
                   comp.os.os2.programmer.misc      (Usenet)

                 Saturday, 25-Dec-1999 to Friday, 31-Dec-1999

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: avl1@my-deja.com                                  23-Dec-99 19:35:29
  To: All                                               26-Dec-99 03:26:28
Subj: Re: !16-bit <-> 32-bit

From: avl1@my-deja.com

Is the purpose of this app being 16 bit using 16-bit APIs?
If so you can call them from a 32-bit app. You can do this with
Watcom.

Andrei


In article <384D5895.BE9@pbn.dp.ua>,
  myself@pbn.dp.ua wrote:
> Hi !
>
> 	I need develop some 16-bit app (.DLL). This app should
work
> over standart IBM TCPIP (current version is 32-bit). Can
somebody help
> me ? May be some link or code-sample ?
> I try use Watcom C 10.6 and MSC 6.0 (Anybody can teach me
write DLL
> using MSC 6.0 (16-bit) ?)
>
> --
>
> Ivan Klimenko   [Team OS/2]
> e-mail:         myself@pbn.dp.ua
> net-mail:       2:464/69.11@fidonet, 2:464/27.26@fidonet
> ccmail:         Ivan Klimenko at Privat-Nikopol
>
>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
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From: whonea@codenet.net                                23-Dec-99 20:21:16
  To: All                                               26-Dec-99 03:26:29
Subj: Re: Debugger terminates program by PM Resource Interlock message.

From: whonea@codenet.net (Will Honea)

On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:03:50, cbzh@my-deja.com wrote:

> How much I would like another 1 or 2 fixpacks for VAC++ _3_ instead of
> abandoning it for version 4! It is now one of the most "solid"
> developing environments I know - but why do companies always bring out
> new versions with new bugs just before they managed to get a virtually
> bug-free version ready?
 
Simple: some one decided that all the developers using VACPP 3 were 
too dumb to know what they wanted so they came out with ver 4 figuring
to FORCE us to 'the right way'.  Great example of a development group 
telling the customer what the customer wanted - someone should donate 
a hearing aid to IBM so they might possibly HEAR the customers!

Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

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From: myself@pbn.dp.ua                                  24-Dec-99 20:21:14
  To: avl1@my-deja.com                                  26-Dec-99 03:27:00
Subj: Re: !16-bit <-> 32-bit

To: avl1@my-deja.com
From: Ivan Klimenko <myself@pbn.dp.ua>

Hi !

avl1@my-deja.com wrote:
> 
> Is the purpose of this app being 16 bit using 16-bit APIs?
> If so you can call them from a 32-bit app. You can do this with
> Watcom.

	How? Sample please.

> 
> Andrei
> 
> In article <384D5895.BE9@pbn.dp.ua>,
>   myself@pbn.dp.ua wrote:
> > Hi !
> >
> >       I need develop some 16-bit app (.DLL). This app should
> work
> > over standart IBM TCPIP (current version is 32-bit). Can
> somebody help
> > me ? May be some link or code-sample ?
> > I try use Watcom C 10.6 and MSC 6.0 (Anybody can teach me
> write DLL
> > using MSC 6.0 (16-bit) ?)
-- 

Ivan Klimenko   [Team OS/2]
e-mail:         myself@pbn.dp.ua
net-mail:       2:464/69.11@fidonet, 2:464/27.26@fidonet
ccmail:         Ivan Klimenko at Privat-Nikopol

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From: avl1@my-deja.com                                  25-Dec-99 04:25:25
  To: All                                               26-Dec-99 03:27:01
Subj: Re: !16-bit <-> 32-bit

From: avl1@my-deja.com

You just need to add necessary #define's. Watcom will do the
rest. Example follows, just compile it in a 32 bit app.
Good luck,
andrei

#define INCL_VIO
#include <os2.h>

void main()
{
  VioWrtTTY("This is a 16 bit API\n",20,0);
}



In article <3863F1E8.69A6@pbn.dp.ua>,
  myself@pbn.dp.ua wrote:
> Hi !
>
> avl1@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Is the purpose of this app being 16 bit using 16-bit APIs?
> > If so you can call them from a 32-bit app. You can do this
with
> > Watcom.
>
> 	How? Sample please.
>
> >



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From: jaaskela@tietomyrsky.fi                           27-Dec-99 07:40:07
  To: All                                               27-Dec-99 11:16:04
Subj: Re: Project to clone OS/2 - FreeOS

From: Vesa =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E4=E4skel=E4inen?= <jaaskela@tietomyrsky.fi>

> FreeOS - Very interesting project to make a freeware clone of OS/2,  la
> Linux.

