
                   comp.os.os2.beta                 (Usenet)

                 Saturday, 28-Aug-1999 to Friday, 03-Sep-1999

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: arnews@dsgml.com                                  27-Aug-99 19:07:03
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 03:31:24
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: Ariel <arnews@dsgml.com>

On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote:

[cookie monster "bug"]

> Alan Boritz wrote:

> In fact, we've been told by our sources at Netscape that they have no
> plans to fix this problem for their Communicator 4.7 release either.

Did netscape say why they aren't going to fix it? I'm just curious. It's
not like this bug actually matters, it's totally a non-issue. But it is a
bug. (Also another question for you at end of message.)

The bug is a non issue because it hardly has any effects. First the
"security" problem they quote is not one. A correctly programmed site will
not leak any info. If the site is programmed wrong then complain to the
authors. Remember that cookies do not belong to you, they belong to the
site that sent them. And it's that site that determines what happens to the
cookie.

If they set the cookie to distribute to sites that shouldn't get it - it's
their fault. If you trust the site with your personal info, you also have
to trust them that they program correctly, if they don't, then don't go to
the site. It's simply a matter of do you, or do you not, trust the site
you visit. If yes, give them info, if no, don't.

The other problem they mention, the speed slow down also matters little.
Remember that most of the wait is for download time, but the cookies are
going upstream - which is mostly unused. It does cause a small lag at the
start of a page I suppose. But you should lamblast any sites that set
cookies like this - or stop visiting them. (Of course you're going to tell
me that I shouldn't have to check the cookies from sites I visit, and I'm
not going to have an argument in return :)

Oh well, this will all disappear with netscape 5 anyway, so I wouldn't over
worry about it.

Question to the OS/2 Netscape team, what are you (your team) planning to
do about netscape 5? Once it's released your going to be out of a job.

(I'm hoping you'll say IBM will donate (your) time to the OS/2 Mozilla
porting team.)


	-Ariel

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From: mike.luther@ziplog.com                            28-Aug-99 00:25:01
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 03:31:25
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: mike.luther@ziplog.com

In <37C6DEBC.D193810B@NOSPAMus.ibm.com>, "Jeffrey S. Kobal"
<jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com> writes:

Jeff ..

>Apparently, they didn't.  At least not completely.  Whatever fix they
>did make for 4.51, we already have by default.
>
>> Stop making excuses and fix the damn thing already.
>
>No.
>
>Jeffrey S. Kobal
>IBM Corporation
>Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team

It would seem that the most value for the development time and the users
would be to be able to implement a 'trusted' cookie site from within
Netscape... rather than go to third party help for a simple approach at
this..

Logic presents that there are some sites and operations related to
cookies which are of value.  What we need is to be able to not only see
that the request had been made, but what it does, in simple terms ..
in at least quasi-real-time.

If we as users are satisfied with what we have learned, we then simply
add that site to a 'trusted' site list.  Then, if the cookie doesn't change
from what we 'approved' we never see the issue challenged again as a
Netscape user.

There are some sites for which I really want to enable cookies.  That
said, the only way I can now do it, is to set the preference for enable
by question, and ...  even then, I have to do it over and over again
every time I access the site..

It would seem somewhat simple and effective for us to expand the curent
'solution' as in the above.  My bet is the user pack would be pleased
with that, if you could do it...

  Thanks for a WONDERFUL improvement so far in the latest beta ...


//-----------------------------
Mike.Luther@ziplog.com
Mike.Luther@f3000.n117.z1.fidonet.org


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From: jmprice@calweb.com                                27-Aug-99 17:36:24
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 03:31:25
Subj: Re: NS4.61b2 & Printing

From: John M Price PhD <jmprice@calweb.com>

In comp.os.os2.beta article <mZ2sFGRiX5iM-pn2-ene5rnGrqoHM@beehive> Jerry
<jbarring@arn.net> wrote:
: On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:17:23, John M Price PhD <jmprice@calweb.com> 
: wrote:

:> 
:> I don't know if this is new or not - I skipped the printing thread a bit
:> ago (silly me!).
:> 
:> I needed some maps, so I went to mapquest.  When I printed them out, the
:> first page was fine, but alas, all that was on the second page was a huge
:> 2 of 2.  No text routes, etc.  Nada but the 2 of 2.
:> 
:> Anything I can do on this?  
:> 
:> Warp 4, FP11
:> HP697C with the HP697C driver of version ???.??? 
:> Printer specific format is checked.

: I get the same thing whenever the second page has nothing on it.  I 

I get this with data on the page.  For instance, the mapquest had graphics
on page 1 (I think the problem is here actually) and then the text
description on page 2.  I got a box, but nothing in it.

It does not seem to happen in mostly text pages - I say mostly as in fact
there are ads everywhere.

: suppose it comes from an unnecessary form feed or linefeed being the 
: only thing on the page.  It never happens when the second page has 
: prinable information.  I just ignore it.  You might try setting the 
: margins, if it gets excessively wasteful.

: Best of Luck
: Jerry



-- 
John M. Price, PhD                                     jmprice@calweb.com
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling!      |      PGP Key on request or FTP!
  Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. 
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated          Atheist# 683
                     Syndicate Section III - Number 1

The only good is knowledge -
  the only evil ignorance.
       - Chinese Fortune Cookie

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From: jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com                           27-Aug-99 19:24:21
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 03:31:25
Subj: Re: Table rendering 

From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" <jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com>

Hans Peter Holm wrote:

> Perhaps unrelated to this, but still about nested tables:
> http://mrshowbiz.go.com/news/Todays_Stories/990823/sandler082399.html
> - Communicator can't mark and copy the text in the page.

