good companies out there who truely believe and
practice your last example. Those do not need unions. But to the many
others out there who do not give a shit about there employees, the
labor rules, the enviroment etc they need a union.  





>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>What have YOU done to bust a union today?
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Work better: Work union-free.
>
>Steven C. Britton
>Calgary
>
>www.cadvision.com/sbritton
>
>

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From: rcpj@panix.com                                    15-Dec-99 19:11:02
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)

Robert Gehrig <rgehrig@primenet.com> writes:
> 
> You can get the latest Apache and PHP from
> http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/

I have them up and running.
 
> You must set permissions in the MySQL table user in the MYSQL database.
>
> Get the O'REILLY book MySQL & mSQL. It has much information about the
> database.

I have it. On p. 42 the 1st step on administration, to change the root
password, abends with "Process terminated by SIGSEGV". Not encouraging.
What is the default root password anyway? And how do I create a new user
account and grant permissions?

> It also has a few examples of interfacing apache and MySQL with PHP.

Where exactly? I read the whole book, and I can't find it.

> Also there is a book by Leon Atkinson called Core PHP programming that has a
> lot of useful information about PHP.

I have it. I have PHP scripts working on several servers, and I can use a
MySQL server that's been set up on a Unix machine. It's only getting MySQL
to work on my local machine that's not working.

Cheers,

Pierre
-- 
Pierre Jelenc                  | www.mp3.com/cucumbers  www.mp3.com/pawnshop
                               | www.cdbaby.com/buy/rawkinder.htm
The New York City Beer Guide   | Home Office Records http://www.web-ho.com
   http://www.nycbeer.org      | www.mp3.com/jeniferjackson

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From: tgal@pobox.com                                    15-Dec-99 11:39:11
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: "Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.)" <tgal@pobox.com>


Buddy Donnelly wrote:
> 
> But if a newer version of any of those DLLs were to be distributed,
> your Install procedure then might pick up the older versions in
> \OS2\DLL (via your LIBPATH) and you could have problems. At least keep
> "." entry (to look for DLLs in the current directory) at the front of
> the statement:
> 
> LIBPATH=.;xxxxxxxxx

By the way, it always puzzled me why the Netscape README files
require
that the "." not be placed ahead of the Netscape paths, like
this:

LIBPATH=C:\USOF\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM;C:\USOF\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM\JAVA;.;
...

Any SWAGS?


As an aside, could you, most highly esteemed reader, send me
email
describing to me the repeating glyph you see in the line
underneath
my email address in my signature below?  Is it a "C" or an "R"
inside
a circle, or any other glyph? 

-- 
 ===>  tgal@pobox.com

¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
InfoBaHn on:  Rockwell, Netscape, InJOY, and OS/2
____________________________________________________
((( BOXER )))  fassst, 32-bit character mode editor

http://www.boxersoftware.com/
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
((( InJOY ))) INTERNET DIALER apparatus EXTRAORDINAIRE!

http://www.fx.dk/injoy
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
((( BLOWFISH ))) ENCRYPTION for users/developers.

http://www.counterpane.com/blowfish.html
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               15-Dec-99 11:51:20
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:10:38 -0500, Terry Norton wrote:

>How about PMDMatch?  Compares directories including subs, plus it
>can save snapshots as well.

Ha...it's following the exact same discussions....

No, you don't want to use comp and no you don't want to use ANY of the
directory comparision utility programs.

COMP does a file by file compare.   That part is true.  But each time you run
it, it's a command.com operation.    When you have to walk through 600M of
stuff, it takes FAR FAR too long.

Directory compare is not enough - you still don't know if the files are the
same.

Damn.   That one program I ran into did it perfectly.


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From: pbackman@remoove.algonet.se                       15-Dec-99 20:00:19
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: pbackman@remoove.algonet.se (Per Backman)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:21:45, Jim Stuyck <jstuyck@home.com> wrote:

> There's a missing file, EPFIPII.DLL, in the recently released free
> copy of full-function Embellish (see Warpcast for details).  This prevents
> installation of the program.
> 
> The workaround I used is this:
> 
> 1)  Create a directory for installing, i.e. md e:\emblsh
> 2)  Change to that directory, i.e. cd emblsh
> 3)  Copy ALL parts of EPF from the \netscape\siutil directory,
>      i.e. copy e:\netscape\siutil\epf*.*
> 4)  Unzip the Embellish distribution file, i.e. unzip e:\embos2.zip
> 5)  Install the program, i.e. install
> 
> By copying all parts of EPF all of the files are at the correct level.
> 
> After installation, and after rebooting, you can delete the epf*.* files
> from the Embellish directory.
> 
> Jim Stuyck
> 
This did not work for me, in stead I had to run "EPFINSTS.EXE", then 
chose file/open etc and then find a file called "EMBELSH.ICF" and open
that to install. This worked, but now when I run "EPFINSTS.EXE" in 
Netscapes directory, it wants to do something with Embellish. It is 
not really a problem, now I know how to make it work.

If this is the file, that Dadaware has been distributing as Shareware 
(or how was it distributed??), I can very well understand, that 
business has not been brilliant.

Per B.

************************************************************
The PHOTO&NATURIST page;
In English, auf deutsch, po polsku;        
http://hem.fyristorg.com/pbackman/
ICQ UIN; 40714141
************************************************************

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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          15-Dec-99 20:09:01
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:39:23, "Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.)" 
<tgal@pobox.com> wrote:

> 
> By the way, it always puzzled me why the Netscape README files
> require
> that the "." not be placed ahead of the Netscape paths, like
> this:
> 
> LIBPATHC:\USOF\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM;C:\USOF\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM\JAVA;.;
> ...
> 
> Any SWAGS?

If I understood it correctly when it first came up, it had to do with 
the updated version of PMDDEML.DLL that came with the Netscape package
needing to be found instead of the stock version in \OS2\DLL. I think 
the requirement has gone by the way, with later versions.


-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: Trevor-Hemsley@dial.pipex.com                     15-Dec-99 20:27:25
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Trevor Hemsley" <Trevor-Hemsley@dial.pipex.com>

On 15 Dec 1999 19:11:04 GMT, Pierre Jelenc wrote:

->On p. 42 the 1st step on administration, to change the root
->password, abends with "Process terminated by SIGSEGV".

I downloaded the latest version from hobbes.nmsu.edu yesterday and got
this on _any_ command that wanted an argument passed to it. Trashed the
3.22-26a version and went back and got the other, older, one and that
worked perfectly first time.


Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
(Trevor-Hemsley@dial.pipex.com or 75704.2477@compuserve.com)



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From: pat@iquest.net                                    15-Dec-99 14:41:15
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Printer Objects

From: pat@iquest.net (Pat & Carol Shanahan)

I have lost my printer objects from the Printers Folder.  I used to have a
rexx cmd file to recreate them but ??.

Can someone be so kind as to tell me how to recreate the printer objects in
my Printers Folder.

-- 
Pat Shanahan <pat@iquest.net>                   MERLIN with Yarn/2

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From: attglobal.net@attglobal.net                       15-Dec-99 10:23:09
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Bootmanager

From: attglobal.net@attglobal.net (RJFREEM)

In <8290s1$g97$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, on 12/03/99 
   at 06:07 PM, heloman@my-deja.com said:

Partition letters are assigned to primary partitions and then to logical
partitions. If you install boot manager,it will occupy a primary
partition. You can then create, with fdisk, as many as 3 primary C:
partitions on disk 1, two of which will be hidden partitions, but
selectable with boot manager. I suggest this because if your present OS is
OS2 and is booting from C: it will not boot from any other partition
letter. Primary C: is on disk 1, primary D: on disk 2 and you can have
primary E: on disk 5. The logical letter assignments follow in letter
order from from disk to disk. Logical F: and G: on disk 1, Log H: and I:
on disk 2, J: and K: on disk 3, L: and M: on disk 4, and N: and O: on disk
5. RJF

>I am contemplating adding another operating system to my
>computer. I will have two physical hard drives. From the posts I have
>read it appears that bootmanager is the way to go vice dual boot. Under
>bootmanager if I make one (physical) drive 'C'   and install the 'other'
>operating system on it - create a logical partition or two then go to the
>other (physical) drive on which I have my currently running operating
>system - will this drive still be 'C' or will it become some other
>designation? Will the other partitions (logical) on the second physical
>drive
>automatically be renamed (should it no longer be referred to as 'C') to
>their correct drive letters? Sorry for all the questions but have never
>used it and really hadn't contemplated on
>installing another system. Any help/responses will be cheerfully
>accepted.........


>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
attglobal.net@attglobal.net (RJFREEM)
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: djohnson@isomedia.com                             15-Dec-99 12:12:02
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Printer Objects

From: "David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com>


Pat & Carol Shanahan wrote:
> 
> I have lost my printer objects from the Printers Folder.  I used to have a
> rexx cmd file to recreate them but ??.
> 
> Can someone be so kind as to tell me how to recreate the printer objects in
> my Printers Folder.

You might look in the "connections" folder...they might still be in
there.  Otherwise, don't have a .CMD or rexx to recreate them but an
alternative is to go to the templates folder and tear off a new printer
object.  Then give it a name and select the output port and
driver...should only take a few seconds.
> --
> Pat Shanahan <pat@iquest.net>                   MERLIN with Yarn/2

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jstotz@canoemail.com                              15-Dec-99 13:05:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: ftp.os2.org Down?

From: James Stotz <jstotz@canoemail.com>

Hi,

Is ftp.os2.org down, or is it just me that can't connect to it?   The
"Daily Builds" link on the Netlabs/odin site won't let me connect.  I
assume others can though.  Anybody else with problems?

James
Physics/SFU


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jstotz@canoemail.com                              15-Dec-99 13:05:08
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: ftp.os2.org Down?

From: James Stotz <jstotz@canoemail.com>

Hi,

Is ftp.os2.org down, or is it just me that can't connect to it?   The
"Daily Builds" link on the Netlabs/odin site won't let me connect.  I
assume others can though.  Anybody else with problems?

James
Physics/SFU


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca                        15-Dec-99 13:18:10
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Alan Baker <Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca>

In article <flS54.3836$07.101879@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>, 
jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca wrote:

>In can.politics Steven C. Britton <sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:
>
>> No need.  If the government were to stop taking 10+% in pension plan
>> premiums, people could invest that money in their own private plans and 
>> make
>> far more return than on the government plan.
>
>Perhaps a brief reality check.
>
>What is the amount of Canada Pension Plan premiums which are currently
>being charged?
>
>Answer:  The rates are on the increase (through a federal/provincial
>agreement) and will top out at 9.9% in 2003.
>
>The first $ 3,500 of income is exempt from Canada Pension Plan 
>Contributions.  The maximum pensionable earnings is $ 36,900.
>
>This the maximum contribution in 2003 will be $ 3,306.60, or
>approximately 8.9% of income for a person earning $ 36,900.  This
>payment is born 1/2 by the employer and 1/2 by the employee.
>
>Contribution rates for people earning other than this are significantly
>smaller, as is the current contribution rate.
>
>In addition to pension income, the plan provides for disability income
>(and is the basis of almost all private sector disability plans), 
>survivor benefits (for spouses), orphan benefits (for children), and
>a death benefit.
>
>Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.


Except, of course, for the fact that there is no way to guarantee that a 
future government might change the benefits the plan will pay out. If 
down the road the feds decide they need the money you may find that you 
may not be getting the pension you expected and paid for.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that
wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the 
bottom of that cupboard."

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: weiss@tds.net                                     15-Dec-99 21:38:22
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: InnoVal To Offer Low-Cost OS/2 ISP Service!

From: weiss@tds.net

In comp.os.os2.advocacy Bob Eager <rde@tavi.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:45:35, andrew@netneurotic.de (Andrew J. Brehm) 
> wrote:

>> Why? What's wrong with Innoval?

> This is the company that quietly dropped support for, first, their 
> newsreader, then (not so quietly) BOTH their OS/2 mail clients. 
> Leaving loyal users out in the cold.

Not at all. Innoval made Post Road Mailer and Jstreet available for *free*
after they dropped out. That's pretty darn generous. They didn't have to.

And Jstreet is still being developed at http://www.polarbar.org.

Considering how even IBM has dropped development for Warp client and there is
no reasonably sized client market left for OS/2, why should any company
develop for OS/2 unless  profit is meaningless?

It's a sad fact. We OS/2 users can use the client OS but there's little
incentive anymore to develop for it.

Jeffrey

> -- 
> Bob Eager
> rde at tavi.co.uk
> PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
> 8580*6,
> 8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: malstrom@yolen.oit.umass.edu                      15-Dec-99 17:06:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:09
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: Jason <malstrom@yolen.oit.umass.edu>

In comp.os.os2.advocacy e-frog <isaacl@jazz.ece.ubc.ca> wrote:

: I'm not sure I would call X11 a "GUI". At least in my books (and probably
: many others), X11 or X-Windows is strictly a window manager. It doesn't do
: anything but exactly that, manage your windows. It's got window frames, 
: and it's got icons, but you can't do anything with those icons, just
: minimize and maximize. Now slap on GNOME or KDE on top of that, now you
: have a GUI.

I wouldn't call X Windows a window manager.  It doesn't mininmize, 
mazimize or have icons.  Seperate programs called window managers do 
that.  X is made up of two parts, a server and client.  The client sends 
information about what's inside boxes to an X server.  The X sever 
displays these boxes in different places on your screen.  It also sends 
infomation about the keyboard and mouse back to the programs.  I'm over 
simplyfying it, but that's the general idea from what I can tell.

-Jason

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            15-Dec-99 16:02:01
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:10
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Stephen Untruth wrote:
>
> The rates are on the increase (through a federal/provincial
> agreement) and will top out at 9.9% in 2003.

Largest tax-grab in history.

Also the contribution must be matched by employers.

> The first $ 3,500 of income is exempt from Canada Pension Plan
> Contributions.  The maximum pensionable earnings is $ 36,900.

Oooohh... my heart beats with glee.

> This the maximum contribution in 2003 will be $ 3,306.60, or
> approximately 8.9% of income for a person earning $ 36,900.  This
> payment is born 1/2 by the employer and 1/2 by the employee.

And if the premiums were eliminated, employers and employees could set up
matched plans at the same rate and earn a far better return.

> Contribution rates for people earning other than this are significantly
> smaller, as is the current contribution rate.
>
> In addition to pension income, the plan provides for disability income
> (and is the basis of almost all private sector disability plans),
> survivor benefits (for spouses), orphan benefits (for children), and
> a death benefit.
>
> Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.

Given the nature and way the plan is operated (a national pyramid scam), it
is $600 billion in debt, and on the verge of collapse.  Not even the recent
tax grab will fix it.

Face it, Stephen, your god, Paul Martin, has simply delayed the
inevitable -- and I don't take kindly to my money being forcefully stolen
from me and then wasted -- especially since I'm not going to see a penny of
return in it.

In my lifetime, I will put in tens of thousands of dollars in CPP premiums;
and what do I get when I retire?  A flat income of about $8900 a year -- not
enough to live on.  Not only that, but the rate of return on investment is
about 1.2%, which is far LESS than the 15% I'm doing on my mutual funds
right now.

And you call the CPP a GOOD thing?  OPEN YOUR EYES!

Oh yeah -- you suffer from that terminal psychiatric condition call
Liberalism.  It causes blindness, amongst other things...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: chris@os2ezine.com                                15-Dec-99 22:05:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 02:11:10
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: chris@os2ezine.com (Chris Wenham)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:43:21, "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org> 
wrote:

> 
> that's completely wrong. I don't know what you did, but mysql, php and
> apache are running VERY fine out of the box with apache 1.3.9
> at Netlabs.org and OS2.org !!!
> the version from http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/ is the best I know of.
> and the most actual version too

 That URL is unreachable. Is there a mirror?

Regards,

Chris Wenham - editor@os2ezine.com
The views expressed are mine.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dhu@smartt.com                                    14-Dec-99 08:40:05
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 03:34:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "D. Hu" <dhu@smartt.com>

All the more reason voters should make sure the
next bunch of crooks elected would have their
fingers burned to the elbows if they dare think
about touching pension funds and EI surpluses.
Instead of being passive about this, push for new
laws.

D.

Alan Baker wrote:

> >Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.
> 
> Except, of course, for the fact that there is no way to guarantee that a
> future government might change the benefits the plan will pay out. If
> down the road the feds decide they need the money you may find that you
> may not be getting the pension you expected and paid for.
> 
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to
that
> wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the
> bottom of that cupboard."

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kwilas@stardock.com                               16-Dec-99 03:50:12
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 03:34:19
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: kwilas@stardock.com (Kris Kwilas)

In article <8T3V4odSRgYO089yn@ibm.net>, James Knott <jknott@ca.ibm.com> wrote:
>It's called "Desktop on Call".  There are OS/2, Linux and even Windows
>versions of it.  It does work, but is *SLOW*, even when running 
>Netscape on a Pentium 150 on a 16 Mb token ring lan, with both 
>computers on the same desk.  It's really strange to see the desktop 
>change almost instantly on the remote system and watch the same info 
>slowly appear on the local computer.

That's more a function of the machines in question than anything
else. I run it over our 10Mb network at the office and, as an
example, when connecting to one of the servers (beefy PII-400
system running lots of stuff), it's faster working with that machine
via Desktop on Call than it is working locally on my PII-233
for general operations (I wouldn't do graphics design over it
though :). 

Kris

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               15-Dec-99 19:58:04
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 03:34:19
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:36:12 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

>As I read it, they were asking about using it "in the home".  For "in the
>corporation" I agree with you (that multiple boxes are bad), and in fact I'd
>suggest that you toss the OS/2 boxes because you can get all the same
software
>on Windows and a whole lot more without the funky bridging stuff.

Yes, lots of the Windows advocates would love to see OS/2 just disappear from
the surface of earth.   That's not going to happen.    But let's not get into
that.    We have significant reaction from enterprise because it means that
they don't have to spent hundreds of millions of dollars rewriting their time
tested line-of-business applications just so they can run these "funky"
Windows software packages.

We put up this survey just to see if it would mean anything for the
non-enterprise OS/2 users.



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: huffd@nls.net                                     16-Dec-99 03:43:28
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 03:34:19
Subj: Grinch Awards -- Two Early Finalists

From: "David D. Huff Jr." <huffd@nls.net>

The first award goes to Egghead. Their adds are misleading in that they
state that they usually ship this or that product in 7 to 10 days or
longer. Well they are up to their old tricks. They take your information
including your charge number of course and right at the bottom of the
final purchase page (on the bottom left only seen if you scroll to the
bottom of the page) is the little notice that they are out of stock.
What bastards! Ready and willing to take your money and spoil your
Christmas, too. What bastards!

And the second coveted award goes to a Microsoft lover site that is too
good to take OUR money.
http://www.ccraft.net

This particular site states that they only support IE4.0&5.0 and NO
NETSCAPE
Below unedited is my note to them and theirs in return. Drop them a note
and wish them a Happy Holidays!

Subject:
        RE: No Netscape! Fuck YOU
   Date:
        Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:32:16 -0500
   From:
        daniel <daniel@ccraft.net>
     To:
        "David D. Huff Jr." <huffd@nls.net>




You to !


-----Original Message-----
From: David D. Huff Jr. [mailto:huffd@nls.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 6:29 PM
To: info@e-sales2000.com
Subject: No Netscape! Fuck YOU







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From: viewme18@hotmail.com                              16-Dec-99 01:09:04
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 04:48:28
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: PL <viewme18@hotmail.com>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:13:22 -0700, "Steven C. Britton"
<sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

>PL wrote:
>
>> >> Take your head out of the sand. Alot of the young people don't even
>> >> know what the rules are.
>> >
>> >It's their responsibility to educate themselves.
>
>> And by that time some get hurt.
>
>They should educate themselves BEFORE going to work.
Well even better. Get a union in. They will ensure the workplace is
safe.
>
>> >> There are many companies that do not wish to comply with even exsisting
>> >rules.
>> >
>> >That's fine.  People shouldn't work for them then.
>
>> That maybe answer for the well off. But for many they cannot afford to
>> quit a job and just move to the next one.
>
>Not everything is easy.  I never said it was -- but the choice is always
>there.
Yes you forgot one. Get a union in. You will keep your job, not lose
any pay and get a better company to work for.
>
>> >Unions aren't needed for that.  If the company isn't following the rules,
>it
>> >is in the staff's best interest to seek other employment.  I certainly
>> >wouldn't work for an unsafe or abusive company -- unionized or not.
>
>> But the unions do help protect the employee in those situations. Make
>> that type of company a union shop do the job very well.
>> If I could not change the company, I also would not work for a unsafe
>> or abusive company
>
>Quitting en masse has a bigger effect than unionizing.  It also causes
>instant results; rather than the band-aid approach of unionizing; which
>basically sets up an adversarial bargaining process and breeds animosity
>between the union and management.
Quitting en masse does have a bigger effect but only for the short
term. 2 days later they have hired a bunch more employees and start
all over again. Unionizing the employees is a much more effecient
approach. Employees do not lose wages (no quitting needed) and then
end up with a safe work place. 
It sure can be adversarial bargaining if the company wishes to be
bastards about it. When they chose to not work with the union
regarding the issues and try to dictate to the union, they will be
adversarys. Issues like wage reductions and giving less benefits just
because they want to is not going to go over in a union shop. Now if
it wage reductions because the company did not make money, then open
the books up and show the union reps the info. 99% of the time they
will get reductions to save the jobs. 
>
>It also sets up stupid ideas such as "the workers" and "management".  As if
>"managers" didn't "work".
They do no such thing. What it does do is make sure that the manager
is not allowed to work on the floor doing a workers job. 
>
>
>> >> >> ... minimum wage standards...
>> >> >
>> >> >Sure!  Minimum wage kills jobs.
>> >> What, trying to turn this country into another Mexico?
>> >> If we allow the business leaders to set some baseline for wages, all
>> >> of our wages would drop down to virtually nothing.
>> >
>> >That's not true -- I won't work for less than a certain amount.
>
>> I am sure you would not. Nor would I. But there are a again many that
>> do not have either the education or skills to be picky about how much
>> they earn.
>
>Then they should get educated.  Don't treat the symptom, cure the disease.
Well one way to cure the disease is to raise the minimum wage so that
they can afford to got back to school.

>
>> >Businesses pay people what they're worth.  If your statement were true,
>> >everybody in the world would make minimum wage and nothing more -- but I
>for
>> >one make much more than minimum wage.
>>
>> 25 years ago I would have agreed with you. But not now. It use to be
>> if you worked hard, and proved to your manager that you could handle
>> extra duties, he usually responded with more money and maybe even a
>> promotion if you keep it you.
>
>Then quit.
Nope , get a union in and get paid to do the extra duties. 
>
>The truth is that nowadays, people change careers five times in their
>life -- because where they go offers better rewards.
Yes they do change careers at least 5 times in their life. And if they
are lucky, EI may even pay for that training. 
EI should be paying for retraining alot more than they do
Speaking of EI, remember all the people who went on EI in the early
90's. (Not sure you would. You very young)
The government did not deal with corporations properly. They should
have investigated each one of them. If they laid off workers because
they wanted to give higher rates of returns to investors, then the
company should have paid the EI to the laid of worker. If the company
was going the tubes then EI would foot the bill.
That would have taken thousands off the EI books because the layoffs
would not have happened. 
To bad that the management of those companies were so brain dead that
they could offer anything better than layoffs.

>
>> Generally now they give you a promotion to "working supervisor" just
>> so they do have to pay overtime. And if there is a pay increase it is
>> low you have to ask if it is a joke.
>Then quit.  Find another job.
Nope, get a union in. Working supervisor disappears.
>> I also make much more than minimun wage, but that does not blind me
>> from the realities of the less fortunate.
>
>Depends on how you define "less fortunate".  Many people on minimum wage at
>McDonalds are there because they're students going through school and it's a
>source of basic income.  They're usually dependent on their parents for a
>place to live, etc, so they don't NEED anything more than that.
And many are not. They are young people with families trying to make a
living without going on welfare. Many students do not live with the
parents for various reasons. Most are not dependant on the parents nor
do the wish to be. 
And who are to judge what they need regarding wages or anything else
for that matter! 
>
>
>> >> Oh and if it does kill jobs, those jobs aren't worth having aroung
>> >> anyhow!
>> >
>> >I didn't say that.  Minimum wage laws actually harm the people they're
>meant
>> >to help.  If I ran a McDonald's, for example, raising minimum wage would
>> >force me to lay off workers (or at least not expand my workforce),
>causing
>> >service and quality to drop, and I might be forced out of business --
>which
>> >means that EVERYBODY would lose their job.
>
>> That maybe so for a very small percentage of business. But if they are
>> running on such a small margin of profit it would be best if they did
>> close shop.
>
>Raising minimum wage would harm ALL businesses.
Nope. Raising the minimum wage allows people to spend more at
Mcdonalds once in awhile. Gee they will even sell more cheese burgers
and fries.
>
>> >You take the company to court like I did.  And I won.
>> >
>> >Not all lawyers.  There's legal aid, some lawyers work on a percentage
>> >basis...
>
>> My daughter has been there and done that. Legal aid will not accept
>> that type of case and every lawyer we called in Edmonton would not
>> accept the case without money up front. Do you know why? Because it
>> was not a $100,000/yr job. That was right from the mouth of one the
>> lawyers we called.
>> So who else to defend the employee when all that fails?
>
>You have to decide if the court battle is worth it -- if the result is more
>than the lawyer's fee, it's worth it.
I can see you did not know what you talking about again. That option
is only the well off. For the average worker it is no option at all.
But get a union in and the employee will not need worry about wrongful
dismissals. The union will take up the fight.
>
>> >I'm not afraid of any of that: because in that situation, I'd ensure that
>I
>> >had an extremely safe workplace (which exceeded the safety standards by a
>> >long shot), pay people what they're worth (which, when they're good, can
>be
>> >far higher than a union would get), and give good benefits.
>
>> May you would ,but countless others would not.
>
>Then countless others would fail.  Countless others DO fail.  Most of them
>run bad businesses.
>
>> If they were all good corporate citizens the need for unions would not be
>needed. But
>> unfortunately that time has never come.
>> Oh and by the way, I do not believe every company needs a union. There
>> still are some good companies out there who truely believe and
>> practice your last example. Those do not need unions. But to the many
>> others out there who do not give a shit about there employees, the
>> labor rules, the enviroment etc they need a union.
>
>Companies that are union-free do better business, treat their employees
>better, and generally have better quality products.  Union shops are more
>likely to build crap than non-union shops.
Now that is a load of crap. What prof taught you that? Or is it out of
the Young Reformers hand book?
Unionized companies do business in the same manner that non-union do.
Non-union generally pay less, give less benefits and usually have
products of same quality. 
You know the little sign that non-union shops put out on the street
corner saying "We are hiring. Union rates paid" It means they have
increased their wages to match union shops. It is the only way they
can draw good tradesmen to their business. 


Tell you what. Once you get out of school, Come into the real world
for 10 years in Alberta's service companies. Maybe even work on a rig
or 2. Until you have those types of experiences your words are
meaningless. Just the rants of a college kid who has no real world
experiences yet. 
And remember, many of us do not wish Canada to become the Mexico of
the north.
 
Get decent pay for your days work. UNIONIZE

>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>What have YOU done to bust a union today?
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Work better: Work union-free.
>
>Steven C. Britton
>Calgary
>
>www.cadvision.com/sbritton
>
>

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 03:14:25
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 04:48:29
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

> :>COO for NT is way lower than either OS/2 or Win9x (you can easily lock
down
> :>the configuration against changes, deliberate or accidental); it's a
really
> :>viable corporate system at this point and still way cheaper than this
product.
> 
> Show us something to back up your claims that Cost of Ownership is lower for
> NT that OS/2.  NT requrires more hardware than OS/2 and more support people
> per x number of users than OS/2.  There are banks using OS/2 that won't drop
> it for NT because banks hate spending money and if they switched to NT, they
> would need 3-4 times the number of support personnel and ALL new hardware
> from servers to desktops.

Unfortunately I have been unable to find a single TCO number for OS/2.  I
found a lot for various Windows systems, but this article is the most
informative:

http://www2.computerworld.com/home/online9697.nsf/All/971216gartner1B35A

Maybe you can dig up Gartner's numbers for OS/2?  That would be helpful.  I
would especially like it if you could find something that shows that NT
requires 300% more support people.  Frankly speaking I think you're confusing
NT with Win9x.

Assuming that you're going to have as hard a time finding this info as I did,
let's analyze where the systems differ in terms of cost so that we can at
least make some guesses as to relative expenditure.

Capital costs are very similar between all of these systems.  Back around the
end of 1995 when NT started to be a viable business OS you were talking about
$300 or so difference per seat (that's the extra RAM you needed for NT versus
OS/2, at about $10/MB, which is what I paid retail at the time).  Today that
difference is around $40.