Actually it is not choosed yet which would be base kernel or are we
going to make completly our own. Comparing different kernel styles /
kernels now.

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From: root@microsoft.com                                27-Dec-99 08:32:29
  To: All                                               27-Dec-99 11:16:04
Subj: Re: OnCMD 3 info ?

From: root@microsoft.com (Bart/2 (Bartosz Tomasik))

On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:54:25, reiknir@my-deja.com wrote:

> A friend of mine needs to move some old clipper apps to a more modern
> enviroment, does any one here have experiences with OnCmd 3 and/or
> Xbase++, that they are willing to share ?

Both products have comparable features, whatever you choose it will be
good :)
-------------------------------------------------
 Bart/2 irc:Ihsahn Bart2@teamos2.org.pl UIN:50890586
 Asu'a member    
 TeamOS/2 Polska http://www.teamos2.org.pl

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From: yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net                27-Dec-99 08:00:04
  To: All                                               27-Dec-99 14:32:16
Subj: Re: Project to clone OS/2 - FreeOS

From: yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net

In <386718A9.8D2AE00@tietomyrsky.fi>, on 12/27/99 
   at 07:40 AM, Vesa Jskelinen <jaaskela@tietomyrsky.fi> said:

>> FreeOS - Very interesting project to make a freeware clone of OS/2,  la
>> Linux.

>Actually it is not choosed yet which would be base kernel or are we going
>to make completly our own. Comparing different kernel styles / kernels
>now.

While the concept is interesting it is somewhat misguided.  To make the
project truly interesting you need to cross hardware boundaries...like
porting it to the DEC Alpha chip.  There are currently a wash of Linux/NT
only Alpha boxes flooding onto the market now that DecPaq as realized NT
is an OS which simply won't scale.  These boxes can be had for a song. 
The CPU is binarily compatible with the latest and greatest Alpha boxes
currently on the market.  You can pick up low end (200 or so mhz) for
around $2k when you shop around.  This would be porting OS/2 to a robust
architecture having a large supply of interrupts and features available to
it.

One of the things which made Linux interesting at time of creation was
that it was ported across architectures.  There were very few decent ports
of Unix to Intel chipsets at the time.  Hacking out a "freeware" port of
an OS to the same platform it currently runs on wouldn't be agreat
achievement...and will probably be branded as a Warez version by those
unfamiliar with the product.  If you jump architecture it will be obvious
to all.

Roland

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net              To Respond delete
".illegaltospam"
                            MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.52
                            For a Microsoft free univers
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: jdholt@attglobal.net                              27-Dec-99 17:02:06
  To: All                                               27-Dec-99 14:32:16
Subj: NetRexx and EPM Syntax completion

From: jdholt@attglobal.net (John Holt)


Would some kind soul point me to the instructions for adding
another language for EPM Syntax completion?

I have the file for NetRexx, but I just can not find the instructions
for what I need to do for EPM to use it.


Thanks in advance,


*****************************
John Holt

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From: fBeythien@gmx.de                                  27-Dec-99 20:13:01
  To: All                                               27-Dec-99 22:22:28
Subj: Re: NetRexx and EPM Syntax completion

From: fBeythien@gmx.de (Frank Beythien)

On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:02:13, jdholt@attglobal.net (John Holt) wrote:

> 
> 
> Would some kind soul point me to the instructions for adding
> another language for EPM Syntax completion?
> 
> I have the file for NetRexx, but I just can not find the instructions
> for what I need to do for EPM to use it.

Just enter the command with ctrl-I

toggle_parse 1 epmkwds.xxx

after loading your netrexx file.  xxx is the extension of your 
syntaxfile for netrexx.

CU/2
-- 
Frank Beythien   fBeythien@gmx.de

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From: yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net                27-Dec-99 19:30:16
  To: All                                               28-Dec-99 02:36:14
Subj: Re: ToolKit for Warp ???

From: yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net

In <O9iXPTTUtRJe-pn2-c4kZWZ45USBz@localhost>, on 12/27/99 
   at 11:50 PM, mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin) said:

Normally, if you are a DevCon subscriber, they publish the "latest"
sans-2-months of updates, on the DevCon CD-ROM when full distribution
occurs.  If you can't find it on the OS/2 sites then drop me a private
line.  I don't think there are any restrictions about passing an update to
somebody.  I'm certain one of the IBM developers hanging out here rather
than testing FP releases will chime in though.