Yes, it is unrelated, but interesting nevertheless.  This appears to be
something
in the Netscape layout engine; the same behavior occurs with the Windows
version of the product.  I was able to narrow it down to a very small
scenario:

<HTML>
<table align=left>
<td>
Can you select this text?
</td>
</table>
</html>

If you put the above in an HTML file, you won't be able to select the text
when you view that file through the Netscape browser (Windows or OS/2).
You can safely remove the </td> and </html> tags without a problem, but
removing anything else (that would still leave a valid HTML layout) will
make the problem go away.  Apparently, the behavior is specific to having
table data within a table that is left-aligned.

What this would normally mean is that the rest of the page is meant to be
laid out "around" this table, with the table on the left side.  When this is
done, you apparently can not select the text within that table.

Jeffrey S. Kobal
IBM Corporation
Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team


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From: jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com                           27-Aug-99 19:41:15
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 03:31:25
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" <jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com>

Ariel wrote:

> Did netscape say why they aren't going to fix it? I'm just curious.

No, they didn't.  I believe they would fix it if they didn't have more
important things to spend time and money doing.

> The bug is a non issue because it hardly has any effects.

Precisely why there hasn't been a big push to get it fixed.

> Question to the OS/2 Netscape team, what are you (your team) planning
> to do about netscape 5? Once it's released your going to be out of a job.

Out of a job?  Nah.  There will still be updates to the 4.x line, even
after Netscape 5 is released; whether or not those updates will be
ported to the OS/2 platform is undetermined at this time.  Also, there
are many IBM-owned technologies that our customers would require
be in the OS/2 browser if they were to move up to an OS/2 Mozilla
version, so IBM would need to be involved in that, to some extent.

> (I'm hoping you'll say IBM will donate (your) time to the OS/2 Mozilla
> porting team.)

I don't know about "donating" any time, but you can be sure that if
there is a business reason for IBM to pursue an OS/2 version of
Netscape 5, then at least some part of our development team will
be called upon for involvement in that project.

Jeffrey S. Kobal
IBM Corporation
Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team


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From: rkal@image.dk                                     28-Aug-99 13:08:23
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 10:43:14
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 beta 2 and Java 1.1.8

From: Rasmus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kalles=F8e?= van der Loo <rkal@image.dk>

I, also is having a lot of problems with Beta2 and Java 1.1.8
On one machine, where Java 1.1.7a is currenly installed, I can't even
installed 1.1.8 after "opgrading" to Netsacpe 4.61 Beta2.

My bank here in Denmark, has a Java program. It dosen't work with Beta2
and Java 1.1.8.

/Rasmus

Khairil Yusof wrote:

> Having a few problems displaying some basic applets:
>
> 08-20-1999  03:16:30  SYS3175  PID 004f  TID 000f  Slot 00a6
> E:\INTERNET\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM\NETSCAPE.EXE
> c0000005
> 1d350136
> P1=00000001  P2=00000002  P3=XXXXXXXX  P4=XXXXXXXX
> EAX=00000002  EBX=0441f818  ECX=0dd00000  EDX=0441f808
> ESI=013d1aec  EDI=0441f808
> DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=1fffffff
> ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=1fffffff
> FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
> GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
> CS:EIP=005b:1d350136  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=1fffffff
> SS:ESP=0053:0441f7b0  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=1fffffff
> EBP=0441f7dc  FLG=00012206
>
> JAVAX.DLL 0001:00040136
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 08-20-1999  03:17:27  SYS3175  PID 0051  TID 0001  Slot 00a8
> E:\INTERNET\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM\NETSCAPE.EXE
> c0000005
> 1dbb17c0
> P1=00000000  P2=ffffffff  P3=XXXXXXXX  P4=XXXXXXXX
> EAX=0413727c  EBX=0413727c  ECX=b27b7a8f  EDX=00000001
> ESI=0413f67c  EDI=00000000
> DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=1fffffff
> ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=1fffffff
> FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
> GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
> CS:EIP=005b:1dbb17c0  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=1fffffff
> SS:ESP=0053:007c5cd0  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=1fffffff
> EBP=007c5d54  FLG=00013286
>
> JPEG3246.DLL 0001:000017c0
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 08-20-1999  03:18:17  SYS3175  PID 0053  TID 000c  Slot 00ac
> E:\INTERNET\NETSCAPE\PROGRAM\NETSCAPE.EXE
> c0000005
> 1d34a191
> P1=00000001  P2=00000034  P3=XXXXXXXX  P4=XXXXXXXX
> EAX=035f0d11  EBX=041ff238  ECX=041ff238  EDX=041feff0
> ESI=00000004  EDI=041ff02c
> DS=0053  DSACC=d0f3  DSLIM=1fffffff
> ES=0053  ESACC=d0f3  ESLIM=1fffffff
> FS=150b  FSACC=00f3  FSLIM=00000030
> GS=0000  GSACC=****  GSLIM=********
> CS:EIP=005b:1d34a191  CSACC=d0df  CSLIM=1fffffff
> SS:ESP=0053:041fef88  SSACC=d0f3  SSLIM=1fffffff
> EBP=041feff0  FLG=00012216
>
> JAVAX.DLL 0001:0003a191

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From: rjlockie@home.com                                 28-Aug-99 14:31:13
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 14:21:24
Subj: NS461

From: rjlockie@home.com (Bob Lockie)

http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm

This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).