OS costs are lowest for Windows; $50 or so for Windows 9x preloaded, $150 for
NT preloaded (most vendors sell NT upgrades for $100).  OS/2 can't be found
preloaded from any significant hardware vendor so you're looking at something
like $250 per seat (including the $50 you had to spend on Windows 9x because
of the monopoly arrangement).  If you're buying Windows aftermarket you're
talking about $150 for Win9x ($90 if you already have Win3.1), $200 for OS/2,
and $215 for NT.  Not a hell of a lot of difference there even full retail.

Application software costs are harder to gauge, but Windows has economies of
scale and so much competition that prices tend to be better than anywhere
else.  For the sake of argument let's just call that a wash.

So far we've come up pretty much dead even for OS/2 and NT in terms of capital
costs: more expensive hardware for NT, more expensive OS for OS/2, assuming
you are buying new hardware and get NT preloaded.  If you aren't -- and I
really don't mind going worst case here -- you're talking about $55 or so
difference between the two, or less than one percent of TCO (assuming OS/2 has
TCO more or less in the ballpark of an NC, which I think is optimistic for
reasons I'll explain in a minute).

So where are the big cost differences?  In a word, upkeep.

Hardware reliability is the same for all of these systems, seeing as it's all
the same hardware.  It may suck, but it sucks for all of them.  So that's not
it.

But maintaining the OS and applications -- meaning the number of times IT has
to come and repair a system that somehow got messed up, and the time they
spend doing it -- here we see big differences.

Windows 9x is horrible in this respect; installing or removing software can
hose a system easily, and there's nothing stopping a user from just up and
deleting the OS and/or application installation.  (This is the old "I ran out
of disk space but I found all these files in C:\Windows that I know I didn't
put there so I deleted them.  Now my PC won't boot.")  IMO Win9x is pretty
much a worst-case TCO scenario for the hardware platform.  About the only way
it's manageable at all is if you use something like Ghost that just does a
disk image reinstall -- and all that does is make the fix faster, not the
occurrances less frequent.

OS/2 has the same problem that Windows 9x does in that it's really easy to
destroy system software (that "I deleted stuff" problem again).  Thankfully it
wins big in two respects: most software doesn't go install new patches to the
OS (so installing or removing software doesn't tend to screw other things up),
and there's so little aftermarket software out there that users aren't likely
to be trying to install that nifty new game or screensaver.  So I will
definitely grant you that TCO for OS/2 should be markedly better than Win9x.

But NT ... well, NT is interesting from the POV of an administrator because
you can seriously lock it down such that it's really quite hard to muck with
the system software or applications.  No new software, no modifications to old
software, no ability to delete software.  Its big problem is that you have to
go visit each system to install or upgrade software (that registry thing is
just a cluster-fuck in terms of group system management) though of course
there are some fairly expensive tools out there to minimize that.  (I think
those tools mostly shift the costs from labor to capital, rather than really
saving anything, but YMMV.)  But if you want to install a fixed set of
software and leave it alone, well, NT is real good for that.

My personal choice for administering a boatload of systems is one or another
UNIX system.  It's just so damned easy to lock them down against user fiddling
and to maintain them in bulk remotely.  Unfortunately client software is darn
near nonexistant and the quality of what's there often leaves something to be
desired.  But if you can get software it's really hard to beat the TCO of
something like Linux.

Where you're making assumptions that may not hold is that you believe that
it's cheaper to keep using what you've got than it is to replace it.  It gets
harder and harder to justify that every year as parts and software become
harder to get, and as the cost of new hardware continues to drop.  I'm finding
that seven years is pretty much the limit for spare parts availability for
these things; after that you might as well toss it and buy a whole new system
if it breaks.  That is a great time to look at alternatives, of course, and
there are some pretty good alternatives to Win9x nowadays.

Whether or not one of those good alternatives is OS/2 is quite debatable.  IBM
has seriously curtailed ongoing development of the system; it has been in
maintenance mode for a couple of years, and we've even heard of potential
cut-off dates for that (2006 wasn't it?).  Drivers for a lot of new hardware
are impossible to get.  Very few ISVs continue to build -- or even maintain --
software for it.

About the only high point to OS/2 is that it has a pretty decent JVM, although
it's a year out-of-date at this point (even behind Linux, and that's pretty
bad) and no better than that available elsewhere even ignoring the fact that
it's out-of-date.  Personally I think that the Java-will-save-OS/2 story is
less than thin: client-side Java applications are even rarer than native OS/2
applications and generally much worse quality.

In summary: I think OS/2 has higher TCO than a well-managed NT system.  Not a
lot higher, but a bit.  I think the cost of just maintaining an OS/2 system
will grow substantially over time due to difficulty in replacing failing
hardware.  And I believe that software support for OS/2 is way down and
getting worse, even from IBM.  All of these things add up to a pretty tough
time justifying OS/2 long-term.  And if you can't justify OS/2 long-term then
you're crazy to spend hundreds of dollars per seat buying stuff to let you
shoehorn Windows applications onto it.

Rebuttal?

jim frost
http://world.std.com/~jimf

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 03:43:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 04:48:29
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Kim Cheung wrote:
> >As I read it, they were asking about using it "in the home".  For "in the
> >corporation" I agree with you (that multiple boxes are bad), and in fact
< >I'd suggest that you toss the OS/2 boxes because you can get all the same
> >software on Windows and a whole lot more without the funky bridging stuff.
> 
> Yes, lots of the Windows advocates would love to see OS/2 just disappear
> from the surface of earth.

I think that perhaps you have confused me with a Windows advocate.  That seems
to be fairly common around here; if you're not for OS/2 you must be a Windows
person.  I assure you that's not the case. Personally I advocate whatever gets
the job done with the least amount of hassles.  For me that's Linux nowadays,
though over time it has worked its way through CP/M, MS-DOS, BSD UNIX, SunOS,
Solaris, and NT.  I never found much value in Windows 3.1 or 9x, though the
latter is at least pretty good as a game console.  YMMV, of course.

Pragmatically speaking if there is some application you can't get any other
way than Windows (and let's face it, there are more than a few, which is why I
still run an NT box) then you probably ought to run Windows for it; it'll be
cheaper in the long run than some funky solution.

> We have significant reaction from enterprise because it means that
> they don't have to spent hundreds of millions of dollars rewriting their
> time tested line-of-business applications just so they can run these
> "funky" Windows software packages.

Those "funky" Windows software packages are the whole draw for your product. 
You're basically betting that the customer has so much tied up in OS/2 that
they can't afford to let it go, but they need those Windows applications bad
enough to pay hundreds of dollars extra on your stuff to get them.

That's going to be a real tough sell.  You'd be way more likely to sell
something that emulated OS/2 under Windows, though I wouldn't get anywhere
near that business model either.

I'm just an armchair quarterback on this one but my advice to you is to get
out now; there are much more fun and profitable things to be doing even if you
don't want to get anywhere near Windows.

jim

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  16-Dec-99 10:10:17
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:05
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca write:

[Re: the CPP]
> Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.

Hey Untruth, this "bargain" of yours is the kind of thing that many of your
colleagues take people to court over operating.

It's called a Ponzi scheme, named after a rather innovative Boston
mail-stamps vendor in the 19th century.  It's called a scheme only by the
very polite: in reality is a sham...yet when your holy government does it,
you call it a 'bargain'?

And what, by the way, was the pension return on this 'bargain' of a pension
plan?  Ten percent?  Twenty percent?  Thirty percent?  What incredibly high
return rate did this bargain net us?


-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jmandres@carbon.icb.csic.es                       16-Dec-99 11:04:06
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:05
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: jmandres <jmandres@carbon.icb.csic.es>

Well, I am waiting for VMware or freemware to have an usable system. I
know that VMware does not consider OS/2 as a host, ¨just as a guest?, but
I could try. On the other hand, there is Odin, the Win9x emulation, or
Bochs. Where do you position your development? I understand your
enterprise point of view, but for SOHO or home users, free or cheap
software is a must.

Kim Cheung escribi¢:

> Serenity Systems markets a Managed Client(r) product which provides
> significant benefits to business users. We selected OS/2 as our
> desktop client for many reasons and one is the broad range of
> application support provided.
>
> However, we continue to receive requests to support Win32
> applications. Often this request is in addition to the requirement to
> run Presentation Manager or WorkPlace Shell applications, which are
> frequently Line of Business Applications.
>
> After reviewing the product solutions available, we determined that
> the best response to this requirement would be a hardware
> modification to the workstation, enabling the system to support a
> host operating system and guest operating system. Release 1 of the
> product is anticipated to support an OS/2 host and a Windows guest.
> The OS/2 support includes WorkSpace on Demand and OS/2 V4 (Merlin)
> with support for a Managed Client, run either as a diskless RPL
> client or as a traditional "fat" client.
>
> We have put an overview of this project on our web site
> (http://www.Serenity-Systems.com/), with an associated questionnaire
> which will help us through our product planning. Accessing the
> document requires that you have a valid log-on for the site. You can
> request a log on from Info@Serenity-Systems.com. Once you log on to
> the site, click on the Project Concorde image and, if it is
> appropriate, complete the questionnaire.

--
Jos‚ Manuel Andr‚s
Instituto de Carboqu¡mica, CSIC
Mar¡a de Luna 12
50015 - Zaragoza
ESPA¥A / SPAIN
jmandres@carbon.icb.csic.es or jmandres@tornado.icb.csic.es


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From: larso@commodore.                                  16-Dec-99 10:14:23
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca write:
> In can.politics Steven C. Britton <sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

> > And if the premiums were eliminated, employers and employees could set up
> > matched plans at the same rate and earn a far better return.
> 
> Somehow I doubt it.  A large group plan is certainly more efficient
> on things like this.

Again, Untruth, PLEASE give us the rate on return that this 'efficient'
group plan was giving us.

Was it twice as high as the average R.O.I. over the past quarter century?
Three times as high?
Fifty times as high?

C'mon, I know you know the numbers...

> > Given the nature and way the plan is operated (a national pyramid scam),
it
> > is $600 billion in debt, and on the verge of collapse.  Not even the
recent
> > tax grab will fix it.
> 
> It will be around long after you are gone.
> 
> Which is quote a happy thought.

I'll avoid quoting your happy thoughts, since you apparently have no idea
how the CPP works.

> > In my lifetime, I will put in tens of thousands of dollars in CPP
premiums;
> > and what do I get when I retire? 
> 
> The CPP will provide for the minimum.  You may choose to invest in RRSPs and
> all of that.

Why should he have to?  Why couldn't he put more money into his 'efficient'
government-run pension?

> >                                 A flat income of about $8900 a year -- not
> > enough to live on.  Not only that, but the rate of return on investment is
> > about 1.2%, which is far LESS than the 15% I'm doing on my mutual funds
> > right now.
> 
> That's why the federal government negotiated with the provinces to 
> change the investment strategy of the fund.

Why does your 'efficient' plan need changing?

> If only those provinces were not in the way, this would have been
> done years ago.

Yeah, right, sure.

Face it, Untruth, your party is the party of scum, liars, and idiots.  It
deserves to have every member lined up in the street and SHOT.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: dmhills@attglobal.net                             16-Dec-99 23:07:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: dmhills@attglobal.net (Don Hills)

In article <3858501C.F8780073@frostbytes.com>,
Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com> wrote:
>
>COO for NT is way lower than either OS/2 or Win9x (you can easily lock down
>the configuration against changes, deliberate or accidental); it's a really
>viable corporate system at this point and still way cheaper than this
product.

You can't truly lock down NT. NT might be secure by itself or with many
3rd-party apps, but Microsoft's own products are so full of wormholes
due to their interdependency that it makes a mockery of the "lock down"
concept. For example, there is no way you can run Word while keeping the
user from opening a command prompt and running amok.

--
Don Hills    (dmhills at attglobaldotnet)     Wellington, New Zealand

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: ivan@protein.bio.msu.su                           16-Dec-99 13:53:25
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Ivan Adzhubei" <ivan@protein.bio.msu.su>

In <geribeurzfyrlqvnycvcrkpbz.fmt82f0.pminews@news.dial.pipex.com>, on
12/15/99 
   at 08:27 PM, "Trevor Hemsley" <Trevor-Hemsley@dial.pipex.com> said:

>On 15 Dec 1999 19:11:04 GMT, Pierre Jelenc wrote:

>->On p. 42 the 1st step on administration, to change the root ->password,
>abends with "Process terminated by SIGSEGV".

>I downloaded the latest version from hobbes.nmsu.edu yesterday and got
>this on _any_ command that wanted an argument passed to it. Trashed the
>3.22-26a version and went back and got the other, older, one and that
>worked perfectly first time.

Odd, 3.22-26a works just fine here.

Cheers,
Ivan

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Ivan Adzhubei" <ivan@protein.bio.msu.su>
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: larso@commodore.                                  16-Dec-99 10:07:25
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: larso@commodore. (Lars P Ormberg)

As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw nkennedy write:
> What I have come to see is that Britton is a Canadian Rush Limbrain
> who tells lies and runs for cover when someone holds him to the fire and
> says where is the stuff to prove what you claim. ->letoured
> 
> From what I can see Britton is a 19 year old, snot nosed, second year
> student at U of A.

I'm sorry to hear that you are legally blind.

-- 
Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
mailto:larso@ualberta.ca
The University of Lars:   http://www.ualberta.ca/~larso/

"The way you're bathed in light, reminds me of that night
God laid me down into your rose garden of trust and I was
swept away with nothin' left to say some helpless fool
yeah I was lost in a swoon of peace you're all I need to
find so when the time is right come to me sweetly, come
to me come to me..love will lead us, alright.  love will
lead us, she will lead us.  can you hear the dolphin's
cry?  see the road rise up to meet us its in the air we
breathe tonight love will lead us, she will lead us"
                            -Live, "The Dolphin's Cry"

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cocke@catherders.com                              16-Dec-99 07:10:04
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Michael W. Cocke <cocke@catherders.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:43:00 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

>Kim Cheung wrote:
>> >As I read it, they were asking about using it "in the home".  For "in the
>> >corporation" I agree with you (that multiple boxes are bad), and in fact
>< >I'd suggest that you toss the OS/2 boxes because you can get all the same
>> >software on Windows and a whole lot more without the funky bridging stuff.
>> 
>> Yes, lots of the Windows advocates would love to see OS/2 just disappear
>> from the surface of earth.
>
>I think that perhaps you have confused me with a Windows advocate.  That
seems
>to be fairly common around here; if you're not for OS/2 you must be a Windows
>person.  I assure you that's not the case. Personally I advocate whatever
gets
>the job done with the least amount of hassles.  For me that's Linux nowadays,
>though over time it has worked its way through CP/M, MS-DOS, BSD UNIX, SunOS,
>Solaris, and NT.  I never found much value in Windows 3.1 or 9x, though the
>latter is at least pretty good as a game console.  YMMV, of course.

That being the case, I would guess that you don't have to deal with any 
users but yourself or other computer literates.  At home, I support my 
wife and son, neither of whom are real interested in learning that
ls -l|sort|more is how you do a dir...  At work, I support around 100 
users who think a logon has something to do with a big tree.  Yeah, 
linux would go over real big...  (intense sarcasm).  And before you 
start telling me that I don't know anything about linux, let me tell you
that I was trained at SCO, and was a systems engineer at AT&T.  I know a
little about *nix systems.

>
>Pragmatically speaking if there is some application you can't get any other
>way than Windows (and let's face it, there are more than a few, which is why
I
>still run an NT box) then you probably ought to run Windows for it; it'll be
>cheaper in the long run than some funky solution.
>
>> We have significant reaction from enterprise because it means that
>> they don't have to spent hundreds of millions of dollars rewriting their
>> time tested line-of-business applications just so they can run these
>> "funky" Windows software packages.
>
>Those "funky" Windows software packages are the whole draw for your product. 
>You're basically betting that the customer has so much tied up in OS/2 that
>they can't afford to let it go, but they need those Windows applications bad
>enough to pay hundreds of dollars extra on your stuff to get them.

You're forgetting one thing - there's also a whole class of customer 
that would like (very much) to run one or more win apps, but cannot/will
not deal with the stability issues of windows on an enterprise level, 
the 'virus of the day', a never-ending series of compatibility and 
security problems...  

Personally, I'd love to be able to run a few win apps on either my 
system at home (OS/2) or my system at work (OS/2), but I _CANNOT_ risk 
the stability of 24/7 networks for the sake of that.

>
>That's going to be a real tough sell.  You'd be way more likely to sell
>something that emulated OS/2 under Windows, though I wouldn't get anywhere
>near that business model either.

VMware recently announced this product - Speaking both personally and 
professionally (Did I mention that I'm D.I.T.?), not interested.  That 
approach would trade OS/2's strong points (stability and 
the WPS) for compatibility with some application software that, while it
would be nice to have, isn't as impossible to live without as systems 
that remain online.

>
>I'm just an armchair quarterback on this one but my advice to you is to get
>out now; there are much more fun and profitable things to be doing even if
you
>don't want to get anywhere near Windows.
>
>jim
>

The only reason I haven't answered their survey (yet) is that I'm in the
middle of setting up another LAN and getting it tied into the enterprise
WAN - this is the first time I've stopped working in around 36 hours.

Off the top, if what they propose would let me run win98 apps without 
compromising stability and security (running win98), I'd spend up to 
$300.00 at home, and another $300.00 at work, just for my personal 
systems.  I'd expect to pay more for an enterprise solution, but would 
have to give it more thought before I actually approved it for general 
use.  I need another support issue like I need a lobotomy.


My $0.02



-------------------------------------------------------------------
         Please note:  My Email and web page addresses have changed!
                The new email address is cocke@catherders.com   
                 The web page is at http://www.catherders.com

               Because network administration is like herding cats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------



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From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      16-Dec-99 12:18:01
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:18:51 -0500, Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>
wrote:

>Bob Germer wrote:
>> On <3856F2D8.7C53D352@ibm.net>, on 12/14/99 at 08:46 PM,
>>    Joseph <josco@ibm.net> said:
>> 
>> > Defending MS against left wingers?  Who!?! I never thought of SUN's
>> > Scott McNealy as a liberal let alone a jealous left winger.  I bet he'd
>> > laugh at that slurr being his father was a GM auto exec.  MS's enemies
>> > are conservative corporations in say Utah and companies owned by
>> > billionaires like Larry Ellison and Soctt McNealy.
>> > It's all about money and power between wealthy and powerful
>> > people.
>> 
>> Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Your
>> argument above was the crux of the defense raised by AT&T. It wasn't valid
>> then. It isn't valid now.
>
>While you might have a point with a different analogy, the breakup of AT&T
was
>consentual (ie AT&T wanted to be broken up).  The idea was that 90% of the
>cost of doing business was local and 90% of the profit was long-distance. 
The
>thing they didn't expect was regionalization of the default long-distance
>carrier; they figured they'd get the long-distance business pretty much lock,
>stock, and barrel and it'd be up to the other companies to take it away from
>them.
>
>It didn't work out that way, but you gotta admire the way they managed the
>breakup such that they got all kinds of concessions while spinning off the
>expensive part of doing business even if they didn't get the whole ball of
>wax.
>
>jim


ATT Is still the largest L.D. carrier in the U.S., with profits,
adjusted for inflation, higher than they were the year they were
broken up. And the regionals substantially raised the cost (with
impunity) of having a residential telephone, something ATT was never
able to do.  

EBB

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           16-Dec-99 07:17:19
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <jORXtcYCR8l4-pn2-WlFGyMhBB0eK@SPHERICALBURN.TAMPABAY.RR.COM>, on
12/15/99 at 06:22 PM,
   donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly) said:

> > And BTW, a Ford or Chevrolet set you back $495 list. Of course,
> > you counted yourself a fortunate fellow with a job paying
> > 30 cents an hour (the legal minimum wage; in 1938 Congress
> > raised it to 32 cents per hour. Bonanza, almost a 7% raise!). 

> You're claiming that our Free-Trade U.S. Capitalists (of that Golden 
> Era The Thirties) had to be forced, by Act Of Congress, to pay their 
> workers as little as 30 cents an hour? 

You need to have a sense of proportion, fella. The minimum wage is now
$5.25 or 17.5 times higher. A working person back then had a 1% FICA and
no Federal Income Tax liability. There was no personal income tax in most
states so a worker took home better than 29 cents an hour. A ride on the
subway cost 5 cents or about 10 minutes work. A new car cost $495 or 1,650
hour's work.

Today he or she would have 40 cents deducted for FICA and 5 cents deducted
for Workman's Compensation even if he or she were exempt from Income Tax.
Thus the take-home would be $4.80 maximum. With a subway ride at $1.25, he
or she would have to work better than a quarter hour to ride that subway.
1,650 hours of work would only let him or her buy a new car priced at
$7,920 but there is no such new car. 

A typical doctor's visit in the late 1930's cost $2 or about 7 hours work.
Today its over $45 or about 9 hour's work for the minimum wage worker.

In 1937, my parents bought a 16 feet wide "airlight" row home (called
townhouses today in most places) for $4,995. That would have been about 7
years, 3 months wages for a minimum wage worker since the typical work
week then was 44 hours a week. Today, the minimum wage worker (assuming no
federal or state or local income tax) would only have $72,400 available
which will not buy a new home with 3 bedrooms, living room, dining room,
kitchen, basement, garage, and 1.5 baths.

Moreover, the real estate taxes on my parent's first home are now 34 times
higher than they were in 1937.

Of course, my parents were making more than minimum wage back then or they
couldn't have afforded the home. They moved from what was then a very
"tony" apartment for which they paid $22.50 a month rent. That self-same
unit rents today for $525 or 23 times higher in what is considered a low
income district. Moreover, today's tenant has to pay for electricity on
top of the rent. It was included in 1937. And apartments, unlike fine
wine, don't get better with 60 years of ageing.

Finally, the interest rate on their mortgage in 1937 was a whopping 3.25%.

Remember what I said about constant dollars.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           16-Dec-99 07:44:07
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <385778F8.D71B8A00@worldnet.att.net>, on 12/15/99 at 11:18 AM,
   Forrest Gehrke <fegehrke@worldnet.att.net> said:

> Heh! Since I am older than even your advanced age I remember buying gas
> 7 gallons for a dollar in the 1930's. You even got  a nice water glass
> or could collect the pieces of kitchen ware with each purchase.

And the reason was that the feds and states weren't charging 8 cents a
gallon tax back then! Those taxes were mostly imposed during WW II and
increased again and again since. The station operator was getting most of
the 14 cents a gallon and paying about 12.5 cents a gallon to the refinery
which provided the glasses etc. At the 22 cents a gallon price, the
governments were taking 8 cents in the mid-1950's so the operator was
getting the same 14 cents and the refinery the same 12.5 cents per gallon.

 And BTW, a Ford or Chevrolet set you back $495 list. Of course, you >
counted yourself a fortunate fellow with a job paying 30 cents an hour >
(the legal minimum wage; in 1938 Congress raised it to 32 cents per >
hour. Bonanza, almost a 7% raise!). 

As I pointed out in another post, that bought more house, more apartment,
etc. than today's minimum wage.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           16-Dec-99 07:48:21
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3857d857_2@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/15/99 at 11:04 AM,
   "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:

> Bob Germer wrote:
> >
> > > That's what reality is all about.
> >
> > That is the basis of a Capitalistic economy, the most favorable system yet
> > invented by the minds of men.

> That is the basis of REALITY; the only system that exists.  It was not
> invented by the minds of men: it is just the way the world works.

You obviously never learned anything in school. Unless you are a 4th grade
dropout, you must have flunked history, slept through history class, or
have an IQ lower than my dog's.

Economic systems are the invention of mankind. Capitalism, Feudalism,
Socialism, Communism, etc. are all economic systems invented by men. The
Native Americans didn't have an economic system unless one classifies
slavery as an economic system. The nomads of Africa and the Middle East
didn't have one. No animal population has an economic system.

Until the invention of systems of economy and government were invented,
each family worked out a division of labor and made the tools it required
to build shelter, make clothing, hunt or gather food, etc. Bartering
between families was how goods were transferred between families. There
was no money. The idea of ownership of land is the invention of men, not
natural law.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: l_luciano@da.mob                                  16-Dec-99 11:17:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: l_luciano@da.mob (Stan Goodman)

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:11:44, J. N. Pfisterer <an479@lafn.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:39:23 -0800, Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.) wrote:
> 
> >As an aside, could you, most highly esteemed reader, send me
> >email
> >describing to me the repeating glyph you see in the line
> >underneath
> >my email address in my signature below?  Is it a "C" or an "R"
> >inside
> >a circle, or any other glyph? 
> >
> >-- 
> > ===>  tgal@pobox.com
> >
> >¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
> >InfoBaHn on:  Rockwell, Netscape, InJOY, and OS/2
> >____________________________________________________
> >((( BOXER )))  fassst, 32-bit character mode editor
> >
> >http://www.boxersoftware.com/
> >¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
> >((( InJOY ))) INTERNET DIALER apparatus EXTRAORDINAIRE!
> >
> >http://www.fx.dk/injoy
> >¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
> >((( BLOWFISH ))) ENCRYPTION for users/developers.
> >
> >http://www.counterpane.com/blowfish.html
> >¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸©
> 
> I make it out to be Ks in a circle.  I think it means you're Kosher.  :)

=;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8  You have made my day.

But that's not what I see here. I see a "Copyright" symbol -- a C in a 
circle. But that's kosher too.

FWIW, the "kosher" certification is a U in a circle or a K without a 
circle. Off topic though this information is for this group, we would not 
wish to mislead anybody.

-------------
Stan Goodman
Qiryat Tiv'on
Israel

E-mail sent to l_luciano@da.mob will, of course, not reach me. Sorry.
Send E-mail to: domain: hashkedim dot com, username: stan.


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From: Johannes.Hromadka@siemens.at                      16-Dec-99 12:33:17
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: Johannes Hromadka <Johannes.Hromadka@siemens.at>

Trevor Hemsley wrote:
 
 
> I downloaded the latest version from hobbes.nmsu.edu yesterday and got
> this on _any_ command that wanted an argument passed to it. Trashed the
> 3.22-26a version and went back and got the other, older, one and that
> worked perfectly first time.

I had the same problems.

Now I still use 3.22.16a-gamma on my OS/2 box.

This version is stale, works with apache and PHP3 and also cooperates
with other mysql servers on linux and HP-UIX.

    Hannes

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From: Johannes.Hromadka@siemens.at                      16-Dec-99 12:34:17
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: Johannes Hromadka <Johannes.Hromadka@siemens.at>

Pierre Jelenc wrote:
> 

 
> What version of MySQL should I use, then? And how do I set it up so that
> PHP/Apache can talk to it?

3.22.16a-gamma for OS/2 is a good choice.

	Hannes

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From: andreas.linde@os2.org                             16-Dec-99 12:39:21
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org>

hi

> I wanted to add that I criticized what I found on _hobbes_ and I'm 
>confident that everything I said about the versions available there is
>still true. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to try that 
>archive first.

ok. there you are right.

>
> Would it be possible for you to take the copy that you have and 
>upload it to hobbes? That site of yours is either unreachable, or 
>stalls in the middle of the download. It'd also mean everyone else 
>only has one place to go, instead of combing newsgroups to get URLs.

well, the problem is that for example the ssl version cannot be uploaded
to hobbes, because of legal issues.
I'll mail brian if he can upload the other actual version to hobbes.

> Is there much satisfaction in rebuffing the same thing five times in 
>the same message?

hehe, no.
just wanted mention that I already answered these questions above too.
so I am sorry for that.