Roland

>Any ideas on where one could get a newer version
>of the VAC Toolkit for OS/2 Warp or Aurora ??

>The FontEditor support was broken with the new
>extended Eurofont stuffs which was added in
>Warp+FP and Aurora.

>The latest Toolkit I've found is OS2TK199.ZIP.

>Better yet - any ideas on who to contact
>within IBM for updates/resource tools ?

>Somewhere there's a working FontEditor !!!

>TIA
>Mark Mellin

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net              To Respond delete
".illegaltospam"
                            MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.52
                            For a Microsoft free univers
-----------------------------------------------------------

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From: pjfloyd@my-deja.com                               28-Dec-99 08:38:03
  To: All                                               28-Dec-99 05:20:09
Subj: Re: NetRexx and EPM Syntax completion

From: pjfloyd@my-deja.com

In article <iMdyNgRgteuj-pn2-V7fCuV2ufzx2@efbe.prima.de>,
  fBeythien@gmx.de wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:02:13, jdholt@attglobal.net (John Holt) wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Would some kind soul point me to the instructions for adding
> > another language for EPM Syntax completion?
> >
> > I have the file for NetRexx, but I just can not find the
instructions
> > for what I need to do for EPM to use it.
>
> Just enter the command with ctrl-I
>
> toggle_parse 1 epmkwds.xxx
>
> after loading your netrexx file.  xxx is the extension of your
> syntaxfile for netrexx.
>
> CU/2
> --
> Frank Beythien   fBeythien@gmx.de

Hi

There are 2 distinct features available in EPM. One is
syntax colouring, the other is syntax completion. I'm afraid
Frank, you chose the wrong one (syntax colouring).

The mechanism for syntax colouring is relatively simple, using
a text template file to define the colours for keywords. You
can either manually turn on syntax colouring, or else recompile
the e macros to make it automatic for a/some file type(s) (e.g.,
.cmd files for Rexx).

To add syntax completion, you must add some new e modules.
Essentially, the principle is that the space bar and the
enter key both act as triggers, calling functions for first
and second expand. You have to write e code for all of the
keywords that you want expanded.

Syntax expansion is built in for C, Pascal and I think plain Rexx.
These are good starting points for adding a new language.

Now for me to blow my own trumpet, take a loot at this article I
wrote for EDM/2:
http://www.edm2.com/0605/epmoberon.html

(I recently made some corrections to the e macros which I haven't
submitted yet, should do it soon).

Regards
Paul

--
Paul Floyd
Is atrophy a shiny cup?


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From: veit@borneo.gmd.de                                28-Dec-99 09:00:21
  To: All                                               28-Dec-99 05:20:09
Subj: Re: Project to clone OS/2 - FreeOS

From: veit@borneo.gmd.de (Holger Veit)

On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 08:00:09 -0500, 
	yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net wrote:
[...]
>One of the things which made Linux interesting at time of creation was
>that it was ported across architectures.  There were very few decent ports

The *BSDs were cross-platform already before anyone from Linux could even
spell the word.

Holger

-- 
"Well, from what I've read, scientific studies show men tend to be better at
dealing with visual concepts, while women are better at complex linguistic
communication." - "You mean..." - "Men are from MACs, women are from VMS"
	Erwin the AI, www.userfriendly.org

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From: EvgenyPlehov@mail.ru                              28-Dec-99 17:52:16
  To: All                                               28-Dec-99 14:16:07
Subj: Watcom debugger not work on WSeB !!!!

From: Evgeny Plehov <EvgenyPlehov@mail.ru>

Watcom Debugger for OS/2 not work on WSeB !!! Exception cause in
doscall1.dll. Sybase not answer foor this bug !!!



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From: tholen@antispam.ham                               28-Dec-99 22:27:24
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 00:20:03
Subj: Re: Watcom debugger not work on WSeB !!!!

From: tholen@antispam.ham

Evgeny Plehov writes:

> Watcom Debugger for OS/2 not work on WSeB !!! Exception cause in
> doscall1.dll. Sybase not answer foor this bug !!!

Sybase has discontinued development and support for their WATCOM
compilers, and for all platforms, not just OS/2.

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From: matthew.dajia@home.com                            29-Dec-99 02:32:05
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 03:28:03
Subj: Diskspace available

From: "Matt" <matthew.dajia@home.com>

What would be the easiest way to check for free diskspace in OS/2 within a
batch file?