I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.



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From: mikus@bga.com                                     28-Aug-99 08:36:17
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 16:46:25
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 download failures

From: mikus@bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs)

Due to a timing incompatibility between my ancient communications
adapter and TCP/IP 4.2, my downloads experience LOTS of fcs errors.
Sooner or later, ALL activity on the communications link will cease,
and the NS 4.61B2 download will just "sit there" (doing nothing).

I let it sit.  After 4+ minutes, the download starts up again (by
itself).  I do not know if this EXCESSIVE "Time Out" is embedded
within my communications driver, or within TCP/IP 4.2, or within
Netscape 4.61.  But I do *not* get these 4+ minute download time
outs, EXCEPT [for both http and ftp downloads] with Netscape 4.61 .

mikus  (Warp 4 + FP#11, WR08620, Java 1.1.8)

p.s.  I've got an idle-priority task running which eats up EVERY
      spare CPU cycle - my system almost never goes into waitstate.


In article <M3mPvLdzxX1t-pn2-7xwryd6XEdHw@localhost>,
rjf@yyycomasia.com (rj friedman) wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:13:56, Henrik Aaen
> <haa@lyngso-industri.dk> wrote:
>
> My experience is, that if you are operating the system while the
> download is ongoing, there is a bigger risc, that the download fails,
> than if you let the download run to completion before doing anything
> else. Problems handling the cache ???
>
>
> My *impression* (based on no scientific evidence - just my
> observations of my numerous failed dls vs. my numerous
> successful ones), is that the dl fails either because the
> transfer falls below a certain speed, or it crosses a `speed
> to time' ratio threshold that Netscape will not tolerate.
>

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From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca                           28-Aug-99 15:19:26
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 16:46:26
Subj: Re: NS461

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)

On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:31:27, rjlockie@home.com (Bob Lockie) wrote:

> 
> http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm
> 
> This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).
> 
> I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.
> 

I looked at the page source and it appears to be missing
the final </TD> </TR> </TABLE> at the end of a table
definition.

When I inserted them into the page source the contents
display with Beta2 4.61

Lorne Sunley

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From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              28-Aug-99 10:46:22
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 16:46:26
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.9908271850480.7406-100000@shell3.shore.net>, Ariel
<arnews@dsgml.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote:

(Jeffrey's post never made it to Supernews, so I can't see his reply)

>[cookie monster "bug"]
>
>> Alan Boritz wrote:
>
>> In fact, we've been told by our sources at Netscape that they have no
>> plans to fix this problem for their Communicator 4.7 release either.

Netscape has stated they fixed that particular bug:

    "The Cookie Monster bug affects all existing versions of Netscape
     Navigator (2.x through 4.x) on all platforms up until 4.51 when
     it was fixed..."

Is someone at Netscape NOW saying that they DIDN'T fix it, but told the media
that they DID?

>Did netscape say why they aren't going to fix it? I'm just curious. It's
>not like this bug actually matters, it's totally a non-issue. But it is a
>bug. (Also another question for you at end of message.)
>
>The bug is a non issue because it hardly has any effects. First the
>"security" problem they quote is not one.

When a site retrieves a piece of information from your browser that it has no
rights to, that's generally considered a security threat.

>A correctly programmed site will not leak any info.

We're not discussing a site incursion, but a *client* incursion caused by a
rogue site.

>If the site is programmed wrong then complain to the
>authors. Remember that cookies do not belong to you, they belong to the
>site that sent them. And it's that site that determines what happens to the
>cookie.

Ariel, you're clueless. <sigh>

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From: jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com                           28-Aug-99 11:45:07
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 16:46:26
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" <jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com>

Alan Boritz wrote:

> Netscape has stated they fixed that particular bug:
>
>     "The Cookie Monster bug affects all existing versions of Netscape
>      Navigator (2.x through 4.x) on all platforms up until 4.51 when
>      it was fixed..."
>
> Is someone at Netscape NOW saying that they DIDN'T fix it, but told the
media
> that they DID?

You haven't even read the Cookie Monster webpage that you've been
posting a link to, have you?

Here's my response AGAIN.  Hopefully one of these will beat the odds
and make it past the conspiracy that appears to be blocking my messages
from your reader.  (Killfile, perhaps?  Maybe someone else here should
post the same thing again.... or several people, just to be sure.)


Alan Boritz wrote:

> >(2) That page says right on it that Netscape has this bug, too.
>
> Wrong.

"Wrong"?  What do you mean "Wrong"???  Here is a direct quote from that
page ( http://www.paradise.net.nz/~glineham/cookiemonster.html ):

"Netscape claims on their bug report page (see below) that this bug has been
fixed since Navigator 4.51.  This is untrue.  The bug has not been fixed, and
there is no intention by Netscape/Mozilla ever to fix this problem."

That line appears right at the top of the page, so I don't see how you could
have missed it.  Further down, in the list of "Vulnerable applications", they
list Netscape 4.61 "and all future [versions]".

> Netscape apparently fixed it back in March, according to this tech support
> note at http://help.netscape.com/kb/client/981231-1.html:

Again, read above until it sinks in.  The "bug report page" to which they
refer is the exact page you're talking about.  Apparently, the fix in March
didn't solve the problem, at least not according to the Cookie Monster
page you've been touting.