>
>Chris Wenham - editor@os2ezine.com
>The views expressed are mine.

ciao

 andreas linde

+------------------------------------------------------------------+
  www.OS2.org
  Webmaster/-designer 
  Andreas Linde
  email: andreas.linde@os2.org
  irc-nick: kerni
+------------------------------------------------------------------+



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From: jstuyck@home.com                                  16-Dec-99 11:40:10
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: Jim Stuyck <jstuyck@home.com>


Dan Casey wrote:

> In article <385787DA.5404BCDE@home.com>, Jim Stuyck <jstuyck@home.com>
wrote:
> >There's a missing file, EPFIPII.DLL, in the recently released free
> >copy of full-function Embellish (see Warpcast for details).  This prevents
> >installation of the program.
>
> Hmmm ... My installation went just fine. Took mere seconds to
> complete, and the program seems to run just fine (without need for a
> reboot). But you are correct in that that file is not present in the
> distribution. It is, however, present on my system, in 7 different
> locations:
>
> 60,062 06-06-95  9:40a  D:\VID_UTIL\VIEWERS\PMVIEW\EPFIPII.DLL
> 45,214 07-20-98  2:00a  D:\...\OBJDESK.$BK\utility\OBJDESK\EPFIPII.DLL
> 45,214 09-26-98  2:00a  D:\UTILITY\OBJDESK\EPFIPII.DLL
> 45,215 01-10-97  1:04p  D:\INTERNET\NETSCAPE\EPFIPII.DLL
> 45,214 11-20-95  5:22p  D:\INTERNET\FTPD\TOOLS\EPFIPII.DLL
> 45,214 11-20-95  5:22p  D:\INTERNET\ACROBAT3\READOS2\EPFIPII.DLL
> 60,062 05-22-95 11:21a  D:\IBMCPP\EPFIPII.DLL
>
> My guess would be that if the file is present, and in a location that
> is already in your PATH statement (or LIBPATH), then it will be used.
>
> Now, then ... my question has to be this:
> If I have several obviously different versions of this file, and their
> locations are in a LIBPATH or PATH statement, am I going to have
> conflicts somewhere that could cause problems?
>

"Yes!"  I had a version of the EPF*.DLLs in a directory, in the LIBPATH,
that was WAAAY older than the other parts of EPF.  Got SYS3175s
each time I tried "install."  That's why, instead of a "selective" copying
of the EPF*.* files I copied all of these from the directory I found them
in, and they were all a few YEARS newer than other copies I discovered
(in a PMVIEW directory).

Jim Stuyck

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From: andreas.linde@os2.org                             16-Dec-99 12:41:19
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org>

hi

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:27:51 +0000 (GMT), Trevor Hemsley wrote:
>I downloaded the latest version from hobbes.nmsu.edu yesterday and got
>this on _any_ command that wanted an argument passed to it. Trashed the
>3.22-26a version and went back and got the other, older, one and that
>worked perfectly first time.

here some help from the apache mailinglist:

--snip--
>Anyone tried Apache/PHP with new OS/2 port of MySQL that was
>recently uploaded to Hobbes? I have made it crash (the server)
>when I tried to access it from Apache/PHP code. Is it somehow
>incompatible with old code and versions used?
>
No.
The new mysql (3.22.26a) uses another socket and you have to tell the server
to use the old socket
with a command line switch like this:
mysqld --socket=\socket\mysql.sock

The mysql utilities though will only use the new socket (the --socket switch
for them does not work)
and to use them you have to restart mysql with the new socket (just dont
specify any socket).

There is also a bug (?) in the pthreads dll that makes mysql trap when you
terminates the server.

I run Apache 1.3.9 with PHP 3.0.12 and mysql 3.22.26a on WSEB with no
problems.

With mysql 3.22.26a there is also a mysqldll.dll that allows you to write
C/C++ programs that
uses mysql. I had to write a few simple codes since ther is no implib
included but it works great.
My invoice app (C++) is now mysql based and could (if I ever would need it :)
use a mysql data-
base over the internet. Mail me if anyone want the code.
--snip--

I hope this helps

ciao

 andreas linde

+------------------------------------------------------------------+
  www.OS2.org
  Webmaster/-designer 
  Andreas Linde
  email: andreas.linde@os2.org
  irc-nick: kerni
+------------------------------------------------------------------+



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From: hans.boer@worldonline.nl                          15-Dec-99 00:12:27
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:28:06
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: Hans Boer <hans.boer@worldonline.nl>

Mark Mellin wrote:

> For pricing and availability, check with Inedllible Blue for:
> 
> AN7LBIE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 R1.5
> - List Price:$472.00 - Our Price:$402.30
> 
> AN6C7IE SmartSuite for OS/2 Warp 4 v1.5 (Upgrade)
> - List Price:$173.00 - Our Price:$152.60
> 
> Still alot of $$ for an incremental upgrade...
> 
> Hope this helps,
Especially when compared to StarOffice 
(initial $ 0,00, upgrade $0,00 and for people
really interested e-mail for my price ;-))

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From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            16-Dec-99 13:23:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Lars P Ormberg <larso@commodore.> wrote:
> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca write:
>> In can.politics Steven C. Britton <sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

>> > And if the premiums were eliminated, employers and employees could set up
>> > matched plans at the same rate and earn a far better return.
>> 
>> Somehow I doubt it.  A large group plan is certainly more efficient
>> on things like this.

> Again, Untruth, PLEASE give us the rate on return that this 'efficient'
> group plan was giving us.

> Was it twice as high as the average R.O.I. over the past quarter century?
> Three times as high?
> Fifty times as high?

> C'mon, I know you know the numbers...

The rate of return has not been high, because of the policy that its
funds be invested in provincial government securities.

As I said, provincial approval was now secured to change this.  And
since the Canada Pension Plan is a joint federal provincial program,
and since no changes are possible without provincial consent, it had
to wait for provincial consent.

>> > Given the nature and way the plan is operated (a national pyramid scam),
it
>> > is $600 billion in debt, and on the verge of collapse.  Not even the
recent
>> > tax grab will fix it.
>> 
>> It will be around long after you are gone.
>> 
>> Which is quote a happy thought.

> I'll avoid quoting your happy thoughts, since you apparently have no idea
> how the CPP works.

It seems you have little idea how the CPP works, and what the benefits
it provides are.

If you did you would not suggest that it is $ 600 billion in debt.

>> > In my lifetime, I will put in tens of thousands of dollars in CPP
premiums;
>> > and what do I get when I retire? 
>> 
>> The CPP will provide for the minimum.  You may choose to invest in RRSPs
and
>> all of that.

> Why should he have to?  Why couldn't he put more money into his 'efficient'
> government-run pension?

Until the CPP came around, people had the option which you would give them.

And most seniors lived in terrible poverty.  But putting together a large
group plan turned out to be very successful.  Something which vertually all
western countries decided to do.

>> >                                 A flat income of about $8900 a year --
not
>> > enough to live on.  Not only that, but the rate of return on investment
is
>> > about 1.2%, which is far LESS than the 15% I'm doing on my mutual funds
>> > right now.
>> 
>> That's why the federal government negotiated with the provinces to 
>> change the investment strategy of the fund.

> Why does your 'efficient' plan need changing?

Everything can be changed to make it better.

But you never have to gut a perfectly good plan and start over with
something which is financially unsustainable, and which will likely
produce far worse results.

>> If only those provinces were not in the way, this would have been
>> done years ago.

> Yeah, right, sure.

Sure.

> Face it, Untruth, your party is the party of scum, liars, and idiots.  It
> deserves to have every member lined up in the street and SHOT.


And to show the tremendous level of your maturity, you resort to the
normal Reform way of winning your argument: calling people names.

> -- 
> Lars P. Ormberg     ICQ#:8827066
> mailto:larso@ualberta.ca

Watching you write, I sometimes wonder what the uofa what the u of a
is doing.  I hope you do not refect what is happening at my old
university.  

-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            16-Dec-99 13:26:06
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Lars P Ormberg <larso@commodore.> wrote:
> As I stepped out onto the Stoop, I saw jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca write:

> [Re: the CPP]
>> Given the large pool of people in the plan, its rather a bargain.

> Hey Untruth, this "bargain" of yours is the kind of thing that many of your
> colleagues take people to court over operating.

Large group plans tend to be the most effecient in this type of
insurance.

> It's called a Ponzi scheme, named after a rather innovative Boston
> mail-stamps vendor in the 19th century.  It's called a scheme only by the
> very polite: in reality is a sham...yet when your holy government does it,
> you call it a 'bargain'?

Its certainly a pension plan based on a pay as you go basis.  No one ever
denied that.  It works because all working people in Canada are part of
the Plan, and will continue to be.


Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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From: ivaes@hr.nl                                       16-Dec-99 14:31:01
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Illya Vaes <ivaes@hr.nl>

"Michael W. Cocke" wrote:
>That being the case, I would guess that you don't have to deal with any
>users but yourself or other computer literates.  At home, I support my
>wife and son, neither of whom are real interested in learning that
>ls -l|sort|more is how you do a dir...

What's more intuitive about 'dir' than 'ls' (or 'dir /ad' than 'ls -lt')?
Not to mention that a good sysadmin can/will araange for everybody that
"magically" does know 'dir' but not 'ls' to have an alias 'dir' that maps to
....   bingo! 'ls -l|sort|more' (BTW, you have to do 'dir /p' to get the
'more' part, so you're not comparing honestly at even this basic level).
And if you like to use "the Explorer" as an example, there are plenty of fine
file managers etc. for Linux etc. too.
Real non-argument.

>At work, I support around 100 users who think a logon has something to do 
>with a big tree.  Yeah, linux would go over real big...  (intense sarcasm).

Sorry, but I am irritated by this attitude in our "IS" support too.
If they (and you) did their work as support well, those users would have to
know diddly squat about 'ls' etc.
*You* OTOH would have to be able to grasp more than just point-and-drool.
The users aren't paid to know about computers, software, etc.; you are.
Of course, many a times "OK" IS staf will just be hindered by management, so
that they can not put any time into setting up a good environment (that will
subsequently be easier and cheaper to support); usually they just present
"Windows" (read "Microsoft") as a prerequisite beyond discussion.

-- 
Illya Vaes   (ivaes@hr.nl)        "Do...or do not, there is no 'try'" - Yoda
Holland Railconsult BV, Integral Management of Railprocess Systems
Postbus 2855, 3500 GW Utrecht
Tel +31.30.2653273, Fax 2653385           Not speaking for anyone but myself

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From: b.l.nelson@larc.nasa.gov                          16-Dec-99 08:23:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bennie Nelson <b.l.nelson@larc.nasa.gov>

"Steven C. Britton" wrote:
> 
> Bob Germer wrote:
> 
> > > I never said that Microsoft wasn't breaking the law.  I said that the
> > > laws were wrong, and I said that Microsoft had done nothing wrong.
> >
> > If MicroSoft broke the laws, which you acknowledge they did, then by
> > definition they did wrong. You cannot have it any other way in the real
> > world.
> 
> I guess you're just too closed-minded to see that laws can, in fact, be
> unjust, which means that someone doing something perfectly ethical can in
> fact be breaking the law.
> 
> In other words, one can break the anti-trust laws without actually doing
> anything wrong.

Your statement here is flawed because it places your opinion of the antitrust
laws above those laws.  Your dislike/disapproval of said laws does not
constitute proof that those laws are indeed flawed.  

However, for the sake of the discussion, let's assume for the moment that
some portion of the body of antitrust laws is flawed.  Which portion remains 
to be demonstrated.  Furthermore, even if some determinate portion of the
law is incorrect, it is incumbent upon the good citizen to obey the law or,
by civil disobedience, to disobey that portion which they can articulate is
flawed.  Understand though, that the good citizen uses civil disobedience
knowing that the penalty for breaking bad laws must still be paid until
the laws are changed.  

In short, disobeying a bad law is still disobeying the law.  This disobedience
should be punished until the law is changed or revoked, else the rule of law
is undermined.

AFAIK MS has not gone on record opposing the antitrust laws as being flawed.  
MS maintains those laws do not apply in their case, because MS claims that
MS is not a monopoly.  

As for MS doing nothing wrong or unethical: the only just reason for
disobeying
a bad law is to obey a higher law.  MS' behavior that has resulted in this
antitrust case is not because MS has been obeying some higher law IMHO.

Bennie Nelson

[remainder of original post snipped for brevity and clarity]

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From: b.l.nelson@larc.nasa.gov                          16-Dec-99 08:35:27
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bennie Nelson <b.l.nelson@larc.nasa.gov>

Tim Rosnau wrote:
> 
> "Steven C. Britton" wrote:
> >
> > Bob Germer wrote:
> >
> > > > I never said that Microsoft wasn't breaking the law.  I said that the
> > > > laws were wrong, and I said that Microsoft had done nothing wrong.
> > >
> > > If MicroSoft broke the laws, which you acknowledge they did, then by
> > > definition they did wrong. You cannot have it any other way in the real
> > > world.
> >
> > I guess you're just too closed-minded to see that laws can, in fact, be
> > unjust, which means that someone doing something perfectly ethical can in
> > fact be breaking the law.
> 
> Could you please enlighten us with an example of somebody doing
> something ethical which is also against the law? (and please don't
> use Microsoft as an example)

It's called civil disobedience.  I can think of numerous examples.  How
about those who helped Jews escape from the Nazis?  I believe it was 
quite ethical to disobey the law by helping Jews at that time.

Bennie Nelson

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From: b.l.nelson@larc.nasa.gov                          16-Dec-99 08:43:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bennie Nelson <b.l.nelson@larc.nasa.gov>

Bob Germer wrote:
> 
> On <3857d857_2@news.cadvision.com>, on 12/15/99 at 11:04 AM,
>    "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com> said:
> 
> > Bob Germer wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's what reality is all about.
> > >
> > > That is the basis of a Capitalistic economy, the most favorable system
yet
> > > invented by the minds of men.
> 
> > That is the basis of REALITY; the only system that exists.  It was not
> > invented by the minds of men: it is just the way the world works.
> 
> You obviously never learned anything in school. Unless you are a 4th grade
> dropout, you must have flunked history, slept through history class, or
> have an IQ lower than my dog's.
> 
> Economic systems are the invention of mankind. Capitalism, Feudalism,
> Socialism, Communism, etc. are all economic systems invented by men. The
> Native Americans didn't have an economic system unless one classifies
> slavery as an economic system. The nomads of Africa and the Middle East
> didn't have one. No animal population has an economic system.
> 
> Until the invention of systems of economy and government were invented,
> each family worked out a division of labor and made the tools it required
> to build shelter, make clothing, hunt or gather food, etc. Bartering
> between families was how goods were transferred between families. There
> was no money. The idea of ownership of land is the invention of men, not
> natural law.

Not true.  The theocracy dictated to Moses by God included a complete
economic system.  It even included antitrust laws.  For example, the year
of Jubilee laws would prevent the unbridled collection of wealth and land,
and hence, power.  Ownership of land and other forms of wealth, including
money were all included in the laws given to Moses.

Bennie Nelson

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From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           16-Dec-99 09:07:18
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <3858d764.3252671@news1.sympatico.ca>, on 12/16/99 at 12:18 PM,
   siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) said:

> ATT Is still the largest L.D. carrier in the U.S., with profits,
> adjusted for inflation, higher than they were the year they were broken
> up. And the regionals substantially raised the cost (with impunity) of
> having a residential telephone, something ATT was never able to do.  

Your mileage may be different, but in terms of constant dollars, even my
local service is cheaper than it was pre-breakup. Actually, my typical
home bill runs about $175 for three lines for local service including many
options (caller ID, call blocking, *69, call waiting, etc.) not available
18 years ago. And much of the current bill is for calls to one of our
daughters with whom we spend better than half an hour a day talking on the
phone. Before we moved here 8 years ago, she was within our free calling
area as were the two people I spend a good deal of time conversing with
via telephone. We moved out from the more populated suburbs to the exurban
area and now pay for those calls.

Nonetheless, my average bill in 1985 for local service was still over $100
for only two lines. That bought far more food, car, house, etc. than $175
does today. I am looking at the paperwork for a car I bought in 1985. It
was a Plymouth Horizon 4 door with automatic transmission, power steering
and brakes, and AM-FM radio. It had cruise control and a heated rear
window as well. The price I paid, no trade, was $4,625 plus tax and
Chrysler Credit financed it for 4 years at 1% APR. Today, the Neon with
the identical equipment would cost me, net of rebate, over $9000 and there
ain't no such thing as 1% financing.

The identical townhouse we bought in 1985 for $88,500 in the newest
section of the same development now sells for $159,500.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: merlins@ibm.net                                   16-Dec-99 05:15:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: Meinolf Sondermann <merlins@ibm.net>


Buddy Donnelly wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:39:23, "Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.)"
> <tgal@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > By the way, it always puzzled me why the Netscape README files
> > require
> > that the "." not be placed ahead of the Netscape paths, like
> > this:
> >
> > LIBPATHC:\USOF\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM;C:\USOF\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM\JAVA;.;
> > ...
> >
> > Any SWAGS?
> 
> If I understood it correctly when it first came up, it had to do with
> the updated version of PMDDEML.DLL that came with the Netscape package
> needing to be found instead of the stock version in \OS2\DLL. I think
> the requirement has gone by the way, with later versions.
> 
> --
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Buddy
> 
> Buddy Donnelly
> donnelly@tampabay.rr.com

On my system I have to keep NETSCAPE as the very first entry within LIBPATH.
If I don't do this, D&D capabilities vanish every now and then. Sometimes
work, sometimes not, sometimes limited ( no D&D to desktop, just to bookmark
).
With NETSCAPE first in LIBPATH, D&D is always there and fully functional.

Bye/2
Meinolf

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        16-Dec-99 14:10:05
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:19
Subj: Re: MO Disk & HPFS

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <noynvevozarg.fmt8rm0.pminews@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, "Alex Blair"
<aablair@ibm.net> writes:
>I am trying again to get HPFS support for a Fujitsu Dynamo 640 SE drive with
>the n512dasd.flt file as suggested by others. All is well when using the
>Fujitsu driver (modisk.sys) except that it supports only FAT drives.
>
>I have tried this on 2 systems but cannot get either to function properly.
>The last attempts on both systems show that a removable device is virtualized
>at boot time. However, the device is recognized as an ATAPI CD ROM drive, not
>an MO drive (or is the n512dasd.flt virtualizing the CDROM drive a second
>time?). What might I be doing wrong?
>
>Here are the pertinent config.sys lines from the home office system in
>(relative) order of appearance in the config.sys file :
>
>REM ** Optical Drive **
>rem BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /SHARE
>BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /ALL
>
>REM ** For HPFS support on Optical Drives **
>BASEDEV=N512DASD.FLT /v
>
>REM /rf Switch for Removeable Media
>REM BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /rf
>
>REM /of Switch for Optical Media
>BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /of /rf
>REM ** I have tried also the /of swith alone **

Where did you see these switches for OS2DASD.DMD documented?

According to my command reference (WSeB):-

 'This device driver has no parameters'

>REM ** SCSI Card **
>BASEDEV=SIGSCSI.ADD
>BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
>
>REM ** Fujitsu 3.5" SCSI MO Disk Device Driver (ver 2.1 US) **
>rem DEVICE=\OS2\MODISK.SYS /R1
>
>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Alex Blair
>ablair@ibm.net
>
>
>

There is another basedev - OPTICAL.DMD. See if that offers you anything...

Also, I've had some 128MB disks for many years and some of those used
HPOFS.IFS - HPFS for optical disks. This is no longer supported, but in
desperation might be worth trying. Not sure where you would find it, though...

--
John

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bd83h@bedford.waii.com                            16-Dec-99 14:16:17
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Steve Drewell <bd83h@bedford.waii.com>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Kim Cheung wrote:

î No, you don't want to use comp and no you don't want to use ANY of the
î directory comparision utility programs.
î 
î COMP does a file by file compare.   That part is true.  But each time you
run
î it, it's a command.com operation.    When you have to walk through 600M of
î stuff, it takes FAR FAR too long.
î 
î Directory compare is not enough - you still don't know if the files are the
î same.
î 
î Damn.   That one program I ran into did it perfectly.

I have to agree that the GNU diff command (diff -rq dir1 dir2), suggested
by John Poltorak in another reply, is a quick and easy method listing only
the files which are different. Testing the diff command here at work, it's
very fast, but then almost everything is fast on an SGI Origin 2000 :-)

Cheers,
Steve

Western Geophysical, Bedford, UK
Tel: +44 (0) 1234 224404
Fax: +44 (0) 1234 224517



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        16-Dec-99 14:28:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <991216140439.42520I-100000@bisv3.bedford.waii.com>, Steve Drewell
<bd83h@bedford.waii.com> writes:
>On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Kim Cheung wrote:
>
>=AF No, you don't want to use comp and no you don't want to use ANY of the
>=AF directory comparision utility programs.
>=AF=20
>=AF COMP does a file by file compare.   That part is true.  But each time y=
>ou run
>=AF it, it's a command.com operation.    When you have to walk through 600M=
> of
>=AF stuff, it takes FAR FAR too long.
>=AF=20
>=AF Directory compare is not enough - you still don't know if the files are=
> the
>=AF same.
>=AF=20
>=AF Damn.   That one program I ran into did it perfectly.
>
>I have to agree that the GNU diff command (diff -rq dir1 dir2), suggested
>by John Poltorak in another reply, is a quick and easy method listing only
>the files which are different. Testing the diff command here at work, it's
>very fast, but then almost everything is fast on an SGI Origin 2000 :-)

Thanks for that vote of confidence :-).

Diff is actually a superb utility although its syntax is a little arcane.

I was trying to find a combination of switches to ignore specific directories
using -x or -X but couldn't stumble across it, so don't know whether such
a feature works.

If anyone finds a way of doing this, please let me know.

>Cheers,
>Steve
>
>Western Geophysical, Bedford, UK
>Tel: +44 (0) 1234 224404
>Fax: +44 (0) 1234 224517
>
>

--
John

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: mas@halo-int.co.uk                                16-Dec-99 13:24:21
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Y2KCLOCK.EXE

From: "Mike Slater" <mas@halo-int.co.uk>

Has anybody had any experiences using the Y2KCLOCK.EXE to replace the
clocksys files for warp/warpconnect v3. This is recommended by IBM because
of possible Y2K dual boot or DosGetTimeDate problems. After performing this
we have seen dates jump 1-2 days in advance around the month end. One
particular BIOS was noted as having this fault by one of my colleagues  (1
May
1996 AWARD 2A59CF54C-00).

Regards

Mike S





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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com                           16-Dec-99 08:50:16
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com>

On <8397m3$q4p$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, on 12/15/99 at 11:19 PM,
   Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> said:

> I can't speak for Steve, but I know I wouldn't spend too much time
> trembling before the intellectual might of somebody who repeatedly calls
> me a "lier".

> "Don't have the brains" indeed.

> Chris J Delanoy

One who judges another by his ability to spell in what may well be his
second language proves he doesn't have any real brains.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: bobg@Pics.com
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.01 Registration Number 67
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bran.everseeking@sk.sympatico.ca                  16-Dec-99 14:01:02
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Re: Smartsuite 1.5 upgrade

From: bran.everseeking@sk.sympatico.ca (Bran Everseeking)

On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:12:55, Hans Boer <hans.boer@worldonline.nl> 
wrote:

|> Especially when compared to StarOffice 
|> (initial $ 0,00, upgrade $0,00 and for people
|> really interested e-mail for my price ;-))
|> 

though in my opinion its worth twice the price or maybe even 100X



--
--------------------------------
advice?   hrmm,  Be your own hero,
conduct yourself as if you are  the
best of divinity and be gentle firmly.
bran.everseeking@sk.sympatico.ca
--------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: ppridgen@oregonvos.net                            16-Dec-99 06:21:13
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Error Codes

From: Pat Pridgen <ppridgen@oregonvos.net>

Since the manuals that I have don't seem to list all of the error codes
that I can receive. ;) Where is a good spot to pickup a comprehensive
list of the error codes? If I hadn't been able to work around the last
one, I wouldn't have been able to come to the news groups to get help.

Thanks, and Happy Holidays.

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: svetter@ameritech.net                             16-Dec-99 09:41:12
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Printer seperator page question

From: Scott Vetter <svetter@ameritech.net>

   I'm trying to use a modified printer seperator page.  When trying to
use the "@N" parameter it results in nothing being displayed.  Any idea
as to why noting is displayed?

   Also, in a printer's properties I have checked the "dialog before
print" as well, but when I print something no dialog occurs.  Any idea
on what's wrong with this as well?

Thanks,

Scott

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(1:109/42)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              16-Dec-99 15:02:01
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 10:57:20
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:

> > I can't speak for Steve, but I know I wouldn't spend too much
> > time trembling before the intellectual might of somebody who
> > repeatedly calls me a "lier".

> > "Don't have the brains" indeed.

> One who judges another by his ability to spell in what may well be
> his second language proves he doesn't have any real brains.

<eyes rolling> Boy, you really got me here, Bob. </eyes rolling>
<sarcasm> Will your scathing barbs never cease? </sarcasm>

Chris J Delanoy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cocke@catherders.com                              16-Dec-99 10:50:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 13:28:01
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Michael W. Cocke <cocke@catherders.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:31:03 +0100, Illya Vaes wrote:

>
>>At work, I support around 100 users who think a logon has something to do 
>>with a big tree.  Yeah, linux would go over real big...  (intense sarcasm).
>
>Sorry, but I am irritated by this attitude in our "IS" support too.
>If they (and you) did their work as support well, those users would have to
>know diddly squat about 'ls' etc.
>*You* OTOH would have to be able to grasp more than just point-and-drool.
>The users aren't paid to know about computers, software, etc.; you are.
>Of course, many a times "OK" IS staf will just be hindered by management, so
>that they can not put any time into setting up a good environment (that will
>subsequently be easier and cheaper to support); usually they just present
>"Windows" (read "Microsoft") as a prerequisite beyond discussion.

The first two sentences say most of it.  It's real easy to criticize 
when you don't have to do the job.  I want to talk to a few users at the
company where you manage the IS dept.



-------------------------------------------------------------------
         Please note:  My Email and web page addresses have changed!
                The new email address is cocke@catherders.com   
                 The web page is at http://www.catherders.com

               Because network administration is like herding cats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca                      16-Dec-99 16:12:22
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 13:28:01
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea)

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:07:36 -0500, Bob Germer
<bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:

>On <3858d764.3252671@news1.sympatico.ca>, on 12/16/99 at 12:18 PM,
>   siberREMOVETHIS@sympatico.ca (E. Barry Bruyea) said:
>
>> ATT Is still the largest L.D. carrier in the U.S., with profits,
>> adjusted for inflation, higher than they were the year they were broken
>> up. And the regionals substantially raised the cost (with impunity) of
>> having a residential telephone, something ATT was never able to do.  
>
>Your mileage may be different, but in terms of constant dollars, even my
>local service is cheaper than it was pre-breakup. Actually, my typical
>home bill runs about $175 for three lines for local service including many
>options (caller ID, call blocking, *69, call waiting, etc.) not available
>18 years ago. And much of the current bill is for calls to one of our
>daughters with whom we spend better than half an hour a day talking on the
>phone. Before we moved here 8 years ago, she was within our free calling
>area as were the two people I spend a good deal of time conversing with
>via telephone. We moved out from the more populated suburbs to the exurban
>area and now pay for those calls.
>
>Nonetheless, my average bill in 1985 for local service was still over $100
>for only two lines. That bought far more food, car, house, etc. than $175
>does today. I am looking at the paperwork for a car I bought in 1985. It
>was a Plymouth Horizon 4 door with automatic transmission, power steering
>and brakes, and AM-FM radio. It had cruise control and a heated rear
>window as well. The price I paid, no trade, was $4,625 plus tax and
>Chrysler Credit financed it for 4 years at 1% APR. Today, the Neon with
>the identical equipment would cost me, net of rebate, over $9000 and there
>ain't no such thing as 1% financing.
>
>The identical townhouse we bought in 1985 for $88,500 in the newest
>section of the same development now sells for $159,500.



When I said residential phone bill, I assumed you understood I was
speaking of base rate. I lived in Texas at the breakup and within
three years my 'base' rate went from $11.32 per month to $29.00 and
two years later was $39.65.  My 'prime time' long distance calls were
roughly the same, with heavy discounting only available outside of
those hours. 
EBB

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bv@bigblue.no                                     16-Dec-99 16:38:23
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 13:28:01
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: bv@bigblue.no (Bj›rn Vermo)

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:14:50, Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com> wrote:

> 
> Maybe you can dig up Gartner's numbers for OS/2?  That would be helpful.  I
> would especially like it if you could find something that shows that NT
> requires 300% more support people.  Frankly speaking I think you're
confusing
> NT with Win9x.

I do not remember the exact numbers, but there was a Gartner survey 
early last year which indicated that the annual operating cost per 
seat could be very significantly decreased by WSOD, and that some 80% 
of the user base did not need more than the WSOD thin client on a 
low-end or old PC or diskless workstation. Managing such a mixture of 
thick and thin clients is quite cost effective, and saves around half 
the operating costs. As somebody remarked, this is why many banks (who
hate unrelability as much as to waste money) stick to OS/2.
> 
> Assuming that you're going to have as hard a time finding this info as I
did,
> let's analyze where the systems differ in terms of cost so that we can at
> least make some guesses as to relative expenditure.

You could always ask IBM - they seemed to be rather pleased with the 
report.
> 
> OS costs are lowest for Windows; $50 or so for Windows 9x preloaded, $150
for
> NT preloaded (most vendors sell NT upgrades for $100).  OS/2 can't be found
> preloaded from any significant hardware vendor so you're looking at
something
> like $250 per seat (including the $50 you had to spend on Windows 9x because
> of the monopoly arrangement).  