Thanks


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From: nospam_n.saxon@mindspring.com                     28-Dec-99 22:50:15
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 03:28:03
Subj: Re: ToolKit for Warp ???

From: "Nick Saxon" <nospam_n.saxon@mindspring.com>

On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:30:33 -0500, yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net wrote:

>In <O9iXPTTUtRJe-pn2-c4kZWZ45USBz@localhost>, on 12/27/99 
>   at 11:50 PM, mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin) said:
>
>Normally, if you are a DevCon subscriber, they publish the "latest"
>sans-2-months of updates, on the DevCon CD-ROM when full distribution
>occurs.  If you can't find it on the OS/2 sites then drop me a private
>line.  I don't think there are any restrictions about passing an update to
>somebody.  I'm certain one of the IBM developers hanging out here rather
>than testing FP releases will chime in though.
>
>Roland

If you are a DevCon subcscriber, you are allowed to download it from
IBM DevCon web site http://www.developer.ibm.com/devcon/titlepg.htm

Nick Saxon

>
>>Any ideas on where one could get a newer version
>>of the VAC Toolkit for OS/2 Warp or Aurora ??
>
>>The FontEditor support was broken with the new
>>extended Eurofont stuffs which was added in
>>Warp+FP and Aurora.
>
>>The latest Toolkit I've found is OS2TK199.ZIP.
>
>>Better yet - any ideas on who to contact
>>within IBM for updates/resource tools ?
>
>>Somewhere there's a working FontEditor !!!
>
>>TIA
>>Mark Mellin
>
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>yyyc186.illegaltospam@flashcom.net              To Respond delete
".illegaltospam"
>                            MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.52
>                            For a Microsoft free univers
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>



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From: timurkz@saxz.mmbankz.ruz                          29-Dec-99 07:16:16
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 03:28:03
Subj: Re: Diskspace available

From: "Timur Kazimirov" <timurkz@saxz.mmbankz.ruz>

On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 02:32:10 GMT, Matt wrote:

>What would be the easiest way to check for free diskspace in OS/2 within a
>batch file?

dir | tail -1

With best regards,
Timur Kazimirov

-- Remove all "z" from my address to reply



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From: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygon...               29-Dec-99 00:51:14
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 03:28:04
Subj: Re: Diskspace available

Message sender: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net

From: "Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net>

On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 02:32:10 GMT, Matt wrote:

>What would be the easiest way to check for free diskspace in OS/2 within a
>batch file?

The simplest solution is to use this REXX script:

/* Return free space of specified drive */
call RxFuncAdd 'SysLoadFuncs','RexxUtil','SysLoadFuncs'
call SysLoadFuncs

parse arg dstring

check=SysDriveInfo(dstring)

if check='' then exit 1
else do
    dfree=word(check,2)
    dlet=left(dstring,1)
    evar=translate('drive'||dlet||'_free_space')
    call value evar,dfree,'os2environment'
    say dfree
    exit 0
end
/* end */

The above returns 0 if the free space was successfully determined, 1
otherwise.  The free space itself is printed to standard output, and assigned
to the environment variable DRIVEX_FREE_SPACE, where X is the drive letter.

Of course, there's no way to check this in the batch file, unless you're
using an enhanced command interpreter, such as 4OS2.  It'd be better all
around to use REXX for everything.


--
 - Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.


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From: pfitzsim@NOSPAMBASTARDS!home.com                  29-Dec-99 07:03:26
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 03:28:04
Subj: Re: Watcom debugger not work on WSeB !!!!

From: Peter Fitzsimons <pfitzsim@NOSPAMBASTARDS!home.com>

Evgeny Plehov wrote:
> 
> Watcom Debugger for OS/2 not work on WSeB !!! Exception cause in
> doscall1.dll. Sybase not answer foor this bug !!!

they've known about this for sometime.

Even though they discontinued the product, apparently a fixpak (11.0c)
will be released.  Let's hope this is one of the problems it fixes.

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From: mmellin@home.com                                  29-Dec-99 08:42:02
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 05:08:07
Subj: Re: ToolKit for Warp ???

From: mmellin@home.com (Mark Mellin)

Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber, the existing
"guest" login will let me DL OS2TK199, but the included
font editor was updated prior to the newer Euro extended
fonts distributed with Warp FP11+? and Aurora so it
crashes when working with the new font formats.