In fact, we've been told by our sources at Netscape that they have no
plans to fix this problem for their Communicator 4.7 release either.

> Netscape says they fixed it.

Apparently, they didn't.  At least not completely.  Whatever fix they
did make for 4.51, we already have by default.

> Stop making excuses and fix the damn thing already.

No.

Jeffrey S. Kobal
IBM Corporation
Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team


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From: OS2Guy@WarpCity.com                               28-Aug-99 10:05:28
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 16:46:26
Subj: Re: NS461

From: Tim Martin <OS2Guy@WarpCity.com>

Lorne Sunley wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:31:27, rjlockie@home.com (Bob Lockie) wrote:
>
> >
> > http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm
> >
> > This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).
> >
> > I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.
> >
>
> I looked at the page source and it appears to be missing
> the final </TD> </TR> </TABLE> at the end of a table
> definition.
>
> When I inserted them into the page source the contents
> display with Beta2 4.61
>
> Lorne Sunley

That's it.  Here is the page's last few html lines:

<FONT SIZE="-1"><FONT COLOR="#000000">
<BR>
<FONT SIZE="+3"><B>Compunation Computers Incorporated</B></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>

And when run through 4.61 composer the following is automatically
added:

<font color="#000000"><font size=+3>Compunation Computers
Incorporated</font></font></b></td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>

The page's original html coding is incorrect and includes
some unnecessary coding and a lack of required completion
coding.

There is a failure to close the table/row and full table itself.

Tim Martin
The OS/2 Guy
Warp City
http://warpcity.com
"E-ride the wild surf to Warp City!"

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From: aboritz@cybernex.net                              28-Aug-99 13:22:11
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 21:13:09
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: aboritz@cybernex.net (Alan Boritz)

In article <37C73039.C31EC5D1@NOSPAMus.ibm.com>, "Jeffrey S. Kobal"
<jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>Ariel wrote:
>
>> Did netscape say why they aren't going to fix it? I'm just curious.
>
>No, they didn't.  I believe they would fix it if they didn't have more
>important things to spend time and money doing.

Wait a minute, Netscape said they DID fix it:

(from http://help.netscape.com/kb/client/981231-1.html)

"Cookie Monster Bug

          Issue: 981231-1Product: Communicator, Navigator
                                  Gold, Navigator
                                  International, Navigator,
                                  CGI Programming
        Created: 12/31/98Version: All
            Last 03/16/99     OS: All
        Updated:

Topic:

The Cookie Monster bug affects all existing versions of Netscape
Navigator (2.x through 4.x) on all platforms up until 4.51 when
it was fixed. Although Netscape has verified this bug, no
customer incidents of lost or stolen data have been reported to
Netscape..."

Exactly WHO at Netscape told you that it WASN'T fixed?

>> The bug is a non issue because it hardly has any effects.
>
>Precisely why there hasn't been a big push to get it fixed.

It's a significant issue if Netscape told the media, and continues to tell
Netscape users, that it was fixed, if it really wasn't.  What's the real story
here?

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From: jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com                           28-Aug-99 13:27:14
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 21:13:09
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 Beta 2: STILL No Cookie Security

From: "Jeffrey S. Kobal" <jkobal@NOSPAMus.ibm.com>

Alan Boritz wrote:

> Wait a minute, Netscape said they DID fix it:

And they probably thought they did, but only fixed part of it,
or the fix wasn't effective.  It wouldn't be the first time a
software company put in a fix for a problem that didn't fix
the entire problem.

Don't believe everything you read on the web; including
6-month-old press releases.  One doesn't go back and change
the press release when some new information arises.

> Exactly WHO at Netscape told you that it WASN'T fixed?

That's irrelevant.  I've been told that it hasn't been fixed, and
the cookie monster web page you've been linking to says that
it hasn't been fixed.  For some reason, however, you continue
to believe that it has been, in spite of all of the information to
the contrary, including the very web page you keep posting.

> It's a significant issue if Netscape told the media, and continues to tell
> Netscape users, that it was fixed, if it really wasn't.  What's the real
story
> here?

They told the media what they believed to be true at the time.
Just because that press release still exists on the web, that is
not the same as "continuing" to tell users that it was fixed.
The real story is that you are making a lot of noise based on
incorrect information about an unimportant problem.

Jeffrey S. Kobal
IBM Corporation
Netscape Communicator for OS/2 - Development Team


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From: lifedata@xxvol.com                                28-Aug-99 14:35:13
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 21:13:09
Subj: Re: NS461

From: lifedata@xxvol.com

rjlockie@home.com (Bob Lockie) said:

>http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm

>This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).

Same here - except for a red bar on the left, assumedly the
background graphic.

Jim L
Remove XX from address to Email
More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do.


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From: brewers@bluefeather.com                           28-Aug-99 18:50:13
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 21:13:09
Subj: Re: NS461

From: "Bluefeather" <brewers@bluefeather.com>

On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:16:41 -0500, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote:

:>
:>Bob Lockie wrote:
:>
:>> http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm
:>>
:>> This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).
:>
:>Yup.  Just the red column on the left, with no text.  They
:>didn't close the <TABLE> with a </TABLE> tag.
:>
:>> I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.
:>
:>Nope.  Blank page on Windows (Netscape) as well.  MSIE
:>might be more lenient with incorrect HTML programming.
:>
Yes, this is all true. (Opera, MSIE, even IBM WebEx ;-) will display the 
following markup, but not Netscape (any version/platform that I checked)

<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Test of Netscape 4.61 Beta2</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#BBBBBB">

<table>
<tr>
<TD>This is the first of two lines. Do you see the second?</td>
</tr>
</table>

<table>
<tr>
<td>This is the second of two lines.</td>
</tr>

</BODY></HTML>

This is a very common problem out there on the net (and getting worse) 
how about getting together with the Netscape programmers and 
"fixing" this.