IBM may not be a significant hardware vendor where you come from, but 
they are consistently one of the top three in the PC market here - not
to mention that they sell some rather heavier iron, too. As for 
others, I picked up the system I use right now from the shop around 
the corner with no OS installed. Admittedly, it comes from an 
insignificant company called A-Open, but the price/performance is good
and it is easy to run down and complain if there should be anything 
wrong with it.

Checking the mail order catalogs, I notice that the one-off cost of 
Warp 4 is just mid between Win98 and NT Workstation. A minimum NT 
server is cheaper than the WSeB, but if you need more than two CPUs or
a handful users the NT will soon become more expensive. If you compare
ready to run systems, you will also have to include extra management 
and backup software for the NT server. 

If you need more than a handful seats, buying OS/2 "right to copy" 
licences at corporate rates will soon make NT even more expensive in 
relation to OS/2. Using CID installs or WSOD will save a lot of 
installation effort in big networks. I doubt the total picture is all 
that much in favour of NT, especially after seeing who long it took a 
couple of whiz-kid programmers to install NT Workstation on their new 
computers last week.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: chdove@home.com                                   16-Dec-99 16:39:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 13:28:01
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: chdove@home.com (Clive Dove)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:27:46, "Kim Cheung" 
<kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:25:17 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:
> 
> >Kim Cheung wrote:
> >> >This is a great idea. Have you done any projections on "in the home"
cost of
> >> >implementing Concorde? As I see it, it looks a bit expensive.
> >> 
> >> "Expensive" is always a relative term - of course.
> >> 
> >> The "in the home" cost will be determined purely by the qty produced and
> >> that's why we wanted to get some sense of that using a survey.    I would 
say
> >> you shouldn't expect it to be less than a "few" hundred dollars.
> >
> >Keeping in mind that I wasn't able to find any information at all on
Concorde
> >looking at Serenity Systems' website:
> >
> >If the cost is going to be in the, say, $300 range one wonders why you
> >wouldn't just buy a whole other machine to run Windows.  It's not like it'd
> >cost a lot more (or, probably, any more at all once you got done buying
> >Windows and the basic application suite retail versus getting it bundled).
> >
> >Or, more generally: What's the point of an expensive software solution when
> >hardware is so cheap?
> >
> 
> Why?   Because for the enterprise, the cost of the hardware is not the issue
> here.   Imagine having 64,000 desktops that has to have 2 monitors, 2
> computers, and so forth.   The TCO for ONE desktop is high enough - now you
> need to double that?
> 
> Besides, the two "brains" will be communicating with each other at PCI bus
> speed: not network speed.   We intend to make it as seamless as possible to
> the point where it will be pretty much like a Win-OS/2 session within OS/2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Of course it is not necessary to have two machines to run two 
operating systems, it is only necessary to partition your drive to 
provide an extra primary for the second operating system and to use 
the Boot Manager that comes with OS/2.

The real problem that I have, that this program possibly could deal 
with is that my government has written a title search and registration
program that all lawyers must use, but it only works on win95, Win98 
or WinNT, so every time I want to search a title or register a deed I 
have to shut down all running tasks on that machine and reboot to the 
other operating system.


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: bd83h@bedford.waii.com                            16-Dec-99 16:48:14
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 13:28:01
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Steve Drewell <bd83h@bedford.waii.com>

On 16 Dec 1999, John Poltorak wrote:

î I was trying to find a combination of switches to ignore specific
directories
î using -x or -X but couldn't stumble across it, so don't know whether such
î a feature works.
î 
î If anyone finds a way of doing this, please let me know.

When you say "specific directories", do you mean something along the lines
of ignore x:\mydir but don't ignore x:\myapp\mydir?

With the -x option, it looks like you can't specify the path so if you
ask to ingore "mydir" then both x:\mydir and x:\myapp\mydir will be
ignored.

Cheers,
Steve

Western Geophysical, Bedford, UK
Tel: +44 (0) 1234 224404
Fax: +44 (0) 1234 224517


--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: djohnson@isomedia.com                             16-Dec-99 08:43:25
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 13:28:01
Subj: Re: Cool.. Warp 4 no problems with Y2K

From: "David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com>


Khairil Yusof wrote:
> 
> Just did a rollover test and running various apps. My Win 3.1 programs
> like Corel Draw 5 still work and all my other applications work too.
> 
> I'm now typing this on Sat 1 2000 :)
> It's on my old 1997 Award BIOS Pentium 166.
> 
> So I guess, OS/2 users and sysadmin won't have to worry about their
> computers suddenly becoming unusable and will be out partying on New
> Years.

Before you party, be sure you have installed fixpack 5 or greater for
Warp 4 or fixpack 32 or greater for Warp 3.


> 
> Thanks goes out to the OS/2 guys for a great rock solid product and
> also all the OS/2 programmers. All the programs I depend on continue
> to work flawlessly.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>        ICQ : 5783742
>   Homepage : http://hayai.freeshell.org
> PGP Key Id : 0x6FFEFD7F

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From: cstumpf@monmouth.com                              16-Dec-99 12:57:18
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Chris Stumpf" <cstumpf@monmouth.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 03:14:50 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

--snip--

:>Unfortunately I have been unable to find a single TCO number for OS/2.  I
:>found a lot for various Windows systems, but this article is the most
:>informative:
:>
:>http://www2.computerworld.com/home/online9697.nsf/All/971216gartner1B35A

I've been aware of that summary for quite some time.  Basically it says this.
 A Win95/98 PC costs $10,000 per year for TCO and a thin client or NT based
ZAK system costs between $6400 and $7900 approx per year TCO.

:>Maybe you can dig up Gartner's numbers for OS/2?  That would be helpful.  I
:>would especially like it if you could find something that shows that NT
:>requires 300% more support people.  Frankly speaking I think you're
confusing
:>NT with Win9x.


No confusion on my part.  I got the 300% more support people number from some
simple extrapolation of available facts.  Fact 1, Microsoft claims that using
the ZAK NT model, a single administrator can support 200-250 users, 300 max. 
Fact 2, there are quite a few very large banks using OS/2 in a RIPL boot
environment and they have been supporting 1200-1600 users per administrator
for years.  I was being generous with the 300% number as you can see.

:>Assuming that you're going to have as hard a time finding this info as I
did,
:>let's analyze where the systems differ in terms of cost so that we can at
:>least make some guesses as to relative expenditure.


--snip--

:>So far we've come up pretty much dead even for OS/2 and NT in terms of
capital
:>costs: 

--snip--

:>So where are the big cost differences?  In a word, upkeep.

Agreed.

:>Hardware reliability is the same for all of these systems, seeing as it's
all
:>the same hardware.  It may suck, but it sucks for all of them.  So that's
not
:>it.
:>
:>But maintaining the OS and applications -- meaning the number of times IT
has
:>to come and repair a system that somehow got messed up, and the time they
:>spend doing it -- here we see big differences.
:>

--snip--

This is too true.

:>OS/2 has the same problem that Windows 9x does in that it's really easy to
:>destroy system software (that "I deleted stuff" problem again).  

--snip--


There are a few things you are forgetting.  There are plenty of utilites,
commercial, shareware and freeware to lock down the desktop and prevent stuff
like that for OS/2.  Second.  In large environments, the use of remote access
tools like Netop, RSM or PCAnywhere can save a bundle in support time and
costs.  Third, OS/2 can be ripl booted, this is where the OS and applications
are loaded over the network from the server and executed locally on the
workstation.  OS/2 has had the ability for 10 years.  Using RIPL, even if a
user deleted key files, since they are on a server and it is easy to back up,
they can quickly be restored.  Or using a product like WiseManager from
Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
minutes.  Basically the only reason to go to a users workstation is to
replace bad hardware or upgrade existing hardware.  Everything is done from
the server with great efficiency.  

:>But NT ... well, NT is interesting from the POV of an administrator because
:>you can seriously lock it down such that it's really quite hard to muck with
:>the system software or applications.  No new software, no modifications to
old
:>software, no ability to delete software.  Its big problem is that you have
to
:>go visit each system to install or upgrade software (that registry thing is
:>just a cluster-fuck in terms of group system management) though of course
:>there are some fairly expensive tools out there to minimize that.  (I think
:>those tools mostly shift the costs from labor to capital, rather than really
:>saving anything, but YMMV.)  But if you want to install a fixed set of
:>software and leave it alone, well, NT is real good for that.
:>

You pretty much said it all about NT here.  

:>My personal choice for administering a boatload of systems is one or another
:>UNIX system.  It's just so damned easy to lock them down against user
fiddling
:>and to maintain them in bulk remotely.  Unfortunately client software is
darn
:>near nonexistant and the quality of what's there often leaves something to
be
:>desired.  But if you can get software it's really hard to beat the TCO of
:>something like Linux.
:>

OS/2 can do this as easily as Unix.

:>Where you're making assumptions that may not hold is that you believe that
:>it's cheaper to keep using what you've got than it is to replace it.

--snip--

I never made the assumption that it is cheaper to keep using what I've got. 
I stated that OS/2 requires less hardware than NT to accomplish the same
tasks.  Here is a number for you.  I can provide a workstations and the
servers to support them for an organization for 50%-70% less than the numbers
for the NC or NT ZAK solutions in the article you pointed me to.  Here is a
the configuration.  PC or IBM 2800 with 64 megs ram, full sound capability
and no hard drive.  Software:  Office suite, Web browser other software used
for general office use.  Cost per workstation, $200 per month per workstation
on a 2 year contract.  I provide all the support for the workstations.  TCO
for the customer is $2400 per year per workstation.  This number works for a
site with 5-50 workstations.  With more workstations and depending on the
configuration, I can bring that number down to $150 per workstation.  The
beauty of it all is that I can administer it remotely.  Once I have a site
setup, it takes almost no effort to administer it.


:>Whether or not one of those good alternatives is OS/2 is quite debatable. 
IBM
:>has seriously curtailed ongoing development of the system; it has been in
:>maintenance mode for a couple of years, and we've even heard of potential
:>cut-off dates for that (2006 wasn't it?).  Drivers for a lot of new hardware
:>are impossible to get.  Very few ISVs continue to build -- or even maintain
--
:>software for it.

Let's see, Win95 support ended when Win98 was released and WinNT support is
going to go bye-bye when Win2000 is released.  MS stops support for old
products when they release a new product.  BTW, the cutoff date for OS/2
support you are refering to is for free support, you can still get support
from IBM for old products, you just have to pay for it.

:>In summary: I think OS/2 has higher TCO than a well-managed NT system.

You are wrong, as I illustrated above.

:>Rebuttal?

I think I rebutted you nicely.


		Chris Stumpf
		C.S.E. Computer Services
		Computer Consultant (OS/2, Lan, Wan, CTI)
		Serenity Systems Channel Partner
		IBM Certified Systems Expert - OS/2 Warp 4
		

web:    http://cse.anterras.net
email:	cse@anterras.net
phone: (732)496-4699



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From: hemo_jr@attglobal.net                             16-Dec-99 12:06:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: hemo_jr@attglobal.net (Matt Hickman)

In <PmRGDiEz74Uh-pn2-Pckj9ngdgRci@24.64.171.183.on.wave.home.com>, on 12/16/99 

   at 04:39 PM, chdove@home.com (Clive Dove) said:

>Of course it is not necessary to have two machines to run two  operating
>systems, it is only necessary to partition your drive to  provide an
>extra primary for the second operating system and to use  the Boot
>Manager that comes with OS/2.

Novell & IBM had a product a couple of years ago which allowed you to 
run a Netware server and and OS/2 simultaneously on the same
PC.  This was done by partitioning memory, disk space and CPU
cycles between the two OS's.  Don't know if the product is still
available.  They would talk to each other via a loopback driver
and the OS/2 would talk to the network via an NDIS to ODI mapping
and use the Netware servers driver.  You could even run the Netware
UI as an OS/2 window.

I would like to do something like this with a multiple CPU machine 
and support OS/2, NT and Linux all on the same machine at the same
time.  One keyboard on monitor and Three OSes running on the same
PC at the same time each having  pseudo network access to the other,
and having access to the net using a single wire into the PC.

With the CPU speeds, large HDs and low memory costs the way they are
today, something like this could fly.

-- 
Matt Hickman   
     He stepped to the machine and pressed a stud.  A 
     photostat popped out Monroe-Alpha unclipped it and handed it to 
     Hamilton without looking at it.  He had no need to -- the proper data
     had been fed into the computer; he knew with quiet certainty
     that the correct answer would come out.
                         - Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)
                          _Beyond this Horizon_ (c. 1942)

** Join the SETI@home club "The Heinleiners" go to
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_17222.html


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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 10:02:22
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:39:00 GMT, Clive Dove wrote:

>The real problem that I have, that this program possibly could deal 
>with is that my government has written a title search and registration
>program that all lawyers must use, but it only works on win95, Win98 
>or WinNT, so every time I want to search a title or register a deed I 
>have to shut down all running tasks on that machine and reboot to the 
>other operating system.

That's precisely why multi-boot is not acceptable - particularly if the OS/2
side is running your LOB (line of business) application.

Concorde solves that problem.


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From: hemo_jr@attglobal.net                             16-Dec-99 12:26:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: OS/2 1.1

From: hemo_jr@attglobal.net (Matt Hickman)

In <38551CC4.C4428E7B@dca.net>, on 12/13/99 
   at 11:20 AM, Bruce Kitchin <kitchin@dca.net> said:

>If you get the disks from someone (I don't have mine anymore), there is
>one possible problem.  OS/2 prior to version 1.3 was very hardward
>sensitive. The IBM versions ran only on IBM computers or very close
>compatibles. Mine were from HP since I had an HP computer.  So if you get
>them and they give you trouble, you may want to try various computers to
>see if there is one that is more compatible.

I used my MS diskettes on various PC makes.  I think if the machine is
truely PC campatible with EGA emulation for video etc and has a small IDE 
drive, it would work.  I dumped  my diskettes 10 years ago during a move
so I now longer have them.

-- 
Matt Hickman
     The firecontrol computer machines, chewing with millisecond
     mediation data from the analog, decide whether or not torpedoes
     can reach the target, then offer four answers: ballistic
     'possible' or 'impossible' for projected condition, yes or no
     for condition changed by one ship, or the other, or both, through
     cutting power.  These answers automatic circuits could handle 
     alone, but machines do not think.  Half of each computer is 
     designed to allow the operator to ask what the situation might 
     be in the far future of five minutes or so from now if variables
     change... 
          - Robert A. Heinlein _Citizen of the Galaxy_

** Join the SETI@home club "The Heinleiners" go to
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_17222.html


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From: Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca                        16-Dec-99 10:36:00
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Alan Baker <Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca>

In article <%gV54.3904$07.105347@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>, 
jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca wrote:

>In can.politics Alan Baker <Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Except, of course, for the fact that there is no way to guarantee that a 
>> future government might change the benefits the plan will pay out. If 
>> down the road the feds decide they need the money you may find that you 
>> may not be getting the pension you expected and paid for.
>
>Perhaps.  But then that is really up to the provincial governments who
>control this sort of thing.
>
>As you know, the federal government does not unilaterally decide the
>payouts or the premiums.

Other than for Quebec (which has its own separate plan) yes it does.

<http://www.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/isp/cpp/retire_e.shtml>

Please read and quote the provinces' involvement in setting payouts.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that
wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the 
bottom of that cupboard."

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 10:33:13
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:57:37 -0500 (EST), Chris Stumpf wrote:

>Or using a product like WiseManager from
>Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
>minutes.

Urrrr... not minutes, Chris - make that ....seconds...


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From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            16-Dec-99 19:05:02
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Alan Baker <Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> In article <%gV54.3904$07.105347@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>, 
> jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca wrote:

>>In can.politics Alan Baker <Alan_Baker@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Except, of course, for the fact that there is no way to guarantee that a 
>>> future government might change the benefits the plan will pay out. If 
>>> down the road the feds decide they need the money you may find that you 
>>> may not be getting the pension you expected and paid for.
>>
>>Perhaps.  But then that is really up to the provincial governments who
>>control this sort of thing.
>>
>>As you know, the federal government does not unilaterally decide the
>>payouts or the premiums.

> Other than for Quebec (which has its own separate plan) yes it does.

> <http://www.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/isp/cpp/retire_e.shtml>

> Please read and quote the provinces' involvement in setting payouts.

I checked the page you cited and unfortunately the word "province"
is not even found on it.

Perhaps you would best look at the Canada Pension Plan, and in
particular, section 114(4) which provides the answer to the
debate.

I'll quote it below so there can be no doubt that provincial
consent is needed to change premiums.

Coming into force of other amendments of substance 

(4) Where any enactment of Parliament contains any provision that alters, or
the effect of which is to alter, either directly or indirectly and either
immediately
or in the future,

(a) the general level of benefits provided by this Act,

(b) the classes of benefits provided by this Act,

(c) the contribution rate for employees, employers or self-employed persons
for
any year,

(d) the formulae for calculating the contributions and benefits payable under
this
Act,

(e) the management or operation of the Canada Pension Plan Account or the
Canada Pension Plan Investment Fund, or

(f) the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act,

it shall be deemed to be a term of that enactment, whether or not it is
expressly
stated in the enactment, that the provision shall come into force only on a
day to
be fixed by order of the Governor in Council, which order may not be made and
shall not in any case have any force or effect unless the lieutenant governor
in
council of each of at least two thirds of the included provinces, having in
the
aggregate not less than two thirds of the population of all of the included
provinces, has signified the consent of that province to the enactment.

In short, nothing can be changed without the consent of 2/3 of the included
provinces (all except Quebec) having at least 2/3 of the population of 
the included provinces.

-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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From: chris@os2ezine.com                                16-Dec-99 17:13:18
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: chris@os2ezine.com (Chris Wenham)

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:39:43, "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org> 
wrote:

> 
> well, the problem is that for example the ssl version cannot be uploaded
> to hobbes, because of legal issues.
> I'll mail brian if he can upload the other actual version to hobbes.

 I've succeeded in downloading and installing a copy of Russian 
Apache, which advertises PHP support. While I have the server working,
I haven't tried using PHP yet. I can only hope it can talk to MySQL.

 From what I understand, PHP can be compiled as a .dll (dynamicly 
linked Apache Module) that any standard version of Apache above 1.3.9 
can load. If this .dll was available separately I'd be happy. I don't 
care if SSL is included or not.

Regards,

Chris Wenham - editor@os2ezine.com
The views expressed are mine.

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From: rgehrig@primenet.com                              16-Dec-99 10:24:11
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Robert Gehrig" <rgehrig@primenet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:41:39 +0100 (CET), Andreas Linde wrote:

<snip>

>I run Apache 1.3.9 with PHP 3.0.12 and mysql 3.22.26a on WSEB with no
>problems.
>

<snip>

Andreas

Are you running WSEB on a multi processor machine.

Thanks

Robert Gehrig
rgehrig@primenet.com

Brought to you by the letters O and S and the number 2



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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        16-Dec-99 17:39:27
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:15
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <991216162128.42520K-100000@bisv3.bedford.waii.com>, Steve Drewell
<bd83h@bedford.waii.com> writes:
>On 16 Dec 1999, John Poltorak wrote:
>
>=AF I was trying to find a combination of switches to ignore specific direc=
>tories
>=AF using -x or -X but couldn't stumble across it, so don't know whether su=
>ch
>=AF a feature works.
>=AF=20
>=AF If anyone finds a way of doing this, please let me know.
>
>When you say "specific directories", do you mean something along the lines
>of ignore x:\mydir but don't ignore x:\myapp\mydir?

I mean a specific directory tree, such as \abc\xyz, so that everything from
xyz
onwards is ignored.

>With the -x option, it looks like you can't specify the path so if you
>ask to ingore "mydir" then both x:\mydir and x:\myapp\mydir will be
>ignored.
>
>Cheers,
>Steve
>
>Western Geophysical, Bedford, UK
>Tel: +44 (0) 1234 224404
>Fax: +44 (0) 1234 224517
>
>

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From: andreas.linde@os2.org                             16-Dec-99 19:15:13
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org>

hi
>On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:41:39 +0100 (CET), Andreas Linde wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>I run Apache 1.3.9 with PHP 3.0.12 and mysql 3.22.26a on WSEB with no
>>problems.
>>
>Are you running WSEB on a multi processor machine.

no,
anyway, it was not my comment, this was taken from the apache mailinglist !!

ciao

 andy

+------------------------------------------------------------------+
  www.OS2.org
  Webmaster/-designer 
  Andreas Linde
  email: andreas.linde@os2.org
  irc-nick: kerni
+------------------------------------------------------------------+



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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 10:12:12
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:16:35 +0000, Steve Drewell wrote:

>I have to agree that the GNU diff command (diff -rq dir1 dir2), suggested
>by John Poltorak in another reply, is a quick and easy method listing only
>the files which are different. Testing the diff command here at work, it's
>very fast, but then almost everything is fast on an SGI Origin 2000 :-)

When it does the "compare", is it doing a byte level compare of the file, or
just the directories?   Notice that we are not interested in whether certain
file is different (from a size, date time stamp point of view) - we're
interested in knowing if the CD-R is an exact replicate of the original.



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From: merlins@ibm.net                                   16-Dec-99 05:03:24
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Meinolf Sondermann <merlins@ibm.net>


Kim Cheung wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 14:10:38 -0500, Terry Norton wrote:
> 
> >How about PMDMatch?  Compares directories including subs, plus it
> >can save snapshots as well.
> 
> Ha...it's following the exact same discussions....
> 
> No, you don't want to use comp and no you don't want to use ANY of the
> directory comparision utility programs.
> 
> COMP does a file by file compare.   That part is true.  But each time you
run
> it, it's a command.com operation.    When you have to walk through 600M of
> stuff, it takes FAR FAR too long.
> 
> Directory compare is not enough - you still don't know if the files are the
> same.
> 
> Damn.   That one program I ran into did it perfectly.

Hello Kim,

I don't know which program you ran in, but about two years ago I had exactly
the same problem of verifying CDRs. I used an MD5 package found on hobbes or
leo to create fingerprints of each file and redirected the output to file.
Did that for both source and CDR. Now I could easyly compare the two
report files. To make it more comfortable in usage, I built some REXX around
it.

Sorry I can't tell more details, as I can't access my archives right now
(MO drive temporarily out of order).

Bye/2
Meinolf

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From: ivan@protein.bio.msu.su                           16-Dec-99 21:17:14
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Ivan Adzhubei" <ivan@protein.bio.msu.su>

In <etruevtcevzrargpbz.fmuasm0.pminews@news.primenet.com>, on 12/16/99 
   at 10:24 AM, "Robert Gehrig" <rgehrig@primenet.com> said:

Robert,

I'm not Andreas, but I do run WSeb + MySQL on a dual-CPU box and I can't
see any problems, even that file locking bug mentioned in the
documentation. However, this is a development machine, not a production
server and I can't figure out how to test if MySQL file sharing works
properly. If you have any specific tests suitable for this purpose, would
you please share with me?

Cheers,
Ivan

>>I run Apache 1.3.9 with PHP 3.0.12 and mysql 3.22.26a on WSEB with no
>>problems.

>Andreas

>Are you running WSEB on a multi processor machine.

>Thanks

>Robert Gehrig
>rgehrig@primenet.com

>Brought to you by the letters O and S and the number 2



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Ivan Adzhubei" <ivan@protein.bio.msu.su>
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: andreas.linde@os2.org                             16-Dec-99 19:23:05
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Andreas Linde" <andreas.linde@os2.org>

hi

> I've succeeded in downloading and installing a copy of Russian 
>Apache, which advertises PHP support. While I have the server working,
>I haven't tried using PHP yet. I can only hope it can talk to MySQL.

the russian version has some problems, and also isn't available in the newest
release, as far as I know.
one problem on aurora is that apache crashes (on my system) every few
minutes, especially when
running cgi scripts.
it also changes the codepage of the browser (somehow). so if I want to take a
look at a german website after viewing a page running with the russian
apache, all the german "umlaute" are borked.
I really recommend the version from brian harvard. its fast, stable and all
the modules are provided via dlls.

> From what I understand, PHP can be compiled as a .dll (dynamicly 
>linked Apache Module) that any standard version of Apache above 1.3.9 
>can load. If this .dll was available separately I'd be happy. I don't 
>care if SSL is included or not.

then download the version from brian hardvard. he provides one with and one
without SSL.
both are newest 1.3.9 code, and all modules are provided as dlls.

http://silk.apana.org.au/apache/

I already asked him to upload his version to hobbes. no response yet.

OS2.org is running apache 1.3.9 with php3 and ssl support from brian harvard.
I had no problems at all with this version. it's running really great.
Netlabs.org is using the same one.

Regards,

  Andreas Linde



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From: cstumpf@monmouth.com                              16-Dec-99 13:52:08
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Chris Stumpf" <cstumpf@monmouth.com>

I was using worst case numbers.  Using typical number makes our claims too
unbelievable to those that don't understand or have not seen.

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:33:26 -0500 (EST), Kim Cheung wrote:

:>On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:57:37 -0500 (EST), Chris Stumpf wrote:
:>
:>>Or using a product like WiseManager from
:>>Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
:>>minutes.
:>
:>Urrrr... not minutes, Chris - make that ....seconds...
:>
:>


		Chris Stumpf
		C.S.E. Computer Services
		Computer Consultant (OS/2, Lan, Wan, CTI)
		Serenity Systems Channel Partner
		IBM Certified Systems Expert - OS/2 Warp 4
		

web:    http://cse.anterras.net
email:	cse@anterras.net
phone: (732)496-4699



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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 12:13:23
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 13:52:17 -0500 (EST), Chris Stumpf wrote:

>I was using worst case numbers.  Using typical number makes our claims too
>unbelievable to those that don't understand or have not seen.

For the built, worst case CAN take a few minute - but for the rebuilt, it
takes seconds.


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From: tsipple@us.iNoSPAMbm.com                          16-Dec-99 14:01:13
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Cost of Ownership 

From: Timothy Sipples <tsipple@us.iNoSPAMbm.com>

Last time I checked, the math worked something like this:

- OS/2 Warp "fat client" has about a 20% lower total cost of ownership than
Windows NT
- WorkSpace On-Demand (either flavor, but particularly the Optimized Client)
has a
  roughly 40% lower total cost of ownership than Windows NT

These figures represent the average of conservative third party models.  (In
other words, they could be underestimates.  There's some anecdotal evidence
to suggest that.)  The figures seem to be confirmed by what customers tell
us themselves.

By the way, IBM's services arm is very enthusiastic about helping companies
adopt Windows 2000.  It constitutes a large amount of services revenue, and
if companies are willing to spend the money, we're happy to help.  :-)

Some companies obviously choose Windows despite the fact that, on average,
it has a higher total cost.  If the benefits of that choice exceed the
higher cost, for each given user, then it's a wise business decision.  But
frankly we (IBM) would (generally :-)) like to see technology costs headed
lower, not higher.  Network computing and e-business is in large part about
lowering costs.

Chris Stumpf wrote:
> :>COO for NT is way lower than either OS/2 or Win9x (you can easily lock
down
> :>the configuration against changes, deliberate or accidental); it's a
really
> :>viable corporate system at this point and still way cheaper than this
product.
> Show us something to back up your claims that Cost of Ownership is lower for
> NT that OS/2.  NT requrires more hardware than OS/2 and more support people
> per x number of users than OS/2.  There are banks using OS/2 that won't drop
> it for NT because banks hate spending money and if they switched to NT, they
> would need 3-4 times the number of support personnel and ALL new hardware
> from servers to desktops.

-- 
Timothy Sipples
IBM Network Computing Software
Chicago, Illinois
Web: http://www.satdirect.com/aviation

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From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com                              16-Dec-99 19:47:12
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com (Brad Benson)

"Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> wrote:

] On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:57:37 -0500 (EST), Chris Stumpf wrote:
] 
] >Or using a product like WiseManager from
] >Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
] >minutes.
] 
] Urrrr... not minutes, Chris - make that ....seconds...
] 

How is that possible?  Virtually all PCs take at least a minute to
boot from the time you press the power switch.  If you're excluding
the time needed to boot the operating system, load the disaster
recovery software, etc. then maybe it's possible.




Cheers,

Brad
replace "spamtrap" with "benson" in my reply address

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From: cstumpf@monmouth.com                              16-Dec-99 15:34:17
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Chris Stumpf" <cstumpf@monmouth.com>

It's possible with a piece of software called WiseManager from Serenity
Systems.  Basically it is a graphical managment tool to make dealing with
RIPL booted workstations a simple drag and drop operation.  And by simple, I
mean simple.  Need to install a new email client on 30,000 machines, just
setup the program on the server and drag and drop it once.  It is now
installed on all workstations.  Rebuilding a messedup machine is a simple
menu item mouse click.  Boot time over the network is much faster than from a
hard disk due to caching.  Give me a call if you need more information my
number is in my sig.