Any ideas who I could contact to obtain an updated
version of either the ToolKit -or- just the FontEditor ??

Mark


On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 03:50:31, "Nick Saxon" <nospam_n.saxon@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

> If you are a DevCon subcscriber, you are allowed to download it from
> IBM DevCon web site http://www.developer.ibm.com/devcon/titlepg.htm
> 
> Nick Saxon
> 
> >
> >>Any ideas on where one could get a newer version
> >>of the VAC Toolkit for OS/2 Warp or Aurora ??
> >
> >>The FontEditor support was broken with the new
> >>extended Eurofont stuffs which was added in
> >>Warp+FP and Aurora.
> >
> >>The latest Toolkit I've found is OS2TK199.ZIP.
> >
> >>Better yet - any ideas on who to contact
> >>within IBM for updates/resource tools ?
> >
> >>Somewhere there's a working FontEditor !!!

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From: fBeythien@gmx.de                                  29-Dec-99 11:58:21
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 10:21:28
Subj: Re: NetRexx and EPM Syntax completion

From: fBeythien@gmx.de (Frank Beythien)

On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:38:07, pjfloyd@my-deja.com wrote:

> In article <iMdyNgRgteuj-pn2-V7fCuV2ufzx2@efbe.prima.de>,
>   fBeythien@gmx.de wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:02:13, jdholt@attglobal.net (John Holt) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Would some kind soul point me to the instructions for adding
> > > another language for EPM Syntax completion?
> > >
> > > I have the file for NetRexx, but I just can not find the
> instructions
> > > for what I need to do for EPM to use it.
> >
> > Just enter the command with ctrl-I
> >
> > toggle_parse 1 epmkwds.xxx
> >
> > after loading your netrexx file.  xxx is the extension of your
> > syntaxfile for netrexx.
> >
> > CU/2
> > --
> > Frank Beythien   fBeythien@gmx.de
> 
> Hi
> 
> There are 2 distinct features available in EPM. One is
> syntax colouring, the other is syntax completion. I'm afraid
> Frank, you chose the wrong one (syntax colouring).

Hi,
thanks for the correction, but John wrote he had the netrexx file so I
did not assume he ment the new xx.e code but the epmwkds.xxx.   

CU/2
-- 
Frank Beythien   fBeythien@gmx.de

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From: mike.luther@ziplog.com                            29-Dec-99 15:36:08
  To: All                                               29-Dec-99 14:23:18
Subj: Re: Watcom debugger not work on WSeB !!!!

From: mike.luther@ziplog.com

In <tnia4.26083$ZT5.6521441@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com>, Peter Fitzsimons
<pfitzsim@NOSPAMBASTARDS!home.com> writes:
>Evgeny Plehov wrote:
>> 
>> Watcom Debugger for OS/2 not work on WSeB !!! Exception cause in
>> doscall1.dll. Sybase not answer foor this bug !!!
>
>they've known about this for sometime.
>
>Even though they discontinued the product, apparently a fixpak (11.0c)
>will be released.  Let's hope this is one of the problems it fixes.


Interesting.   I haven't looked prior to posting this.  I got the 'last'
version that surfaced for the shipping fees, I think it was 11.0b.  So
what you say is that there may yet be another 'last' fix for us in OS/2!

You're obviously closer to this than some of us.

Would you be so kind as to post an alert here when this new animal pops
it's nose up out of the den?

    Thanks!

--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike.Luther@ziplog.com
Mike.Luther@f3000.n117.z1.fidonet.org

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From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk                        30-Dec-99 01:39:08
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 03:28:09
Subj: Installable File Systems

From: jpolt@bradnet.legend.co.uk (John Poltorak)

I'm collating some inormation on Installable File System and would be
interested in any uncommon FS's that anyone has come across...

In particularly I'd be interested in anything about AFS (Andrew File System)
or DFS (Distributed File System).

I don't suppose anyone has ever written a Tape File System...

--
John

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From: s.schwarzer@ndh.net                               30-Dec-99 03:11:29
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 03:28:09
Subj: Re: Watcom debugger not work on WSeB !!!!

From: Stefan Schwarzer <s.schwarzer@ndh.net>

Hello Mike,

mike.luther@ziplog.com schrieb:
> Interesting.   I haven't looked prior to posting this.  I got the 'last'
> version that surfaced for the shipping fees, I think it was 11.0b.  So
> what you say is that there may yet be another 'last' fix for us in OS/2!
> 
> You're obviously closer to this than some of us.
> 
> Would you be so kind as to post an alert here when this new animal pops
> it's nose up out of the den?