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From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca                           28-Aug-99 19:37:02
  To: All                                               28-Aug-99 21:13:09
Subj: Re: NS461

From: lsunley@mb.sympatico.ca (Lorne Sunley)

On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:50:26, "Bluefeather" <brewers@bluefeather.com> 
wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:16:41 -0500, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote:
> 
> :>
> :>Bob Lockie wrote:
> :>
> :>> http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm
> :>>
> :>> This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).
> :>
> :>Yup.  Just the red column on the left, with no text.  They
> :>didn't close the <TABLE> with a </TABLE> tag.
> :>
> :>> I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.
> :>
> :>Nope.  Blank page on Windows (Netscape) as well.  MSIE
> :>might be more lenient with incorrect HTML programming.
> :>
> Yes, this is all true. (Opera, MSIE, even IBM WebEx ;-) will display the 
> following markup, but not Netscape (any version/platform that I checked)
> 
> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Test of Netscape 4.61 Beta2</TITLE></HEAD>
> <BODY bgcolor="#BBBBBB">
> 
> <table>
> <tr>
> <TD>This is the first of two lines. Do you see the second?</td>
> </tr>
> </table>
> 
> <table>
> <tr>
> <td>This is the second of two lines.</td>
> </tr>
> 
> </BODY></HTML>
> 
> This is a very common problem out there on the net (and getting worse) 
> how about getting together with the Netscape programmers and 
> "fixing" this.
> 

It would seem to me that "fixing" this would require that the
rendering engine for HTML force </????> tags for any outstanding
<????> tags when an </BODY> or </HTML> tag is received.

If that was done is there any way to "AUTOMATICALLY"
generate a MAILTO: directed to the web master of the
site hosting the invalid HTML page and auto-generate
a couple of thousand reminders that their pages do not
follow the standard markup rules :-) ?????

Lorne Sunley


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From: kris@dgraph.com                                   28-Aug-99 22:57:07
  To: All                                               29-Aug-99 15:49:08
Subj: Re: NS 4.61 download failures

From: Kris Kadela <kris@dgraph.com>

Oh man, TCP/IP 4.1/4.2 is another can of worms. I had so many problems
with those that I simply went back to 4.0. All is well now :)

Mikus Grinbergs wrote:
> 
> Due to a timing incompatibility between my ancient communications
> adapter and TCP/IP 4.2, my downloads experience LOTS of fcs errors.
> Sooner or later, ALL activity on the communications link will cease,
> and the NS 4.61B2 download will just "sit there" (doing nothing).
> 
> I let it sit.  After 4+ minutes, the download starts up again (by
> itself).  I do not know if this EXCESSIVE "Time Out" is embedded
> within my communications driver, or within TCP/IP 4.2, or within
> Netscape 4.61.  But I do *not* get these 4+ minute download time
> outs, EXCEPT [for both http and ftp downloads] with Netscape 4.61 .
> 
> mikus  (Warp 4 + FP#11, WR08620, Java 1.1.8)
> 
> p.s.  I've got an idle-priority task running which eats up EVERY
>       spare CPU cycle - my system almost never goes into waitstate.
> 
> In article <M3mPvLdzxX1t-pn2-7xwryd6XEdHw@localhost>,
> rjf@yyycomasia.com (rj friedman) wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:13:56, Henrik Aaen
> > <haa@lyngso-industri.dk> wrote:
> >
> > My experience is, that if you are operating the system while the
> > download is ongoing, there is a bigger risc, that the download fails,
> > than if you let the download run to completion before doing anything
> > else. Problems handling the cache ???
> >
> >
> > My *impression* (based on no scientific evidence - just my
> > observations of my numerous failed dls vs. my numerous
> > successful ones), is that the dl fails either because the
> > transfer falls below a certain speed, or it crosses a `speed
> > to time' ratio threshold that Netscape will not tolerate.
> >

-- 

**********************
DigiGraph Technical
http://www.dgraph.com
**********************

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From: jpedone_no_spam@flash.net                         29-Aug-99 11:15:04
  To: All                                               29-Aug-99 15:49:08
Subj: Re: NS461

From: jpedone_no_spam@flash.net

In <oerjrefoyhrsrngurepbz.fh6uzr0.pminews@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>,
"Bluefeather" <brewers@bluefeather.com> writes:
>On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:16:41 -0500, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote:
>
>:>
>:>Bob Lockie wrote:
>:>
>:>> http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm
>:>>
>:>> This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).
>:>
>:>Yup.  Just the red column on the left, with no text.  They
>:>didn't close the <TABLE> with a </TABLE> tag.
>:>
>:>> I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.
>:>
>:>Nope.  Blank page on Windows (Netscape) as well.  MSIE
>:>might be more lenient with incorrect HTML programming.
>:>
>Yes, this is all true. (Opera, MSIE, even IBM WebEx ;-) will display the 
>following markup, but not Netscape (any version/platform that I checked)
>
><HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Test of Netscape 4.61 Beta2</TITLE></HEAD>
><BODY bgcolor="#BBBBBB">
>
><table>
><tr>
><TD>This is the first of two lines. Do you see the second?</td>
></tr>
></table>
>
><table>
><tr>
><td>This is the second of two lines.</td>
></tr>
>
></BODY></HTML>
>
>This is a very common problem out there on the net (and getting worse) 
>how about getting together with the Netscape programmers and 
>"fixing" this.