On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:47:25 GMT, Brad Benson wrote:

:>] 
:>
:>How is that possible?  Virtually all PCs take at least a minute to
:>boot from the time you press the power switch.  If you're excluding
:>the time needed to boot the operating system, load the disaster
:>recovery software, etc. then maybe it's possible.
:>


		Chris Stumpf
		C.S.E. Computer Services
		Computer Consultant (OS/2, Lan, Wan, CTI)
		Serenity Systems Channel Partner
		IBM Certified Systems Expert - OS/2 Warp 4
		

web:    http://cse.anterras.net
email:	cse@anterras.net
phone: (732)496-4699



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From: mbcc1NOmbSPAM@attglobal.net.invalid               16-Dec-99 13:38:09
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: MikeB <mbcc1NOmbSPAM@attglobal.net.invalid>

I have IBM 2.1 and copied diskettes for 2.11 if you're not
able to obtain copies from IBM.  Will either of these help?


* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related 
Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 12:40:05
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:47:25 GMT, Brad Benson wrote:

>How is that possible?  Virtually all PCs take at least a minute to
>boot from the time you press the power switch.  If you're excluding
>the time needed to boot the operating system, load the disaster
>recovery software, etc. then maybe it's possible.

Brad,

We are talking about the 'rebuid' time - not boot time.


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From: kenames@earthlink.net                             16-Dec-99 19:08:02
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: kenames@earthlink.net

Does MySQL have a client for OS/2 or an ODBC driver I can use to 
access the Mysql server running on a linux box?
On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:15:46, rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) wrote:

> 
> Is there an OS/2 MySQL server? I found some hints of MSQL, but that won't
> do as I need to develop a database that will eventually run on MySQL on
> a Unix platform.
> 
> Pierre
> -- 
> Pierre Jelenc                  | www.mp3.com/cucumbers  www.mp3.com/pawnshop
>                                | www.cdbaby.com/buy/rawkinder.htm
> The New York City Beer Guide   | Home Office Records http://www.web-ho.com
>    http://www.nycbeer.org      | www.mp3.com/jeniferjackson



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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 12:17:21
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 05:03:49 +0100, Meinolf Sondermann wrote:

>Hello Kim,
>
>I don't know which program you ran in, but about two years ago I had exactly
>the same problem of verifying CDRs. I used an MD5 package found on hobbes or
>leo to create fingerprints of each file and redirected the output to file.

That must be IT!!!!   MD5!!!!    I am going to go look....   thanks.




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From: sjaniska@inet.hr                                  16-Dec-99 21:43:22
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: MO Disk & HPFS

From: "Sasa Janiska" <sjaniska@inet.hr>

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:42:58 -0500 (EST), Alex Blair wrote:

>I am trying again to get HPFS support for a Fujitsu Dynamo 640 SE drive with
>the n512dasd.flt file as suggested by others. All is well when using the
>Fujitsu driver (modisk.sys) except that it supports only FAT drives.
>

Here is that what works perfectly in my setup (both FAT and HPFS).
...
BASEDEV=XDFLOPPY.FLT
BASEDEV=N512DASD.FLT /v
BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /of /rf
...
BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
BASEDEV=AHA152X.ADD 
REM (I'm using Fujitsu drive connected to Adaptec 1460 PCMCIA adapter)
...
BASEDEV=PCMCIA.SYS /P
BASEDEV=SS2PCIC2.SYS

>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>REM ** SCSI Card **
>BASEDEV=SIGSCSI.ADD
>BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
Have you tried to change this into 
BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
BASEDEV=SIGSCSI.ADD ?

I assume you have proper OS2DASD?
SIncerely,
Sasa



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From: wadsack@ibm.net                                   16-Dec-99 11:52:06
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: MO Disk & HPFS

From: "Peter Wadsack" <wadsack@ibm.net>

From the readme that came with Sam Detwiler's newDASD2,

"
------------------------------------
Parameters supported by OS2DASD.DMD
------------------------------------

/RF - "treat Removable media as a Fixed disk"
  This parameter will treat removable media as a fixed disk allowing
   it to be formatted as either FAT or HPFS and allowing removable
   disks to be partitioned.  See application notes above for a
   description of drive letter ordering.

/OF - "treat Optical disks as Fixed Disks"
   This parameter will cause all optical drives found to be treated as
   fixed disks. This will allow the media to be formatted as FAT or
   HPFS. Low level formatting of optical media is not supported at
   this time.  Media formatted previously by OPTICAL.SYS or
   OPTICAL.DMD will not be accessible (as described above in IMPORTANT
   NOTES #2). Media must be FDISK'd in order to be usable.

"

AFAIK, these are still true, despite the current 'no parameters' description.


On 16 Dec 1999 14:10:11 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:

:>  >
:>  >REM /rf Switch for Removeable Media
:>  >REM BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /rf
:>  >
:>  >REM /of Switch for Optical Media
:>  >BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /of /rf
:>  >REM ** I have tried also the /of swith alone **
:>  
:>  Where did you see these switches for OS2DASD.DMD documented?
:>  
:>  According to my command reference (WSeB):-
:>  
:>   'This device driver has no parameters'

Peter

*/------------------------------------------------------
Peter Wadsack <wadsack@ibm.net>
Wadsack Management; Madison WI USA
------------------------------------------------------*/


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From: attglobal.net@attglobal.net                       16-Dec-99 10:20:14
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: Further Bootmanager Questions?

From: attglobal.net@attglobal.net (RJFREEM)

In <384AE487.420D667C@isomedia.com>, on 12/05/99 
   at 05:17 PM, "David T. Johnson" <djohnson@isomedia.com> said:

I was confronted by that same Win install some months ago using a bootable
CD. If allowed to progress, the installation will format the entire disk
as you learned. I have forgotten my solution, but I think I started the
install from a command prompt.

RJF 


>heloman@my-deja.com wrote:
>> 
>> I have 2 physical drives. OS/2 is currently on one
>> and the "other" operating system will go on the
>> other. When I went to 'fdisk' the other hard drive
>> (to eliminate previous partitions/data) I told it to
>> install Bootmanager. When I started win98 install it
>> proceeded to delete it by formating the disk. 

>Formatting the disk shouldn't delete boot manager since the boot manager
>is on a different partition of its own.  The Windows install does disable
>boot manager by making the partition that Windows goes on a "startable"
>partitition rather "bootable."  When your windows install is finished,
>you can re-enable the boot manager by using fdisk and making the boot
>manager "startable" which will make the other partition "bootable" from
>boot manager.

>>Am I to
>> leave an area at the end of the disk (via fdisk) to
>> come back after win98 install with os/2 fdisk and
>> install bootmanager? Since the hard drive that os/2
>> resides on is marked bootable/startable can I assume
>> this attribute must be removed? (AS I had problems I
>> disconnected the data cable to isolate each drive but
>> I want to get it right for the future!). Can anyone
>> give me a step by step (checked the book not to
>> useful) procedure to utilize bootmanager and keep
>> win98 on 1 physical drive and the currently installed
>> os/2 on the other and yet have both get along? Sorry
>> for the long post but don't want to blow all of what
>> I currently have (did make backups....) Thanks in
>> advance for any help......
>> 
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
attglobal.net@attglobal.net (RJFREEM)
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: JSeder-nospam@syntel.com                          16-Dec-99 12:05:08
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 16:52:16
Subj: Re: I need a short CDRECORD tutorial...

From: Jonathan Seder <JSeder-nospam@syntel.com>

> Secondly, what's the big deal with DAO? I'm able to use it, but what's the
> purpose for it? Can you offer up some real-time samples of how and when you
> do use it?

Disk-at-once generates CDs which can be read on just about any computer
with a CD-ROM reader, including older Windows machines (3.1, early Win
95), Unix and Apple computers, and Warp machines without certain
FixPaks.

The UDP recording mode (as performed by "DirectCD") is a relatively
recent development.

As these older machines fade away and the universe standardizes on
current Windows systems (sigh), UDP will increasingly be favored.

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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 14:45:19
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 19:47:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Stephen Untruth wrote:
>
> > And if the premiums were eliminated, employers and employees could set
up
> > matched plans at the same rate and earn a far better return.
>
> Somehow I doubt it.  A large group plan is certainly more efficient
> on things like this.

Bull.

I'm getting between 10 and 12% on my group plan, and I'm getting 15% on my
private plan.  The CPP gives a return of about 1%.

Pathetic.

> > In my lifetime, I will put in tens of thousands of dollars in CPP
premiums;
> > and what do I get when I retire?
>
> The CPP will provide for the minimum.  You may choose to invest in RRSPs
and
> all of that.

Big deal.  If the money I invested in the CPP was put away in my own private
plan, the results would be far superior.

Face it, Stephen the CPP is a dismal failure.

>  A flat income of about $8900 a year -- not
> > enough to live on.  Not only that, but the rate of return on investment
is
> > about 1.2%, which is far LESS than the 15% I'm doing on my mutual funds
> > right now.
>
> That's why the federal government negotiated with the provinces to
> change the investment strategy of the fund.
>
> If only those provinces were not in the way, this would have been
> done years ago.

If only the government stayed out of people's lives, this problem wouldn't
exist at all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            16-Dec-99 22:43:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 19:47:15
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Steven C. Britton <sbritton@cadvision.com> wrote:

> Big deal.  If the money I invested in the CPP was put away in my own private
> plan, the results would be far superior.

Tell me.  What would be the annual cost for you to provide the
CPP benefits other than the retirement pension.

-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        16-Dec-99 21:48:28
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 19:47:15
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fmua8p4.pminews@news.pacbell.net>, "Kim
Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> writes:
>On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:16:35 +0000, Steve Drewell wrote:
>
>>I have to agree that the GNU diff command (diff -rq dir1 dir2), suggested
>>by John Poltorak in another reply, is a quick and easy method listing only
>>the files which are different. Testing the diff command here at work, it's
>>very fast, but then almost everything is fast on an SGI Origin 2000 :-)
>
>When it does the "compare", is it doing a byte level compare of the file, or
>just the directories?   Notice that we are not interested in whether certain
>file is different (from a size, date time stamp point of view) - we're
>interested in knowing if the CD-R is an exact replicate of the original.

Diff has many options and can do either of the above. The -q flag mentioned
is for a quick compare - basically size and date. The default is a binary
comparison.

>
>

--
John

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From: mbatey@cixno.spamco.uk                            16-Dec-99 22:37:29
  To: All                                               16-Dec-99 19:47:15
Subj: Java for Netscape Comm. 4.6.1

From: mbatey@cixno.spamco.uk (Maurice Batey)

Having just installed 4.6.1 I am getting "Unsupported JAVA version" 
(and Javascript) errors with one (bank) site.

Anyone know where to get the latest version, please?


Maurice Batey 

(Change "no.spam" to "." in E-mail address.)

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From: chdove@home.com                                   16-Dec-99 23:28:22
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: chdove@home.com (Clive Dove)

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:02:45, "Kim Cheung" 
<kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:39:00 GMT, Clive Dove wrote:
> 
> >The real problem that I have, that this program possibly could deal 
> >with is that my government has written a title search and registration
> >program that all lawyers must use, but it only works on win95, Win98 
> >or WinNT, so every time I want to search a title or register a deed I 
> >have to shut down all running tasks on that machine and reboot to the 
> >other operating system.
> 
> That's precisely why multi-boot is not acceptable - particularly if the OS/2
> side is running your LOB (line of business) application.
> 
> Concorde solves that problem.
> 
> 

It sounds like what I need.
As I do not have the beginning of this thread, I would appreciate 
someone posting the url where I can get more information. 

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 15:38:21
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:28:45 GMT, Clive Dove wrote:

>It sounds like what I need.
>As I do not have the beginning of this thread, I would appreciate 
>someone posting the url where I can get more information. 

http://www.os2ss.com/warpcast/1999_Dec_10.html - Project Concorde - plan to
run Win32 apps under OS/2



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From: rcpj@panix.com                                    16-Dec-99 22:29:23
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc)

Andreas Linde <andreas.linde@os2.org> writes:
> 
> here some help from the apache mailinglist:
> 
> The new mysql (3.22.26a) uses another socket and you have to tell the
> server to use the old socket with a command line switch like this:
> mysqld --socket=\socket\mysql.sock

I can't use it naked like this, I have to copy the command line from the
MySQL Server object created by the installation script; then I get the
following:

[D:\mysql2-3.22.26a\bin]mysqld.exe --basedir=D:\mysql2-3.22.26a
  --datadir=D:\mysql2-3.22.26a\data --socket=\socket\mysql.sock

D:\MYSQL2-3.22.26A\BIN\MYSQLD.EXE: ready for connections

It looks like I can connect now with the socket trick. At least the PHP
script can return a non-zero value from mysql_connect...

> The mysql utilities though will only use the new socket (the --socket switch
> for them does not work)
> and to use them you have to restart mysql with the new socket (just dont
> specify any socket).

That's for the mysql client as well as mysqladmin? So the thing is to
switch between the two set-ups depending on whether the system is used
through Apache or directly?

Some progress is better than no progress at all.

Pierre
-- 
Pierre Jelenc                  | www.mp3.com/cucumbers  www.mp3.com/pawnshop
                               | www.cdbaby.com/buy/rawkinder.htm
The New York City Beer Guide   | Home Office Records http://www.web-ho.com
   http://www.nycbeer.org      | www.mp3.com/jeniferjackson

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From: rgehrig@primenet.com                              16-Dec-99 17:14:10
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: MySQL

From: "Robert Gehrig" <rgehrig@primenet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:17:29 +0300, Ivan Adzhubei wrote:

>In <etruevtcevzrargpbz.fmuasm0.pminews@news.primenet.com>, on 12/16/99 
>   at 10:24 AM, "Robert Gehrig" <rgehrig@primenet.com> said:
>
>Robert,
>
>I'm not Andreas, but I do run WSeb + MySQL on a dual-CPU box and I can't
>see any problems, even that file locking bug mentioned in the
>documentation. However, this is a development machine, not a production
>server and I can't figure out how to test if MySQL file sharing works
>properly. If you have any specific tests suitable for this purpose, would
>you please share with me?
>
>Cheers,
>Ivan

Ivan

No I am still looking into this area myself.

I have had trouble running MySQL on a Warp Server Advanced SMP machine.

I get too many open files error.

Maybe they changed the SMP on WSEB so it will work with emx.

Need to update one of my Warp Server Advanced SMP licences to WSEB.


Robert Gehrig
rgehrig@primenet.com

Brought to you by the letters O and S and the number 2



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From: jim.danvers@mindex.com                            16-Dec-99 18:56:05
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: 2 Questions:  Video Driver & SendMail

From: Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com>

Thanks again for your feedback Lorne.  I dnld'd the drivers from the site that
you posted and it is working pretty well.  Turns out that the board that I
have uses a "rendition" chipset and I am only able to use the "Generic" mode
of the IBM gradd driver - I can get 1024*768 @16 million resolution but there
is no acceleration, and it shows in some respects.  Ie:  I shouldn't be able
to watch a screenfull of files scroll by when I do a "dir" command at a cmd
prompt - I would expect the display to be a little snappier than what it is.
The box is an intel 233mmx w/128 meg of ram, and the video card has 4 meg on
it.  :(  I tried something called "SciTech Display Doctor" which is supposed
to support this chipset, but it only made "bad things" happen to my box.  I
wound up reverting back to plain vanilla vga, and then re-installing the IBM
Gradd driver.  Upon re-reading your post, I think perhaps I'll go out and try
to locate that GENRadd one.  Maybe I'll have better luck with that - but maybe
not either.  We'll see.  Also thanks for the info regarding the sendmail thing
- thats kinda annoying.  <grin>

-=- J.D. -=-


Lorne Sunley wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:02:38, Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi folks...
> >
> > I have been playing around w/Warp V4 on a spare machine for a little
> > over a week or so now (on & off again as time would permit) and have
> > finally taken "the plunge" and installed it on both of my machines here
> > @home.  (I'm still dual booting one of 'em though so's that I can get
> > back to Win95 where I have a much higher "comfort zone").
> >
> > Question(s):
> >
> > (1)  I have both boxes running Warp V4 FP9.  I had to go into the TCPIP
> > settings and configure the local hosts name lookup (when no real
> > nameserver is available) so that I could ping the other machines in the
> > house.  Upon exiting the IP cfg thing though, it always asks me
> > something about having sendmail start automatically for use
> > w/UltiMail...   I don't plan on using this mail package - how can I turn
> > this send mail thing off other that CTRL+Esc'ing to bring it to the
> > desktop and then CTRL+C'ing it??  I don't ~need~ to have that thing
> > running do I?  9I don't believe so....)
>
> Sendmail is only necessary if you are using UltiMail for E-Mail
> on the machine. UltiMail uses sendmail in "server" mode for
> processing outgoing mail. Usually you can tell it NOT to
> auto start sendmail. (of course you do have to tell it that
> every time.... :-)
>
> The startup of sendmail is done in the TCPSTART.CMD
> file that lives in the \TCPIP\BIN directory. It's a normal
> CMD file so you can just REM the line that starts sendmail.
>
> >
> > (2)  The first box that I have OS/2 on is an old Compaq Deskpro XL 5120
> > that I'm using strictly as a "file server" - everything on it works
> > outstandingly (although I couldn't get the compaq business audio to
> > work, but no biggie.... )  The second box is also working great as well,
> > although I do have one issue - I'm hoping to locate a video driver for
> > the Diamond Stealth II S220 video card that I have in this box.  I
> > believe that it is an S3 (Virge??) chipset on the card - its definately
> > a PCI board - that much I do know.  Anyone know where I might be able to
> > locate a good driver for this card?  I would like to be able to get
> > 1024*768 @32k colors or better out of it.  I have "heard" (read)
> > something about "GenGRADD" - what is this?  Is it, like freeware
> > (preferably!)?
>
> The IBM GRADD drivers provide support for the S3 Virge
> chipset (and others). If the specific chipset is not supported
> the GENGRADD GENeral GRADD varient supports VESA
> BIOS compliant SVGA cards.
>
> You can obtain the GRADD drivers from
>
> URL
>
> ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/ps/products/os2/videopak/graddbb/gradd080.e
> xe
>
> That should be one line if it wraps.
>
> >
> > Enough for now - appreciate any assistance that anyone may be able to
> > provide!
>
> Have fun
>
> --
>
> Lorne Sunley

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 20:55:19
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Don Hills wrote:
> 
> In article <3858501C.F8780073@frostbytes.com>,
> Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com> wrote:
> >
> >COO for NT is way lower than either OS/2 or Win9x (you can easily lock down
> >the configuration against changes, deliberate or accidental); it's a really
> >viable corporate system at this point and still way cheaper than this
product.
> 
> You can't truly lock down NT. NT might be secure by itself or with many
> 3rd-party apps, but Microsoft's own products are so full of wormholes
> due to their interdependency that it makes a mockery of the "lock down"
> concept. For example, there is no way you can run Word while keeping the
> user from opening a command prompt and running amok.

Sure you can.  You can disable the ability for them to run CMD.EXE.  But I was
thinking of locking it down by making the system and applications directories
non-writable and non-deletable.  They can go to town on the machine and still
not screw up the configuration.

jim

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From: chris.hoffmann@bigfoot.com                        17-Dec-99 02:01:16
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: chris.hoffmann@bigfoot.com (Chris Hoffmann)

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:06:49 -0600, hemo_jr@attglobal.net (Matt
Hickman) wrote:

>In <PmRGDiEz74Uh-pn2-Pckj9ngdgRci@24.64.171.183.on.wave.home.com>, on
12/16/99 
>   at 04:39 PM, chdove@home.com (Clive Dove) said:
>
>>Of course it is not necessary to have two machines to run two  operating
>>systems, it is only necessary to partition your drive to  provide an
>>extra primary for the second operating system and to use  the Boot
>>Manager that comes with OS/2.
>
>Novell & IBM had a product a couple of years ago which allowed you to 
>run a Netware server and and OS/2 simultaneously on the same
>PC.  This was done by partitioning memory, disk space and CPU
>cycles between the two OS's.  Don't know if the product is still
>available.  They would talk to each other via a loopback driver
>and the OS/2 would talk to the network via an NDIS to ODI mapping
>and use the Netware servers driver.  You could even run the Netware
>UI as an OS/2 window.
>
>I would like to do something like this with a multiple CPU machine 
>and support OS/2, NT and Linux all on the same machine at the same
>time.  One keyboard on monitor and Three OSes running on the same
>PC at the same time each having  pseudo network access to the other,
>and having access to the net using a single wire into the PC.
>
>With the CPU speeds, large HDs and low memory costs the way they are
>today, something like this could fly.

I don't know if you've seen VMWare (www.vmware.com) - it's a "soft"
solution in that it emulates a platform for a "guest" OS to run within
a "Host" OS. Currently it's available for Linux host (allowing all Win
flavours amongst others as guests) and WinNT host (allowing Linux,
Win9x amonst others) as guests.

There is a note on the web site with words to the effect that if
enough interest is shown that they'll consider making OS/2 available
as a guest OS.

With WinNT4 on a single PIII 450, I can run Win95 comfortably in a
window, or fullscreen which is almost indistinguishable from a native
boot.

FWIW

Regards,

Chris Hoffmann.
"We got our eyes on the firmament, hands on the armaments,
 Heads full of arguments and words for our monuments" - 
Midnight Oil: 'Hercules'

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 21:26:11
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

"Michael W. Cocke" wrote:
> That being the case, I would guess that you don't have to deal with any
> users but yourself or other computer literates.  At home, I support my
> wife and son, neither of whom are real interested in learning that
> ls -l|sort|more is how you do a dir...

Actually "dir" is how you do a dir on Linux, there's an alias right out of the
box, but practically speaking there is a reasonably good GUI file manager in
KDE.  It may be hard for a lot of people to believe but you can actually do a
whole lot of work on your typical Linux system without ever touching a command
line.  I use my Linux desktop pretty much the same as I always used my Windows
desktop -- hell, KDE is practically a knockoff.

> At work, I support around 100
> users who think a logon has something to do with a big tree.  Yeah,
> linux would go over real big...  (intense sarcasm).  And before you
> start telling me that I don't know anything about linux, let me tell you
> that I was trained at SCO, and was a systems engineer at AT&T.  I know a
> little about *nix systems.

I wouldn't say something like that unless you proved to me that you were
confused.  Obviously you're not, although perhaps your knowledge of the
interfaces is a little dated.

I think you're stretching things to say that everyone would rebel because they
had to type in a user name and password; they have to do that with pretty much
any networking system out there.  There are certainly going to be some issues
but they're no worse than teaching someone how to do basic things with WPS and
typical GUI applications.  It's all basically the same stuff.

> >Those "funky" Windows software packages are the whole draw for your
product.
> >You're basically betting that the customer has so much tied up in OS/2 that
> >they can't afford to let it go, but they need those Windows applications
bad
> >enough to pay hundreds of dollars extra on your stuff to get them.
> 
> You're forgetting one thing - there's also a whole class of customer
> that would like (very much) to run one or more win apps, but cannot/will
> not deal with the stability issues of windows on an enterprise level,
> the 'virus of the day', a never-ending series of compatibility and
> security problems...

I'm having a hard time seeing why it is that you wouldn't have to deal with
these same problems in the emulation system.  Maybe they'd be more contained,
but it strikes me that what you're really doing is buying into both Windows
support headaches and OS/2 support headaches -- plus whatever extra support
headaches that you get from the emulation package.

> Personally, I'd love to be able to run a few win apps on either my
> system at home (OS/2) or my system at work (OS/2), but I _CANNOT_ risk
> the stability of 24/7 networks for the sake of that.

If you're under the assumption that you're immune from virii et al because
you're not running Windows then you're making a mistake.  OS/2 has few viruses
not because it's hard to make them (there's absolutely nothing harder about
writing an OS/2 virus than a Win9x virus) but because there are so few OS/2
users that it's not interesting.  OS/2 still lacks the basic features
(particularly filesystem security) necessary to stop a virus or worm
intrusion.

> >That's going to be a real tough sell.  You'd be way more likely to sell
> >something that emulated OS/2 under Windows, though I wouldn't get anywhere
> >near that business model either.
> 
> VMware recently announced this product - Speaking both personally and
> professionally (Did I mention that I'm D.I.T.?), not interested.
[...]
> Off the top, if what they propose would let me run win98 apps without
> compromising stability and security (running win98), I'd spend up to
> $300.00 at home, and another $300.00 at work, just for my personal
> systems.  I'd expect to pay more for an enterprise solution, but would
> have to give it more thought before I actually approved it for general
> use.  I need another support issue like I need a lobotomy.

I think you've just proven my point.  Sure, the ability to run some Windows
apps would be valuable, but not if you got extra headaches in the mix.  And
let's face it, you're going to get Windows headaches if you're running any
kind of a Windows environment -- even an emulated one.  Plus whatever problems
you already had, plus whatever problems the emulator has.

I've used products like these for more than a decade and a half and while they
sometimes have their uses they do not tend to work as well as a native
solution -- and they tend to cost more, too.  If you need the application bad
enough you should run it native.

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 21:32:22
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

"Bj›rn Vermo" wrote:
> > Maybe you can dig up Gartner's numbers for OS/2?  That would be helpful. 
I
> > would especially like it if you could find something that shows that NT
> > requires 300% more support people.  Frankly speaking I think you're
confusing
> > NT with Win9x.
> 
> I do not remember the exact numbers, but there was a Gartner survey
> early last year which indicated that the annual operating cost per
> seat could be very significantly decreased by WSOD [...]

Ahh, but WSOD is *not* a full-blown OS/2!  It's effectively OS/2 in an NC
configuration.  You can do pretty well at reducing NT's COO if you strip it
down to NC capability levels too.

> > OS costs are lowest for Windows; $50 or so for Windows 9x preloaded, $150
for
> > NT preloaded (most vendors sell NT upgrades for $100).  OS/2 can't be
found
> > preloaded from any significant hardware vendor so you're looking at
something
> > like $250 per seat (including the $50 you had to spend on Windows 9x
because
> > of the monopoly arrangement).
> 
> IBM may not be a significant hardware vendor where you come from, but
> they are consistently one of the top three in the PC market here - not
> to mention that they sell some rather heavier iron, too.

It's funny you should mention that.  You cannot buy a PC from IBM preloaded
with OS/2 that doesn't also have Windows.  Most of their systems don't even
offer OS/2 as a preload option at all.  And if you can't get it from IBM....

> Checking the mail order catalogs, I notice that the one-off cost of
> Warp 4 is just mid between Win98 and NT Workstation. A minimum NT
> server is cheaper than the WSeB, but if you need more than two CPUs or
> a handful users the NT will soon become more expensive. If you compare
> ready to run systems, you will also have to include extra management
> and backup software for the NT server.

As I recall we were talking about clients.  I do not recommend NT as a server
system, period.

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 21:58:27
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Chris Stumpf wrote:
> :>Maybe you can dig up Gartner's numbers for OS/2?  That would be helpful. 
I
> :>would especially like it if you could find something that shows that NT
> :>requires 300% more support people.  Frankly speaking I think you're
confusing
> :>NT with Win9x.
> 
> No confusion on my part.  I got the 300% more support people number from
some
> simple extrapolation of available facts.  Fact 1, Microsoft claims that
using
> the ZAK NT model, a single administrator can support 200-250 users, 300 max.
> Fact 2, there are quite a few very large banks using OS/2 in a RIPL boot
> environment and they have been supporting 1200-1600 users per administrator
> for years.  I was being generous with the 300% number as you can see.

Dare I mention the possibility that the banks may not be running a typical
application mix, and that it might be possible that with similar applications
you'd get similar supportability?  I would really prefer to have a Gartner COO
estimate to compare to another Gartner COO estimate; at least there's some
chance of them having similar assumptions.

> :>OS/2 has the same problem that Windows 9x does in that it's really easy to
> :>destroy system software (that "I deleted stuff" problem again).
> 
> --snip--
> 
> There are a few things you are forgetting.  There are plenty of utilites,
> commercial, shareware and freeware to lock down the desktop and prevent
stuff
> like that for OS/2.

These exist for Win9x too, and yet they don't affect COO noticably.  It's just
too easy to get around them.  You need the lock-down ability in the OS proper,
not layered onto the desktop, because typical applications allow numerous
gateways to OS features.

> In large environments, the use of remote access
> tools like Netop, RSM or PCAnywhere can save a bundle in support time and
> costs.

All these do is stop you from having to walk over.  Remote administration is
still administration.

> Third, OS/2 can be ripl booted, this is where the OS and applications
> are loaded over the network from the server and executed locally on the
> workstation.  OS/2 has had the ability for 10 years.

Now you're talking, but we'll get into the drawbacks of this technique in a
minute.

> Or using a product like WiseManager from
> Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
> minutes.