I think, relevant news on a Watcom Fix will be posted on
news://forums.sybase.com/powersoft.public.watcom_c_c++.general .

(Warning: Since they appear to never have let any postings expired,
be prepared to download up to 14200 headers ;-) .)

Stefan

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From: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygon...               29-Dec-99 23:43:16
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 03:28:09
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

Message sender: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net

From: "Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net>

On 30 Dec 1999 01:39:16 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:

>I'm collating some inormation on Installable File System and would be
>interested in any uncommon FS's that anyone has come across...
>
>In particularly I'd be interested in anything about AFS (Andrew File System)
>or DFS (Distributed File System).

You might try looking into TVFS (Toronto Virtual File System), and EXT2-FS,
for reading Linux drives.

>I don't suppose anyone has ever written a Tape File System...

That wouldn't work very well at all.  A tape device would spend all day
winding tape if accessed as a file system.  To be at all practical, access
must be serialized on a large scale (i.e. complete operations, not just
partial reads).  Basically, you'd need to have a FS that doesn't function
unless the drive is locked.  It would make backup software a bit easier to
write, but that's about it.  Normal file system commands wouldn't be
appropriate.


--
 - Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.


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From: jmandres@carbon.icb.csic.es                       30-Dec-99 09:57:07
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 06:31:09
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

From: jmandres <jmandres@carbon.icb.csic.es>

Mike Ruskai escribi:

> On 30 Dec 1999 01:39:16 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:
>
> >I'm collating some inormation on Installable File System and would be
> >interested in any uncommon FS's that anyone has come across...
> >
> >In particularly I'd be interested in anything about AFS (Andrew File
System)
> >or DFS (Distributed File System).
>
> You might try looking into TVFS (Toronto Virtual File System), and EXT2-FS,
> for reading Linux drives.
>
> >I don't suppose anyone has ever written a Tape File System...
>
> That wouldn't work very well at all.  A tape device would spend all day
> winding tape if accessed as a file system.  To be at all practical, access
> must be serialized on a large scale (i.e. complete operations, not just
> partial reads).  Basically, you'd need to have a FS that doesn't function
> unless the drive is locked.  It would make backup software a bit easier to
> write, but that's about it.  Normal file system commands wouldn't be
> appropriate.
>
> --
>  - Mike
>
> Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.

About the tape IFS, I don't agree. There are several examples in Win9x or NT,
even in DOS (DATMAN is one for DOS or Win9x, Columbia Data Products can do de
same with NT) that allow the use of a tape as a slow disk. Of course this is
not
for continuous use, but can be useful for storing those web downloads or old
archives before deciding to keep  or to discard. In addition, SCSI DAT tapes
are
relatively fast.
Just wishing a knowledgeable programmer decides to do that.

--
Jos Manuel Andrs
Instituto de Carboqumica, CSIC
Mara de Luna 12
50015 - Zaragoza
ESPAA / SPAIN
jmandres@carbon.icb.csic.es or jmandres@tornado.icb.csic.es


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From: pfitzsim@NOSPAMBASTARDS!home.com                  30-Dec-99 11:35:06
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 10:25:03
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

From: Peter Fitzsimons <pfitzsim@NOSPAMBASTARDS!home.com>

Mike Ruskai wrote:
> 
> On 30 Dec 1999 01:39:16 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:
> 
> >I'm collating some inormation on Installable File System and would be
> >interested in any uncommon FS's that anyone has come across...
> >
> >In particularly I'd be interested in anything about AFS (Andrew File
System)
> >or DFS (Distributed File System).
> 
> You might try looking into TVFS (Toronto Virtual File System), and EXT2-FS,
> for reading Linux drives.
> 
> >I don't suppose anyone has ever written a Tape File System...
> 
> That wouldn't work very well at all.  A tape device would spend all day

I tape IFS similar to RSJ's cdr IFS would work well (where data is
cached on the hard disk).

A friend and I had the idea many years ago; he went on to write
"fastback for os/2", which the vendor abandoned shortly after release,
and killed both of our motivation.

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From: rexxdev@uni-one.nl                                30-Dec-99 14:47:17
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 16:33:21
Subj: WAV

From: rexxdev@uni-one.nl (REXX Dev)

Using C & MCI, I could play a *.WAV-file from my REXX DLL, which
could be eigther interrupted by the user, or could be completed.
I implemented this for simple (application) usage instructions.
Nothing fancy: just about OPEN, PLAY & CLOSE...