Isn't that a bit much?  A browser is supposed to properly display
proper html coding - not fix everyones poor coding practices.  Why
not write to the webmaster and refer them to the standards?
IMHO its amazing that most broswers tolerate the amount of bad
code that they do!

 
J. Pedone
jpedone@flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~jpedone
 
Windows NT: From the makers of Windows 3.1!
Better ... stronger ... faster!

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From: jon@thets.demonic.spameater.co.uk                 29-Aug-99 15:17:09
  To: All                                               29-Aug-99 15:49:09
Subj: Win32-os/2 problem

From: "Jon Turner" <jon@thets.demonic.spameater.co.uk>

I've set up Win32-os/2 0.04 but when I try to run any pe2lx'd program,
I get the message that the system cannot find pmwinx. It's not the only
one - I can't find it either. I've RTFM'd several times, checked
everything else but no luck! The win32 driver and the MW32dd (?) driver
both load properly and everything else looks fine too. I'm using Warp4,
fp10. I've got win32-os/2 to work before but I cannot see what I'm
doing wrong this time! Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance!
Jon.

From:-	Jon Turner	www.thets.demon.co.uk
	Why shout at Windows 98? Talk to OS/2 Warp 4 instead!


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From: nobody@neuropa.net                                29-Aug-99 16:27:10
  To: All                                               29-Aug-99 16:52:17
Subj: HPFS386, The Reality...

From: Anonymous <nobody@neuropa.net>

Installing HPFS386 into a Warp v4 client makes your system FASTER!.  If
you think, this hurts IBM, think again.  The reason IBM does'nt include
HPFS386 into Warp v4 is because MS charges HUGE royalties for EACH copy
of HPFS386!.  Therefore, IBM only includes it with Warp Server.

NOTE: HPFS386 makes sense for a stand-alone OS/2 system!, that's because
Partition
Magic is not compatible with it....

Check: alt.binaries.warez.os2

IF YOU ARE AN EXISTING OS/2 WARP USER, YOU MAY IMPROVE SYSTEM FILE I/O
BY 5X TO 10X FACTOR.

NOTE:
Now, that IBM seems to be abandoning OS/2, we must play a guerilla war
strategy to fight Windows and MS.
We all KNOW that OS/2 is superior to the Windows counterpart.  We will
fight with all our resources.


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From: zz_valkyry@ibm.net_zz                             29-Aug-99 18:29:25
  To: All                                               29-Aug-99 16:52:17
Subj: what version of Aurora beta is this ?

From: zz_valkyry@ibm.net_zz (J.Wright)

what version of Aurora beta is this ?

Syslevel data;

Warp Server for e-Business
			Base Operating System
Version 9.99
Component id 5639A6150
CSD Level XR0-9999

----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Splash Screen shows in lower corner

Internal Revision 14.020F_UNI

----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
unrelated problem;
correct method to get drives object to 'see' new partition or volume 
so formatting is possible.

Thank you

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From: no_spam@please                                    30-Aug-99 00:12:18
  To: All                                               30-Aug-99 03:42:10
Subj: Re: what version of Aurora beta is this ?

From: "Juan Manuel Martnez" <no_spam@please>

On 29 Aug 1999 18:29:50 GMT, J.Wright wrote:

>Internal Revision 14.020F_UNI

That is the revision level. The final code is revision 39
Juanma Martnez
---------------------------
  TEAM OS/2


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From: rjlockie@home.com                                 29-Aug-99 23:22:11
  To: All                                               30-Aug-99 03:42:11
Subj: Re: NS461

From: rjlockie@home.com (Bob Lockie)

In message <c1.2b5.2RzyYz$08h@geocities.com> - jpedone_no_spam@flash.netSun,
29 Aug 1999 11:15:09 GMT writes:
:>
:>In <oerjrefoyhrsrngurepbz.fh6uzr0.pminews@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>,
"Bluefeather" <brewers@bluefeather.com> writes:
:>>On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:16:41 -0500, Jeffrey S. Kobal wrote:
:>>
:>>:>
:>>:>Bob Lockie wrote:
:>>:>
:>>:>> http://www.compunation.com/compunation.htm
:>>:>>
:>>:>> This is a blank page to me (I cleared my cache).
:>>:>
:>>:>Yup.  Just the red column on the left, with no text.  They
:>>:>didn't close the <TABLE> with a </TABLE> tag.
:>>:>
:>>:>> I understand it works fine in (I presume) Windows.
:>>:>
:>>:>Nope.  Blank page on Windows (Netscape) as well.  MSIE
:>>:>might be more lenient with incorrect HTML programming.
:>>:>
:>>Yes, this is all true. (Opera, MSIE, even IBM WebEx ;-) will display the 
:>>following markup, but not Netscape (any version/platform that I checked)
:>>
:>><HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Test of Netscape 4.61 Beta2</TITLE></HEAD>
:>><BODY bgcolor="#BBBBBB">
:>>
:>><table>
:>><tr>
:>><TD>This is the first of two lines. Do you see the second?</td>
:>></tr>
:>></table>
:>>
:>><table>
:>><tr>
:>><td>This is the second of two lines.</td>
:>></tr>
:>>
:>></BODY></HTML>
:>>
:>>This is a very common problem out there on the net (and getting worse) 
:>>how about getting together with the Netscape programmers and 
:>>"fixing" this.
:>
:>Isn't that a bit much?  A browser is supposed to properly display
:>proper html coding - not fix everyones poor coding practices.  Why
:>not write to the webmaster and refer them to the standards?
:>IMHO its amazing that most broswers tolerate the amount of bad
:>code that they do!
:>
:> 
:>J. Pedone
:>jpedone@flash.net
:>http://www.flash.net/~jpedone
:> 
:>Windows NT: From the makers of Windows 3.1!
:>Better ... stronger ... faster!