No argument there, but that capability has been available for Windows systems
for years too, using Ghost.

> :>Where you're making assumptions that may not hold is that you believe that
> :>it's cheaper to keep using what you've got than it is to replace it.
> 
> --snip--
> 
> I never made the assumption that it is cheaper to keep using what I've got.
> I stated that OS/2 requires less hardware than NT to accomplish the same
> tasks.

The hardware difference you're talking about is well under $100 retail, on the
order of 1-2% of COO.  That's down in the noise.

> Here is a number for you.  I can provide a workstations and the
> servers to support them for an organization for 50%-70% less than the
numbers
> for the NC or NT ZAK solutions in the article you pointed me to.  Here is a
> the configuration.  PC or IBM 2800 with 64 megs ram, full sound capability
> and no hard drive.  Software:  Office suite, Web browser other software used
> for general office use.  Cost per workstation, $200 per month per
workstation
> on a 2 year contract.  I provide all the support for the workstations.  TCO
> for the customer is $2400 per year per workstation.  This number works for a
> site with 5-50 workstations.  With more workstations and depending on the
> configuration, I can bring that number down to $150 per workstation.  The
> beauty of it all is that I can administer it remotely.  Once I have a site
> setup, it takes almost no effort to administer it.

Ok, now we can talk about network centralized systems.

Your figures totally ignore the network infrastructure cost of these systems. 
They are now totally dependent on the network -- and network infrastructure is
many times more expensive than local disk and slower to boot.

We used to use this configuration with Sun 3/50 hardware.  It sure did make
administration easy, but we had to have many times the network and server
capability to support it.  As I recall it totally fell apart at about 15
systems per server.  Modern hardware is presumably better, but it's not even
an order of magnitude better.  And remember that you've just introduced a big,
big single-point-of-failure so you better buy really reliable servers.

So you're COO isn't really $2,400 -- you have to add in all that other stuff,
thousands of dollars per user in server and network hardware plus support
costs for all of that.

> :>Whether or not one of those good alternatives is OS/2 is quite debatable.  
IBM
> :>has seriously curtailed ongoing development of the system; it has been in
> :>maintenance mode for a couple of years, and we've even heard of potential
> :>cut-off dates for that (2006 wasn't it?).  Drivers for a lot of new
hardware
> :>are impossible to get.  Very few ISVs continue to build -- or even
maintain --
> :>software for it.
> 
> Let's see, Win95 support ended when Win98 was released and WinNT support is
> going to go bye-bye when Win2000 is released.  MS stops support for old
> products when they release a new product.  BTW, the cutoff date for OS/2
> support you are refering to is for free support, you can still get support
> from IBM for old products, you just have to pay for it.

Actually no, when IBM drops support for a product you can't get support for it
even if you want to pay for it.  Trust me on this, I've lived through the
retirement of several IBM systems.  At least nowadays they can't demand their
OS media back :-).

In any case what do you do when you can't get drivers for new hardware any
more, and you can't get the old hardware either?

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               16-Dec-99 22:04:09
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Kim Cheung wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:57:37 -0500 (EST), Chris Stumpf wrote:
> 
> >Or using a product like WiseManager from
> >Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
> >minutes.
> 
> Urrrr... not minutes, Chris - make that ....seconds...

I've been wondering about this claim.  It seems to me that raw data copy
performance would put you well beyond that point.  It takes on the order of 5
minutes to re-ghost a Windows system, for instance.  Now, I know OS/2 is
smaller, but it's not two orders of magnitude smaller.

How is it managed?

jim

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From: srd@x.mcmail.com                                  17-Dec-99 01:12:22
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:21
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Steve Drewell <srd@x.mcmail.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 at 21:48 GMT, jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John
Poltorak) wrote:


>>When it does the "compare", is it doing a byte level compare of the
>>file, or just the directories? Notice that we are not interested in
>>whether certain file is different (from a size, date time stamp point of
>>view) - we're interested in knowing if the CD-R is an exact replicate of
>>the original.

>Diff has many options and can do either of the above. The -q flag
>mentioned is for a quick compare - basically size and date. The default
>is a binary comparison.

Actually, when I did a small test, I had two files exactly the same size
and date but the contents were different. When I used the -q option, the
files were shown as being different which indicates that a byte by byte
comparison is done even with the -q option.

Cheers,
Steve
-- 
Steve Drewell             (Remove x. from address to reply)
_____________________________________________________________
Using IBM OS/2 Warp 4 running 26 processes with 136 threads.
Machine uptime is 0 days, 0 hours, 10 mins and 46 secs.
_____________________________________________________________


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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        17-Dec-99 01:52:09
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <38598f47$1$feq$mr2ice@news.cwcom.net>, Steve Drewell <srd@x.mcmail.com>
writes:
>On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 at 21:48 GMT, jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John
>Poltorak) wrote:
>
>
>>>When it does the "compare", is it doing a byte level compare of the
>>>file, or just the directories? Notice that we are not interested in
>>>whether certain file is different (from a size, date time stamp point of
>>>view) - we're interested in knowing if the CD-R is an exact replicate of
>>>the original.
>
>>Diff has many options and can do either of the above. The -q flag
>>mentioned is for a quick compare - basically size and date. The default
>>is a binary comparison.
>
>Actually, when I did a small test, I had two files exactly the same size
>and date but the contents were different. When I used the -q option, the
>files were shown as being different which indicates that a byte by byte
>comparison is done even with the -q option.

Oops...

In that case I don't understand the function of the '-q' option...

Maybe it stops after finding the first difference.

>Cheers,
>Steve
>-- 
>Steve Drewell             (Remove x. from address to reply)
>_____________________________________________________________
>Using IBM OS/2 Warp 4 running 26 processes with 136 threads.
>Machine uptime is 0 days, 0 hours, 10 mins and 46 secs.
>_____________________________________________________________
>
>

--
John

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From: jr_fox@earthlink.net                              16-Dec-99 18:33:25
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: can't get rsj to behave (still)

From: "J. R. Fox" <jr_fox@earthlink.net>

nemo@union.edu wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I'm about to post this to the rsj newsgroup but I thought I'd ask here
> also.
>

Don't have an answer to your query (sorry), but could you post the address
for this group ?
TIA.

<jf>



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From: tgal@pobox.com                                    16-Dec-99 18:33:03
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Embellish Install Workaround

From: "Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.)" <tgal@pobox.com>

Many thanks to all who responded to my nano-poll.  Most votes
fell
to "C"-circle, then to "R"-circle, and "K"-circle deserving 
an honor mention.  ;>  I know how "K" gets in there: past my 
3rd hour at the screen.  Anyway, it is "R"-circle that was 
intended, assuming codepage 850 is underneath; "C"-circle shows
up
when codepage 1004 is below.  Close enough for government work.

STORAL OF THE MORY: can't control what shows up at the client end
without a control mechanism.


Stan Goodman wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:11:44, J. N. Pfisterer <an479@lafn.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:39:23 -0800, Austy Garhi (n. d'e-pl.) wrote:
> >
> > >Is it a "C" or an "R" inside a circle, or any other glyph?
> > >
> > >--
> > > ===>  tgal@pobox.com
> > >
> > >¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
> >
> > I make it out to be Ks in a circle.  I think it means you're Kosher.  :)
> 
> =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8 =;->8  You have made my day.
> 
> But that's not what I see here. I see a "Copyright" symbol -- a C in a
> circle. But that's kosher too.
> 
> FWIW, the "kosher" certification is a U in a circle or a K without a
> circle. Off topic though this information is for this group, we would not
> wish to mislead anybody.



;^>  yes, I thought this was funny too.  But what would the "U"
stand for?

-- 
 ===>  tgal@pobox.com

¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
InfoBaHn on:  Rockwell, Netscape, InJOY, and OS/2
____________________________________________________
((( BOXER )))  fassst, 32-bit character mode editor

http://www.boxersoftware.com/
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
((( InJOY ))) INTERNET DIALER apparatus EXTRAORDINAIRE!

http://www.fx.dk/injoy
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸
((( BLOWFISH ))) ENCRYPTION for users/developers.

http://www.counterpane.com/blowfish.html
¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸¸

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From: jim.danvers@mindex.com                            16-Dec-99 19:12:23
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Whats a good book to buy for Warp v4.0?

From: Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com>

Any recommendations for a good read on using / tweaking / optimizing
Warp v.4?   Avail @Barnes and Noble or Borders Bookstores?  Something
relatively recent and aware of the latest "poop" on the subject.

Thanks...

-=- J.D. -=-


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jim.danvers@mindex.com                            16-Dec-99 19:10:10
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Warp v4 installed & FP9 installed - now what?

From: Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com>

Hi folks...

Been playing and learning a bit about OS/2 on and off over the last few
weeks and now have the following cfg:

Warp v4.0 FP9 on an Intel 233mmx w/128 meg ram generic mutt clone.  I
have a diamond stealth ii s220 video card with 4 meg ram on it, and an
external usr sportster 28.8 modem.

Now..  I see a lot of chatter in these groups regarding the current
version of the IP stack, and other various peices that make up the OS -
how do I tell what revision of components I have running on this box
now?  I cfg'd a dialup connection to my ISP yesterday using the "dial
other providers" (or something like that as it is called) and lo and
behold I actually got it right the first time!  (I didn't even follow
anyones directions or suggestions either...)  I attempted to utilize the
"Get Software Updates" program but that only led me to what appeared to
be a dead page @IBM.  This could have been due to the fact that the only
browser in place @present is the web explorer though...  I have 4.61
communicator available, just haven't installed it yet.  I'll end my
question(s) here and let ya'll come back and see what we come up with.
Again - this is basically an out of the box install of Warp v4 w/FP9
installed.  No config.sys mods ('cept for the swap file size) nor any
s/w installs applied yet.

Thanks folks....

-=- J.D. -=-



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: pc-reg_englsh@yahoo.com                           18-Dec-99 03:39:29
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: +++GET YOUR FREE PENTIUM CELERON-300+++________________________________

From: PC <pc-reg_englsh@yahoo.com>

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--------------03666375814C6CB371B3E6DF--



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From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              17-Dec-99 02:14:03
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 "Steven C. Britton" <scb@scb-group.com> wrote:

> I'm getting between 10 and 12% on my group plan, and I'm getting
> 15% on my private plan.  The CPP gives a return of about 1%.

Don't help them out like this, Steven.  The CPP is a money-LOSING
proposition.  1% would be a vast improvement.  So would hiding
your money under the pillow.

Chris


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: alan@min.net.notspam                              17-Dec-99 02:02:14
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Quicken 98 - again

From: alan@min.net.notspam

Okay, this is a long story, but what else could we expect?  My computer
had some hardware troubles, and was down for two weeks.  Meanwhile, Intuit
sent me the updated Quicken98 Deluxe Revision 4 CD I'd ordered from the
website.  Once my computer was fixed, I decided to uninstall Q98R1 before
installing R4, as the instructions said.  No go - it wouldn't uninstall.

So, I erased everything that had anything to do with Quicken - the
directory structure, the ini files for the individual programs, the
relevant portions of the win.ini and system.ini files, and group of icons
from the program manager.

I then installed R4 from the new CD.  That seemed to go well, but
installation then failed when it got to Internet Explorer.  The previous
version from the R1 install is still on the system, so I really don't need
to upgrade that if there's a way for R4 to recognize the existent
Iexplorer.

Now, I'm back to being unable to connect to the internet from Quicken. 
When I try, I get the winsock error "Inet not running."  It's running,
because I'm fetching mail via my cable modem while trying to connect with
quicken.  Anything simple I need to change in setup somewhere?

Note - I'm running win-os/2 under Warp 4, and things were working fine
until I had to make my Quicken Y2K ready with Revision 4.  I have SET
ETC=C:\MPTN\ETC in config.sys, and SET ETC =F:\TCPIP\DOS\ETC in
autoexec.bat.

Thanks again for help.


Alan


---------------------------------------------------------------------
 *** Please remove .notspam from my address to reply via e-mail. ***

     Nerve Center BBS (Fidonet 1:261/1000)  410-655-4708

    Posted by Alan Hess using registered MR/2 ICE Newsreader #564

---------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: mimbar98@hotmail.com                              17-Dec-99 02:17:27
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: mimbar98@hotmail.com

In article <1bMmtd7zwYPT-pn2-mg2Woq5sOsyF@91.akron-01-02rs.oh.dial-
access.att.net>,

> Overall:
>
> If you noticed with Process Commander, and other Stardock software,
> their name is all over the various screens, help info, readme's, inf
> files, etc. etc. and it is easy to think that they actually write all
> their stuff, but that is NOT the case.  In the case of their OS/2
> software I believe they sub-contracted the programming out.  I know
> that for instance their BIG piece of Object Desktop for Windows is a
> conponent called Windowblinds.  Well guess what?  They didn't write
> the initial releases of the software.  Their actual "windows-look"
> modifier was a chessy little proggy that added some lines to the title
> bar area, and if I remember correctly allowed limited changes to the
> window close/max/min buttons.  That was all.  They licensed the rest
> from someone else.  Granted, they make GIANT changes (all for the
> positive) in the program, but it DID NOT originate with StarDock.
> Kind of like what Microsoft is always accused of :=)
>
> Anyway, that's the story as I know it.
> Corrections welcomed !!!

Well don't let the truth get in your way before posting. The original
piece called WindowFX which later was renamed to WindowBlinds was
designed and developed at Stardock. In fact, the original developer,
David Braun, also wrote much of Entrepreneur and other OS/2 programs at
Stardock.

Later, WindowFX .2 which had various kinds of skins and such was merged
with another program called Window Blinds but it was from what both
developers said, a nearly 50/50 code split at that time. Since then,
the developer works directly for Stardock. Unlike Process Commander,
which Stardock designed but didn't develop, WindowBlinds is 100%
Stardock designed/developed thus the most important part for this
discussion is that Stardock has control over the source code unlike
Process Commander.

If you bothered to read Stardock's news server, it would be pretty
obvious that WindowBlinds is a 100% Stardock technology at this point.

Stardock has products they've developed and published and they've had
products that they just published. Process Commander they designed but
didn't develop. Object Desktop is something they designed, developed
and published.



>
> Gregory L. Marx
> skidmarx@att.net
>
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: cdelanoy@ualberta.ca                              17-Dec-99 02:19:27
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca>

 jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca wrote:

> Tell me.  What would be the annual cost for you to provide the
> CPP benefits other than the retirement pension.

Are you under 54?  If so, then you would be better off by
abandoning every single dollar you've ever contributed to the
plan and starting over again from a pension fund of zero over
the last 11 years before your retirement, contributing only the
amount that the government would otherwise be taking.  -THIS- is
the astounding depth of the CPP catastrophe.  -THIS- is the reason
why no amount of blubbering lies about your "compassion" can
ever change the fact that your "caring" plan is an economic
and social disaster of unprecedented magnitude.

Chris J Delanoy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jr_fox@earthlink.net                              16-Dec-99 19:02:06
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: "J. R. Fox" <jr_fox@earthlink.net>

SkidMARX@att.net wrote:

> JR,
>
> I know this is not a GOOD solution but ...
>
> I use Process Commander to bail me out of this problem (the need for a
> hard-reset and chkdsk run) by using the Ctl-Alt-Esc sequence to reboot
> the computer.
>
> It has worked every time !!!
>
>

I've had this on my system for a couple years -- as long as I've been running
Warp 4
-- and it
*Never* worked for me.  PC could salvage various crash situations (and to that
degree, I guess
it was worthwhile), but NS crashes definitely were NOT one of these . . .  at
least
in my
experience.


> I'd rather have to wait for a reboot than having to sit thru a chkdsk
> run, and as well possible desktop corruption ...
>
> The DOSCALL1.dll problem had to fixed by a individual programmer, but
> it is fixed !!!
> Not StarDock or the actual author.

>

> Please, more info on this -- I've never heard of it.  (I do have StarDock's
FixKit
> #1, circa

1997, the only update they ever released for Process Cmdr.)  The way I've had
to work
it is
to have multiple CONFIG.SYS files, some of which call the *real* DOSCALL1.DLL
instead
of the PC one, when I know I'll need to steer clear of the latter's problems
for
certain functions,
such as applying a FixPack.  This works fine, save for a minor, unimportant
error
from another
PC component in the Startup file, which gets "orphaned" when I boot up
_without_ PC.

<jf>



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From: cstumpf@monmouth.com                              16-Dec-99 23:33:25
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Chris Stumpf" <cstumpf@monmouth.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:04:18 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

:>
:>I've been wondering about this claim.  It seems to me that raw data copy
:>performance would put you well beyond that point.  It takes on the order of
5
:>minutes to re-ghost a Windows system, for instance.  Now, I know OS/2 is
:>smaller, but it's not two orders of magnitude smaller.
:>
:>How is it managed?
:>

You are thinking like windows.  Stop for just a few seconds and clear you
mind.  Now, here is how it works.  IBM placed the ability to do RIPL over the
network.  RIPL stands for Remote Initial Program Load.  All the files for
each workstation reside on the server.  No hard drive is required in the
workstation, although if there is one, it can be used for virtual memory swap
space to reduce network traffic.  There is no raw data copy of hundreds of
meg going on.  Actually it is quite an elegant solution.  There is only one
copy of the OS, in this case, OS/2 Warp 4 on the server.  Each workstation
gets a directory and in that directory goes only the files that are specific
to that workstation and can be changed, like config.sys and ini files. 
WiseManager is a tool to manage the machine profiles on the server. 
Rebuilding a machine is nothing more than reading a script file to recreate
the configuration of the machine at some known point.  It is really
impressive technology.  Especially when you setup a bunch of monitors with
pc's attached with no hard drives and after networking them to the server,
turn them on and watch them boot.  Instant network.  If say they all need an
application like say Adobe Acrobat View, it is a simple drag-and-drop
operation to install the program to all the machines simultaneously.  The
icon appears on the desktops and the app works, no reboot required.  Not all
apps install quite that simply, some require a reboot of the workstation to
run properly.  Does this explain things a little better for you?

		Chris Stumpf
		C.S.E. Computer Services
		Computer Consultant (OS/2, Lan, Wan, CTI)
		Serenity Systems Channel Partner
		IBM Certified Systems Expert - OS/2 Warp 4
		

web:    http://cse.anterras.net
email:	cse@anterras.net
phone: (732)496-4699



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From: cstumpf@monmouth.com                              17-Dec-99 00:00:28
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Chris Stumpf" <cstumpf@monmouth.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:58:54 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

:>
:>Dare I mention the possibility that the banks may not be running a typical
:>application mix, and that it might be possible that with similar
applications
:>you'd get similar supportability?  I would really prefer to have a Gartner
COO
:>estimate to compare to another Gartner COO estimate; at least there's some
:>chance of them having similar assumptions.
:>

You obviously have no clue as to the nature of the technology I'm discussing.

:>
:>These exist for Win9x too, and yet they don't affect COO noticably.  It's
just
:>too easy to get around them.  You need the lock-down ability in the OS
proper,
:>not layered onto the desktop, because typical applications allow numerous
:>gateways to OS features.
:>
OS/2 has the hooks for C-2 level security built into the OS and there are
several addons that take advantage of this.  OS/2 can be made secure with
little effort as it does not have the holes that Windows does.

:>
:>All these do is stop you from having to walk over.  Remote administration is
:>still administration.
:>
And saving time is still saving time.  This walk time is signifigant
especially in large buildings with multiple floors.

:>> Third, OS/2 can be ripl booted, this is where the OS and applications
:>> are loaded over the network from the server and executed locally on the
:>> workstation.  OS/2 has had the ability for 10 years.
:>
:>Now you're talking, but we'll get into the drawbacks of this technique in a
:>minute.
:>
Yes there are drawbacks, but a properly designed and configured network and
servers can deal with them.

:>> Or using a product like WiseManager from
:>> Serenity Systems, the machine can be completely rebuilt in a matter of
:>> minutes.
:>
:>No argument there, but that capability has been available for Windows
systems
:>for years too, using Ghost.
:>
I repeat, there is no image being pushed down to the client machines in a
RIPL enviroment.  Saying that a Ghost image and a RIPL boot are the same
shows you haven't a clue what you are talking about.  BTW, RIPL booted
machines don't need a hard drive.

:>> :>Where you're making assumptions that may not hold is that you believe
that
:>> :>it's cheaper to keep using what you've got than it is to replace it.
:>> 
:>> --snip--
:>> 
:>> I never made the assumption that it is cheaper to keep using what I've
got.
:>> I stated that OS/2 requires less hardware than NT to accomplish the same
:>> tasks.
:>
:>The hardware difference you're talking about is well under $100 retail, on
the
:>order of 1-2% of COO.  That's down in the noise.
:>
:>> Here is a number for you.  I can provide a workstations and the
:>> servers to support them for an organization for 50%-70% less than the
numbers
:>> for the NC or NT ZAK solutions in the article you pointed me to.  Here is
a
:>> the configuration.  PC or IBM 2800 with 64 megs ram, full sound capability
:>> and no hard drive.  Software:  Office suite, Web browser other software
used
:>> for general office use.  Cost per workstation, $200 per month per
workstation
:>> on a 2 year contract.  I provide all the support for the workstations. 
TCO
:>> for the customer is $2400 per year per workstation.  This number works for 
a
:>> site with 5-50 workstations.  With more workstations and depending on the
:>> configuration, I can bring that number down to $150 per workstation.  The
:>> beauty of it all is that I can administer it remotely.  Once I have a site
:>> setup, it takes almost no effort to administer it.
:>
:>Ok, now we can talk about network centralized systems.
:>
:>Your figures totally ignore the network infrastructure cost of these
systems. 
:>They are now totally dependent on the network -- and network infrastructure
is
:>many times more expensive than local disk and slower to boot.
:>
:>We used to use this configuration with Sun 3/50 hardware.  It sure did make
:>administration easy, but we had to have many times the network and server
:>capability to support it.  As I recall it totally fell apart at about 15
:>systems per server.  Modern hardware is presumably better, but it's not even
:>an order of magnitude better.  And remember that you've just introduced a
big,
:>big single-point-of-failure so you better buy really reliable servers.
:>
Now you are talking about Xwindows.  This is a different animal altogether. 
The servers are doing the program execution and spewing graphics over the
network.  I can support 30 machines on one server and not a huge server at
that.  It would work just fine on a dual PII 350 with 512 megs ram and a
raid5 disk array with 5 9 gig hard drives.  With a bigger server I can handle
more.  Oh, and would you agree with me that that such a server would not be
considered expensive as servers go, but rather cheap.  The bulk of network
traffic occurs when booting or loading large programs.  Once OS is loaded,
everything happens locally and there would be no network traffic at all if
there is enough ram in the client box to prevent swapping once the programs
are loaded.  So, I realize you are talking from your experience, but the
technologies are so very different.

:>So you're COO isn't really $2,400 -- you have to add in all that other
stuff,
:>thousands of dollars per user in server and network hardware plus support
:>costs for all of that.
:>
Uh, that number includes the cost of the server to support those
workstations.  As far as hardware like hubs and switches and wiring goes. 
Most companies are wired with cat5 cable and have 100 mbps hubs.  That
equipment can be reused.  It is adequate, but not optimal.  Using a switch is
the best solution.  So, even if I had to do an entire network completely from
scratch, I could probably do it for not too much more.  Besides, wiring and
hubs or switches I wouldn't work into the contract, I would sell that
outright.  Because if the customer desides to go with something totally
different or doesn't renew, I can take my equipment out and replace it with
something else or some other company can come in a plug into the existing
network.

--snip--


		Chris Stumpf
		C.S.E. Computer Services
		Computer Consultant (OS/2, Lan, Wan, CTI)
		Serenity Systems Channel Partner
		IBM Certified Systems Expert - OS/2 Warp 4
		

web:    http://cse.anterras.net
email:	cse@anterras.net
phone: (732)496-4699



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jr_fox@earthlink.net                              16-Dec-99 19:10:02
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: SIQ Lockup problem...

From: "J. R. Fox" <jr_fox@earthlink.net>

Mark Davis wrote:

>
> I've had Netscape lock up the WPS, but I've always been able to reboot with
> C-A-D, which keeps chkdsk from running on bootup.
>

Hmm, interesting.  Maybe Process Cmdr. is part of the problem (?).  But I
wouldn't
want to place
all bets on plain old C-A-D either.  Maybe a good time to test those
extensions to
WatchCat . . . .

<jf>



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jr_fox@earthlink.net                              16-Dec-99 19:29:03
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Whats a good book to buy for Warp v4.0?

From: "J. R. Fox" <jr_fox@earthlink.net>

Jim Danvers wrote:

> Any recommendations for a good read on using / tweaking / optimizing
> Warp v.4?   Avail @Barnes and Noble or Borders Bookstores?  Something
> relatively recent and aware of the latest "poop" on the subject.
>
> Thanks...
>

Jim,

The *only* Warp-4 book that was published (AFAIK) is "Getting to Know
OS/2 Warp 4" by
Stokes, Buecker, Friedrichs, Moroian, and Schey, ISBN # 0-13-842147-1.
(What a shame that
Tyson's update to "Warp 3 Unleashed" never saw the light of day !)  You
could try Indelible
Blue for this, but they will probably just refer you to Amazon.
Hopefully it is still available.
If not, there's always Ebay and your local used bookshops.

Hope this Helps.

<jfox>



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net                16-Dec-99 22:09:01
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: FP12 - Trap 00d

From: yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net

In <1999Bpr2144215@j.welton.mailcity.com>, on 12/15/99 
   at 05:21 PM, Jeff Welton <j.welton@mailcity.com> said:

The "work around" is removing the line for your sound card device driver.

IBM did its best to alienate a mass quantity of OS/2 users with this
release by breaking ESS sound chip support.

Roland


>Dale Erwin wrote:

>  I just installed FP12 today, then when I tried to reboot, I got the
>  following trap:
>  ------------------------------
>  Exception in Device Driver:  ES18691$
>  Trap 00d              ERRCE=0084    ERRAC=****       ERLIM=********
>  EAX=fde20084   EBX=ffff0000    ECX=00004e88    EDX=00000000
>  ESI=9692001e    EDI=00000291    EBP=00004eaa    FLG=00213246
>  CS:EIP=2ae0:00004260    CSACC=0096    CSLIM=000068d0
>  SS:ESP=0030:00004ea6    SSACC=1097    SSLIM=00003fff
>  DS=2ad8    DSACC=0093    DSLIM=00002bf0    CR0=8001001b
>  ES=2ad8    ESACC=0093    ESLIM=00002bf0    CR2=ffe1813a
>  FS=0000    FSACC=****    FLSIM=********
>  GS=0000    GSACC=****    GSLIM=********

>  The system detected an internal processing error at
>  location ##0168:fff4832e - 0000:c32e.

>  600000, 9084
>  05860570
>  Internal Revision 9.036, 99/07/20

>  The system is stopped.  Record all of the above
>  information and contact your service representative.
>  ------------------------------
>  Seems that I have heard it said before that not much of this
>  information is beneficial to determining the cause of the trouble.
>  I am sure the first line is important though.  After several
>  unsuccessful
>  tries to reboot, I booted from Utility disks and REMed out the two
>  lines in config.sys with that driver name in it.  I was then able to
>  reboot,
>  but now I have no audio.

>  Does anyone know of a workaround, or am I going to have to
>  backout the entire fixpack?
>  --
>  Dale Erwin
>  Dallas, Texas


>Yes, I can tell you.  I suffered through this problem again and again
>while trying to bring my system back to a useable state after trying a
>poor beta program  called SciDisplay Doctor.

>I tried all of the available updates, including the updated driver from
>the ESS site itself and the driver from that Indelible Blue guy's site
>and still failed.  And then some kind soul named Osmo told me to  go
>here:

>http://service.software.ibm.com/os2ddpak/html/2632ADD962A12DA3852561B2004F42F4
.
>html

>and download IBM's version of the ESS drivers.  You need to copy all the
>files over to a floppy because the install program works only from the A:
>drive but once the menu comes up, I told it to use the files (which I had
>copied over to the A: drive floppy) found in the original temp directory
>where I first unzipped them.  Don't know why but that worked.  I don't
>have WinOS/2 on my system so I didn't bother with the WinOS/2 driver,
>just the straight ess1688 driver.  This version brought my sound system
>back to normal.  

>Hope it works for you.



>Jeffrey D. Welton



>Posted Using: J Street Mailer (build 99.1.9.pvk (19990912))
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net              To Respond delete
".illegaltospam"
                            MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.52
                            For a Microsoft free univers
-----------------------------------------------------------

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jim.danvers@mindex.com                            16-Dec-99 23:39:21
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Whats a good book to buy for Warp v4.0?