AFAICS, this was working with Warp 3, FP17 or so. Since Warp 4,
(only checked with FP9), this doesn't work anymore. This may be
caused by changes in MMPM-related stuff; I don't know that.

Anyway, I'm back where I once started: how can I play a *.WAV-
file from within an OS/2 REXX DLL, in the safest possible way?

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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com                              30-Dec-99 20:45:11
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 19:59:11
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com (Brad Benson)

"Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net> wrote:
] That wouldn't work very well at all.  A tape device would spend all day
] winding tape if accessed as a file system.  To be at all practical, access
] must be serialized on a large scale (i.e. complete operations, not just
] partial reads).  Basically, you'd need to have a FS that doesn't function
] unless the drive is locked.  It would make backup software a bit easier to
] write, but that's about it.  Normal file system commands wouldn't be
] appropriate.

It could be done, and on a device with a relatively fast seek time, it
might even be practical for some applications.  I looked into this a
few years ago and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be terribly
difficult to do but would be a major project.  The big headache is the
16-bit driver model and lack of modern development tools, although
ICAT is available now whereas it wasn't then.  

There are products like that available for DOS and Win95/98, but after
talking with them we concluded there wouldn't be a viable market for
it, on either OS/2 or Win9x.  

As you alluded to, the idea definately has drawbacks :
  - Definately slower than DASD.
  - Definately more expensive (how much does a 2GB DAT cost?  how much does a
2GB Jaz cost?)
  - Definately a miniscule market (how many users have tape drives?  Out of
those, how many have DAT?)


Cheers,

Brad
replace "spamtrap" with "benson" in my reply address

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From: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygon...               30-Dec-99 16:17:28
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

Message sender: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net

From: "Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net>

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:57:15 +0100, jmandres wrote:

>Mike Ruskai escribi:
>
>> On 30 Dec 1999 01:39:16 GMT, John Poltorak wrote:
>>
>> >I'm collating some inormation on Installable File System and would be
>> >interested in any uncommon FS's that anyone has come across...
>> >
>> >In particularly I'd be interested in anything about AFS (Andrew File
System)
>> >or DFS (Distributed File System).
>>
>> You might try looking into TVFS (Toronto Virtual File System), and EXT2-FS,
>> for reading Linux drives.
>>
>> >I don't suppose anyone has ever written a Tape File System...
>>
>> That wouldn't work very well at all.  A tape device would spend all day
>> winding tape if accessed as a file system.  To be at all practical, access
>> must be serialized on a large scale (i.e. complete operations, not just
>> partial reads).  Basically, you'd need to have a FS that doesn't function
>> unless the drive is locked.  It would make backup software a bit easier to
>> write, but that's about it.  Normal file system commands wouldn't be
>> appropriate.

>About the tape IFS, I don't agree. There are several examples in Win9x or NT,
>even in DOS (DATMAN is one for DOS or Win9x, Columbia Data Products can do de
>same with NT) that allow the use of a tape as a slow disk. Of course this is
not
>for continuous use, but can be useful for storing those web downloads or old
>archives before deciding to keep  or to discard. In addition, SCSI DAT tapes
are
>relatively fast.
>Just wishing a knowledgeable programmer decides to do that.

What happens if you access the "slow disk" from two different programs?  

1)  It becomes unusable, for all practical intents and purposes.

2)  You can't access from more than one program at a time, which satisfies
the requirements I laid out.

DAT drives are fast in data transfer rate, primarily because of how the
data is written (in diagonal lines, increasing the length of the data area
under the head for a given linear tape velocity).  They are not faster in
moving the tape, by any significant measure.

What Peter mentioned sounds like a reasonable approach, but I'd still
question the usefulness.


--
 - Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.


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From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com                              30-Dec-99 22:13:23
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

From: spamtrap@cds-inc.com (Brad Benson)

"Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net> wrote:

] 
] What happens if you access the "slow disk" from two different programs? =
]  
] 
] 1)  It becomes unusable, for all practical intents and purposes.
] 
] 2)  You can't access from more than one program at a time, which satisfi=
] es
] the requirements I laid out.
] 
] DAT drives are fast in data transfer rate, primarily because of how the
] data is written (in diagonal lines, increasing the length of the data ar=
] ea
] under the head for a given linear tape velocity).  They are not faster i=
] n
] moving the tape, by any significant measure.