I have written the web master.



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From: drowelf@nospamvnet.net                            29-Aug-99 21:01:22
  To: All                                               30-Aug-99 05:29:13
Subj: Re: dos/windows/some os/2 apps won't run after changing motherboard!

From: "Eric A. Erickson" <drowelf@nospamvnet.net>

On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:21:56 +0100 (BST), Trevor Hemsley wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:32:48 GMT, luistino wrote:
>
>->I believe os2 should be re installed after a memory upgrade also.
>
>Unnecessary. I have still got the same install of OS/2 running on one of
>my machines that was originally on a 486/66 and has migrated through
>Pentiums, K6's, Cyrix and Pentium Pro processors. Never been reinstalled.
>Memeory has gone from 8Mb to 128MB. 
>
>
I agree that a re-install is unneccessary. I've got two machines that have
been 
upgrade several times of the years, with never a re-install. One has gone
AMD 586 (64Meg)  -> Pentium Pro (128Meg) -> AMD K6-III 450Mhz (256Meg)
and the other 
AMD 486 (32Meg) -> AMD K6 266 (64Meg) -> AMD K6 266 (128Meg)

Only thing installed was various fixpaks over time.
Elvish Software Foundry, Inc.    		- Internet:  drowelf@vnet.net
IBM Certified OS/2 Warp Engineer 	- IBMLink:   HONE81(ESFISA1)
IBM Certified OS2/ Warp Developer & Associate Visual Age C++ Developer
'Already where I want to be Today 	- Voice/Fax: (281)-398-2625 <-Newe'


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From: eric_bentley@hotmail.com                          30-Aug-99 15:35:17
  To: All                                               30-Aug-99 19:58:00
Subj: Driver for PCI modems with Lucent chipsets

From: Eric Bentley <eric_bentley@hotmail.com>

Hello,

I tried to post this message from dejanews last week, but I never saw it
so I assume no one else did either.

Beta 3 of the Lucent PCI modem driver for OS/2 is at hobbes:

http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/cgi-bin/h-search?key=ltm_5553.zip

This driver should work with all PCI modems with the Lucent Chipsets.
Some laptops are supported as well.  Among those are the Thinkpad 390e
and Thinkpad 570.

--
Thanks,

-Eric

//------------------------------
// Eric Bentley
// eric UNDERSCORE bentley AT iname DOT com


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From: upatoyou@ibmmail.com                              31-Aug-99 07:08:04
  To: All                                               30-Aug-99 21:34:14
Subj: Re: Warp 5 client--After all, what's in a name?

From: "DeutschMick" <upatoyou@ibmmail.com>

On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:14:37 -0400, Joseph Pacheco wrote:

>Dear fellow OS2iens,
OS/2001
      /                                       R  e  g  a  r  d  s  :
    /    -  __0      Mick Deutsch, Project Audio, Canberra, AUSTRALIA.
[@\      _  \<,_       m$tsch@pcug.org.zzz, zzzhic$@ibmmail.com 
[@/     (_) / (_)   searching for great sound!    NO DAVE!    I am not
    \                      Wind95/NT compatible, this is the 21st century!
     \

humans:  to reply, please replace the z's with au, and the currency symbol
with deu - thanks.
          
  W A R N I N G !
Created and sent using OS/2, the most advanced

  S H O R T   T E R M   S I D E - E F F E C T S  OF USING OS/2:
You may get extra work done because of OS/2s reliability.

You may derive extra pleasure you may from owning a PC
that crashes less than 3 times per week.

  L O N G E R - L A S T I N G   S I D E - E F F E C T S :
"Power User Syndrome"  YOU may decide how you use
your PC, which may annoy the BOSS, who wants you to
use Neanderthal Technology (tm) Operating System.

visit http://www.aberdeen.com/secure/onsite/case1/body.htm
to see for yourself.



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From: lesben@ptcom.net                                  01-Sep-99 00:02:00
  To: generous@phonesexings.com                         01-Sep-99 14:27:06
Subj: Re: EXTREMELY CHEAP erotic phone chat 18103

To: generous@phonesexings.com
From: Les Benn <lesben@ptcom.net>

nope don't want to talk. I would be interested in exchanging shoe laces or
crystallized
caterpillar hair.

heavens896@aol.com wrote:

> Want to talk with 100% FAKE horny girls?
>
> The women on the line are paid alot they are over 70 and in their prime.
> They call for free phone calls with guys like YOU - it's almost Free for
them!
>
> Only $1,000,000,000 per minute or less
>
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>
> =====================>1-888-302-ORGE (toll-free) - phonebill billing
available here
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> For gay talk call:1-888-800-MENS (toll-free)
>
> 8 and over only please!
>
> `zAd,"iFVW

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From: eric.brien@cgi.ca                                 01-Sep-99 13:35:05
  To: All                                               01-Sep-99 17:47:20
Subj: Backup EXEC for OS2 Warp

From: "Brien, Eric" <eric.brien@cgi.ca>

Does anyone have a link where I can get a test/Full version of Backup
exec for OS2?