From: Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com>

Thanks J.R..  :)

-=- J.D. -=-

"J. R. Fox" wrote:

> Jim Danvers wrote:
>
> > Any recommendations for a good read on using / tweaking / optimizing
> > Warp v.4?   Avail @Barnes and Noble or Borders Bookstores?  Something
> > relatively recent and aware of the latest "poop" on the subject.
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
>
> Jim,
>
> The *only* Warp-4 book that was published (AFAIK) is "Getting to Know
> OS/2 Warp 4" by
> Stokes, Buecker, Friedrichs, Moroian, and Schey, ISBN # 0-13-842147-1.
> (What a shame that
> Tyson's update to "Warp 3 Unleashed" never saw the light of day !)  You
> could try Indelible
> Blue for this, but they will probably just refer you to Amazon.
> Hopefully it is still available.
> If not, there's always Ebay and your local used bookshops.
>
> Hope this Helps.
>
> <jfox>

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 22:34:07
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Jack Troughton wrote:
>
> You are REALLY uneducated aren't you?  Capitalism (more specifically,
> venture capitalism) was invented in England in the seventeenth
> century.

<<SPLAT!!!>>

Damn... gotta clean the orange juice off the monitor now..  hold on a sec...

Okay... let me read that again...

<SPLAT!!!>>

(Cleans up orange juice again, wipes tears from eyes...)

Okay... now that I've composed myself ...

Jack, are you in stand-up comedy?  You should really consider it as a
career.  That was FUNNY!!!

I guess Caesar had his head embossed on coins just because he liked seeing
his image mounted in bronze, silver, and gold, and I guess the ancient
Israelites in the time that the books of Moses were written didn't trade
livestock with each other, or pay dowries for women to take as wives...

Capitalism was invented in the seventeenth century.... ya, okay.

In fact, capitalism is the NATURAL STATE OF BEING for people.  We trade
goods; whether it's money for a service (prostitution), or a cow for a horse
(barter), or a gun for a cow (trade), it's all capitalism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 22:37:23
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Tim Rosnau wrote:
>
> Could you please enlighten us with an example of somebody doing
> something ethical which is also against the law? (and please don't
> use Microsoft as an example)

Sure:

Law in Germany during the reign of Hitler was that you had to turn any Jews
over to the SS if they were hiding in your neighborhood.

Someone who either hid Jews or lied to the SS to make them go away was doing
something ethical yet illegal.

> > One would expect that if one is doing business ethically (which
Microsoft
> > was), one wouldn't be breaking any laws in the process.
>
> Never thought I'd see Microsoft and ethics mentioned in the same
> sentence. Ultimately, that's what the DoJ trial was all about.
> Everyone involved knew that MS's business practices were very
> questionable ethically. The question was could  enough
> _illegalities_ be found in those practices to win the trial. There
> was and they did.

It was a show trial.  The outcome was determined before the opening
arguments were heard.  Kangaroo court at its finest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 22:39:29
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Stephen Untruth wrote:
>
> > It's called a Ponzi scheme, named after a rather innovative Boston
> > mail-stamps vendor in the 19th century.  It's called a scheme only by
the
> > very polite: in reality is a sham...yet when your holy government does
it,
> > you call it a 'bargain'?
>
> Its certainly a pension plan based on a pay as you go basis.  No one ever
> denied that.  It works because all working people in Canada are part of
> the Plan, and will continue to be.

It's a scam, Untruth.

It requires an ever-increasing "investment" base (read "dupe") or an
ever-increasing investment amount (read "tax").

It _will_ collapse, Untruth.  Ponzi and pyramid scams always do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 22:46:25
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Bob Germer wrote:
>
> > I guess you're just too closed-minded to see that laws can, in fact, be
> > unjust, which means that someone doing something perfectly ethical can
> > in fact be breaking the law.
>
> We are talking about legalities, not ethics. And Bill Gates' vow to smash
> his competitors repeated ad nauseum in the press, at employee parties,
> etc. by whatever means it took is far from ethical in any system in the
> western world.

It's called C...O...M...P...E...T...I...T...I...O...N, Bob.  It's nature.
Everything competes.

> > In other words, one can break the anti-trust laws without actually doing
> > anything wrong.
>
> No one cannot.

Yes one can.  Microsoft did.  Their only ethical crime was success.

> So called "civil disobedience" used to force changes in
> laws limiting individual freedom may well have been ethical since the laws
> unfairly discrimintated against people based on race, etc. and were found
> to be unconstitutional for the most part. The anti-trust law, however, is
> not discriminatory and has been repeatedly found constitutional by the
> courts.

Whether a court finds something "constitutional" does not reflect on the
ethical nature of what they find constitutional.  "Constitutional" means "it
is legitimate under the guidelines of our Constition: how we operate in this
country."

That has no bearing on whether something is fundamentally ethical or not.

> > How tyrannical.  Another reason why I'll never move to the US -- not
> > that it'll disappoint you.
>
> Oh? How is it tyranny to punish criminals?

It is tyranny to punish non-criminals like Microsoft.

> Is the Canadian government tyrannical because it imprisons people for
committing crimes?

The Canadian government certainly _is_ tyrannical -- but not for imprisoning
criminals.

> It one fails to pay his taxes, court imposed fines, etc., does the
Canadian government
> say "Oh well" and not sieze his or her assets?

That is tyranny.  All taxes -- especially at Canadian levels (which are
criminally high) -- are tyrannical.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               16-Dec-99 21:50:06
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:32:44 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

>Ahh, but WSOD is *not* a full-blown OS/2!  It's effectively OS/2 in an NC
>configuration.  You can do pretty well at reducing NT's COO if you strip it
>down to NC capability levels too.

Ignorance is the root of foolish mind.    Who said WSOD is *not* a full-blown
OS/2?   How much do you know about WSOD?


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 22:49:04
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Stephen Untruth wrote:
>
> Tell me.  What would be the annual cost for you to provide the
> CPP benefits other than the retirement pension.

Irrelevant.  Small change compared to a real retirement pension.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca                            17-Dec-99 05:09:24
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca

In can.politics Chris J Delanoy <cdelanoy@ualberta.ca> wrote:
>  jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca wrote:

>> Tell me.  What would be the annual cost for you to provide the
>> CPP benefits other than the retirement pension.

> Are you under 54?  If so, then you would be better off by
> abandoning every single dollar you've ever contributed to the
> plan and starting over again from a pension fund of zero over
> the last 11 years before your retirement, contributing only the
> amount that the government would otherwise be taking.  -THIS- is
> the astounding depth of the CPP catastrophe.  -THIS- is the reason
> why no amount of blubbering lies about your "compassion" can
> ever change the fact that your "caring" plan is an economic
> and social disaster of unprecedented magnitude.

You seem to assume, wrongly, that the only benefits paid by the
CPP are the retirement plan.

Since you claim to know so much about the CPP, why don't you cost
out the various parts of the plan.

-- 
Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(jenuths@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: sbritton@cadvision.com                            16-Dec-99 22:50:24
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: "Steven C. Britton" <sbritton@cadvision.com>

Chris J Delanoy wrote:
>
> > I'm getting between 10 and 12% on my group plan, and I'm getting
> > 15% on my private plan.  The CPP gives a return of about 1%.
>
> Don't help them out like this, Steven.  The CPP is a money-LOSING
> proposition.  1% would be a vast improvement.  So would hiding
> your money under the pillow.

Published research I've seen indicates the dismal return of about 1%, but I
do believe that the ACTUAL return is, as you say, negative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What have YOU done to bust a union today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Work better: Work union-free.

Steven C. Britton
Calgary

www.cadvision.com/sbritton



--- WtrGate+ v0.93.p7 sn 165
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: lifedata@xxvol.com                                17-Dec-99 00:57:24
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 03:47:22
Subj: Re: +++GET YOUR FREE PENTIUM CELERON-300+++____________________________

From: lifedata@xxvol.com

PC <pc-reg_englsh@yahoo.com> said:

>=====================================================
>Submit a simple form to order your Celeron-300MHz PC
>               FOR ONLY $9.99
>*****************************************************
>CLICK HERE: http://63.71.76.38/reg_form_eng/index.htm
>*****************************************************

NYET!!!




















>=====================================================
>Submit a simple form to order your Celeron-300MHz PC
>               FOR ONLY $9.99
>*****************************************************
>CLICK HERE: http://63.71.76.38/reg_form_eng/index.htm
>*****************************************************
























>-<Attachment #1, unnamed (1485 bytes), text/html 7bit>-

Jim L
Remove XX from address to Email
Crooks and kooks will get guns regardless of laws.


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: karen.l.mansbridge-wood@worldnet...               17-Dec-99 08:12:29
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 05:13:08
Subj: Re: Java for Netscape Comm. 4.6.1

Message sender: karen.l.mansbridge-wood@worldnet.att.net

From: karen.l.mansbridge-wood@worldnet.att.net

In <YeX7JeKVbJN0-pn2-HQud2W4g0zFY@localhost>, mbatey@cixno.spamco.uk (Maurice
Batey) writes:
>Having just installed 4.6.1 I am getting "Unsupported JAVA version" 
>(and Javascript) errors with one (bank) site.
>
>Anyone know where to get the latest version, please?

http://service.software.ibm.com/asd-bin/doc/index.htm

and then because 1.1.8 is a tad unstable, go to:

ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/software/java/fixes/os2/11/118/

and download the latest fixes for it.

Karen

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: osric@apk.net                                     17-Dec-99 03:58:18
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 05:13:08
Subj: Re: Tim Martin, Jason Bowen Read This

From: Tarquelne <osric@apk.net>

>is fact.  He knows he can't push me out of these newsgroups
>(God knows he's tried) 

But Brad, you _did_ stop contributing to these newsgroups!
. . . 

Whoops, I wasn't paying as much attention to the names as I should -
the message described so well what I saw happen in the "Stardock is
evil" threads, and I thought it was Brad W. writing about what Tim
did to _him_, not Tim writing about his own perceived problems.

That old "projection" thing tripped me up.  Sorry.
                                            Tarquelne
                                       <osric@apk.net>
        I know how God can make a rock so big He can't move it.
                                  ************************
Use the address above to reply - not the anti-spam "Reply-to" address
___________________________________________________________
"Anybody that wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years 
organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office."
--David Broder.                                                                
                                  


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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: nospam@spam.com                                   17-Dec-99 08:55:23
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 05:13:08
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: nospam@spam.com

Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:

Is this the same Bob Germer who was such an idiot on Fidonet for so many
years? Gawd, I thought they buried you in some root cellar somewhere. For
anyone who's not familiar, he was such an idiot on Fidonet that he destroyed
an entire "echomail group" (newsgroup for Internet people) which he
moderated, fought the creation of an alternative group on the same subject,
lost about every subscriber who ever read his group and, I had hoped, expired
in a flaming bout of apoplexy when no one would listen to him anymore. Bad
penny I guess. Ignore him. Chronic inability to carry on a reasonable
conversation, delusions of grandeur, unsupportable allegations of his own
importance and qualifications, general all around turd.

>On <HN2tEbdbtdhk-pn2-mjTE4zTnPwdg@localhost>, on 12/09/99 at 05:05 AM,
>   rcrane@octa4.net.au (Richard A Crane) said:
>
>
>> > I thought the final authority in the entire Commonwealth was the House of
>> > Lords. I stand corrected.
>> > 
>>  No and generally it never was - the Privy Council was and  for some Cth
>> Nations still is the final Court of Appeal
>
>I stand further corrected. I THOUGHT I recalled reading that a delegation
>from the House of Lords was the final arbiter of the fate of the
>Argentinian Dictator's extradition. Is my memory wrong or is the Privy
>Council that group of Lords?

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        17-Dec-99 10:08:07
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 10:29:26
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fmv6jo1.pminews@news.pacbell.net>, "Kim
Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> writes:
>On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:32:44 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:
>
>>Ahh, but WSOD is *not* a full-blown OS/2!  It's effectively OS/2 in an NC
>>configuration.  You can do pretty well at reducing NT's COO if you strip it
>>down to NC capability levels too.
>
>Ignorance is the root of foolish mind.    Who said WSOD is *not* a full-blown
>OS/2?   How much do you know about WSOD?
>

It's hugely different! After all, when it boots up you get an IBM boot blob,
rather
than an OS/2 boot blob. That proves it is not OS/2  ;-)...

BTW I've been looking for some sources of info on RIPL on the Internet,
but have drawn a blank. IBM have very little to say about it (AFAICS),
and there is no mention of it in the IBM Developer Connection program and
that seems to cover almost every IBM software available.

I recently bought an IBM Network Station and have been trying get Warp 4
running on it - (I can't find a demo of WSOD 2 although I got sent a copy of
WSOD 1), but I can't get sound configured. MINSTALL seems to fall over if
there is no local hard disk, and I haven't come across a CID method of
installing
sound drivers.

Any pointers/suggestions would be greatfully received.

--
John



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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: jknott@ibm.net                                    17-Dec-99 06:00:01
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 10:29:26
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: jknott@ibm.net (James Knott)

In article <38579155.BB424208@frostbytes.com>,
Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com> wrote:
>Dave Tholen wrote:
>> 
>> Jim Frost writes:
>> 
>> > So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
>> > distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
>> 
>> I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
>> is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
>> That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.
>
>I stand corrected.
>
>In any case the claim that OS/2 1.1 was the first GUI-equipped OS for the PC
>was dead wrong.

Anyone remember GEM from Digital Research?  It would run (walk?) on an
XT.




-- 
E-mail jknott@ca.ibm.com
_________________________________________________________________________
The above opinions are my own and not those of ISM Corp., a subsidiary of
IBM Canada Ltd.

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From: cocke@catherders.com                              17-Dec-99 06:41:26
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 10:29:26
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Michael W. Cocke <cocke@catherders.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:26:22 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

>"Michael W. Cocke" wrote:
>> That being the case, I would guess that you don't have to deal with any
>> users but yourself or other computer literates.  At home, I support my
>> wife and son, neither of whom are real interested in learning that
>> ls -l|sort|more is how you do a dir...
>
>Actually "dir" is how you do a dir on Linux, there's an alias right out of
the
>box, but practically speaking there is a reasonably good GUI file manager in
>KDE.  It may be hard for a lot of people to believe but you can actually do a
>whole lot of work on your typical Linux system without ever touching a
command
>line.  I use my Linux desktop pretty much the same as I always used my
Windows
>desktop -- hell, KDE is practically a knockoff.

I'm aware of the GUI features available - and I keep hearing about how 
they work perfectly until they stop...  Maybe in another year or so, but
I don't think I'm ready to recommend this quite yet.

>> At work, I support around 100
>> users who think a logon has something to do with a big tree.  Yeah,
>> linux would go over real big...  (intense sarcasm).  And before you
>> start telling me that I don't know anything about linux, let me tell you
>> that I was trained at SCO, and was a systems engineer at AT&T.  I know a
>> little about *nix systems.
>
>I wouldn't say something like that unless you proved to me that you were
>confused.  Obviously you're not, although perhaps your knowledge of the
>interfaces is a little dated.

Some, yes.  It's hard to get everything done that needs to be done, let 
alone researching things that may need to be done - but I do try.

>
>I think you're stretching things to say that everyone would rebel because
they
>had to type in a user name and password; they have to do that with pretty
much
>any networking system out there.  There are certainly going to be some issues
>but they're no worse than teaching someone how to do basic things with WPS
and
>typical GUI applications.  It's all basically the same stuff.

I wasn't clear.  I don't think they'd rebel because of having to type in
a logon, I think they'd hang me because changing the OS would require a 
user interface and application software switch.  Not an option for at 
least another 15 years, preferably 20 - after I retire.

>
>> >Those "funky" Windows software packages are the whole draw for your
product.
>> >You're basically betting that the customer has so much tied up in OS/2
that
>> >they can't afford to let it go, but they need those Windows applications
bad
>> >enough to pay hundreds of dollars extra on your stuff to get them.
>> 
>> You're forgetting one thing - there's also a whole class of customer
>> that would like (very much) to run one or more win apps, but cannot/will
>> not deal with the stability issues of windows on an enterprise level,
>> the 'virus of the day', a never-ending series of compatibility and
>> security problems...
>
>I'm having a hard time seeing why it is that you wouldn't have to deal with
>these same problems in the emulation system.  Maybe they'd be more contained,
>but it strikes me that what you're really doing is buying into both Windows
>support headaches and OS/2 support headaches -- plus whatever extra support
>headaches that you get from the emulation package.

It would depend on how the idea were implemented.  If they put a wrapper
around Windows to prevent it from hassling the rest of the system, it 
could be acceptable.  I'd be willing to look at it, at least for my own 
use.  As I said before, I won't approve it for company use until I've 
had a chance to see it.

>> Personally, I'd love to be able to run a few win apps on either my
>> system at home (OS/2) or my system at work (OS/2), but I _CANNOT_ risk
>> the stability of 24/7 networks for the sake of that.
>
>If you're under the assumption that you're immune from virii et al because
>you're not running Windows then you're making a mistake.  OS/2 has few
viruses
>not because it's hard to make them (there's absolutely nothing harder about
>writing an OS/2 virus than a Win9x virus) but because there are so few OS/2
>users that it's not interesting.  OS/2 still lacks the basic features
>(particularly filesystem security) necessary to stop a virus or worm
>intrusion.

Your knowledge of OS/2 has a few errors in it. Everything from the 
phrase "if you're under the assumption" down is incorrect. I have file 
system security enabled right now, for example.  I should mention that 
if you chose to use FAT filesystem under OS/2, you deserve what you will
get - lousy performance and any number of other problems.

>
>> >That's going to be a real tough sell.  You'd be way more likely to sell
>> >something that emulated OS/2 under Windows, though I wouldn't get anywhere
>> >near that business model either.
>> 
>> VMware recently announced this product - Speaking both personally and
>> professionally (Did I mention that I'm D.I.T.?), not interested.
>[...]
>> Off the top, if what they propose would let me run win98 apps without
>> compromising stability and security (running win98), I'd spend up to
>> $300.00 at home, and another $300.00 at work, just for my personal
>> systems.  I'd expect to pay more for an enterprise solution, but would
>> have to give it more thought before I actually approved it for general
>> use.  I need another support issue like I need a lobotomy.
>
>I think you've just proven my point.  Sure, the ability to run some Windows
>apps would be valuable, but not if you got extra headaches in the mix.  And
>let's face it, you're going to get Windows headaches if you're running any
>kind of a Windows environment -- even an emulated one.  Plus whatever
problems
>you already had, plus whatever problems the emulator has.

As I said, it depends on the implementation.  Look at the windows 3.1 
emulation in OS/2 - that was faster and more stable (substantially!) 
than windows native.

>I've used products like these for more than a decade and a half and while
they
>sometimes have their uses they do not tend to work as well as a native
>solution -- and they tend to cost more, too.  If you need the application bad
>enough you should run it native.

Not while the system has to stay up...



-------------------------------------------------------------------
         Please note:  My Email and web page addresses have changed!
                The new email address is cocke@catherders.com   
                 The web page is at http://www.catherders.com

               Because network administration is like herding cats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------



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From: warpguru@geocities.com                            17-Dec-99 11:22:11
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 10:29:26
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: warpguru@geocities.com (Roman Stangl)

In article <38570D8A.2817DBB9@optonline.net>,
 on Wed, 15 Dec 1999 03:47:07 GMT,
 Alan Beagley <Alan> writes:
>Is there a program one can use to compare what is on a CD-ROM (CD-R or
>CD-RW) with the files on a source CD-ROM or hard disk?
>
>At least for the first few "burns" I would like to check whether the
>newly created disk contains what it is supposed to contain.
>
>Alan

You may also try my XCOMP/2 Utility. You can download it (including the
source) at: www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/7885/

Regards, Roman

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From: bd83h@bedford.waii.com                            17-Dec-99 11:36:13
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 10:29:26
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: Steve Drewell <bd83h@bedford.waii.com>

On 17 Dec 1999, John Poltorak wrote:

î >Actually, when I did a small test, I had two files exactly the same size
î >and date but the contents were different. When I used the -q option, the
î >files were shown as being different which indicates that a byte by byte
î >comparison is done even with the -q option.
î 
î Oops...
î 
î In that case I don't understand the function of the '-q' option...
î 
î Maybe it stops after finding the first difference.

This is what the "man" says:

     -q       Report only whether the files differ, not the details of the
              differences.

So, here's two examples (2 files, both called "my_file", one in "my_dir"
and one in "my_dir_copy". Both files have the same size and date. One
contains "my_text" whilst the other contains "txet_ym" (due to some
glitch in copying, for example)):

Example 1: diff -r my_dir my_dir_copy

     diff -r my_dir/my_file my_dir_copy/my_file
     1c1
     < my_text
     ---
     > txet_ym

Example 2: diff -rq my_dir my_dir_copy

     Files my_dir/my_file and my_dir_copy/my_file differ


For verifying a backup or any other form of copy, the -q option is ideal
as the report produced is short and sweet. If nothing is reported, then
there are no differences.

Cheers,
Steve

Western Geophysical, Bedford, UK
Tel: +44 (0) 1234 224404
Fax: +44 (0) 1234 224517



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From: letoured@nospam.net                               17-Dec-99 06:49:13
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 10:29:26
Subj: Re: Who runs this country?

From: letoured@nospam.net

Hey Nospam, how come you don't have the guts to leave your name? 



>>nospam@spam.com said:


>Bob Germer <bobg.REMOVEME.@pics.com> wrote:

>Is this the same Bob Germer who was such an idiot on Fidonet for so many
>years? Gawd, I thought they buried you in some root cellar somewhere. For
>anyone who's not familiar, he was such an idiot on Fidonet that he
>destroyed an entire "echomail group" (newsgroup for Internet people)
>which he moderated, fought the creation of an alternative group on the
>same subject, lost about every subscriber who ever read his group and, I
>had hoped, expired in a flaming bout of apoplexy when no one would listen
>to him anymore. Bad penny I guess. Ignore him. Chronic inability to carry
>on a reasonable conversation, delusions of grandeur, unsupportable
>allegations of his own importance and qualifications, general all around
>turd.

>>On <HN2tEbdbtdhk-pn2-mjTE4zTnPwdg@localhost>, on 12/09/99 at 05:05 AM,
>>   rcrane@octa4.net.au (Richard A Crane) said:
>>
>>
>>> > I thought the final authority in the entire Commonwealth was the House
of
>>> > Lords. I stand corrected.
>>> > 
>>>  No and generally it never was - the Privy Council was and  for some Cth
>>> Nations still is the final Court of Appeal
>>
>>I stand further corrected. I THOUGHT I recalled reading that a delegation
>>from the House of Lords was the final arbiter of the fate of the
>>Argentinian Dictator's extradition. Is my memory wrong or is the Privy
>>Council that group of Lords?

_____________
Ed Letourneau <letoured@sover.net>

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               17-Dec-99 05:27:27
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On 17 Dec 1999 10:08:15 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:

>In <xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fmv6jo1.pminews@news.pacbell.net>, "Kim 
Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> writes:
>>On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:32:44 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:
>>
>>>Ahh, but WSOD is *not* a full-blown OS/2!  It's effectively OS/2 in an NC
>>>configuration.  You can do pretty well at reducing NT's COO if you strip it
>>>down to NC capability levels too.
>>
>>Ignorance is the root of foolish mind.    Who said WSOD is *not* a
full-blown
>>OS/2?   How much do you know about WSOD?
>>
>
>It's hugely different! After all, when it boots up you get an IBM boot blob,
rather
>than an OS/2 boot blob. That proves it is not OS/2  ;-)...
>

ROFL!!!

>BTW I've been looking for some sources of info on RIPL on the Internet,
>but have drawn a blank. IBM have very little to say about it (AFAICS),
>and there is no mention of it in the IBM Developer Connection program and
>that seems to cover almost every IBM software available.

You're looking under the wrong title.    WsOD over DHCP/PXE has been there
since ver 2.0.    It takes a lot longer then RPL though.

>
>I recently bought an IBM Network Station and have been trying get Warp 4
>running on it - (I can't find a demo of WSOD 2 although I got sent a copy of
>WSOD 1), but I can't get sound configured. MINSTALL seems to fall over if
>there is no local hard disk, and I haven't come across a CID method of
installing
>sound drivers.
>
>Any pointers/suggestions would be greatfully received.
>

Save yourself some grey hair - get WiseManager (shameless plug).   Check out
www.serenity-systems.com.




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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               17-Dec-99 08:43:19
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Chris Stumpf wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:04:18 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:
> :>I've been wondering about this claim.  It seems to me that raw data copy
> :>performance would put you well beyond that point.  It takes on the order
of 5
> :>minutes to re-ghost a Windows system, for instance.  Now, I know OS/2 is
> :>smaller, but it's not two orders of magnitude smaller.
> :>
> :>How is it managed?
> 
> You are thinking like windows.  Stop for just a few seconds and clear you
> mind.

Will you give me the benefit of the doubt for a minute?  I'm not a
Windows-head; even though I may decide that it gets the job done fairly well
sometimes I'm much more inclined to use something else.  But I do have some
preconceived notions and clearly they aren't always right.  I hadn't known
about the RIPL option.

> Now, here is how it works.  IBM placed the ability to do RIPL over the
> network.  RIPL stands for Remote Initial Program Load.  All the files for
> each workstation reside on the server.  No hard drive is required in the
> workstation, although if there is one, it can be used for virtual memory
swap
> space to reduce network traffic.

OK, it's effectively a diskless workstation arrangement.  I had been presuming
a more standard PC setup, and my arguments were skewed as a result.

Before you go off thinking that this is some cool technology IBM thought up,
Sun did this back in the mid 80s.  For awhile there the Sun 3/50 diskless
systems were terrifically popular -- you could save a grand or so per machine
by not including a disk.  But there were some problems.

Total reliance on the network required a lot more network and server bandwidth
to support.  Clusters didn't scale well; beyond a few tens of systems you'd
crush a server, and single ethernet segments tended to collapse at about 15
workstations.

By the late 80s your typical workstation cluster was dataless; a local drive
held the OS and applications and swap and you worked with data that was
centrally stored.  That was a huge, huge win in both performance and
scalability, but if your applications were data-hungry you still bottlenecked
on the network.

Worst of all, both of these designs made the network and server systems single
points of failure.  Lose a server and you lose a whole cluster of
workstations.  (But then you can go play ping-pong, so it wasn't a total loss
from a workstation users's point of view.)

It may be the case that network infrastructure capabilities have expanded to
the point where this is a lot more practical; after all, 100Mbps switched
ethernet is the norm rather than 10Mbps shared.  Unfortunately the data got
bigger too, a lot bigger, so it might be a wash.  And in terms of TCO,
switched ethernet systems add hundreds of dollars per user before you even
talk about server requirements.

Now, the PC world tried this kind of arrangement right around 1988 or 1989 and
rapidly abandoned it.  I presumed they had the same scalability problems.

There are, of course, a number of situations in which a diskless or dataless
arrangement will work very well -- for instance, if you are running
applications that require very little data.  A web application or terminal
application would be a fine example of that, hence the big NC push (Sun really
wanted to sell NCs that were little more than the same diskless workstations
they were selling years ago).  But general office environments use their PCs
for a lot of data management, and diskless/dataless arrangements don't work so
well then.  This kind of thing would be terrific at a bank though, they
usually just use PCs as terminals to back-end apps.

> Does this explain things a little better for you?

Yes, thank you.

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               17-Dec-99 08:58:25
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

Chris Stumpf wrote:
> :>These exist for Win9x too, and yet they don't affect COO noticably.  It's
just
> :>too easy to get around them.  You need the lock-down ability in the OS
proper,
> :>not layered onto the desktop, because typical applications allow numerous
> :>gateways to OS features.
> :>
> OS/2 has the hooks for C-2 level security built into the OS and there are
> several addons that take advantage of this.  OS/2 can be made secure with
> little effort as it does not have the holes that Windows does.

I wasn't aware of this.  That does help a whole lot.  I really wish they'd put
the security in the box, though, I'm really not keen on layered technologies. 
Usually there are gaps in the layers.

As for whether or not Windows has holes, well, I track NT security problems
and almost all of the problems with NT security amount to not bothering to use
the security.

> :>Your figures totally ignore the network infrastructure cost of these
systems.
> :>They are now totally dependent on the network -- and network
infrastructure is
> :>many times more expensive than local disk and slower to boot.
> :>
> :>We used to use this configuration with Sun 3/50 hardware.  It sure did
make
> :>administration easy, but we had to have many times the network and server
> :>capability to support it. [...]
>
> Now you are talking about Xwindows.  This is a different animal altogether.

No, I wasn't talking X.  This was before there was an X11; we were still using
SunView (traditional node-locked graphics).  The arrangement was identical to
what you're describing.

> The servers are doing the program execution and spewing graphics over the
> network.  I can support 30 machines on one server and not a huge server at
> that.