Actually, they are significantly faster  in moving the tape.   An old
DDS-1 unit that can't do more than about 12MB minute raw transfer rate
still has a seek time several times faster than an NS20, which has a
raw transfer rate of over 60MB/min.


Cheers,

Brad
replace "spamtrap" with "benson" in my reply address

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From: rde@tavi.co.uk                                    30-Dec-99 23:04:21
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 19:59:12
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

From: rde@tavi.co.uk (Bob Eager)

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 04:43:33, "Mike Ruskai" 
<retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net> wrote:

> >I don't suppose anyone has ever written a Tape File System...
> 
> That wouldn't work very well at all.  A tape device would spend all day
> winding tape if accessed as a file system.

I've used (years ago) systems that did exactly that. I once set up a 
PDP-11 (16 bit machine) with operating system and swap area (process 
roll-out really) on one drive and user files on the other. Each tape 
had 360KB capacity and and end to end time of about 90 seconds AFAIR.

The trick is directory caching, free block list caching, general 
caching (of course) and a careful on-media file system layout.

I'm not pretending it was fast. But for some systems it's fine. The 
tapes I used were individually block-addressable at the hardware 
level...

-- 
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..

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From: timurkz@saxz.mmbankz.ruz                          31-Dec-99 03:04:05
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 21:20:00
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

From: "Timur Kazimirov" <timurkz@saxz.mmbankz.ruz>

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:35:12 GMT, Peter Fitzsimons wrote:

>I tape IFS similar to RSJ's cdr IFS would work well (where data is
>cached on the hard disk).

I agree. The speed of access depends from the directory/file index
table (with offsets on the tape). If there will be a such good table
stored in memory after first access and there will be a mechanizm
to update this table in memory, caching accessed files and
periodically update one at the beginning, I see no reason why this
FS won't work.

Some years ago we have used a tape backup program for Novell
NeWare (I forgot it's name). This program allowed to mount a tape
as an usual NeWare volume, so dirs/files on tape could be
accessed from any program. Of course, it was slow for the first time

With best regards,
Timur Kazimirov

-- Remove all "z" from my address to reply



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From: sjhowe@dial.pipex.com                             30-Dec-99 23:42:03
  To: All                                               30-Dec-99 21:20:01
Subj: Re: Watcom debugger not work on WSeB !!!!

From: "Stephen Howe" <sjhowe@dial.pipex.com>

>>
Interesting.   I haven't looked prior to posting this.  I got the 'last'
version that surfaced for the shipping fees, I think it was 11.0b.  So
what you say is that there may yet be another 'last' fix for us in OS/2!
>>

Yes, definitely.

I do not work with OS/2 but if you make sure you post messages to the Watcom
C/C++ newsgroup (and you have to explicitly log into forums.sybase.com as
the news server does _not_ accept external news feeds like Deja) then I
shall do something about it.

Stephen Howe [Team Sybase]


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From: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygon...               31-Dec-99 15:44:09
  To: All                                               31-Dec-99 16:54:16
Subj: Re: Installable File Systems

Message sender: retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net

From: "Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net>

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:13:46 GMT, Brad Benson wrote:

>"Mike Ruskai" <retsiemynnaht@spammoc.beoohaygone.net> wrote:
>
>] 
>] What happens if you access the "slow disk" from two different programs? =
>]  
>] 
>] 1)  It becomes unusable, for all practical intents and purposes.
>] 
>] 2)  You can't access from more than one program at a time, which satisfi=
>] es
>] the requirements I laid out.
>] 
>] DAT drives are fast in data transfer rate, primarily because of how the
>] data is written (in diagonal lines, increasing the length of the data ar=
>] ea
>] under the head for a given linear tape velocity).  They are not faster i=
>] n
>] moving the tape, by any significant measure.
>
>Actually, they are significantly faster  in moving the tape.   An old
>DDS-1 unit that can't do more than about 12MB minute raw transfer rate
>still has a seek time several times faster than an NS20, which has a
>raw transfer rate of over 60MB/min.

That's significant for when you're waiting on a tape rewind during a
restore session, but it's hardly significant when talking about a
direct-access file system.  

Tapes simply aren't direct access devices, and any file system you create
for one will have to take this into account, by serializing operations on
a large scale.  The type of FS mentioned by Peter Fitzimmons, which used a
hard drive for cache, is about the only practical solution.  

That doesn't sound like what the person who first mentioned the idea of a
tape file system had in mind.


--
 - Mike

Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.


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