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From: mckinnis@ibm.net                                  01-Sep-99 17:43:24
  To: All                                               02-Sep-99 06:34:29
Subj: Re: Backup EXEC for OS2 Warp

From: Chuck McKinnis <mckinnis@ibm.net>

My personal preference is BackAgain/2 from CDS.

http://www.cds-inc.com

"Brien, Eric" wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a link where I can get a test/Full version of Backup
> exec for OS2?

-- 
Chuck McKinnis
Senior Systems Engineer
Denver Solutions Group, Inc.
IBM Business Partner
IBM Senior Systems Engineer (retired)

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From: hpholm@post1.tele.dk                              02-Sep-99 19:32:10
  To: All                                               03-Sep-99 03:37:14
Subj: Communicator beta2 - summary (and =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E6=F8=E5?=)

From: Hans Peter Holm <hpholm@post1.tele.dk>

A few minor things.

Navigator starts with a 40 KB copy of my bookmark.htm - beta1 loaded
the page very fast, beta2 is a lot slower. Returning to the page later
in the same session is fast.

Local Danish characters ( and ) displays wrong in the bookmark
file, in javascript scrollers in the bottom of the browser, in
alternative text for pictures, in the overview window of Messenger, on
form buttons if the web author use the raw 8-bit character instead of
&oslash; etc. This is a /2 version only problem. It was reported at
the proper place when version 4.04 came out, but I haven't seen an
explanation or a status report on it. My system runs CP-850 as primary
codepage and CP-865 as secondary for some old DOS apps.

Composer and Messenger fails to add words containing the local
high-bit characters to the dictionary. AFAIR the Danish version of
4.04 worked correctly with Danish words in Composer, but failed to
recognize added words with  in Messenger.

Special characters like &mdash; / &#8212; or &rdquo; / &#8221; should
produce similar output in Navigator. &mdash and &rdquo; fails. I
haven't tried all the characters, but some web authors seem to like
the curly " and the long dash.

Newsgroups.
There's a long delay on the first startup.
Adding a new group from a server with 35.000 groups is slow.
Message | Mark - there used to be an 'As unread' option there?! (the u
hotkey still works).
I prefer a gray background color - it flickers a lot while loading a
new message (old S3 Virge no-name card).

Overall impression is fine. It crashed and rebooted the WPS a couple
of times when entering a certain newsgroup the other night. (Our
newsbofh had to restart the newsserver from scratch and the
messagecount was 20.000 wrong). Nothing in the logs and a reboot cured
it. It's really fast sampling new headers from newsgroups and it
behaves according to the usenet standards. /Please/ add support for
multipart binaries, it'll become a lot more useable in the binary
groups.

Java doesn't work for me in beta2 and the nested table bug is really
bad in http://home4.inet.tele.dk/leth/ - the maximum possible window
width seems to be less than 3.000 pixels? ;-)

The incomplete download bug is still there, but it's not reproduceable
or consistent. I had two FTP downloads running in Navigator at the
same time - one was extremely slow with just a few bytes/sec and the
other was fast with 4-5 KB/sec (V.90). The fast one closed first, but
was incomplete, and the slow one completed without errors 10 minutes
later. In most cases it will work if I leave the PC and don't touch
anything, after clicking the final OK button in the Save as box.

I like hotkeys and the local menus in mouse button 2. I miss Ctrl-y
(delete line) when composing a reply to a message.

-- 
Hans

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From: hpholm@post1.tele.dk                              03-Sep-99 00:05:14
  To: All                                               03-Sep-99 06:09:28
Subj: Re: Communicator beta2 - summary (and 

From: Hans Peter Holm <hpholm@post1.tele.dk>

lifedata@xxvol.com wrote:

> Are you familiar with the NS4OS2 mailing list?

No.

> I could post your summary there is you like.

Post it as your own if you see the same errors, or tell them you got
it from an unknown person. I'm here or in c.o.o.bugs if you need me.
:)

(Wonder what happened to my Danish letters in the Subject line - they
seem to evolve into ... something different!)

-- 
Hans
http://home1.inet.tele.dk/hpholm/

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From: lifedata@xxvol.com                                02-Sep-99 15:02:20
  To: All                                               03-Sep-99 06:09:29
Subj: Re: Communicator beta2 - summary (and =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E6_?==?iso-8859-

From: lifedata@xxvol.com

Are you familiar with the NS4OS2 mailing list?

I could post your summary there is you like.

Jim L
Remove XX from address to Email
More gun laws will cure the nations ills - just like drug laws do.


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From: chodosik@unitel.co.kr                             01-Sep-99 00:28:29
  To: All                                               03-Sep-99 19:57:18
Subj: so32dll..?

From: "cds" <chodosik@unitel.co.kr>

I'm Korean. I use OS2 WARP 4 MERLIN beta. To listen mp3 files,I download
players.
Warpamp works well in my system,but pm123 does not work.
When start it ,error message appears like below......

connot find so32dll.

What is this? Is it some kind of dll file? help me ......


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 * Origin: Usenet: Unitel and AT&T (1:109/42)

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