That number sounds realistic to me, even conservative.

> So, I realize you are talking from your experience, but the
> technologies are so very different.

Virtually identical.  Even the scalability numbers are surprisingly close.

jim

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From: jimf@frostbytes.com                               17-Dec-99 09:16:11
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com>

"Michael W. Cocke" wrote:
> >It may be hard for a lot of people to believe but you can actually do a
> >whole lot of work on your typical Linux system without ever touching a
command
> >line.  I use my Linux desktop pretty much the same as I always used my
Windows
> >desktop -- hell, KDE is practically a knockoff.
> 
> I'm aware of the GUI features available - and I keep hearing about how
> they work perfectly until they stop...  Maybe in another year or so, but
> I don't think I'm ready to recommend this quite yet.

I can understand your reticence, but believe me -- things have progressed
remarkably fast.  What you may have seen patched together even six months ago
is nowhere near what is available out-of-the-box today.  I'm not joking when I
say that Linux is progressing faster than anything in history.

> >I think you're stretching things to say that everyone would rebel because
they
> >had to type in a user name and password; they have to do that with pretty
much
> >any networking system out there.  There are certainly going to be some
issues
> >but they're no worse than teaching someone how to do basic things with WPS
and
> >typical GUI applications.  It's all basically the same stuff.
> 
> I wasn't clear.  I don't think they'd rebel because of having to type in
> a logon, I think they'd hang me because changing the OS would require a
> user interface and application software switch.  Not an option for at
> least another 15 years, preferably 20 - after I retire.

Ok, that I can really buy.  I've had to put people through OS changes three
times in my career, and they always go nuts over it -- even if the basic
interface they use really didn't change.  I think it's fear more than
anything, because it never took them too long to get used to (a few weeks even
for the slow ones) and usually they were pleased to get new capabilities
(though those took a lot longer to percolate through the user base).  The
really tough conversion was CLI to GUI; they all had to learn to use a mouse. 
Thank God that was in the days before you had to use drag-and-drop for
everything. :-)

I think you're mistaken if you think you can hold users to something similar
to what they're using now for 15 years.  The hardware is going to change
dramatically in the next few years -- much more mobile in particular, and very
network-centric.  We're in the early adopter stage of the next generation
now.  Five years from now the entire landscape of computing will look much
different.

> Your knowledge of OS/2 has a few errors in it. Everything from the
> phrase "if you're under the assumption" down is incorrect. I have file
> system security enabled right now, for example.  I should mention that
> if you chose to use FAT filesystem under OS/2, you deserve what you will
> get - lousy performance and any number of other problems.

Thanks, clearly I was operating under misconceptions.  As for FAT, I tend to
believe that you deserve what you get no matter what OS you're using it with
:-).

> >I think you've just proven my point.  Sure, the ability to run some Windows
> >apps would be valuable, but not if you got extra headaches in the mix.  And
> >let's face it, you're going to get Windows headaches if you're running any
> >kind of a Windows environment -- even an emulated one.  Plus whatever
problems
> >you already had, plus whatever problems the emulator has.
> 
> As I said, it depends on the implementation.  Look at the windows 3.1
> emulation in OS/2 - that was faster and more stable (substantially!)
> than windows native.

That wouldn't have been hard :-).  It was certainly true of Win3.1 emulation
under NT too.  But Win-OS/2 was done with the aid of source code; you can bet
your bottom dollar that you're not going to have Win9x source code to work
from, so you're fighting Microsoft all the way.

I think the only sane approach to doing this is a VM.

> >I've used products like these for more than a decade and a half and while
they
> >sometimes have their uses they do not tend to work as well as a native
> >solution -- and they tend to cost more, too.  If you need the application
bad
> >enough you should run it native.
> 
> Not while the system has to stay up...

Don't run it native on a critical system.

jim

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From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com                              17-Dec-99 14:20:13
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com (Brad Benson)

"Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> wrote:

] Brad,
] 
] We are talking about the 'rebuid' time - not boot time.
] 

So how long would it take, assuming the client was 100% blank (hard
disk failure / complete system replacement / etc.), to completely
rebuild it?  More than seconds, I would assume.  As I said, if you
discard the time needed to boot the PC and load whatever disaster
recovery software / network software / whatever, then it's possible
but under the same rules you can do that with something like InfoZip
or one of the commercial backup applications.

I'm not knocking WiseManager, I'm just trying to understand how DR is
so much faster with it than without it.

Cheers,

Brad
replace "spamtrap" with "benson" in my reply address

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From: hemo_jr@attglobal.net                             17-Dec-99 08:38:23
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: "Matt Hickman" <hemo_jr@attglobal.net>

In <zehW4odSRUfS089yn@ibm.net>, on 12/17/99 
   at 06:00 AM, jknott@ibm.net (James Knott) said:
>>
>>In any case the claim that OS/2 1.1 was the first GUI-equipped OS for the PC
>>was dead wrong.

>Anyone remember GEM from Digital Research?  It would run (walk?) on an
>XT.

Was TopView a GUI front end or was text based?

-- 
Matt Hickman     
  The death rate is the same for us as for 
  anybody...one person, one death, sooner or later.
                    - Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988)
                     _Tunnel in the Sky_ (c 1955)

** Join "The Heinleiners" a SETI@home club **
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_17222.html

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From: abeagley@optonline.net                            17-Dec-99 15:27:21
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Rumour : 64-bit OS/2 ????

From: Alan Beagley <abeagley@optonline.net>

Note the last line of the report:

"Oh yes, and all trademarks mentioned in this farce belong to their
respective companies."

Alan



Luc Van Bogaert wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> What's this about an IBM operating system for Merced? This is a joke right?
> 
> http://www.os2voice.org/VNL/past_issues/VNL1299H/vnewsfe.htm

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From: seg@NOSPAM-us.ibm.com                             17-Dec-99 09:51:03
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: FP12 - Trap 00d

From: "Scott E. Garfinkle" <seg@NOSPAM-us.ibm.com>

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:09:03 -0500, yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net wrote:

>IBM did its best to alienate a mass quantity of OS/2 users with this
>release by breaking ESS sound chip support.
Hard to know whether you're new and just haven't followed the repeated
postings about this or
you just can't understand: IBM did NOT break this device driver. It was
ALWAYS BROKEN. Prior to about FP9 it just happened by luck to work.  We have
many hacks in the operating system to work around
defects in device drivers and hardware, but this one was too much to code
around. If you're alienated, I'm sorry to hear it.
 -Scott Garfinkle   OS/2 Change Team Lead


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From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com                          17-Dec-99 16:06:22
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: donnelly@tampabay.rr.com (Buddy Donnelly)

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:26:41, "Kim Cheung" 
<kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> wrote:

> On 17 Dec 1999 14:05:22 GMT, doug@hotrocks.msfc.nasa.gov wrote:
> 
> >600MB of CD in a couple of minutes.  The diff command used is 
> 
> Okay, I can say for sure now XCOMP was the program I used.    It's extremely
> fast.

I just d/l'ed XCOMP110.ZIP but when I clicked on XCOMP.EXE to try it, 
it reset my computer.

-- 

Good luck,

Buddy

Buddy Donnelly
donnelly@tampabay.rr.com


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From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com                              17-Dec-99 15:55:19
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Rumour : 64-bit OS/2 ????

From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com (Brad Benson)

I'd be shocked.  It would strike me as going completely against IBM's
current low-end e-business focus (WinNT/Linux and Java) and would
probably fall victim to pressure from AS/400 and RS/6000 folks.

Besides, why would IBM want to create yet-another 64-bit OS?  I mean,
they've had 64-bit OS/400 for years, they have access to MS' 64-bit
efforts, they have access to linux-on-Merced, etc.  Perhaps they feel
like they didn't waste enough money on OS/2 PPC, so they'll make up
for it with this :-).


"Luc Van Bogaert" <luc.vanbogaert.nospam@pandora.be> wrote:

] Hi,
] 
] What's this about an IBM operating system for Merced? This is a joke right?
] 
] http://www.os2voice.org/VNL/past_issues/VNL1299H/vnewsfe.htm 

Cheers,

Brad
replace "spamtrap" with "benson" in my reply address

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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               17-Dec-99 07:23:17
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:43:39 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:

>OK, it's effectively a diskless workstation arrangement.  I had been
presuming
>a more standard PC setup, and my arguments were skewed as a result.
>
>Before you go off thinking that this is some cool technology IBM thought up,
>Sun did this back in the mid 80s.  For awhile there the Sun 3/50 diskless
>systems were terrifically popular -- you could save a grand or so per machine
>by not including a disk.  But there were some problems.
>

The concept of RPL is as old as there are dumb terminals.   The devel is in
the details.    We are not talking about rocket science here.     IBM had
RPL.   Novell had RPL.   Sun had RPL.    Even NT can RPL - if you believe
them.

>Total reliance on the network required a lot more network and server
bandwidth
>to support.  

Well, what is "a lot".     Let's look at that.     First of all, the Warp 4
kernel is very small - less than 1M: around 700K or so.    Once you booted,
you never need to boot the second time because you can go into sleep mode (or
roll out as CDC would call it; instant on as WsOD would call it) when you
turn off the local machine.    The next time you need to boot, it comes alive
with virtually no load on the network.

As for server loading, because your processing is decentralized (as they
should be - hello - Citrix), there is hardly any load off the server.

>Clusters didn't scale well; beyond a few tens of systems you'd
>crush a server, 

Not true with the OS/2 RPL.    I believe the largest implementation is in the
4 digit numbers.

>and single ethernet segments tended to collapse at about 15
>workstations.

Token ring would be the best - of course - let's not get into that.   With
the cost of ethernet switches these days, that's hardly an issue anymore.

>
>By the late 80s your typical workstation cluster was dataless; a local drive
>held the OS and applications and swap and you worked with data that was
>centrally stored.  That was a huge, huge win in both performance and
>scalability, but if your applications were data-hungry you still bottlenecked
>on the network.

A properly designed and implemented diskless network would not have such a
problem.    Mind you that when we say "diskless" - we are referring to the
term in a "virtual" sense - not a physical sense.    You can still have local
hard drive - to reduce network bandwidth loading - but it's a  "virtual"
drive.   What you try to do is to cut the "dependency" - not the physical
media.

>
>Worst of all, both of these designs made the network and server systems
single
>points of failure.  Lose a server and you lose a whole cluster of
>workstations.  (But then you can go play ping-pong, so it wasn't a total loss
>from a workstation users's point of view.)

I don't know who started this non-sense.    In reliability engineering, what
you want to do is to HAVE a single point of failure whereby you can
strengthen up that single point of failure to any degree of reliability.   
Server farm is one stupid idea.    There is good reason why lots of
enterprise are starting junking their server farms and gone back to
main-frames.

>
>It may be the case that network infrastructure capabilities have expanded to
>the point where this is a lot more practical; after all, 100Mbps switched
>ethernet is the norm rather than 10Mbps shared.  Unfortunately the data got
>bigger too, a lot bigger, so it might be a wash.  And in terms of TCO,
>switched ethernet systems add hundreds of dollars per user before you even
>talk about server requirements.
>
>Now, the PC world tried this kind of arrangement right around 1988 or 1989
and
>rapidly abandoned it.  I presumed they had the same scalability problems.


Time has changed.    (a) Technology caught up with things (b) whether you do
this or not, most operations depend on the network being up ANYWAY for them
to function.   So what's the difference?    I know of one case where they
distribute, replicate, and maintain a 1G database in 500 stations - in the
name of saving network bandwidth.

How studpid.

Network engineering is pretty mature.    You just have to do the job right.

>
>There are, of course, a number of situations in which a diskless or dataless
>arrangement will work very well -- for instance, if you are running
>applications that require very little data.  A web application or terminal
>application would be a fine example of that, hence the big NC push (Sun
really
>wanted to sell NCs that were little more than the same diskless workstations
>they were selling years ago).  But general office environments use their PCs
>for a lot of data management, and diskless/dataless arrangements don't work
so
>well then.  This kind of thing would be terrific at a bank though, they
>usually just use PCs as terminals to back-end apps.

For data intense situations, it makes it that much more important to have
redundency and protection of that data.    With thousands of the stations
distributed, who's managing those data?   The end-user?   Who's handling
recovery?   The end-user?   (Sure, they back up all the time, right?   We
know how useful distributed backups are).   If you're saying I can automate
it and upload them from time to time, well, guess what?    In this env,
that's done AUTOMATICALLY.

The thing is to remember is that in OS/2, the term "diskless" is virtual -
not physical.




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From: cstumpf@monmouth.com                              17-Dec-99 10:32:04
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Project Concorde - plan to run Win32 apps under OS/2

From: "Chris Stumpf" <cstumpf@monmouth.com>

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:58:50 -0500, Jim Frost wrote:


--snip--

:>> Now you are talking about Xwindows.  This is a different animal
altogether.
:>
:>No, I wasn't talking X.  This was before there was an X11; we were still
using
:>SunView (traditional node-locked graphics).  The arrangement was identical
to
:>what you're describing.
:>

Sorry, my mistake.  I'm not familiar with SunView.  Could you explian it in a
little more detail?

:>> The servers are doing the program execution and spewing graphics over the
:>> network.  I can support 30 machines on one server and not a huge server at
:>> that.
:>
:>That number sounds realistic to me, even conservative.
:>
Actually it is conservative.  The worst bottle neck in the entire system is
network bandwidth.  And that is really only a huge problem at boot time. 
During regular use, the demands on the network are not terribly great.  

:>> So, I realize you are talking from your experience, but the
:>> technologies are so very different.
:>
:>Virtually identical.  Even the scalability numbers are surprisingly close.

Again, I'm not familiar with sunview, please explain more.

		Chris Stumpf
		C.S.E. Computer Services
		Computer Consultant (OS/2, Lan, Wan, CTI)
		Serenity Systems Channel Partner
		IBM Certified Systems Expert - OS/2 Warp 4
		

web:    http://cse.anterras.net
email:	cse@anterras.net
phone: (732)496-4699



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From: lennart-remove-@plg.-remove-a.se                  17-Dec-99 16:57:13
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: "Lennart Gahm" <lennart-remove-@plg.-remove-a.se>

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 06:00:03 -0500, James Knott wrote:

>In article <38579155.BB424208@frostbytes.com>,
>Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com> wrote:
>>Dave Tholen wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jim Frost writes:
>>> 
>>> > So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
>>> > distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
>>> 
>>> I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
>>> is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
>>> That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.
>>
>>I stand corrected.
>>
>>In any case the claim that OS/2 1.1 was the first GUI-equipped OS for the PC
>>was dead wrong.
>
>Anyone remember GEM from Digital Research?  It would run (walk?) on an
>XT.

One of my customers still uses GEM, mostly on a 286. It controls a
measurement instrument from Br�l&Kj‘r. GEM isn't (wasn't) that bad but it
uses a different way to control buttons from the keyboard than OS/2 or
Windows, no Ctrl/Alt + something more. It is litte frustrating...
If DR had continued to dewelop GEM it could have been as graphical as what we
are use to to day.
GEM was an interface on top of DOS like W3.x/95/98, but they could't survive
the Microsoft monopoly. 
Bye the way, Br�l&Kj‘r could newer get their application to run reliably on
Windows in those days.
If you run GEM on modern hardware it is extremly fast, and it needs almost no
memory or big hard-disks.
 
 


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From: kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com               17-Dec-99 07:26:20
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: "Kim Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com>

On 17 Dec 1999 14:05:22 GMT, doug@hotrocks.msfc.nasa.gov wrote:

>600MB of CD in a couple of minutes.  The diff command used is 

Okay, I can say for sure now XCOMP was the program I used.    It's extremely
fast.


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From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net                            17-Dec-99 16:52:08
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: do you have OS/2 1.1?

From: jansens_at_ibm_dot_net (Karel Jansens)

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:00:03, jknott@ibm.net (James Knott) wrote:

> In article <38579155.BB424208@frostbytes.com>,
> Jim Frost <jimf@frostbytes.com> wrote:
> >Dave Tholen wrote:
> >> 
> >> Jim Frost writes:
> >> 
> >> > So not only did the PC have OSs with GUIs, it even had them with fully
> >> > distributed GUIs -- something OS/2 can't claim even today.
> >> 
> >> I guess that depends on what you call a "fully distributed" GUI.  There
> >> is a product that will let you see the OS/2 desktop with a web browser.
> >> That means you can run your OS/2 desktop from UNIX, for example.
> >
> >I stand corrected.
> >
> >In any case the claim that OS/2 1.1 was the first GUI-equipped OS for the
PC
> >was dead wrong.
> 
> Anyone remember GEM from Digital Research?  It would run (walk?) on an
> XT.
> 
GeoWorks would make an XT leave burning tyremarks next to a Windows 
3.1 AT.
It's still around, nowadays going by the name "New Deal Office" (I 
think the latest version needs at least an AT, but I'm not sure).

Karel Jansens
jansens_at_attglobal_dot_net
=======================================================
"The method employed I would gladly explain,
While I have it so clear in my head,
If I had but the time and you had but the brain -
But much yet remains to be said."

the Hunting of the Snark (Lewis Carroll)
=======================================================

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        17-Dec-99 17:03:20
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Program to Compare/Verify CD-R?

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <xvzjnvpfcnztbgbtneontrqrygnargpbz.fmvx8h2.pminews@news.pacbell.net>, "Kim
Cheung" <kimwaicSpamGoToGarbage@deltanet.com> writes:
>On 17 Dec 1999 14:05:22 GMT, doug@hotrocks.msfc.nasa.gov wrote:
>
>>600MB of CD in a couple of minutes.  The diff command used is 
>
>Okay, I can say for sure now XCOMP was the program I used.    It's extremely
>fast.
>
>

just searched Hobbes for xcomp....

No files found

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From: nospam_timur@tabi.org                             17-Dec-99 17:37:22
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Sound Cards and OS/2 (Creative PCI 128?)

From: Timur Tabi <nospam_timur@tabi.org>

In article <GmI%3.6937$VA6.33549@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
  "Kerwin" <kerwinlu@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I saw an article in Taiwan's OS/2 newsgroup as few weeks ago,
> they said that because Creative&Aureal released their driver source
code,
> one company called Theta Band Software decided
> that they are going to write OS/2 drivers for Creative&Aureal's chips.
> But they are not going to release the source code.
> And, if there are any other companies who want to write OS/2 drivers
for
> these chips,
> Thera Band Software will never write the OS/2 drivers again
anymore.....
>
> Does anybody know it's ture or not?

It is, kinda.  TBS said they would look into writing a driver, but time
constraints from other projects would be an issue.  Everything else is
true, though.  Theta Band Software has a "no-compete" business model.
They don't release software that competes with other software.  In the
OS/2 market, releasing a product that competes with another product is
suicide.

--
Remove "nospam_" from my email address when replying
Timur "too sexy for my code" Tabi, timur@tabi.org


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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From: abeagley@optonline.net                            17-Dec-99 18:27:17
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:15
Subj: Re: Cool.. Warp 4 no problems with Y2K

From: Alan Beagley <abeagley@optonline.net>

The software may be fine, but it is quite likely that you will find that
if you turn off a computer that old and turn it back on again, the date
will be some time in 1980 (Jan 4??). That is the case with our 486
machines with motherboards and BIOSes dating from 1992/94.

Alan


Jim Backus wrote:
> 
> Haven't done a test under OS/2 but I'm confident that my 386DX40 running
> Warp 3 with FP40 and a couple of other fixes will work flawlessly after
> 31st December ... so less of the old Pentium 166 :-) [which BTW is about
> the same spec as my main PC]

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From: ewilson@usa.net                                   17-Dec-99 13:28:26
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: MO Disk & HPFS

From: work <ewilson@usa.net>

I have been successfully using the Fujitsu 640SE drive for quite some
time on OS/2. The disks are partitioned (1 partition) and formatted for
HPFS. I have a mixture or 128, 230, and 540 disks. All working great and
very reliable. So what you are attempting is very possible!

You need to disable by rem'ing out all OEM drivers for this device.  
Only use the drivers from Sam Detwiler's package NEWDASD2. I think these
drivers have now been incorporated into the fixpacks (Driver fixpacks).
Here are the pertinent statements from my config.sys:

BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /rf /of               (these switches came from
                                           Sam's package) 
rem DEVICE=C:\OS2\BOOT\OPTICAL.DMD /V
BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
BASEDEV=AHA152X.ADD                       (running on PCMCIA card in
                                           thinkpad)  

 

Alex Blair wrote:
> 
> I am trying again to get HPFS support for a Fujitsu Dynamo 640 SE drive with
> the n512dasd.flt file as suggested by others. All is well when using the
> Fujitsu driver (modisk.sys) except that it supports only FAT drives.
> 
> I have tried this on 2 systems but cannot get either to function properly.
> The last attempts on both systems show that a removable device is
virtualized
> at boot time. However, the device is recognized as an ATAPI CD ROM drive,
not
> an MO drive (or is the n512dasd.flt virtualizing the CDROM drive a second
> time?). What might I be doing wrong?
> 
> Here are the pertinent config.sys lines from the home office system in
> (relative) order of appearance in the config.sys file :
> 
> REM ** Optical Drive **
> rem BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /SHARE
> BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /ALL
> 
> REM ** For HPFS support on Optical Drives **
> BASEDEV=N512DASD.FLT /v
> 
> REM /rf Switch for Removeable Media
> REM BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /rf
> 
> REM /of Switch for Optical Media
> BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /of /rf
> REM ** I have tried also the /of swith alone **
> 
> REM ** SCSI Card **
> BASEDEV=SIGSCSI.ADD
> BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
> 
> REM ** Fujitsu 3.5" SCSI MO Disk Device Driver (ver 2.1 US) **
> rem DEVICE=\OS2\MODISK.SYS /R1
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Alex Blair
> ablair@ibm.net

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From: ewilson@usa.net                                   17-Dec-99 13:35:09
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: MO Disk & HPFS

From: work <ewilson@usa.net>

Forgot to add. Also in the NEWDASD package were:

BASEDEV=IBMIDECD.FLT
BASEDEV=IBM1S506.ADD


 

work wrote:
> 
> I have been successfully using the Fujitsu 640SE drive for quite some
> time on OS/2. The disks are partitioned (1 partition) and formatted for
> HPFS. I have a mixture or 128, 230, and 540 disks. All working great and
> very reliable. So what you are attempting is very possible!
> 
> You need to disable by rem'ing out all OEM drivers for this device.
> Only use the drivers from Sam Detwiler's package NEWDASD2. I think these
> drivers have now been incorporated into the fixpacks (Driver fixpacks).
> Here are the pertinent statements from my config.sys:
> 
> BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /rf /of               (these switches came from
>                                            Sam's package)
> rem DEVICE=C:\OS2\BOOT\OPTICAL.DMD /V
> BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
> BASEDEV=AHA152X.ADD                       (running on PCMCIA card in
>                                            thinkpad)
> 
> 
> 
> Alex Blair wrote:
> >
> > I am trying again to get HPFS support for a Fujitsu Dynamo 640 SE drive
with
> > the n512dasd.flt file as suggested by others. All is well when using the
> > Fujitsu driver (modisk.sys) except that it supports only FAT drives.
> >
> > I have tried this on 2 systems but cannot get either to function properly.
> > The last attempts on both systems show that a removable device is
virtualized
> > at boot time. However, the device is recognized as an ATAPI CD ROM drive,
not
> > an MO drive (or is the n512dasd.flt virtualizing the CDROM drive a second
> > time?). What might I be doing wrong?
> >
> > Here are the pertinent config.sys lines from the home office system in
> > (relative) order of appearance in the config.sys file :
> >
> > REM ** Optical Drive **
> > rem BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /SHARE
> > BASEDEV=OS2ASPI.DMD /ALL
> >
> > REM ** For HPFS support on Optical Drives **
> > BASEDEV=N512DASD.FLT /v
> >
> > REM /rf Switch for Removeable Media
> > REM BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /rf
> >
> > REM /of Switch for Optical Media
> > BASEDEV=OS2DASD.DMD /of /rf
> > REM ** I have tried also the /of swith alone **
> >
> > REM ** SCSI Card **
> > BASEDEV=SIGSCSI.ADD
> > BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD
> >
> > REM ** Fujitsu 3.5" SCSI MO Disk Device Driver (ver 2.1 US) **
> > rem DEVICE=\OS2\MODISK.SYS /R1
> >
> > Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Alex Blair
> > ablair@ibm.net

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From: as@sci.fi                                         16-Dec-99 20:19:24
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: Bug in mkisofs with Joliet FS - missing files?

From: Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi>

mcbrides@erols.com (Jerry McBride) writes:

> No. But just trying to understand the syntax of declaring what directory you
> want copied and where-to is enough to make a guy drink. I undestand that
these
> utilities (mkisofs and cdrecod) are being ported from the unix world, but
man
> have a heart for us OS/2 users... :')

Well, maybe one of the frontends would make it easier for you? I'm a
Unix person, so I don't have a problem using mkisofs and cdrecord.
 
For the original poster, there have been bugs in mkisofs concerning
directories, but usually when making multi-session discs. I don't know
what the problem is, but if you can make a specific example that the
author (or the guy who ported it to OS/2) can duplicate it, it'll
probably get fixed.

-- 
Anssi Saari - as@sci.fi

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From: johnrsellers@compuserve.com                       17-Dec-99 13:40:11
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: +++GET YOUR FREE PENTIUM CELERON-300+++____________________________

From: "John R. Sellers" <johnrsellers@compuserve.com>

PC for$9.99?  It's just a bunch o' bullsh!t anyway.  DUH.


--
===========
"As a human being, one has been endowed with just enough intelligence to be
able to see clearly how utterly inadequate that intelligence is when
confronted with what exists." -- Albert Einstein

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."  -- Will Rogers

I may be insane, but I'm not stupid. -- Me (added on a whim)

"iobus" <iobus@iobox.fi> wrote in message
news:c7ek5s4sbd04aovqlfsotpnc8nj1il6or9@4ax.com...
>
> So is it Pentium or Celeron? Can't be both at the same time!
>
> (God damn these moron cheaters!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
> The Winter War
> http://tiedotus01.mil.fi/servlets/Timer?book=talvisota_eng


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From: as@sci.fi                                         16-Dec-99 20:14:13
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: ExaByte 8200 & tar

From: Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi>

jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak) writes:

> Has anyone managed to use tar (part of GTAK258) with an ExaByte 8200
> tape drive?

Yes. Works fine here. Free backup software for a free tape drive :)

However, I thought tar is not part of GTAK? I at least have downloaded
a separate tar package.

-- 
Anssi Saari - as@sci.fi

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        17-Dec-99 22:02:08
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: ExaByte 8200 & tar

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

In <aszovapxbx.fsf@sci.fi>, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> writes:
>jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak) writes:
>
>> Has anyone managed to use tar (part of GTAK258) with an ExaByte 8200
>> tape drive?
>
>Yes. Works fine here. Free backup software for a free tape drive :)

It just won't work here... :-(  Maybe it just doesn't like my IBM SCSI
controller,
although PSNS from WSeB works fine, but I would like to be able to share
tapes between OS/2 and AIX.

Some of the 'TAPE' functions work - rew, st, unload. But read and write don't.

>However, I thought tar is not part of GTAK? I at least have downloaded
>a separate tar package.

GTAR contains the tar program, and GTAK has the device drivers for tape
devices.

>
>-- 
>Anssi Saari - as@sci.fi
>

--
John

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From: mbatey@cixno.spamco.uk                            17-Dec-99 22:57:25
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: Java for Netscape Comm. 4.6.1

From: mbatey@cixno.spamco.uk (Maurice Batey)

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:12:59, karen.l.mansbridge-wood@worldnet.att.net
wrote:

> http://service.software.ibm.com/asd-bin/doc/index.htm
>  
> and then because 1.1.8 is a tad unstable, go to:
>  
> ftp://service.boulder.ibm.com/software/java/fixes/os2/11/118/
>  
> and download the latest fixes for it.

Many thanks, Karen!

If 1.1.8 is unstable, would you recommend 1.1.7 instead?!
(Would going for 1.1.8 make all that difference?) 

Maurice Batey 
(Change "no.spam" to "." in E-mail address.)

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From: piquant00@uswestmail.net                          17-Dec-99 23:00:03
  To: All                                               17-Dec-99 20:07:16
Subj: Re: Warp v4 installed & FP9 installed - now what?

From: piquant00@uswestmail.net (Annie K.)

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:10:21, Jim Danvers <jim.danvers@mindex.com> 
wrote:

:I see a lot of chatter in these groups regarding the current
:version of the IP stack, and other various peices that make up the OS -
:how do I tell what revision of components I have running on this box
:now? 

 syslevel.exe will give you the version/revision of every installed 
component. inetver.exe will give you just the tcp/ip stack version.

-- 
Klaatu barada nikto

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